PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Nondetection dispute



Jergmo
2010-07-05, 11:10 AM
So, Playgrounders, I'm playing a Beguiler, so this dispute is rather important to me. Can Nondetection negate the effects of True Seeing, so long as the opposing spellcaster doesn't make the DC 15+caster level check? :smallconfused:

It may not help with other things, but it'd be nice to keep Mirror Image and Displacement.

Ashiel
2010-07-05, 11:20 AM
So, Playgrounders, I'm playing a Beguiler, so this dispute is rather important to me. Can Nondetection negate the effects of True Seeing, so long as the opposing spellcaster doesn't make the DC 15+caster level check? :smallconfused:

It may not help with other things, but it'd be nice to keep Mirror Image and Displacement.

As far as my reading of it, yes, it should prevent it. It blocks divination spells that the target would be subject to.

Alternative, the Invisible Spell meta-magic feat + fog cloud or similar effect can royally screw over someone with True Seeing. :smalltongue:

Douglas
2010-07-05, 11:28 AM
This is a pretty hotly debated subject, at times. Personally, I think the list of examples makes it clear that the intent is to block scrying, locate, and detect-type spells - the kind of things useful for tracking people down, observing them remotely, and determining their thoughts/alignment/magic items/etc. Making invisibility harder to beat is (imo) not on the list.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-07-05, 11:38 AM
This is a pretty hotly debated subject, at times. Personally, I think the list of examples makes it clear that the intent is to block scrying, locate, and detect-type spells - the kind of things useful for tracking people down, observing them remotely, and determining their thoughts/alignment/magic items/etc. Making invisibility harder to beat is (imo) not on the list.

I agree with douglas, if it meant all divination it be easier to say all divination. That said it is in the end up to your DM.

Consider the shadow weave magic feat, followed by the Insidious Magic feat. That would protect your spells from being revealed by a divination.

Curmudgeon
2010-07-05, 11:41 AM
Nondetection should have a chance to foil True Seeing and See Invisibility, because these are divination spells that detect, visually.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-07-05, 11:59 AM
Nondetection should have a chance to foil True Seeing and See Invisibility, because these are divination spells that detect, visually.

Except they don't detect you in the same way, detect evil or scrying do. See invisibility and true seeing don't detect you they simply remove the magic your using to conceal yourself from the equation.

Prodan
2010-07-05, 12:01 PM
Nondetection should have a chance to foil True Seeing and See Invisibility, because these are divination spells that detect, visually.Disagreed.

Jergmo
2010-07-05, 12:39 PM
I agree with douglas, if it meant all divination it be easier to say all divination. That said it is in the end up to your DM.

Consider the shadow weave magic feat, followed by the Insidious Magic feat. That would protect your spells from being revealed by a divination.

*Glee* Thank you, I'm going to have to grab these feats. :smallbiggrin: Screw Spell Focus(Enchantment), Shadow Weave Magic coming through. The question is, then, wait two levels for Insidious Magic, or give up the ability to have mind-affecting spells affect intelligent undead for the same...

Curmudgeon
2010-07-05, 12:52 PM
Except they don't detect you in the same way, detect evil or scrying do. See invisibility and true seeing don't detect you they simply remove the magic your using to conceal yourself from the equation. I can't agree with that, because that's not in the description for what the divination school does. Divination spells don't remove anything; that would be either abjuration (like Dispel Magic) or evocation (like Invisibility Purge). Divination spells detect things.

Claudius Maximus
2010-07-05, 12:55 PM
There's a class in PGtF called Shadow Adept that gives all three advanced shadow weave feats with a dip. You might want to look into that.

Jergmo
2010-07-05, 01:06 PM
There's a class in PGtF called Shadow Adept that gives all three advanced shadow weave feats with a dip. You might want to look into that.

Only classes from Core and the Complete series are allowed, sadly - only feats from everywhere.