PDA

View Full Version : 3.5 Challange: Kill a Neutronium Golem



VestigeArcanist
2010-07-06, 06:11 PM
Given adequate preparation and 20 ECL to play with, destroy this {Scrubbed}[/color] Neutronium Golem ([color=red). This was found via innocent wanderings through the tubes of the internet. this thing is impossibly huge and powerful, and has a CR of 9721. I want to see if it can be done in twenty.

Build:
Race
Class/Class/PrC
Feats
Skills (if necessary)

Min/maxing notes:

Prefight preparation: Include amount of time need beforehand

Tactics in combat:

How to kill the Neutronium Golem:

How to survive Neutronium Golem's attack: (if you lose initiative or it takes more than one round to kill the Big Bad NG)

How to survive death throes:

How to save everybody else in the solar system (if possible): Hey, it may not be possible. The annihilation of all life on the planet maybe an acceptable casualty.

It will be easy to say "my level 20 wizard plane shifts to a plane of my own creation where I blah blah blah." Being ingenious and audacious is more then acceptable, and figuring a killer build or combo is the hope for this thought exercise. The greatest theorists will be acknowledged and celebrated.

Optimystik
2010-07-06, 06:14 PM
It has stats, it can be killed.

I would flag any links to 1d4chan as being NSFW.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-06, 06:14 PM
Pun-Pun. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869366/The_most_powerful_character._EVER.)

To answer your other questions: By being Pun-Pun. That should answer all of them.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 06:16 PM
The Melee Solution:

Say it with me now.

Iron! Heart! Surge!


The Caster Solution:

Need to get immunity to dying somehow.

Edit: Got it, shall use Timeless Body.

Edit: Or Delay Death + Beastland Ferocity... but I like my way better. Cause I thought of it.

EvilJoe15
2010-07-06, 06:21 PM
Let's see... An Incantatrix inside a Persisted Time Stop with a contingent Celerity to Teleport/Plane Shift away when it dies.

SurlySeraph
2010-07-06, 06:39 PM
Non-Magical Ranged Solution

Hulking Hurler. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873078/Hulking_Hurler_build?pg=89)

Flob
2010-07-06, 06:43 PM
Put every caster in the universe into a portable hole (after shrinking them down of course), get them in range of the demonic-robot, and have them all cast magic missile at it at once whilest you open the portable hole. That thing didn't have spell resistance, right?

Prodan
2010-07-06, 06:43 PM
Put every caster in the universe into a portable hole (after shrinking them down of course), get them in range of the demonic-robot, and have them all cast magic missile at it at once whilest you open the portable hole. That thing didn't have spell resistance, right?

No, it had Spell Immunity.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-06, 06:47 PM
Edit: Got it. The Psionic Power Timeless Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm). Just need to slap it on a Sorcerer somehow and we're all set.

Spell To Power Erudite?

Shadowleaf
2010-07-06, 06:48 PM
Look at its stat line:
S:502, D:9, Cn:-, I:-, W:11, Ch:1

If that's not a weak spot, I don't know what is.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 06:51 PM
Spell To Power Erudite?

Or if I invest enough in UPD... it's cross class, but if Giacomo's Joke monk can do it for UMD, I should be able to pull it off as well - and hell, Charisma's the sorcerer's main stat!

Limited Wish -> Psychic Reformation, here we come!

The Glyphstone
2010-07-06, 06:52 PM
How does it have Int -, but be capable of the independent action described in the text?

Oh, right, because the Immortals Handbook isn't actually a sourcebook, just the results of monkeys banging ontypewriters calculators for an indeterminate but non-infinite time.

Eldariel
2010-07-06, 06:58 PM
So wait: All you need to do is to be immune to damage and death effects and it can't affect you? That's pretty damn pathetic. And all you need to do is to deal ~2.5 million damage to kill it? Who the hell even cares? As for Death Throes? Just fight it in an area walled off with Force Walls. Nothing it does penetrates Walls of Force so it'll just implode when it dies.

The thing is only big numbers. It's trivial.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 07:00 PM
Alright, so...

Here's my submission:


Build:
Race: Human
Class/Class/PrC: Sorcerer 20; prestige classes not required.
Feats: Violate Spell (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Violate_Spell), Sanctum Spell (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Sanctum_Spell), Arcane Preparation; Possibly Craft: Contingency.
Skills (if necessary): Cross class ranks in Use Psionc Device

Min/maxing notes: Requires an infinite damage loop and vile damage. If the Contingency spell does not apply to you after UPDing Timeless Body, use the Craft: Contingency feat.

Prefight preparation: A few rounds, aside from the time needed to locate the Golem.

Tactics in combat:

Plan of action:

Round 1: Cast Time Stop (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/timestop.htm).

Round 2: Cast Astral Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm).

Round 3: Go Ethereal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/etherealness.htm). Cast Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Teleportgreater.htm). You are now where you want to be, but on the Ethereal Plane (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm), which overlaps with the Material Plane. Get next to the sucker victim target.

Round 4: UPD a power stone of Timeless Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm), with assistance from Moment of Prescience (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm). You pop into existence since you can no longer benefit from Etheralness and get the drop on the golem. Pun intended.

Round 5: Surprise round. Cast Force Cage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forcecage.htm) around the two of you. Have a Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) set to go off for this situation, triggering Arcane Fusion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99491). Initiate an infinite damage loop with a prepared Sanctum Arcane Fusion and a prepared, Vile Acid Splash, a level 0 spell in a level 1 slot. You get to launch a no save, no SR attack at the golem, and trigger the Arcane Fusion again. Repeat recursively until the thing is dead, since acid damage bypasses DR, harness, and Vile damage can only be healed by magic cast within the area of a consecrate or hallow spell. (BoVD p. 34)

Round 6: ???

Round 7: Profit

How to kill the Neutronium Golem: Sanctum Spell Arcane Fusion Lesser Orb of Acid Infinite Damage Loop.

How to survive Neutronium Golem's attack: (if you lose initiative or it takes more than one round to kill the Big Bad NG): Timeless Body, assuming it gets to attack.

How to survive death throes: Timeless Body. Astral Projection if that fails.

How to save everybody else in the solar system (if possible): Force Cage. It can't be destroyed via damage. Nothing gets in, nothing gets out.

Lycanthropmancer brings up a good point: does the Force Cage get disintegrated when the death throes happen. Well, since the Disintegrate spell is consumed in the process of destroying a Force Cage, I would assume that the dying explosion is as well. Alternatively, it could destroy the Force Cage and escape like some sort of crazy fireball. If it works like that, I'd have to use a different setup to keep it contained.

We could use Lycanthropomancer's idea of taking levels in Archmage for Mastery of Shaping, pick up the Sudden Widen Spell metamagic feat, and cast a Widened, Shaped Prismatic Sphere around the two. When the golem dies, the Prismatic Sphere survives the explosion and keeps everything contained.

Stick a fork in him, he's done.

Tinydwarfman
2010-07-06, 07:13 PM
Bah!
1. Get Immunity to damage (I like the Delay Death combo)
2. Get both of you into a safe space (oh look at all those force spells)
3. Infinite/alot of damage! (many many MANY ways to do this)
4. ???
5. Realize how you just got trolled by /tg/ users.

Eldariel
2010-07-06, 07:16 PM
Huh. Did anyone actually ever proofread this thing? Its Immunity to Magic is utterly lame! "A neutronium golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance." Hello, Supernatural Spell? Tho Construct Immunities help it somewhat. Still...

And yeah, all you need to do is to e.g. become immune to damage (Shapechange+anything, Trollform+Favor of the Martyr, Delay Death+Beastland Ferocity, take your pick) and either take 20 on the saves (e.g. Surge of Fortune), become immune to it or just pump your saves high enough (given we can easily achieve arbitrary stats, this is not a very interesting challenge and as such, left to the reader).

It would be a legal target for PAO so just to make it fail that save; it shouldn't really be all that difficult given it's not immune to natural 1s. Firing 20 PAOs in one turn would give you a decent chance. Alternatively, bypass the save somehow. It'd make a nice 250 HD Toad. Then you can Whack-The-Toad.

Boci
2010-07-06, 07:18 PM
No, it had Spell Immunity.

With I believe mechanically is just infinite spell resistence, so it could argued that if you can auto overcome SR, you can overcome spell immunity. Or something like that. I forget the exact argument.


Huh. Did anyone actually ever proofread this thing? Its Immunity to Magic is utterly lame! "A neutronium golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance." Hello, Supernatural Spell? Tho Construct Immunities help it somewhat. Still...

And yeah, all you need to do is to e.g. become immune to damage (Shapechange+anything, Trollform+Favor of the Martyr, Delay Death+Beastland Ferocity, take your pick) and either take 20 on the saves (e.g. Surge of Fortune), become immune to it or just pump your saves high enough (given we can easily achieve arbitrary stats, this is not a very interesting challenge and as such, left to the reader).

It would be a legal target for PAO so just to make it fail that save; it shouldn't really be all that difficult given it's not immune to natural 1s. Firing 20 PAOs in one turn would give you a decent chance. Alternatively, bypass the save somehow. It'd make a nice 250 HD Toad. Then you can Whack-The-Toad.

Still not as bad as the turtle from discworld with a triple/quadtrouple digit CR, 2 inteligence, no SR or immunity to state drain.

nedz
2010-07-06, 07:25 PM
According to the article taking out a planet is easier.


(an Earth-sized planet would have roughly 122,880 hp)


If its just an elemental can you not simply take control of it ?
Ed: Its a Golem sorry, but still ?

Starscream
2010-07-06, 07:34 PM
Step 1) Time Stop
Step 2) Drop Bag of Holding on floor within ten feet of golem
Step 3) Drop Portable Hole into Bag of Holding
Step 4) Run

JeminiZero
2010-07-06, 08:03 PM
Put every caster in the universe into a portable hole (after shrinking them down of course), get them in range of the demonic-robot, and have them all cast magic missile at it at once whilest you open the portable hole. That thing didn't have spell resistance, right?

For something a little more elegant, try Spellblade Tennis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151109) instead.

Ingus
2010-07-06, 08:08 PM
I don't see the difficulty.
Be a Cleric 20, try to max UMD (domain, feats, being an initiate of Gond...)
Try a way to be ever alerted by danger, some cleric spell will be good. Then forcecage the golem with a scroll. Then you have 2 hours/level to find any creature capable to make forcecage permanent.
You can even use a wish or a miracle by you own.

Alternate solution: take a portable hole and a handy haversack/bag of holding with a telekinetic/Bigby's hand. You know all too well how to use them all.

Alternate, alternate solution: be a Wiz 20 instead.
Do the same till forcecage. Then devote your days to forcecage it again and again. Maybe take turns with the "order of sacred hi-pow mages that forcecage repeatedly a stupid freaking golem till a Time Lord will show (not our business, since it is not part of the contest)".
How do not risk? Just prepare an action and memorize Celerity for good measure.

gallagher
2010-07-06, 08:13 PM
all you need is to be of the level to have a contingency spell and have plane shift as well as rope trick.

have a contingent rope trick set for after you cast plane shift.
get close to the golem and cast rope trick.
once safely inside, cast plane shift to the plane of infinite beaches with sexy people of the appropriate race and gender that the character prefers, with open bars everywhere.
BOOM

woodenbandman
2010-07-06, 09:00 PM
Sudden Quicken Awaken construct + Rushed full round action diplomacy check (guidance of the avatar) = the neutronium golem is your fanatic follower.

Classes:Required: Dweomerkeeper4 , 9th level cleric spells.
Optional: Marshal 1 (charisma in your charisma), Binder 1(for niberius),

Stats: Feat: Sudden Quicken (or rod of quicken, greater), enough bonuses to diplomacy to achieve ~ 150

I think that's GG.

EDIT: Aw dammit, Awaken construct allows spell resistance. In that case, you have to include 4 levels of Dweomerkeeper

HunterOfJello
2010-07-06, 09:04 PM
All that has to be done is reduce his Charisma by 1. There must be some easy solutions to doing this.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-06, 09:04 PM
Pull off the omniscificer trick, getting infinite ranks in Diplomacy. Cast Quickened wish (via metamagic rod) pulling in a time lord, then spend your round Diplomancing it. Make it forever fanatical to you. Then send it out to spank the neutronium golem into behaving.

