Binder build help?

[W3bDragon]

Hi folks, first time poster.

I'm looking for some advice about my current character. I'm playing in a mid-level game and decided to give the binder a try. So far I've got:

Human Binder 3, Wiz 3, Anima Mage 4

Here are the problems I'm having:

* I wanted to try the binder and felt that it couldn't stand on its own as a caster-type character, so I threw in wizard. Now the wizard/anima mage are overshadowing any binding benefits I'm getting.

* The spells I picked for my wizard class are a couple of offensive, and the rest utility/buffing spells, since I was assuming the binder class will stand on its own during combat. However, I'm finding myself just memorizing mostly offensive spells because the binder class isn't providing me any useful caster-like abilities to use every round.

* I'm now finding that a binder could be a decent secondary fighter, but that's not what I built.

More info about the character:
Str 14
Dex 9
Con 16
Int 16
Wis 12
Cha 17 (21 with CHA cloak)

Feats:

Expel Vestige
Practised Spellcaster
Improved Toughness
Extend Spell
Presistant Spell

General Flavor: On a whim, I decided to pick feats/stats/spells to give me lots of HPs. With all buffs up, I'm sitting at roughly 150 HP fully buffed. However, with AC 9 and Reflex save of +1, I'm flying through those HPs every fight very quickly.

Campaign: Political intrigue, with infrequent, but brutal combat.
Rest of the party: Rogue 9/sorc 1 and Swashbuckler 10

Optifu: Not much optifu in this campaign, but not frowned upon as long as its RAI.

I was thinking of taking the Trollshape spell, which would turn me into a decent secondary fighter with the hitpoints I have, but I'm feeling that would disregard my binder levels. Also, Presistant Trollshape would nice, but I can't walk around the city all day looking like a troll.

The character's power will jump next level when I get my 2nd vestige and vestige metamagic for Presistant Spell, but that doesn't help with character direction.

I've read both the Binder's Handbook and the Anima Mage handbook (where I picked up the Presist trick) but those focus on higher level play. I'm looking for getting the most mileage from the character in the next few levels.

Any advice would be very welcome.

[Kosjsjach]

It's highly recommended to get into Anima Mage as a Wizard3/Binder1 with the Improved Binding feat. I'm almost undoubtedly ninja'd, so hopefully they'll have explained why.

EDIT: Huh, would you look at that; I'm the first reply. Suffice to say, a Binder 1/ Wizard 3/ Anima Mage 6 is going to be much more powerful and competent. You cast as a 9th-level Wizard (5th-level spells!) and bind as a 9th-level Binder (thanks to the Improved Binding feat; seriously, look it up). This is a huge improvement, and you're really not giving up much with those two Binder levels.

[Thurbane]

Technically, due to the awfully loose wording of the entry reqs, you can actually get into Anima Mage with no levels of Binder at all - the feats that allow non-Binders to bind vestiges will do the trick. Stupid, but technically legal.

[W3bDragon]

Yeah I've read about the other ways I could have entered Anima Mage, but I saw that after I made my character. Also, our group is a strictly RAI group. So if it looks, smells, and feels like a loophole, we don't use it.

On a more campaign-based level, I felt that "Supress Sign" from 2nd level binder is too important for RP reasons for me to skip.

[Frog Dragon]

Then Binder 2/Wizard 3/Anima Mage 5? Imp. Binding isn't much of a loophole. Infact it's sole purpose is to get you higher level binding than normal.

[W3bDragon]

Then Binder 2/Wizard 3/Anima Mage 5? Imp. Binding isn't much of a loophole. Infact it's sole purpose is to get you higher level binding than normal.

I guess I didn't make it clear that I'm already playing this character, thus the current levels I have are set. My group doesn't like retraining unless it is to fix a major problem with the character.

What I'm looking for is suggestions of how to make the binder levels I have more useful in combat as a caster role. Or other options that would feature the binder aspect more prominently.

[WinWin]

Take a look at some of the Vestige abilities. Think of them as a spell for the day.

Tenebrous is great if you want the flicker ability or turn/rebuke for the day.

Baum for healing.

Acerarak for immunities

I could write a huge list. But you know what spells you character can call on as a wizard. Think of pacts that help out your weaknesses or synergise well.

You get a lot of touch/range tough attacks for the day? Pick a vestige that gives you SA or ranged feats.

Facing undead? Take a pact that gives turning or negative energy healing.

Try and ask your DM if your character can quest for a pact phylactery, that may allow you more versatility. You will be able to change your pact on the fly.

Hope this helps.

[Person_Man]

General Advice:

Buy armor and an animated shield: When made out of the right special materials, they have 0% Spell Failure. Seriously, there is no reason you should have such piss poor AC.
The key to being a multi-class Wizard is to avoid/ignore any effect that allows a Save DC. Instead, focus on personal buffs and No Save battlefield control effects. Spells like Alter Self (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871862/3.5Forms_for_Alter_Self?pg=1), Weapon-like spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149163), and Solid Fog (just to name a few) can be ridiculously useful when used intelligently.
Veil of Allure magic item: Grants a +2 save DC to all charisma-based supernatural abilities. Sandstorm.


There are also dozens of different combos/tricks derived from vestiges. Here are a few that you can access at or near your current level:

Anything with a breath weapon + Entangling Breath feat: Excellent Save or Suck.
Ronove: Can use Mage Hand as a Swift Action. Buy a thin, light, big piece of metal. Move it around every round to block line of sight, and casters/ranged enemies will have a very hard time targeting you.
Malphas: Grants unlimited Invisibility, which is only broken when you make an attack. Summons are not attacks.
Dahlver-Nar: Shield Self makes one target share 50% of your damage (Will negates). Buy a mount or some other animal with a lot of hit points, keep Shield Self on it continuously, and you’ve basically increased your hit points by 50%. Then in the first or second round of combat try to switch it to the most dangerous enemy. This syngergizes very well with your current high hit points and low AC. Maddening Moan is a potent area of effect Save or Daze effect.
Paimon: Buff your movement speed and cast Thunderlance or something similar, then go to town with Whirlwind Attack and Dance of Death.

[W3bDragon]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've had a bit more success using the binder abilities in combat over the last couple of sessions.

Tenebrous with his flicker ability is great for blasting with aoe spells centered on the caster (fireburst/greater) and flickering out of the way, as well as flickering away from stuff you don't want to get hit by (breath weapons for example).

[mrcarter11]

As an aside to this topic, how many people think that amon is good? I personally like using him, between the breath and the charge. But I was wondering, since no one ever mentions him online.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The main reason why Amon doesn't get much mention is simply due to the fact that he's a 1st level vestige with level appropriate abilities, but generally he's overshadowed by most of the midlevel stuffs.

For example, if you want AC, Savnok's your buddy come 3rd level (1st with the feat), Malphas has his free invisibility all day long with scouting tactics, and there are only more dudes from there.

So, it's less "Amon isn't a good vestige" and more "Binders only have so many vestiges to bind in a given day: make them count."

[arguskos]

As an aside to this topic, how many people think that amon is good? I personally like using him, between the breath and the charge. But I was wondering, since no one ever mentions him online.
At low levels (read: under level 4), Amon is a fine fellow to use. I like the charge followed by bashing people with a weapon or your face, mixing in a breath weapon here and there.

I might be playing a Binder 2/Duskblade 1 (possibly entering Anima Mage) soon for a very unoptimized game, and he's pretty solid as a meleer right now.

[mabriss lethe]

Amon sees some use in melee binders, even after some of the "better" ones show up, but he's overshadowed pretty quickly.

The next feat you obtain should be Improved Binding. It opens up so many more possibilities (usually granting you access to 1 vestige level higher than normal)

A note on Tenebrous. Yes, his flicker power is awesome, but by no means is it the only reason to bind him. Tenebrous is pretty much the "sweet spot" vestige.
-Ability to create a personal level deeper darkness effect that you can see through. Miss chance for anyone trying to hit you, doesn't interfere with the rest of your party when kept at its smallest setting, can be expanded when the situation requires it.
-Turn/Rebuke Undead- This can be great. Rebuke away if your alignment lets you, and if you're an Anima Mage, I do believe it will. (better for Tenebrous Apostates and simple multiclass binder/cerics) Also, if you're worried about your/your party's HP. Pick up Healing Devotion. Using Tenebrous, you can charge you and your allies with effectively unlimited fast healing at the beginning of the day.

[Tinydwarfman]

I find that anima mages are much better suited using their binds as secondary passive abilities than as their main force, mostly because spells are so freaking awesome. I recommend Tenebrous, as said before, Dantalion when you can bind him, and Zceryll after that. Just don't forget you have a lot of vestiges, and ones like Acererak can be really useful when you know you are facing undead, or the Triad for socializing, etc.