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Mater
2010-07-06, 05:05 PM
Hey guys, prepare for the really dumb question. It sounds weird but I was unable to find a decent prestige class for my fighter. Neither in any book I posses nor on the internet. So I ask you is there a good prestige class for a fighter with his trusty greatsword? I was thinking about weapon master but it has been messed up in 3.5 into several stupid classes which I cant relate to sadly :-( I was also thinking about something rather offensive. Please suggest something I might have missed. Thanks

Mater

Note: Because of the DM issues I cannot multiclass, so only prestige classes please.

EvilJoe15
2010-07-06, 05:06 PM
Ur-priest. Go DMM crazy.

Marriclay
2010-07-06, 05:06 PM
We need more build info! We must know the ins and outs of this character's set up!
Ur-priest. Go DMM crazy.
Doesn't that require some connection to the divine to begin with? Besides, most DMs won't allow players to use BoVD and many simply hate Ur-Priest players

Dusk Eclipse
2010-07-06, 05:08 PM
it depends in what you want to do, and your current feat set up, maybe even race.

For example Warforged Juggernaut is a good prestige class, but you need to be a warforged to take it

I think a straight fighter can prestige into Dervish (CWar) but that class is specifically for Dual wielders..... I am sorry I can't be of more help

EvilJoe15
2010-07-06, 05:10 PM
No it doesn't, just Spell Focus(Evil), and Iron Will. Don't need to be a caster to take Spell Focus. And it's in C. Divine.

Mater
2010-07-06, 05:12 PM
Oh fast replies. So some additional info. It is gestalt fighter/rogue. For rogue I have dread commando which is quite brilliant, but after that I need something for the fighter, because bonus feats from fighter feel a little redundant.
It will not be an evil campaign so only good or neutral...
If the class would have a little of the ranger feeling I wouldnt mind, but I must have Pre's from fighter side only whitch is a little problem. Also I would appreciate some deeper weapon specialization as I suggested with that weapon master.
Yes I know I am demanding and picky but thats just me guys so bear with me please :-)

tyckspoon
2010-07-06, 05:13 PM
Exotic Weapon Master isn't too bad (go Bastard Sword, wield it two-handed, apply the Exotic Weapon Master abilities to it. You lose a couple points average damage on the dice, which is utterly meaningless by the time you can take the class.) And the 3.0/Neverwinter Nights version of Weapon Master is decent, nevermind what the book says about EWM being the official update of it- they are very clearly completely different classes.

I'm not aware of any generally-good PrCs for Fighters, unfortunately, not in the way you can always suggest Master Specialist or Fatespinner or Loremaster or Archmage or.. well, you get the idea. Most of the better martial classes are aimed at gishes and/or have skill requirements that are really, really rough on a straight-classed Fighter.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 05:17 PM
EWM with Spiked Chain = Win

Suel Arcanamach/Dragon Disciple

Hmm.... But the best fighter prestige class of all time has got to be...

CANCER MAGE!

Krazddndfreek
2010-07-06, 05:17 PM
Well, before PrCs, you can't go wrong with a Barbarian dip. Well that would have been a good idea :smallannoyed:

Ahh, but its gestalt, this fixes things slightly. So maybe instead of taking fighter, be a wizard or another caster? Then you could go into Unseen Seer later if you want. Although does your DM understand that you can't have two PrCs at once? Or his he just houseruling it away?

EDIT: Or if you're bent on fighter, then the TWF route is not a bad one, since you've got rogue on the other side. Maybe prestige into Dervish like that guy said, or Tempest to alleviate the penalties?

Mater
2010-07-06, 05:17 PM
And the 3.0/Neverwinter Nights version of Weapon Master is decent, nevermind what the book says about EWM being the official update of it- they are very clearly completely different classes.

I'm not aware of any generally-good PrCs for Fighters, unfortunately, not in the way you can always suggest Master Specialist or Fatespinner or Loremaster or Archmage or.. well, you get the idea. Most of the better martial classes are aimed at gishes and/or have skill requirements that are really, really rough on a straight-classed Fighter.

1)Yes he is decent but my DM will not allow him sadly :-(

2)Yes thats why I made this thread, but I am willing to soak some cross class point from rogue side if I will be really without a choice...I dont like it though...

Saya
2010-07-06, 05:19 PM
Depends really on what you want to do, and how long you expect to go with it.

In all honestly, you can do something as silly as going Master Thrower, then enchanting a greatsword or two with throwing and returning properties, and simply go nuts from there.

Mater
2010-07-06, 05:21 PM
Well, before PrCs, you can't go wrong with a Barbarian dip. Well that would have been a good idea :smallannoyed:

Ahh, but its gestalt, this fixes things slightly. So maybe instead of taking fighter, be a wizard or another caster? Then you could go into Unseen Seer later if you want. Although does your DM understand that you can't have two PrCs at once? Or his he just houseruling it away?

Well as I understand it you can but only one PC per gestalt level which I will obey so there should not be a problem with this. Second I already have a wizard in my party so that would be a little redundant...also I should have mentioned that rogue is wildeneress rogue variant from unearthed arcana and he would be a ranger type...(not ranger because I wanted to play him with two-haneded weapon)...

Mater
2010-07-06, 05:23 PM
Depends really on what you want to do, and how long you expect to go with it.

In all honestly, you can do something as silly as going Master Thrower, then enchanting a greatsword or two with throwing and returning properties, and simply go nuts from there.

Well it may seen odd but we are also a little concerned about the RP side of the class so DM would not allow a construct like this and frankly I would not wanna play it, but Thanks for the tip :-) :-)

Optimystik
2010-07-06, 05:27 PM
Doesn't that require some connection to the divine to begin with?

Not only does it not require such a connection, the class actively discourages it. But I wouldn't consider that a "Fighter PrC" anyway.

To answer the OP - I would recommend Kensai and/or Incarnum Blade.

Krazddndfreek
2010-07-06, 05:40 PM
Kensai would be pretty good I was going to say.

@Mater: You could honestly be a Mystic Ranger instead. You'd get spellcasting, and you could qualify for Dread Commando without the fighter. Also I'm fairly confident that you could be a gestalt wizard without stepping on the other guy's toes. But it's your character. The ability to cast invisibility and wraithstrike without relying on scrolls should be pretty tempting though.:smallwink:

Mater
2010-07-06, 05:42 PM
Not only does it not require such a connection, the class actively discourages it. But I wouldn't consider that a "Fighter PrC" anyway.

To answer the OP - I would recommend Kensai and/or Incarnum Blade.

Well just finished looking at that incarnum blade and it looks interesting. Abilities are not so stunningly awesome but it is interesting. I would have to thing hard to put him in the place in my RP profile though. Kensai is ok but we dont use XPs so it would be little problematic.

its almost 1am here so see ya guys tomorrow... :-)

Keld Denar
2010-07-06, 05:50 PM
Occult Slayer is a fun little 5 level PrC that is pretty easy to get into. You probably already have Weapon Focus and Improved Init. The capstone is perma-Mind Blank, which makes 2.5 schools of magic cry in the corner. The other abilities are so-so, but can be useful.

Pious Templar is another staple for my melee characters. It gives some bonus feats, a splash of Paladin spellcasting (which is nice if use look up Pally spells in Spell Compendium and Complete Champion), and Mettle. All while keeping full BAB. Requires a crappy feat to get into, but it sounds like you have feats to spare.

A decent late entry spellcaster PrC is Suel Arcanamach. You need +6 BAB to get in, which you should have. Get in and hope back out into a PrC like Abjurant Champion. In fact, Suel1/AbjChamp5/Spellsword1/Suel+3 is a pretty solid 10 level investment that gives you some REALLY good combat utility with Abjuration and Illusion's defensive capabilities and Transmutation's offensive buffs. Abjurant Champion even fixes your low Caster Level issues, allowing you to compete at nearly full capacity! It has its own spellcasting capabilities that progress pretty quickly. You aren't gonna shatter the universe with Wish, but you can pick up your own source of Enlarge Person, Haste, Fly, POLYMORPH, Bite of the Wereboar, Greater Mirror Image, etc, to take some of the burden of buffing you off the party mage.

Darth Stabber
2010-07-06, 06:36 PM
Horizon Walker is about the best in core (Says something about fighters in core, there are no prcs for them, but they can bend over backwards and get into a mediocre ranger prc.).