[edit] Or just cast gate and do the same thing.

[edit 2] Aww. Someone Diplomancied before I did.

woodenbandman
2010-07-06, 09:06 PM
guys, did you not see that I have won?

EDIT: Proper formatting:

Build: Anything that achieves Dweomerkeeper 4 and 9th level spells
Race: Any
Class/Class/PrC
Feats: None Required
Skills (if necessary): Diplomacy + 150

Min/maxing notes: You need a lot of work to fit in +150 diplomacy. Give me a minute to dredge up the builds.

Prefight preparation: Have guidance of the avatar and any other buffs needed for your godly diplomacy check active.

Tactics in combat: Quickened Awaken Construct followed by a full-round action diplomacy check, DC 150, to make the construct my best friend.

How to kill the Neutronium Golem: Who said kill? I guess you could order your fanatic golem to kill himself, in which case you should plane shift away before he does to avoid dying horribly to death throes.

How to survive Neutronium Golem's attack: Celerity, from the Time Domain.

How to survive death throes: He doesn't die, but i can survive in his presence indefinitely and plane shift at any time.

How to save everybody else in the solar system (if possible): Well, assuming that the golem is a unique being, we're mostly ok, otherwise, what's there to stop a billion more from showing up? Can't friend list 'em all.

EDIT: This is more difficult than I had thought, gotta survive about 32000 divine fire damage per round. Well, I REALLY need to just win initiative and then have a contingency to plane shift away. EDIT: Thanks, above poster, becoming immune to damage via Trollform/Favor of the Martyr works too.

Private-Prinny
2010-07-06, 09:17 PM
guys, did you not see that I have won?

Actually, I did. This should have ended 24 posts ago.

IdleMuse
2010-07-06, 09:18 PM
Spell-to-power Maximised Shivering Touch seems fun?

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-06, 09:19 PM
Wizard 18/arch mage 2. Use your high arcana to turn plane shift into a Spell-Like Ability 2/day, and take Reach Spell. Take the Supernatural Transformation feat to turn a Transdimensional plane shift from a Spell-Like to a Supernatural (no SR). Then go ethereal, Quickened (via rod) greater teleport to its current location and cast a reach plane shift to the positive energy plane and hope it fails its save. If it doesn't, Quicken greater teleport to it again, and do the same thing. Try again the next day, and the next, and so on. When it finally rolls a natural 1, just wait until it fills up too high with temporary hp and explodes.

[edit] Though it may be immune to exploding. At least it's out of your hair.

Keld Denar
2010-07-06, 09:19 PM
All that has to be done is reduce his Charisma by 1. There must be some easy solutions to doing this.

Unlike the Tarrasque, the construct type actually gives immunity to both Ability Damage and Ability Drain, so thats a nogo.

About the only thing I can think of would be the Savvy Rogue feat, which allows you to Crippling Strike things that are normally immune to Crippling Strike, and cross-gender that to allow Maiming Strike the same feature.

Then you just have to hit the thing. A touch attack would be easiest, but it still has an 88 Touch AC. Could you Wish for an autohit?

If you were able to port Maiming Strike across with Savvy Rogue and Wish to hit it, you could reduce its Cha to 0, rendering it "unconscious". There are no rules for what happens when a Construct is "unconsious", though, so nothing may happen. On the other side, there are no rules for constructs to heal ability damage, so that would, in theory, knock it out forever. Since its not dead, you wouldn't be affected by its Death Throes.

You'd have a hard time getting to it, but if you could, in theory you could disable it with a questionable rules stretch.

Boci
2010-07-06, 09:35 PM
Then you just have to hit the thing. A touch attack would be easiest, but it still has an 88 Touch AC. Could you Wish for an autohit?

You could replicate surge of fortune from CC, since its a low enough level cleric spell (3rd I think).


Wizard 18/arch mage 2. Use your high arcana to turn plane shift into a Spell-Like Ability 2/day, and take Reach Spell. Take the Supernatural Transformation feat to turn a Transdimensional plane shift from a Spell-Like to a Supernatural (no SR). Then go ethereal, Quickened (via rod) greater teleport to its current location and cast a reach plane shift to the positive energy plane and hope it fails its save. If it doesn't, Quicken greater teleport to it again, and do the same thing. Try again the next day, and the next, and so on. When it finally rolls a natural 1, just wait until it fills up too high with temporary hp and explodes.

[edit] Though it may be immune to exploding. At least it's out of your hair.

Transdimensional allows you to affect ethereal targets from the material plane, but not vice versa IIRC.

subject42
2010-07-06, 09:37 PM
Stick a fork in him, he's done.

Don't those infinite acid splashes get negated by his DR/hardness?

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-06, 09:39 PM
Don't those infinite acid splashes get negated by his DR/hardness?DR, no. Hardness, possibly. And definitely by his regeneration.

Eldariel
2010-07-06, 09:47 PM
Then you just have to hit the thing. A touch attack would be easiest, but it still has an 88 Touch AC. Could you Wish for an autohit?

Eh. Needing one attack against 88 AC on level 20 assuming any optimization at all should be pretty damn easy. You can get +40 without really trying from basic bonuses and +20 from True Strike. Then you only need to generate ~+20 more and that's it. Oh, lessay Law Devotion and whatever Big Buff in your attack stat (Divine Agility, Bite of the Werebear, something) and maybe Shapechange. Or just Surge of Fortune discharged to take 20; even with 20 = +30 variant, 60+30 hits just fine.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 10:06 PM
DR, no. Hardness, possibly. And definitely by his regeneration.


Energy Attacks

Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit.

Hardness can go suck it.

And if regeneration is an issue, we can always add vile damage (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Violate_Spell) on top of the acid damage. Vile damage can only be healed by magic cast in the area of a consecrate or hallow spell, which is awesome.

I'd have to use the Acid Splash cantrip, but hey, small price to pay. Arbitrarily large 1d3 damage is still arbitrarily large damage.

I don't see how regeneration comes up, since it gets deadified in a single round.

Ashiel
2010-07-06, 11:24 PM
If someone hasn't mentioned it previously, you could just cheese it to death via chain-gating. Gate in a few trillion solars who of course come with their arrows of slaying (construct) when fired; followed by a free-action command to kill him; and a quickened Plane-Shift or similar GTFO spell.

5% of them will hit him, and 5% of those will kill him instantly.

Akal Saris
2010-07-06, 11:45 PM
Also, nobody mentioned Ice Assassin either? Be a level 5 rogue or whatever and buy a pair of scrolls of Ice Assassin to UMD, and bam! Two Neutronium Golems beat one!

Prodan
2010-07-06, 11:48 PM
And the ensuing explosion?

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-06, 11:51 PM
And the ensuing explosion?Covered by the NMP field.

...At least, once the explosion is over and done with, anyway.

Prodan
2010-07-06, 11:56 PM
Covered by the NMP field.

...At least, once the explosion is over and done with, anyway.

Alright, Lycanthromancer, I respect you. That is why I am going to ask you if you see anything wrong with my current proposed solution (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8864057&postcount=14).

peacenlove
2010-07-07, 12:02 AM
This baby (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#maceofSmiting) with a DMM cleric and that divine spell that lets you crit on your attack roll = this thing is dead already.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-07, 12:11 AM
Alright, Lycanthromancer, I respect you. That is why I am going to ask you if you see anything wrong with my current proposed solution (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8864057&postcount=14).How exactly are you getting infinite spell slots?

[edit] Wait, are you using arcane fusion to cast another arcane fusion?

I approve.

Prodan
2010-07-07, 12:15 AM
Do you agree with my analysis of the death throes?

The way I see it, either the explosion has an instantaneous duration, in which case it is over by the time Force Cage expires, or it has a duration of more than 1 round, in which case you can IHS it away.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-07, 12:21 AM
Do you agree with my analysis of the death throes?

