4th Ed Firebender Class (PEACH)

[Surrealistik]

First, please note that this is a definite work in progress. I'm looking for input, suggestions and feedback to help me keep the class balanced, thematic and innovative as I go along. What I've got so far is viewable here:

https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1LenK1BAvZXP2omjFbZOUCW3azEdpLLJQsjoG5vgzU _M&hl=en&authkey=CJGHl4oD#

In particular, as someone relatively new to 4ed, I would like balance orientated feedback, especially with regards to the pricing of Bending enhancements.

What I'm going for is a highly modular type of Firebender that combines various At-Will and Utility 'seed' powers to produce various kinds of effects. This is achieved by using comparatively few basic powers that can be mixed and matched as needed. The Firebender's power is limited by Firebending points, which cannot be expended in a number greater than the user's number of Firebending levels per round.


As I've taken a great deal of inspiration from the following homebrew, I must acknowledge and credit it:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16920521/Avatar-the-Last-Airbender-A-Guide-to-Playing-Elemental-Heroes-in-Dungeons-and-Dragons-4th-Edition

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Sorry I can't wright much, I'm typting on my iPod which is a real pain.
All I can say right now is that firebending points are a bad idea.
Back later with a real keyboard and screen.

[Ihouji]

All I can say right now is that firebending points are a bad idea. Back later with a real keyboard and screen.

I can't see why it seems like a natural extension of the psionic system. you're basiclly just making a pyro-kenetic class.

If anything I would just adjust it to be more like a psionic class as to prevent confusion. That way you and your players already know the system, and you're not doing more work than you have to just reflavoring and coming up with your powers. I always avoid making a new system when possible; it tends to doom a class to not be played because no one knows the obscure rules that it follows.

If you want it to be more flexible you could even consider sprinkling in some full discipline monk style moves to spice up the martial arts aspect.

Perhaps split the class like ranger is into a ranged or melee striker one focusing on fire spell like abilities, and the other on martial arts style melee as the monk but with some close burst fire abilities and single target strikes doing fire damage.

EDIT: elaborated

[Surrealistik]

I can't see why it seems like a natural extension of the psionic system. you're basiclly just making a pyro-kenetic class.

If anything I would just adjust it to be more like a psionic class as to prevent confusion. That way you and your players already know the system, and you're not doing more work than you have to just reflavoring and coming up with your powers. I always avoid making a new system when possible; it tends to doom a class to not be played because no one knows the obscure rules that it follows.

If you want it to be more flexible you could even consider sprinkling in some full discipline monk style moves to spice up the martial arts aspect.

Perhaps split the class like ranger is into a ranged or melee striker one focusing on fire spell like abilities, and the other on martial arts style melee as the monk but with some close burst fire abilities and single target strikes doing fire damage.

EDIT: elaborated

I appreciate the suggestion, and I had considered doing almost exactly that prior to my current approach. Ultimately though, I decided it just wasn't what I was going for, wanting something far more fluid and adaptable.

That said I agree that there should be martial arts orientated options; I've accounted for this by changing the Fireblast's At-Will to count as a basic melee attack at the user's option, which can then be altered in all sorts of different ways via the utility powers.

[Ihouji]

Well then my recommendations are:

1. Make fire blast a 1d8 if not 1d6 all other 1st level d10 abilities are just 1d10 damage and nothing else and the ability to do 2d10 at 1st lvl on an at will is way too strong.

2. Revise the wording on wreath of fire, as is it looks like it affects allies with the aura as well and enemies.

3. Cut down on some of the 1st lvl utilities consider putting them in later as abilities you can choose from. Eight 1st lvl utilities give a 1st lvl character of this class way more flexibility than any other class.

4. The child of the sun power for raging fire benders is too strong, it should not affect on a miss. The only abilities that affect on a miss are dailies and you are giving them that on every attack they make during the day so long as they are outside.The child of the sun power for harmonious is probably under powered; honestly I would consider just scraping the whole child of the sun class trait, or at least adjust it to half rounded down.

Edit: Just an after thought, you are really going to have to watch balance on this class. I already see a half elf raging fire bender causing all manner of balance issues.

[Surrealistik]

Well then my recommendations are:

1. Make fire blast a 1d8 if not 1d6 all other 1st level d10 abilities are just 1d10 damage and nothing else and the ability to do 2d10 at 1st lvl on an at will is way too strong.

Well Acid Orb is a pretty good example of a relatively diverse 1st level 1d10 ability, with a Range of 20 and the ability to use it as a basic ranged attack. Considering that, and the fact that a higher power Fire Blast requires consumption of Firebending points, do you still think its damage dice should be downgraded? Maybe the enhancement cost should be increased instead?


2. Revise the wording on wreath of fire, as is it looks like it affects allies with the aura as well and enemies.

It does. Harmonious path bending can reduce the impact on allies. It should be noted that I'm still tinkering with what this should really do, and what it should be.


3. Cut down on some of the 1st lvl utilities consider putting them in later as abilities you can choose from. Eight 1st lvl utilities give a 1st lvl character of this class way more flexibility than any other class.

You only gain access to the Fire Blast power and a single Utility Power of your choice. All other utility powers must be selected as you level as specified under the Firebending class trait.


4. The child of the sun power for raging fire benders is too strong, it should not affect on a miss. The only abilities that affect on a miss are dailies and you are giving them that on every attack they make during the day so long as they are outside.The child of the sun power for harmonious is probably under powered; honestly I would consider just scraping the whole child of the sun class trait, or at least adjust it to half rounded down.


I've revised Child of the Sun so it grants a bonus to Raging Firebenders, granting them a bonus to their Font of Flames point total equal to their Consitution modifier divided by 3, rounded up at the beginning of each encounter.


Edit: Just an after thought, you are really going to have to watch balance on this class. I already see a half elf raging fire bender causing all manner of balance issues.

For sure, that's exactly why I am prioritizing balance related feedback.

Thanks for the input; I've no doubt I'm going to need a lot in order to perfect the class given the concept.

[Ihouji]

Well Acid Orb is a pretty good example of a relatively diverse 1st level 1d10 ability, with a Range of 20 and the ability to use it as a basic ranged attack. Considering that, and the fact that a higher power Fire Blast requires consumption of Firebending points, do you still think its damage dice should be downgraded? Maybe the enhancement cost should be increased instead?

Maybe leave it at a d10 and lower the additional damage to a d6 and or make it 2 points for a d8.

2d10 just seems way too strong for a level 1 and because of the way the point system works people are going to be firing it off augmented 3-5 times an encounter at least.

I think its just too easy to get the points to be honest. and suspending a move action on a harmonious would allow them to pop it off augmented every turn. Thats why I was suggesting moving it more toward psionics, they have set points.

It just seems like the classes power stay the same as the fight goes on. While as every other class gets weaker as they expend encounter powers and drain power points. Once they get set and into a safe casting position (something any controller can provide) they will be an unstoppable wrecking ball, generating 2 points a turn and blasting fully augmented spells. They need a check on how many points can be converted per encounter.

Harmonious definitely needs reworked, and with out a cap on points converted per encounter the class will always be unbalanced.

Edit: Once again after thought.

Perhaps the thing to do would be to make it so you can only spend 2, 4, 6 + dex or con modifier font of flame points per encounter, or just remove the ability to convert them all together.

[Shadow_Elf]

My comments and ideas, spoilered for length:
I feel like this is going to be a concept that is impossible to balance alongside other 4e classes as-written - its just too different. Additionally, I feel like a class that only does Fire Damage is going to be walled by some things, such as Red Dragons and Efreets and Fire Elementals, which really isn't fair to the members of the class, since unlike classes that can choose to focus on fire only, they do not have a choice. I understand you put a lot of thought and effort into this class, but I feel like the points system as-written is rather arbitrary, with little mathematical basis, and that it is too one-dimensional.

As suggested above, I think a Psionic Striker class called the Bender which can do fire, water, air and earth I think would be a better idea, using the power points system to augment at-will powers, and it would still fit the flavour and plans you have for the class. You could even make the daily powers of the class Stance-like things (based on the Warden's Polymorph Powers) which provide a buff to your powers for the encounter and give you a special encounter power to fire off at some point, which would retain the idea of at-will (base powers) encounter (power points) and daily (stances/whatever) resources, but still make the class dependent on augmenting its at-will abilities in novel ways.

tl;dr: I think it is too alien and complex this way, and isn't grounded in the math enough, so perhaps you should try a different approach.

[Surrealistik]

2d10 just seems way too strong for a level 1 and because of the way the point system works people are going to be firing it off augmented 3-5 times an encounter at least.

I've since increased the Empower cost to 2 Firebending points, though the bonus remains at 1d10.


I think its just too easy to get the points to be honest. and suspending a move action on a harmonious would allow them to pop it off augmented every turn. Thats why I was suggesting moving it more toward psionics, they have set points.

It just seems like the classes power stay the same as the fight goes on. While as every other class gets weaker as they expend encounter powers and drain power points. Once they get set and into a safe casting position (something any controller can provide) they will be an unstoppable wrecking ball, generating 2 points a turn and blasting fully augmented spells. They need a check on how many points can be converted per encounter.