I don't remember the prereqs for Slayer(srd) being so bad, and if you sneak a level of any manifesting class in there, you will enjoy it more.

Corrupt avenger (HoH) is easy to get into (it's been my experience that GMs don't mind tainting their players, even if the taint rules are not being used, and no one else will be subjected to them), as is Death Delver(same) (not finagling, just you need to almost die, and a few mild skill requirements.

suel arcanamach(CA) always comes up and is really good.

There are a few other PRCs that give a modest spell progression that you may want to look into, but I can't think of any off hand, check the complete series.

EDIT: I can't read and you GM is a jerk for the no multi-class thing, and you should not have picked fighter, psiwar maybe.

herrhauptmann
2010-07-06, 07:06 PM
Occult slayer, doesn't that tend to get a lot of flak for not actually being good at killing casters?
There is the Witchslayer from ToM, an antibinder warrior. Check with your DM, some regular sorc/wiz/cleric spells could count for the class abilities. Also grants Mettle I believe.
Take the mageslayer feat tree, and OS or WS get that much better.
Since your DM allows ACFs, are you aware that there's a few other ranger weapon styles lying around in a dragon magazine? Grappling, mounted, thrown weapon, and Two Handed weapon. That'll give you the ranger flavor you want, and make hitting horizon walker very easy.

If you've got mettle, there's an item in Complete champion which will upgrade Mettle to Improved Mettle (like improved evasion). Shirt slot I believe.

Keld Denar
2010-07-06, 07:40 PM
Occult Slayer is actually better at NOT getting killed by wizards than actually killing them. About the only offensive ability they get is Weapon Bond, for an extra +1d6 vs foes with spells or spell-like abilities. Viscious Strike is a joke, and should never ever be used. If you read Mind over Magic as an Immediate action (since it doesn't make much sense as a free action, but CWarrior predates swift/immediate actions), its kinda an offensive ability, and the idea of reflecting a Finger of Death back on a 32 Int, 10 Con Grey Elf Wizard is hillarious, but in practicality, a smart caster wouldn't be targetting your fort save and most things that are targeted (non-attack roll) that target your Will, you'll be immune to thanks to Mind Blank, and the caster would probably make the will save easily anyway. Plus, reflecting a Dominate or similar just gives the caster control over himself, instead of giving you control over him.

What IS really good for killing casters is being able to do enough damage to 1-shot them IF you can pierce their protections, and then naturally being able to pierce their protections. The former is pretty easy with 2handed Power Attack, and Pierce Magical Concealment works well on the latter. Just get some flight and/or some swift action teleports and pray your target doesn't have 2 dozen carefully worded contingencies waiting for you.

nedz
2010-07-06, 07:43 PM
Its a shame you can't add more base classes.

Horizon Walker for some interesting abilities, as mentioned by others.

Prestige Ranger (from UA)

Racial Paragon class

true_shinken
2010-07-06, 07:54 PM
While Weapon Master was updated in 3.0, Kensei from Oriental Adventures is nearly the same but wasn't; Dragon 318 updates OA and does not even mention it. You could go with Kensei.
Note, though, that by RAW you can't have a PrC on each side of gestalt.

Gametime
2010-07-06, 08:11 PM
If you read Mind over Magic as an Immediate action (since it doesn't make much sense as a free action, but CWarrior predates swift/immediate actions), its kinda an offensive ability, and the idea of reflecting a Finger of Death back on a 32 Int, 10 Con Grey Elf Wizard is hillarious, but in practicality, a smart caster wouldn't be targetting your fort save and most things that are targeted (non-attack roll) that target your Will, you'll be immune to thanks to Mind Blank, and the caster would probably make the will save easily anyway. Plus, reflecting a Dominate or similar just gives the caster control over himself, instead of giving you control over him.


It can be nifty for the tricksy wizards that use the occasional Reflex-or-suck, which are usually effective against fighters but also a bitch to have reflected back at you.

Keld Denar
2010-07-06, 08:16 PM
The only non-AoE, non-attack roll Reflex Save vs Suck I can think of is Bands of Steel from the Spell Compendium. Its...3rd level. Yea, sucks.

DragoonWraith
2010-07-06, 08:23 PM
The only non-AoE, non-attack roll Reflex Save vs Suck I can think of is Bands of Steel from the Spell Compendium. Its...3rd level. Yea, sucks.
...that spell got our Warforged Crusader killed a few weeks ago...

Gametime
2010-07-06, 10:28 PM
The only non-AoE, non-attack roll Reflex Save vs Suck I can think of is Bands of Steel from the Spell Compendium. Its...3rd level. Yea, sucks.

There's also a Spellwarp Sniper'd Wings of Flurry, which allows no save at all. A corner case, admittedly, but still nice to have a defense against it.

Optimystik
2010-07-06, 10:36 PM
There's also a Spellwarp Sniper'd Wings of Flurry, which allows no save at all. A corner case, admittedly, but still nice to have a defense against it.

Spellwarp turns spells into rays, which have attack rolls.

Hail of Stone has no save, no SR and no attack roll IIRC - but it's an area spell.

Keld Denar
2010-07-06, 10:52 PM
There's also a Spellwarp Sniper'd Wings of Flurry, which allows no save at all. A corner case, admittedly, but still nice to have a defense against it.

Since it has an attack roll, its not targeted. Since its not targetted, it can't be spell reflected. So....yea, my point still stands.

You'd need Ray Deflection to counter a SWS's Wings of Flurry. Occult Slayer won't save your life.

Mater
2010-07-07, 07:06 AM
Ok guys thanks very much for all your recommendations. I must admit I was looking at that occult slayer before but I did not like the feel of it. Horizon walker on the other hand feels nice but since my DM may finaly said yes to 3rd edition weapon master I will probably pick him. So thanks again for all your help...if he will not allow him after all I might bother you again so sorry in advance :-P :-)

true_shinken
2010-07-07, 08:20 AM
Since it has an attack roll, its not targeted. Since its not targetted, it can't be spell reflected. So....yea, my point still stands.

You'd need Ray Deflection to counter a SWS's Wings of Flurry. Occult Slayer won't save your life.

Ray-WoF still has a Reflex save for the dazing effect.

Boci
2010-07-07, 08:24 AM
Ray-WoF still has a Reflex save for the dazing effect.

Spellwarp sniper? Reflex save becomes a touch attack.

Person_Man
2010-07-07, 09:10 AM
My recommendations:

Ninja Spy: Sneak Attack, Improved Evasion, Hide in Plain Site, +20 Tumble/Jump/Climb/Balance, at will continuous Alter Self (very abusable), and other minor perks. Oriental Adventures.
Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633): One level gets you proficiency with every exotic weapon, which opens up all sorts of tactics.
Ashworm Dragoon: One of the best mounted PrC, you get a poisonous burrowing worm to ride that improves with your levels, unlimited Mount Combat uses per round (essentially preventing melee damage to your mount), Pounce, and the ability to Burrow with your mount. Sandstorm.
Hellreaver: Probably the best self healing tank out there. This PrC gets immunity to Fear, Mettle, and the ability to heal 10/20/30 hit points (depending on your level) to yourself or any Good ally within 10 feet every round of combat as a Swift action pretty much every round of combat (that youíre not using Test of Mettle or some other Immediate/Swift Action). Fiendish Codex II.
Justicar: They might as well just call this PrC ďHogtie.Ē This ability letís you tie up a Pinned opponent with a Use Rope check (ridiculously easy to boost), rendering them helpless. At 8th level you can do it without having to pin his opponent. This is a one trick pony, and you donít see the real benefits of the class until ECL 11+. But itís a darn potent trick. Complete Warrior.
Kensai: A 10th level Kensai can get two (or more) +10 weapons for a very reasonable xp cost. That by itself is pretty powerful, and frees up a ton of cash that you can invest in various defensive magic items. In addition, you get the ability to replace Ref Saves with Concentration checks (easy to boost), and a +8 untyped bonus to Str whenever you make a Concentration check (ie, whenever you want). He can also gets a nifty boosts to several Skills, including Intimidate, which opens up some good Demoralize options. Finally, a Kensai can transfer some or all of his BAB and/or Saves to a willing ally. My suggestion is that you team up with a more offensive party member and transfer as much of your BAB to him as possible, have somebody cast Shield Other, fight defensively, Demoralize enemies, and act as a damage sponge as your friend slaughters everyone. If youíre feeling particularly cheesy, buy a Skillful weapon enhancement (Comp Arcane) to boost your BAB back up to 3/4 your character level. The one downside to the PrC is that it lacks full BAB. But if youíre willing to fully embrace your defensive role, thatís not a problem. Complete Warrior pg 52.
War Hulk: Gains no BAB (but who cares about that in gestalt!), but gets +2 Str per level, and various very useful abilities. If played strait and combined with something like Dungeoncrasher + Knockback, itís a very powerful PrC. Requires Large or bigger size (ie, +2 LA for Half-Ogre, or back door magical options). Miniatures Handbook pg 23.
More Fighter!: With the right alternate class features, Fighter is actually a playable choice up to level 11ish.


Is campaign specific material (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, etc) available? If so, that opens up more options.

Gametime
2010-07-07, 09:23 AM
Since it has an attack roll, its not targeted. Since its not targetted, it can't be spell reflected. So....yea, my point still stands.

You'd need Ray Deflection to counter a SWS's Wings of Flurry. Occult Slayer won't save your life.

Since it has a ray, it's not targeted, you're right. Not sure how I missed that. Are you sure spells with attack rolls are automatically non-targeted? Because I'm looking at Viscid Glob, now, and it has a "Target" entry but requires an attack roll to hit. Which is... bizarre, since flavor-wise it's almost identical to the Orb spells, but it lacks an "Effect" entry as well.

Aside from that, Wingbind and Word of Binding (for wizards who snag Prestige Paladin somehow for Combat Blessing, I guess?) are both eligible reflex-or-sucks. They're corner cases, admittedly, but I already said it wasn't a very common application - just a nice one.

Keld Denar
2010-07-07, 10:31 AM
Eh, I guess not EVERY spell with an attack roll, apparently. Its wierd, because most spells are one or the other. If its targeted, you can't use it on someone with full concealment, but if it has an attack roll you can "spray and pray", or "spray and prey" as a previous thread put it, hoping you make the 50% miss chance and the target is in the line of effect you choose, even if its not in the exact square you thought.

You can only spell reflect spells with a Target: line, and most spells with a ranged touch attack roll don't have a target line, they have an effect line. Apparently some are both.

Gametime
2010-07-07, 12:20 PM
Eh, I guess not EVERY spell with an attack roll, apparently. Its wierd, because most spells are one or the other. If its targeted, you can't use it on someone with full concealment, but if it has an attack roll you can "spray and pray", or "spray and prey" as a previous thread put it, hoping you make the 50% miss chance and the target is in the line of effect you choose, even if its not in the exact square you thought.

You can only spell reflect spells with a Target: line, and most spells with a ranged touch attack roll don't have a target line, they have an effect line. Apparently some are both.

Yeah, there are a few spells that I suspect are just the result of poor editing or poor grasp of the rules. I agree that it really shouldn't have a Target line if it requires an attack.

There's also the occasional spell called "Ray of ___" that doesn't actually produce a ray, which is also confusing and bizarre.

Ormagoden
2010-07-07, 12:28 PM
Oh fast replies. So some additional info. It is gestalt fighter/rogue. For rogue I have dread commando which is quite brilliant, but after that I need something for the fighter, because bonus feats from fighter feel a little redundant.
It will not be an evil campaign so only good or neutral...
If the class would have a little of the ranger feeling I wouldnt mind, but I must have Pre's from fighter side only whitch is a little problem. Also I would appreciate some deeper weapon specialization as I suggested with that weapon master.
Yes I know I am demanding and picky but thats just me guys so bear with me please :-)


I think I have the perfect solution, look upon the wonders of Unearthed Arcana and meet the Prestige Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeRanger)

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-07-07, 12:37 PM
The trouble with prestige ranger would be the spellcasting requirements, which I don't think the OP meets.

I'd like to add another +1 to Horizon Walker, it can really help in adding some supernatural fizz to your fighter. Also, have you looked at Shadow Dancer? HiPS is very useful, and you can get it with a one level dip. More useful for your Rogue side, but you can probably meet the prereqs with your fighter side, and it will boost your overall effectiveness.

Quirp
2010-07-07, 12:39 PM
You could consider War Mind (XPH) for some psionic powers and sweeping strike.