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View Full Version : Skill points - how many should you get? (Not a "help me understand the rules" thread)



Heliomance
2010-07-05, 02:26 PM
I'm working on a campaign setting at the moment. Modern day, mostly D&D rules though I will crib a few from d20 Modern, like the wealth system. Currently I'm thinking I'm going to give everyone two extra skill points, to reflect both the fact that modern day people are better educated and that I'm adding several skills. Is this a sensible amount?

I may also make cross-class ranks only cost one skill point, as if everyone had the Able Learner feat, haven't decided yet. One thing I'm almost certainly going to do, though, is let people add class skills by backstory. If someone can come up with a good reason why their character would know a certain skill, I'll let them take it as a class skill.

Philistine
2010-07-05, 03:04 PM
If anything, I'd go higher. Especially if you're further expanding 3E's already bloated skill list.

Eldariel
2010-07-05, 03:12 PM
In normal D&D, I give 6 extra to every class on every level (and 4x6 on first level, obv). It's barely adequate. With any expansion, I'd go 8+.

Heliomance
2010-07-05, 05:17 PM
6 more? O_o
What on earth is a wizard with 20 int supposed to spend his 13 points per level on? He doesn't have 13 class skills!

That seems somewhat excessive to me, and skillmonkey is my favourite archetype. Surely giving everyone 6 extra is getting to the point where the differences between the classes are rather overshadowed by the sheer number they all get. The rogue doesn't excel at skills because everyone has masses.

Saya
2010-07-05, 05:18 PM
What's a wizard going to do with 13 pts more per level? Get more languages : D

Zovc
2010-07-05, 05:23 PM
6 more? O_o
What on earth is a wizard with 20 int supposed to spend his 13 points per level on? He doesn't have 13 class skills!

That seems somewhat excessive to me, and skillmonkey is my favourite archetype. Surely giving everyone 6 extra is getting to the point where the differences between the classes are rather overshadowed by the sheer number they all get. The rogue doesn't excel at skills because everyone has masses.

Any Craft skill or any Knowledge skill, if he really has to.

Before expanding the number of skills avaliable, I would see if the functions you want to add fit into already established skills. Before that, I would probably consolidate skills, too.

Zaq
2010-07-05, 05:25 PM
I have, in the past, given everyone one free "flavor" skill point per level (time 4 at level 1) that must be spent on something fluffy. Speak Language, Craft, and Profession were auto-okayed, and others were allowed on a case-by-case basis (a rogue asking for Move Silently probably wouldn't get it, but I gave it to an Ardent who happened to be a mime). I would think that giving all or most classes 2 bonus skills per level, plus one "flavor" skill, would be sufficient. Maybe bump the exact number up or down a little (rogues might get +4 instead of +2 just to keep them competitive, and a wizard might not need any, but that depends on your players).

Eldariel
2010-07-05, 05:26 PM
6 more? O_o
What on earth is a wizard with 20 int supposed to spend his 13 points per level on? He doesn't have 13 class skills!

That seems somewhat excessive to me, and skillmonkey is my favourite archetype. Surely giving everyone 6 extra is getting to the point where the differences between the classes are rather overshadowed by the sheer number they all get. The rogue doesn't excel at skills because everyone has masses.

Rogue excels at skills because of his skill list, not because of his points. In fact, Rogue barely has enough points to start with if he has 20 Int and Nymph's Kiss to max out what you'd expect a Thief to excel at, let alone a heroic archetype.

Wizard has plenty of class skills; Knowledges alone have 10. There's an infinite number of Crafts and Professions, and then there are any cross-class pursuits he may be interested in, nevermind skill tricks. I also give everyone Spot & Listen in class 'cause honestly, I can see some classes being better than others in those but I can't see anyone not developing at all in observational capabilities over the levels. Further, I expand weaker classes' lists a lot and make it possible to be social in most classes.


With 6-8 points, it's now possible to buy the Crafts, Performs and Professions for characters interested. Also, all characters generally have enough points to take their class-specific Knowledges and place some points in the physical skills (Elven Wizards from woodlands elfhames are fairly good Climbers due to what they've done for the first 100 years of their lives regardless of what their class skills and attributes state; they should also have a decent balance - and I wouldn't be surprised if a Human that intelligent took up Forgery or Appraise, for example). Or maybe someone happens to be a sailor. Point being, this is far less restrictive and characters can actually have all the skills you envision them having.

Also, the difference between 6 base and 8 base might not seem like much, but is still notable. In the LMG I'm writing a journal on, the character my friend is playing, a Rogue, still covers a notably larger number of grounds than my Ranger.

Curmudgeon
2010-07-06, 03:48 AM
Inflating skill access is going to benefit those classes with fewer skill points tremendously (doubling the points and reducing the cost for most skills because they're cross-class for the typical Wizard or Fighter) and not much for skill-rich classes (typical Rogues receiving less than a 25% gain in points, and having very few cross-class skills to become lower cost). So your plan will greatly increase the power of Wizards, and make classes that have most of their class power in skills (Rogues, Scouts) suffer in comparison.

Really poor idea, if you ask me. If you want to maintain the relative merits of skill access, I suggest something like the following:

boost base skill points by 50% (so 3 + INT mod for Wizards, and 12 + INT mod for Rogues)
add class skills equal to their base skill number (3 more class skills for Wizards, and 12 for Rogues), chosen by the player
keep the cross-class maximum in place

PId6
2010-07-06, 03:59 AM
add class skills equal to their base skill number (3 more class skills for Wizards, and 12 for Rogues), chosen by the player
So... everybody has UMD?

742
2010-07-06, 04:02 AM
just double skill points, makes everything shiny.

Curmudgeon
2010-07-06, 04:11 AM
So... everybody has UMD?
If they want it, yes. Otherwise we'll have a plague of Monks with partially-charged wands descend upon us. :smalleek: