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RedVerse
2010-07-06, 12:47 PM
Hello there, my name is Rachael and I'm eighteen.
Growing up my parents were super strict and religious, and I wasn't allowed to participate in any form of RPGs, or allowed to have any friends who played them. I always wanted to, though, and now that I'm out of the house I'm determined to learn.

I know the general basis of how these games work - sort of like a MMORPG, except put all in point and narrative custom form, right? But I've had no experience with these things, except for once at a convention where I got as far as creating a character. Besides that, though, I am entirely oblivious as to any nuances and unspoken rules that might exist.

My boyfriend has informed me that he wants me to DM a game sometime, as I'm pretty good at plots. I have blithely informed him that I would love to, but now I'm realizing that I have some resemblances to a deer on a late highway who suddenly discovered a large, bright car is coming her way.

He told me to come here and beg for mercy, or help or whatever the people around here dole out. I'm pretty sure I can do it, based on what I already know and what I know I can do, but I'm sorely lacking in the experience factor.

So here I am, asking for your advice for a pure beginner, on some basic things I need to know about RPGs, and particularly being thrust into the DM position of things. I would immensely appreciate it!

Prodan
2010-07-06, 12:50 PM
You should not be DMing a game if this is your first time doing anything of the sort.

Edit: I guess you could look at this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474)...

PersonMan
2010-07-06, 12:53 PM
You should not be DMing a game if this is your first time doing anything of the sort.

Edit: I guess you could look at this (http://http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474)...

Bad link. This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474) is what you wanted.

hamishspence
2010-07-06, 12:53 PM
Maybe start small.

Doesn't have to be a big game- get used to how some of the rules work- play out a few battles between pregenerated characters and monsters- do short dungeon crawls with no plot- just one player and the DM, and build from there.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 12:55 PM
What system are we talking about here?

RedVerse
2010-07-06, 12:56 PM
Well, see, I've had a lot of experience in things *related* to RPG games. So while I don't know them exactly, I'm pretty confident that I can learn it quickly and perform well. So... I think I can. My biggest strength is creating plots, so going with general dungeon crawling would not be terribly enjoyable, I don't think.

And the link is awesome. Reading it now.

Umael
2010-07-06, 12:56 PM
Wow! What an introduction...

Okay, first of all, welcome! We don't bite, unless you ask, and then it is only for d2 points of damage.

There are a few threads that can be found here and there in which various members have already address these issues. The big one is: relax!

What you are doing, basically, is one part telling a story with a bunch of friends and one part playing a boardgame. Only in this story, you have the basic plot and everything filled out except the protagonists, whom your friends will kindly provide. As a "boardgame", be ready to put the maps away and just describe what is going on and how the world reacts to what everyone else is doing.

You didn't mention which system you were using, but I'm going to assume that you are going to use a published system, likely even D&D (although which edition you use does make a bit of a difference). It is a good idea to take a careful look through the published book and familiarize yourself with it as much as possible.

One last comment (before the ninja fill me with shuriken), look at my signature - I list the four meta-game rules by which I believe all RPGs should be played. Consider them food for thought.

If you have any particular questions, go ahead and ask, and someone (maybe even me) will be glad to answer.

RedVerse
2010-07-06, 12:57 PM
What system are we talking about here?

Aha, now, that's something I need to learn. I know the general concept, but would you mind explaining exactly the details of 'systems'?

Prodan
2010-07-06, 12:57 PM
We don't bite, unless you ask, and then it is only for d2 points of damage.


Rerolled to infinity.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 12:58 PM
Aha, now, that's something I need to learn. I know the general concept, but would you mind explaining exactly the details of 'systems'?

What game are you going to DM? D&D 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e, 4e, Savage Worlds, GURPS, Rifts, White Wolf, Vampire: the Gothening, Dark Heresy, D20 Modern...

RedVerse
2010-07-06, 01:00 PM
What game are you going to DM? D&D 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e, 4e, Savage Worlds, GURPS, Rifts, White Wolf, Vampire: the Gothening, Dark Heresy, D20 Modern...

The Boyfriend has dutifully informed me "3.5".

Snake-Aes
2010-07-06, 01:04 PM
Aha, now, that's something I need to learn. I know the general concept, but would you mind explaining exactly the details of 'systems'?

Without rules, a RPG game is no different than two kids playing Cop&Burglar, one would scream "bang!" and the other would say "you miss!" "did not!" "Did!"

So you need a mediator. This is the chosen system and the Master (DM, Narrator). A system puts rules to tell how good or bad your characters are at what they do, and puts guidelines to how the world works. The most popular here is d&d. The Master is the person who crafts the universe the other players will be involved in, and is mostly an arbiter and challenger. It's his job to bring opportunities (or not :p) for the players to go and do what they like.

My personal advice is that you shouldn't DM yet. The bare minimum you need to dm is a bit of planning, decision making on the fly, and good knowledge of the rules(whenever there is a conflict there, you're the voice of reason).

Instead, get to a group and just play. Try a simple system first, like True20, BESM or Paranoia(3D&T is my recommendation if you and your group know Portuguese).

If your plots are just too good to waste but you aren't comfortable with the whole thing yet, just pass them to your dm and do your best not to use your player knowledge as if your character knew it :D

Prodan
2010-07-06, 01:05 PM
The Boyfriend has dutifully informed me "3.5".

Oh.

That's... a little complicated.

Bit much to give someone who's just getting started.

Have you considered dumping him and finding a new boyfriend?

Dairun Cates
2010-07-06, 01:05 PM
Step 1: Start out with Risus (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm). The book is 10 pages long and the rules are fast and loose. This allows you to focus entirely on getting in the roleplaying mood, and 90% of the campaign will be player driven.

Of course, your players might not be up for it.

Step 2: Pick up a few game books and read the GM section. Almost universally, they come with some sound GM'ing advice. Paranoia XP actually has one of the best GM sections in the world for this.

Step 3: Don't panic. Start out small and work your way up. Start at low manageable levels at first. Level them fast if you want, but get a few sessions of low levels.

Step 4: Run some one-shots at first. They'll help. Just trust me. By doing a couple of one-shots, you can screw up a session without potentially screwing up the campaign. Gives you some time to get acclimated.

Step 5: Whatever system you go for, read it cover to cover if you have time. A decent knowledge of the game is handy and near required.

Step 6: Relax. Go with the flow. As a GM, you have to play as a LOT of characters AND keep up with the group. Don't fight the group too much though. Go along with them. If they want to go wacky, go wacky. If they want to go serious, go serious. If they want to go to Olive Garden... you're probably doing something wrong.

Step 7: Use pre-generated characters and short-handed. One of the biggest mistakes new GMs make is over-planning. Characters and enemies are the biggest ones. Not all enemy NPCs need to be fully statted out. If the NPC only exists to fight them, then you probably don't need to write out any non-combat skill checks. If the NPC will never see combat, you don't even need class levels as much as just relevant skill checks. Cut out things you won't need, if you do end up needing them (and sometimes you will), make them up off the top of your head. MOST players won't be so nitpicky to actually need every NPC be perfectly statted out. As long as you're not hand-waving auto-failure, they'll be fine.

Step 8: Seriously, relax. If you're not having fun, your players won't.

Step 9: Consider a Co-GM or a trusted player to help out. By relieving some of the responsibility you can crawl a little more into your own skin and get your own groove (so to speak).

Step 10: If all else fails and the whole thing turns into a trainwreck, laugh about it and watch a movie... or play a board game... or 1,000 blank white cards... Did I mention Risus (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm)?

RedVerse
2010-07-06, 01:07 PM
Oh.

That's... a little complicated.

Bit much to give someone who's just getting started.

Have you considered dumping him and finding a new boyfriend?

We're getting married. xD

But no. Starting slow with pretty much anything frustrates me. I like to dive into it. If it's complicated, bring it on and I shall conquer! Woo!

And that's really helpful, Dariun. Or Darius. I went back to the edit page and now I can't remember your name. Darien. Daruin?

Thajocoth
2010-07-06, 01:07 PM
Aha, now, that's something I need to learn. I know the general concept, but would you mind explaining exactly the details of 'systems'?

As far as I know, there are two types of systems. Level based, where you gain abilities as you gain levels, and point based, where you gain points that you can save up or spend to improve your character. Personally, I find point based systems too complicated for me. There are too many combinations of options for me to properly weigh every decision.

What I play is D&D 4e. It's pretty easy to learn, and having been out for a while now, it's got a lot of options. One benefit of D&D 4e for a DM, especially a new DM, is that the monsters are very simple to just look up and use. If you purchase a single month of DDI, downloading the Character Builder and Adventure Tools (Monster Builder), you'll get access to everything that's available in 4e, and it won't suddenly vanish when the month ends. There's also free starter material for the game if you want to try it before paying anything.

Also, D&D 4e is the only system where I think someone completely new to RPGs might not have too much trouble as a DM... Then again, there are a lot of systems I haven't played.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-06, 01:10 PM
We're getting married. xD

But no. Starting slow with pretty much anything frustrates me. I like to dive into it. If it's complicated, bring it on and I shall conquer! Woo!

Be aware of two things, then.
1) It's a big system. Sometimes things don't make sense. (If you search for "cheese" here, you'll see how crazy it can be if people are jerks about their interpretation of rules)
2) The spirit of the rules is that they just give you something to base yourself on to keep the universe consistent. If the group doesn't like a rule, change or remove it.
3) Having fun is the goal. "Winning" is enjoying the game. It ends when people think it should be over (I've had campaigns that lasted two to three years, and campaigns that were little more than a week's worth of adventures).

Prodan
2010-07-06, 01:12 PM
Be aware of two things, then.
1) It's a big system. Sometimes things don't make sense. (If you search for "cheese" here, you'll see how crazy it can be if people are jerks about their interpretation of rules)

Some things are cheesy even if you intepret the rules "correctly".

Umael
2010-07-06, 01:12 PM
My personal advice is that you shouldn't DM yet. The bare minimum you need to dm is a bit of planning, decision making on the fly, and good knowledge of the rules(whenever there is a conflict there, you're the voice of reason).

I will disagree with the first sentence, but I will add a large caveat here.


Instead, get to a group and just play.

This is where Snake-Aes is correct. IF you can find an already existing group (and you can trust them), join them. If you can't join them, ask if it is okay to sit in on a game. The experience you can get from just watching an existing game, even a bad game, can do a lot more to teach you than this forum can.

Unfortunately, I have the feeling from your initial post that this is not a possibility.



Try a simple system first, like True20, BESM or Paranoia(3D&T is my recommendation if you and your group know Portuguese).

I have mixed feelings about this.

If what you have is D&D 3.5, then use D&D 3.5. But don't be afraid to toss the rules aside to streamline the game.

Keep in mind that most RPGs are most intensive with their rules when it comes to combat, but D&D might be the exception in that the magic with its game-breaking properties is worse.



If your plots are just too good to waste but you aren't comfortable with the whole thing yet, just pass them to your dm and do your best not to use your player knowledge as if your character knew it :D

No.

Do NOT do this.

For one, that's surrendering your intellectual property (as minor as this idea seems). For another, there is a very good chance that someone else will botch your beautiful plots. And a third, playing as if you had no knowledge is both difficult and stifling - nothing something I would recommend for a beginner.

Dairun Cates
2010-07-06, 01:12 PM
We're getting married. xD

But no. Starting slow with pretty much anything frustrates me. I like to dive into it. If it's complicated, bring it on and I shall conquer! Woo!

And that's really helpful, Dariun. Or Darius. I went back to the edit page and now I can't remember your name. Darien. Daruin?

It's okay. Almost no one ever gets it right. Serves me right for just scrambling a word and going with it. Just think "Die Run". Helps most people (unless you thought it was pronounced Darren).

That's the thing. Any kind of GM'ing is a dive of sorts. Even Risus has its challenges. The only reason people are a little "eh" about starting on 3.5 is because it's fairly unforgiving for starting mistakes. There's not a lot of room for GM ruling in the rules because they've covered most things. Tends to cause arguments if you don't know the rules.

But, if your players have their hearts set on 3.5, there's certainly a lot of support for it.

EDIT:

As far as I know, there are two types of systems. Level based, where you gain abilities as you gain levels, and point based, where you gain points that you can save up or spend to improve your character.

Oh, there's far more than that, but most people don't know they exist, and some just defy classification. I only really know because I actually did some graduate level research on this stuff.

For instance, most of white wolf is kinda hard to say its either. It's more ability based than anything. You spend experience to gain new abilities, but save for attribute and skill scores, they're all one time things. Kinda like a choose and pick class system.

Burning Wheel's even weirder. It's entirely skill based. Everything on your sheet (including ability scores and FINANCES) is a skill that levels up the more you use it. Don't have a skill? Start practicing.

Then there's classless and level-less free-form diceless style ones where you just have a character and play it.

There's even class based point buy system like first edition mutants and masterminds and BESM d20.

AtwasAwamps
2010-07-06, 01:12 PM
Side note: Umael does bite and will steal your cupcakes and your love.

Ahhh, 3.5.

I’m going to suggest right off the start you take a look at the following books published by WotC for the mechanics of the game:

Player’s Handbook
Dungeon Master’s Guide
Dungeon Master’s Guide II

Don’t bother with a cover to cover read unless you have a lot of time, but check out the classes, the way rolls are made, the types of settings, and general rules to play with. Make your boyfriend sit with you and help you with everything you don’t understand. I know that when I started running after only a few months of playing, I told my DM that I would be calling him constantly with questions and he accepted this as a matter of course.

After you’ve done that or at least made a start on it, I’d suggest you take a look at the following ‘campaign journals’ – While they won’t match exactly what you’re trying to do, they’ll give you an idea of what a campaign can be like from a player’s side and from a DM’s side:

Players:
SilverClawShift: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116836&highlight=SilverClawShift

Saph: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139572&highlight=kingdoms

Fayd & Co.: (Note that this is not a 3.5 game and the mechanics can be confusing): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125072

DMs:

Saph: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94243


Optimally, while you’re doing all this, you’ll get to play a little bit in a game or watch one…experience trumps learning in this case, every time.

Good luck, and welcome to the fold.

Aroka
2010-07-06, 01:15 PM
Okay, first of all, welcome! We don't bite, unless you ask, and then it is only for d2 points of damage.

Unfortunately, some of us are crusaders. Gnash.


You should not be DMing a game if this is your first time doing anything of the sort.

Why not? I started RPGs by getting the red box, getting my friend, and starting as DM. I've bought and first-GM'd every RPG I've played.


RedVerse: You should start by getting the 3.5 Player's Handbook, and skimming it for a while. Then, go back to the start and create a character. Create another. Create a bunch. Once you've got a good hang of the process, move on to reading the combat rules. Then read the magic rules. Then skim some of the other rules (not a lot left after that).

Then, get the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, and start skimming that. If some part looks important, read it entirely. You'll need the Monster Manual, too, and will want to familiarize yourself with monsters you choose to use in any scenario.

Hopefully, at the table, you'll have someone with more rules experience to lean on if you're totally stymied. Experienced players can pretty much run fights by themselves - mine do (as a GM, I don't need to chip in even when we're teaching a new player - the players sitting closest help them through everything, usually without pausing the game). Be careful, however, to not let them control things. Help with combat mechanics, sure - but you're the one running the world and the story (but see below).

When you're writing adventures, be loose and cover different options. You want to avoid strictly-scripted scenarios and events. The classic D&D adventure is a location - often a dungeon - with the contents and inhabitants recorded, and nothing stricter than "if you physically do this, something happens" coded. Focusing on your strength - interesting plotting - is a good idea, but you have to keep it loose anyway; create an environment, a background, and non-player characters, then let your players' characters loose into it. You need to know what happens WITHOUT the player characters' interference, but you can never know what they'll do, so you can't plan for all of it. The better you know your environment, your scenario, and your NPCs, the better you are able to deal with surprises and unexpected actions on the fly.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-06, 01:16 PM
No.

Do NOT do this.

For one, that's surrendering your intellectual property (as minor as this idea seems). For another, there is a very good chance that someone else will botch your beautiful plots. And a third, playing as if you had no knowledge is both difficult and stifling - nothing something I would recommend for a beginner.

Really? You'd get people to dm the second they asked for it even if they knew -nothing- of it, but you wouldn't allow them to experiment separating themselves from the personalities they are trying to develop? That sounds odd to me.

And on the intellectual property thing... If you are seriously concerned about it, you wouldn't dm much. Anyone at the game could 'steal' it and claiming it back would be a bitch.

Umael
2010-07-06, 01:18 PM
But no. Starting slow with pretty much anything frustrates me. I like to dive into it. If it's complicated, bring it on and I shall conquer! Woo!

That's a good attitude, but a little prudence will go a long way.

Might I suggest that you start out with a mini-story? For example, let's say you have a sweeping epic in mind that involves gods and romance and politics and daring rescues and incredible rewards. Great.

But before you have your Indiana Jones or your Luke Skywalker, do something else. Talk to your boyfriend about that time his character* was growing up on the pig farm and got into a fight with the town bully (this would be before he ran off and became a hero, of course). Then sit down and figure out the combat of that battle and see who won.

(* - Basically, go into the backgrounds of the various characters and find things that involve conflict. You can even agree on the result, but HOW you get there is what matters. So our pig farmer might get beaten by the town bully, so what? And if you sit down with dice and the stats on your town bully and roll the combat and your boyfriend's character wins, hey, great!)

JeenLeen
2010-07-06, 01:19 PM
For D&D 3.5, you can find the basic rules and resources online on the SRD website: http://www.d20srd.org/

Has your boyfriend or other friends played D&D 3.5? If so, they can probably explain a lot of the rules and setting to you. I'd recommend having one of the DM a dungeon crawl or short one-shot to get you use to the game. Once you know the rules and system, you can craft a campaign (i.e., good and long story) utilizing 3.5. I would think it'd be frustrating to have to DM without knowing the system, and (as a player) frustrating to have a DM who didn't know the rules.

Depending on how comfortable you all are with new people, you could try looking for a short game or one-shot game at a local hobby shop. Tell the GM you are new players looking to learn the game. Some might not want to teach, but I imagine many wouldn't mind.

I would recommend buying the Player's Handbook (PHB), Dungeon Master's Guide (DMG), and Monster Manual I (MMI). There are a lot of useful splat (i.e., extra) books that give more options and details, but get the basics first. Most of the stuff in those three books is replicated on the SRD website, but I find a paper copy easier and it's good to have on-hand in case you need to quickly look-up something.
Version 4.0 recently came out and I believe those three 'core' books are not out-of-print, but Amazon and most hobby shops probably still have copies.

More detailed advice
When you DM, I recommend you ask the players what sort of game they want and what types of characters they plan to make. Make a story that they would want to play in. If you need to make some houserules, like banning evil characters or a certain class, do so but explain why.

Also try to figure out what power level the characters play at. 'Optimizing', 'min-max', and 'munchkin' can all be taken to mean making characters that break the game by being overpowered (although the first two do not necessarily mean this). Magic-casters can greatly overpower melee in 3.5 if the players use them in a certain way.

You will probably need to make many 'house rules', changes to the rules to keep the game fun or to make things flow smoothly. Some spells should be banned or augmented to prevent abuse, 'cheese' as mentioned above. By the book, the skill Diplomacy is horribly overpowered; it needs to be house-ruled or a low-level bard could get the final boss to change sides. But sometimes a house-rule is simply a rule that works for your group and that makes it more fun for the party.

Aroka
2010-07-06, 01:20 PM
As far as I know, there are two types of systems. Level based, where you gain abilities as you gain levels, and point based, where you gain points that you can save up or spend to improve your character. Personally, I find point based systems too complicated for me. There are too many combinations of options for me to properly weigh every decision.

That does not even remotely cover it.

There's class-based, level-based, skill-based, point-based, use-based... and so on. None of these are exclusive.

Boci
2010-07-06, 01:21 PM
Really? You'd get people to dm the second they asked for it even if they knew -nothing- of it, but you wouldn't allow them to experiment separating themselves from the personalities they are trying to develop? That sounds odd to me.

Because roleplaying ignorance can never live up to being ignorant?

The Anarresti
2010-07-06, 01:22 PM
Although I'm sure everyone else has great advice, I'd like to say that I succeeded at DMing a 3.5 game without much prior gaming experiance. Granted, my father played 1e back in the day and introduced me to the game early on, but I was eight and he rolled all the dice for me (aww...). So, I had experience with the game, but not with the mechanics, and I decided to read the books until I understood them and DM a game with my friends last year.
I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes...thinking back gameplay moved very slowly. But it was a lot of fun: I made up a lot of things on the fly. The trick I'd say is to play with patient and forgiving people who are already your friends, and to pretend to know what you are doing.
For example, my PCs were investigating an old graveyard in a mining town. I put an unholy symbol of Neural (evil god of death) on a rich man's morgue just for fun. Soon my PCs were deducing the existance of an evil cult in the mining town. All I had to do was pretend to know what I was talking about, and the PC's were convinced I was two steps ahead when actually I was one step behind.

Munchkin-Masher
2010-07-06, 01:23 PM
Why hello Rachael Welcome to the playground, and welcome to our hobby.

Reading you post i would guess that you boyfriend has the core books for the system (Player Guide, Dungeon Masters Guide, Monsters Manuel.) I would advise you to start with reading the besaics in the players guide and then reading the DM tips in the Dungeon masters guide.

You seem determined so if you put enough energy into it you should be able to chew though the basic rules in a week or 2. Don't jump into reading Splatbook (Extra rulebooks that aren't neccecary).

Basically play a few games and see if you like it. If DMing becomes to much of a burden just ask your boyfriend to take over and play instead.

And by all means, if you have in more questions, ask away, It's what we're here for.

Thajocoth
2010-07-06, 01:23 PM
That does not even remotely cover it.

There's class-based, level-based, skill-based, point-based, use-based... and so on. None of these are exclusive.

Well, I was only sorting by when you can upgrade your character... Not what sorts of options you can pick from when you do.

Bad Situation
2010-07-06, 01:25 PM
Make sure the people you're DMing for are people you know and are close to. It would make things go along smoother if they also know how to play but it's not necessary.

I would suggest picking up a module as well. You don't have to use the module but reading it can help you understand how you as the DM should plan things out in your game.

9mm
2010-07-06, 01:25 PM
We're getting married. xD

But no. Starting slow with pretty much anything frustrates me. I like to dive into it. If it's complicated, bring it on and I shall conquer! Woo!

And that's really helpful, Dariun. Or Darius. I went back to the edit page and now I can't remember your name. Darien. Daruin?

3.5 has over 30 books printed for it; now chances are you'll never need over half of them, but it's by far one of the more... expansive games out there. Story time: second session of the first game I ever dm'd I sicked a 6 headed pyrohydra on my players... with the (now in hindsight) predictable results, DMing is an art of itself which is why most are suggesting you start of as a player so you can get the grasp of basic mechanics (if for no other reason than to know what rules to ignore), however if you want to dm, be the dm and remeber the golden rule: If a game isn't fun, it isn't a game but a chore.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 01:26 PM
Make sure the people you're DMing for are people you know and are close to. It would make things go along smoother if they also know how to play but it's not necessary.

It also helps if you can trust them to not be dirty, cheating munchkins.

Boci
2010-07-06, 01:26 PM
One tactic for a balanced game is to collectivly as a group decide which tier you want to play in:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0

Dairun Cates
2010-07-06, 01:30 PM
Well, I was only sorting by when you can upgrade your character... Not what sorts of options you can pick from when you do.

That's the thing... Even how experience is handed out isn't universal. Burning Wheel literally has a system of "use a skill enough at high enough level checks regardless of success or failure and level it up". It doesn't dictate when you get new skills. Heck. Getting a new skill can happen literally as often as you can pick up a stick and start swinging it like an idiot.

And if we're talking about experience methods, Hong Kong Action Theatre's (preferably first edition since second is MOSTLY just Tri-stat) star power system is REALLY weird. Experience is your celebrity, your ability to train stats, and your ability to secure character roles at the same time, and the more you spend to secure roles, the more you earn.

VERY WEIRD.

Also, Risus actually has an optional rule for leveling that involves making the GM shoot milk out of his or her nose.

Munchkin-Masher
2010-07-06, 01:31 PM
It also helps if you can trust them to not be dirty, cheating munchkins.

Oh, be nice.

Umael
2010-07-06, 01:32 PM
Side note: Umael does bite and will steal your cupcakes and your love.

Only if your name is AtwasAwamps.

...

Where's my cupcake? :smallbiggrin:


Really? You'd get people to dm the second they asked for it even if they knew -nothing- of it, but you wouldn't allow them to experiment separating themselves from the personalities they are trying to develop? That sounds odd to me.

Not what I said.

For one thing, the lass doesn't know "nothing" of the game. She knows enough to know she needs to learn more, and that's what she's setting out to do.

Second, I AGREED with you that she should look for a group FIRST.

And third, I'm not talking about separating themselves from their character persona, I'm talking about getting greater enjoyment out of the experience by not knowing what is going to happen in- and out-of-character.



And on the intellectual property thing... If you are seriously concerned about it, you wouldn't dm much. Anyone at the game could 'steal' it and claiming it back would be a bitch.

Getting into the habit of giving people your ideas is a bad idea. If these plot ideas are her ideas, she should be the one to implement them. Whether or not intellectual property as a legal matter or just the principle matters to gaming is a subject to be pursued outside of this thread and I will not discuss this further in this thread.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 01:32 PM
Oh, be nice.

Says them man who appearently mashes them.

Bad Situation
2010-07-06, 01:33 PM
Oh, be nice.
This doesn't mean much coming from a guy who mashes them.

EDIT: Blagh, ninja'd by a whole minute.

AtwasAwamps
2010-07-06, 01:34 PM
This doesn't mean much coming from a guy who mashes them.

EDIT: Blagh, ninja'd by a whole minute.

He is obviously talking about the tasty donut treat.

And Umael, I ated it meself. Friendship destroyer!

Dairun Cates
2010-07-06, 01:35 PM
Says them man who appearently mashes them.

What? A small slice of butter, some garlic, maybe a bit of gravy. The cheese is already there. It makes a decent enough dish.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 01:44 PM
He is obviously talking about the tasty donut treat.


And so was I.

It helps greatly if your players are not edible tastey doughnut treats.

Aroka
2010-07-06, 01:45 PM
Well, I was only sorting by when you can upgrade your character... Not what sorts of options you can pick from when you do.

That's my point - you didn't cover it. There's games where you learn by use, games where you learn by training/teaching without any kind of points getting involved, games where you do both, games where you just get to increase skills at certain intervals... and so on.

AtwasAwamps
2010-07-06, 01:47 PM
And so was I.

It helps greatly if your players are not edible tastey doughnut treats.

Debatable, if you're really hungry. Sometimes I wish they were.

Shademan
2010-07-06, 01:59 PM
do you have a group? is so, have any of they played before?

piece of advice: pdf's are great, but get the books. it is MUCH quicker to learn from tham as you can read them when you are going to sleep, taking a baath (just dont drop it!!!!) eating, taking a poop or all of the above.

arrowhen
2010-07-06, 02:08 PM
If you can't sit in on a live game, look for some videos on youtube or elsewhere, just to get a basic idea how an RPG session "feels".

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-06, 02:10 PM
The system is the set of rules you are useing to play the actual game itself. It normaly contains a setting (the world of the game), a statistical set (how you determine random chance (think die rolls)), and a way to determine the abilities of and advance characters (character sheets and leveling).

Now some systems are without one or more of these things, and ways to play without any of them, but I am assuming that you have all three is some manner, and I make a second guess that you ended up here becuse you are running dnd 3.5. Ether way I will give general advice, and then advice specific to DnD 3.5.

Ok, setting. This is the easy part. Read some of the book and make the start of a story. Most writes fail not due to lack of a plot, but lack of flexability. Characters, when shown the option of traveling north, south,east or west will be just as likely to take to the air, or tunnel through the earth. If you can, and it's within the rules, let them. A DM (you) needs to be flexable enough in the story to let the players do the unexpected. Don't be afraid to make them wait for a few min while you figgure out what is caused by what they just did, but try not to say that they simply can't.

Adapt the setting as far as you need to. You can change setting however you wish, but tell the players of any changes. I is a pain if you get halfway into a game and realize that one of the players has a difrent understanding of the game than you.

I repeat, think on your feet and plan characters and motivation rather than events. Things happen, and players do stuff. It is much easier to deal with the players getting into random fights if you know that the town guards are level 3 warriors with a set of stats, rather than having to stop the game and stat them.

Leave the end of the plot open, and even when you decide something remember what the players have been told, so you can change things without telling them. It is very useful to have a flexable plot.

Now Rules.

You need to know the rules. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Now that is not the end of the world. Get your hands on the books and read them. As the DM you really need to read the whole things. If playing DnD, think about restricting the game to just the Players Handbook, Dungon Masters Handbook, and The Monster Manual at first, to cut down your reading list. If you are useing another system, see if you can set up a similer book list to play by.

Play some by yourself. Set up two players at first, then two teams. Play through combat to see how things run. When you feel confident in how combat works let one of your players control one side. See all the dirty tricks he pulls.

Don't let your players suprise you. When you start play look at all of thier sheets with them and ask what does this do, why do you have this ability, and what do you expect your player to do in (combat, social situation, ect). Then play some quick combat with them outside the plot for you to really understand the group dynamics. The group will get better teamwork as time goes on so plan for that. This is a good time to figgure out how hard you have to push the group to threaten them. Try an easy encounter, try a hard one, try throwing them at a pary of equle level (something you should almost never do in game unless your gamers are really better than you at makeing characters.).

Try some difrent types of monsters. Face a mage and his guards in DnD. Face some bandits with bows and swords. Face some orcs with greataxes. Try difrent things and get a good feel for what they can do, and what they can't in a envorment that you won't feel bad if you kill them all. You should try to do that exact thing at least once, just to figgure out what is too far to push them.

Another option is to use a one shot game that won't effect the polt you intend to run on your own. There are some good one sesion DnD games all planed out and ready to run. see if you and find the one with the calzone golem, it's funny.

After that have fun. Listen to your players and have the right books on hand with bookmarks in spots for rules you use oftine, (like combat).

Ok, statistics and advancement. Don't be afraid of them. Follow the books suggestions for rate of advancement. It may seem fast or slow, but as your first time don't be tempted to tamper to much. Let the game settle before you decide that the characters are progressing to fast or slow. See how the game works first.

On that note, for a first time DM, it is oftine best to have your players make thier characters with you for your benifit. Let them talk you through character creation.

Another good idea is to pick up a Co-Dm for a few sesions. You run the plot, and let him help you with and run the encounters. Watch and let him advise you. He will be told some of the plot, but then you can let his enter with a character for himself when you feel ready to take on the whole DM job.

EDIT : epic level swordsaged. GAH!

Dairun Cates
2010-07-06, 02:23 PM
If you can't sit in on a live game, look for some videos on youtube or elsewhere, just to get a basic idea how an RPG session "feels".

Or better yet. Start here (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pod/20090218). Hilarious AND educational.

Lord Loss
2010-07-06, 02:24 PM
The first time I played, I Dmed. For lvl 10 Characters. We had a friggen blast!

Now, it'd be a lie to say that it's that easy. I spent a good month preparing before unleashing the fury. I thought I'd post some tricks I used to start:

1) Study, Study, Study. Read the Player's Handbook and Dungeon Master's guide over and over and over. Simulate combats on grid paper. Make sure you understand everything before starting. Don't be afraid to ask for help from experienced players, or us playgrounders

2) Used a pre-built module. I ran expedition to castle Ravenloft in 2007 (I ran a few games to practice the rules peviously, but this was mt first campaign). For new DMs, they're very, very useful. You can adapt the module you use if you're feeling courageous, but generally don't touch adventure building until after you've played for a while.

3) Keep it Simple! If there are rules you don't understand, like Bull Rushing, for instance, don't use them, or supplement them with a simpler variant.

4) Lower The Bar. I didn't do this the first time, but you ought to use low level pcs the first time. At high levels, characters have an overwhelming number of abilities and it becomes hard to manage them. Also, high levels are hard to challenge. Easy ones, not so much.

5) A Friend in need. I reccomend you co-DM your first game, seeing as an experienced gamer knows the rules and can do you a mountain of good.
Ask your friends if they'll do so, i'm sure someone'll be glad to give you a helping hand.

6) Jot it Down! Take lots of notes about monsters, the adventure, NPCs, magic items, difficult rules- anything really- before, after and during the game. Ask the players what they liked and didn't like about the adventure, the session, etc.

Aroka
2010-07-06, 02:31 PM
The first time I played, I Dmed. For lvl 10 Characters. We had a friggen blast!

There's some weird notion people shouldn't DM unless they're good with the game. It's complete nonsense. From age 10 to age 15, I ran games and got more than half the rules wrong, even in red-box D&D. Everyone had fun, no one complained (mostly because no one else could be assed to even begin reading the rules). It didn't stop me from learning the rules of games to the point that I am now able to be completely anal about them if I choose.

I really wouldn't recommend using a module if she feels her creativeness is her strength, though. Play to that strength. You can play RPGs with very little use of the actual rules, especially if you've got a great plot driven by characters and choices.

Lord Loss
2010-07-06, 02:36 PM
There's some weird notion people shouldn't DM unless they're good with the game. It's complete nonsense. From age 10 to age 15, I ran games and got more than half the rules wrong, even in red-box D&D. Everyone had fun, no one complained (mostly because no one else could be assed to even begin reading the rules). It didn't stop me from learning the rules of games to the point that I am now able to be completely anal about them if I choose.

I really wouldn't recommend using a module if she feels her creativeness is her strength, though. Play to that strength. You can play RPGs with very little use of the actual rules, especially if you've got a great plot driven by characters and choices.

I think she should use a module for the encounters, so that they're balanced, but she can add to them, reaarange them and completely scrap the proposed story in favor of her own.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 02:48 PM
Or better yet. Start here (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pod/20090218). Hilarious AND educational.

WHEEEAAATOOOOONNNNN!!!!

Munchkin-Masher
2010-07-06, 02:50 PM
I think she should use a module for the encounters, so that they're balanced, but she can add to them, reaarange them and completely scrap the proposed story in favor of her own.

The first game i DMed i used a Module but altered it heavily, it really made it easyer to make interessting fights with out the balance being wildly incongrous.

AtwasAwamps
2010-07-06, 02:56 PM
Or better yet. Start here (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pod/20090218). Hilarious AND educational.

Agreed. It's not 3.5, but it is fun.

Optimator
2010-07-06, 03:06 PM
I would not recommend DMing to ANYONE who hasn't played several (at least!) sessions and have a firm grip of the actual game rules. Getting comfortable with the rules will make the DMing process a lot easier. Leaves more brainpower to worry about multi-tasking and the plot rather than the mechanical parts.

Lord Vampyre
2010-07-06, 03:46 PM
If this is your first campaign, make your players stick to the first 3 core books. It will simplify things for you. The other books are nice, but have a lot of conflicting/alternative rules. Also, make them start at first level. The world makes so much more sense at first level than it does at 20th.

I would also suggest running a module. It will help give you an idea of power level. If you do choose to run your own adventures right in the beginning, remember to give your players an out, they may just need it.

I know you said that you love to just jump into things. That's fine, but take the time to learn what your going to be throwing at them. Some creature, like Dragons, will be highly underpowered if you don't take into account some of their special abilities, i.e. flying.

Like many others have said relax and have fun. Those are probably the most important ingredients.

Lord Loss
2010-07-06, 03:50 PM
If this is your first campaign, make your players stick to the first 3 core books. It will simplify things for you. The other books are nice, but have a lot of conflicting/alternative rules. Also, make them start at first level. The world makes so much more sense at first level than it does at 20th.

I would also suggest running a module. It will help give you an idea of power level. If you do choose to run your own adventures right in the beginning, remember to give your players an out, they may just need it.

I know you said that you love to just jump into things. That's fine, but take the time to learn what your going to be throwing at them. Some creature, like Dragons, will be highly underpowered if you don't take into account some of their special abilities, i.e. flying.

Like many others have said relax and have fun. Those are probably the most important ingredients.

I fully agree with this.

Bagelz
2010-07-06, 04:13 PM
There are some very good suggestions in this thread.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/MS_HeroesHesiod.pdf
Is a primer - its targeted at little kids, but you get the point pretty well.

for weapons and most monster combat anyhow. Spells in 3.5 are a whole other ballgame.

I think World of Darkness is a better system for intricate plots (it is not as centrally focused on combat).

mechanically
DnD 3.5 and 4e is mostly roll a d20 and add some stuff and see if it is bigger than your target.
World of Darkness is mostly roll a number of d10, count how many are greater than 6, and compare to a target number.
other systems include roll d% and looking up results on a chart, or rolling d6's and counting the number of 5s and 6s,

Traveler
2010-07-06, 05:20 PM
Most of the good advice has been given already, but I'll toss in my 2 cp (probably only being an echo).

1: The most important part: Read the Player's Handbook ,Dungeon Master's guide, and the Monster Manuel. Take time and learn the rules, combat being the hardest to learn (or remember). Don't like a rule? Change it or take it out all together. Just give your players heads up.

2: The most important part: Don't be afraid to ask for help. You are new to this as a whole and your players should understand.

3: The most important part: Preperation is required, but not to be over done. Essentially monsters, adventure areas, and important things are about the only things that may need actual stats. The tavern keeper shouldn't, the farmer shouldn't, the goblins raiding the village should. The Monster manual should cover most of this without much more on your part then copy and past onto notes, unless you want to make NPC's yourself like villians or that guy that just walked off with the fighter's money.

4: The most important part: Players will rarly follow your plan. If you look around this forum enough you will find examples of this. My players best example of this was taking 30 evil spawn eggs and hatching/raising/training them. It was supposed to be a simple stop evil things before they hatch, but nooooo. Had to go and train them for a mini army.

5; Truly the most important part: Relax a bit. If you can't find a rule on the spot, make it up. Players arn't likely to make a fuss of this.

Last minute notes. Generally, the higher the roll the better, the lower the worse, kobold lairs are filled more traps then you can shake your +2 sword at, there is always more room jello of the cube veriety, wishes are tricky evil things, and just because the players can do something they will.

Good Luck. If you need help, the people on this forum know what they are talking about.