Harmonious definitely needs reworked, and with out a cap on points converted per encounter the class will always be unbalanced.

I agree that the conversion rate may be a little too low. Instead of a de facto cap, I've increased it to 5, which takes considerable time to amass or meaningful sacrifice; this also has a nice standardized symmetry with the path specific Font of Flame abilities, and really presents a definite opportunity cost.





My comments and ideas, spoilered for length:
I feel like this is going to be a concept that is impossible to balance alongside other 4e classes as-written - its just too different. Additionally, I feel like a class that only does Fire Damage is going to be walled by some things, such as Red Dragons and Efreets and Fire Elementals, which really isn't fair to the members of the class, since unlike classes that can choose to focus on fire only, they do not have a choice. I understand you put a lot of thought and effort into this class, but I feel like the points system as-written is rather arbitrary, with little mathematical basis, and that it is too one-dimensional.

As suggested above, I think a Psionic Striker class called the Bender which can do fire, water, air and earth I think would be a better idea, using the power points system to augment at-will powers, and it would still fit the flavour and plans you have for the class. You could even make the daily powers of the class Stance-like things (based on the Warden's Polymorph Powers) which provide a buff to your powers for the encounter and give you a special encounter power to fire off at some point, which would retain the idea of at-will (base powers) encounter (power points) and daily (stances/whatever) resources, but still make the class dependent on augmenting its at-will abilities in novel ways.

tl;dr: I think it is too alien and complex this way, and isn't grounded in the math enough, so perhaps you should try a different approach.

Keep in mind that it _is_ a work in progress. That the math is crude and somewhat arbitrary at the moment is expected; this sort of thing is precisely what I'm looking for feedback on. I want to get the central premise balanced by people who (unlike myself) are thoroughly experienced with the 4ed system.

Now as for changing the core premise to something more familiar, I just can't go there. Is it radically different? Absolutely. But at the same time, that's part of the point. I don't think that means it will be outright impossible to balance so much as difficult, especially so for someone relatively new to 4ed. That is why I am drawing on the expertise of others. Personally, I think the end result, a highly flexible, innovative and thematic class largely faithful to its Avatar roots is well worth the effort.

Fire immunities in the meanwhile can be bypassed using the Phoenix Flame utility, and the Harmonious Bender's Font of Flames special ability.

[Ihouji]

I think raging benders are still going to need something to even out the font point generation with harmonious. Not sure if you should nerf one or buff the other would need play tested, but Id hazard a guess with the change to needing 5 for the conversion raging will need a buff. I'd say boost it to 2-3 points for the HP sacrifice.

[Surrealistik]

I think raging benders are still going to need something to even out the font point generation with harmonious. Not sure if you should nerf one or buff the other would need play tested, but Id hazard a guess with the change to needing 5 for the conversion raging will need a buff. I'd say boost it to 2-3 points for the HP sacrifice.

2 points for the sacrifice of 5 HP? You sure? Could be some pretty degenerate synergy with party healers. Remember he can do it a number of times per round equal to his Constitution modifier.

[Ekio]

Curious, have you played the firebender yet? The one from the not-so-latest PDF you've linked up there.

[Surrealistik]

Curious, have you played the firebender yet? The one from the not-so-latest PDF you've linked up there.

I haven't; I don't like that it's so rigid and typical. It doesn't represent the fluidity of bending well at all.

[Ekio]

I haven't; I don't like that it's so rigid and typical. It doesn't represent the fluidity of bending well at all.

Oh. Hm.

When we first playtested them, the person who playtested it thought it represented the firebending styles of the characters from the show. Granted, she played the Raging build of the firebender which is more up close and personal.

The final draft of the firebender (plus all of the other benders) comes out sometime in the next week. I wouldn't exert your efforts until its done. :)

[Surrealistik]

Oh. Hm.

When we first playtested them, the person who playtested it thought it represented the firebending styles of the characters from the show. Granted, she played the Raging build of the firebender which is more up close and personal.

The final draft of the firebender (plus all of the other benders) comes out sometime in the next week. I wouldn't exert your efforts until its done. :)

Maybe, but I don't see the core of the class really changing (which is the standard at-will, encounter, daily, utility progression).

Again my main issue is that the player is restricted to rigid, fixed 'techniques' rather than given freedom to define the exact manifestation and nature of their bending.

[Surrealistik]

Added Pyrotechnics At-Will and Minor Bending Utilities.

[Surrealistik]

Added fire and smoke hazards for integration with certain powers.