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View Full Version : Updated Dark Creature template in FR book


hamishspence
2010-07-06, 04:16 PM
One of the things I noticed about the Dark Creature template in Tome of Magic was, it didn't specify if the character needs cover or concealment or not.

Which generally means, that it does need it unless proven otherwise.

However, in the Realms-specific splatbook Cormyr- Tearing of the Weave an updated version of the template is provided which explicitly spells out that you do not need cover or concealment to use Hide in Plain Sight.

Does this make the template a bit more worth it's +1 LA? (ignoring the magic item that grants the template).
Jorda75
2010-07-06, 04:22 PM
I might tack on an extra +1 but really I don't see it as much of a game breaker so much as a cool ability. Cover isn't usually that hard to find and a DM would most likely have to set up an encounter in a specific place to avoid the creature finding some form of concealment.
hamishspence
2010-07-06, 04:25 PM
I enjoyed playing my Dark Elf (not Drow) Swordsage in an Eberron game- but having to move behind walls to make Hide checks was a bit limiting.

Being able to hide anywhere, might have made for a harder to kill character (he was a bit fragile).
Fax Celestis
2010-07-06, 04:30 PM
It's probably copypasta failure. The Dark template in ToM is probably fine.
hamishspence
2010-07-06, 04:33 PM
Nope- every single creature with the template in Cormyr, has the same "even in areas with no cover or concealment" line.

I think the writers of the splatbook wanted to beef the template up just a little.
Optimystik
2010-07-06, 04:44 PM
Was Cormyr printed later? I'd go with that one.

Although I might only take away the need for one or the other. (Cover or concealment, not both.)
The Cat Goddess
2010-07-06, 04:46 PM
Was Cormyr printed later? I'd go with that one.

Although I might only take away the need for one or the other. (Cover or concealment, not both.)

Well... Cover is Concealment. Just not the other way around. :smallbiggrin:
hamishspence
2010-07-06, 04:51 PM
Was Cormyr printed later? I'd go with that one.


It was.

The question is- if it's a fix to the template- does it make it a bit more competitive (compensating for the fact that it's not an Extraordinary ability) or does it make the template just a little too good for LA +1?
Gametime
2010-07-06, 05:43 PM
Well... Cover is Concealment. Just not the other way around. :smallbiggrin:

No, it isn't. They're distinct, mechanically and flavorfully. Either will suffice for a Hide check, though.
The Cat Goddess
2010-07-06, 05:49 PM
No, it isn't. They're distinct, mechanically and flavorfully. Either will suffice for a Hide check, though.

Everything that Concealment provides, is also provided by Cover. Cover just provides additional benefits.
Gametime
2010-07-06, 06:06 PM
Everything that Concealment provides, is also provided by Cover. Cover just provides additional benefits.

No, it doesn't. Here's what Cover gives:


EFFECTS OF COVER
Cover grants you a +4 bonus to AC, as well as a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Spread effects extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus.

And here's what Concealment gives:


EFFECTS OF CONCEALMENT
Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. If the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to avoid being struck.

They are similar, but not identical, and not even overlapping.