The way I see it, either the explosion has an instantaneous duration, in which case it is over by the time Force Cage expires, or it has a duration of more than 1 round, in which case you can IHS it away.Forcecages are indestructible outside of specific means to undo them (which, unfortunately, includes disintegrate). Alas, anything that comes within so many feet must make a Fort save or be disintegrated, so I'm pretty sure it'd be destroyed PDQ, and wouldn't shield anyone.

Prodan
2010-07-07, 12:23 AM
Huh, didn't notice that last bit.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-07, 12:26 AM
Huh, didn't notice that last bit.There's always a Widened prismatic sphere.

Prodan
2010-07-07, 12:29 AM
There's always a Widened prismatic sphere.

Fails if the enemy is in the area of effect.

Hey, hang on a tad. The Disintegrate spell is used up after destroying a Force Cage, so by the same logic, shouldn't the Death Throes be used up after destroying the Force Cage?

Alternatively, we use your Widened Prismatic Sphere, but apply the Archmage's Master of Shaping to it to include the Golem and the caster.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-07, 12:38 AM
Fails if the enemy is in the area of effect.

Hey, hang on a tad. The Disintegrate spell is used up after destroying a Force Cage, so by the same logic, shouldn't the Death Throes be used up after destroying the Force Cage?Depends on if it's a spread and acts as a fireball or not.

Prodan
2010-07-07, 12:46 AM
So either Force Cage or a Widened, Shaped Prismatic Sphere depending on how the explosion is going to behave.

Sounds good.

Akal Saris
2010-07-07, 01:22 AM
And the ensuing explosion?

The challenge is to kill a neutronium golem, not survive it! :smalltongue:

Skorj
2010-07-07, 01:48 AM
As a Vance fan, I've got to ask: if you slice a neutronium golem in half, do you find Ioun Stones? Cause it seems like you should.

Adumbration
2010-07-07, 02:24 AM
Be an epic Binder (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drfe/20080407a), summon a sphere of annihilation and shove it up it's arse. Use any of the multitude of methods of immunity to damage and death effects.

Keld Denar
2010-07-07, 02:26 AM
You know how to kill a Neutronium Golem? With Neutrinos!

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh232/tone-master21/neutrinos3.jpg

Do I win?

Boci
2010-07-07, 05:07 AM
Hardness can go suck it.

Isn't that meant to mean that acid does full damage - hardness, as oppose to half damage - hardness for fire and cold?

Runestar
2010-07-07, 05:16 AM
Intiative can be won by shapechanging into a dire tortoise.

Tshern
2010-07-07, 07:16 AM
Just a thought, hopefully it hasn't been debunked yet.

Be Wu Jen with a couple of levels of Spellguard of the Silvery Moon. Craft yourself a Contingent Time stop that triggers when you cast Transcend mortality. Use a scroll of Shapechange to become a Dire tortoise. Use a scroll of Wish to ensure you hit with your next attack. Teleport next to the monster, cast Trancend mortality on it (use a Rod of Reach spell to negate the nasty strength check), Time stop triggers and you can dismiss the spell killing the monster.

This particular strategy might not work, but with a few extra actions and some preparation, I think I could figure this one out.

Edit: Make sure you have the Cleric spell that allows you to take a natural twenty as an immediate action on. Helps with the saving throw against the gravity field. Now you just need to figure out how to get that extra immediate action.

Eldan
2010-07-07, 07:43 AM
Am I mistaken or are that thing's basic attacks just mundane damage? In thate case, wouldn't an incorporeal creature be immune to them? Add Fire immunity to that and you are pretty much safe.

Another_Poet
2010-07-07, 09:42 AM
It looks like this little feller needs to meet my aunt. My aunt could definitely kill it. Her name is Auntie Osmium.


Build: Wiz20
Race: Kobold just for fun
Class/Class/PrC: Wiz20
Feats: Toughness, taken 7 times
Skills (if necessary): perform (spoons) maxed out

Min/maxing notes: Whatevs, eat osmium my friend

Prefight preparation:

1. Learn how to conjure that anti-osmium
2. Use normal magical methods to survive in space
3. Divine the threat of the golem when it is still at a safe (astronomical) distance
4. Teleport to the battle site
5. Either have a contingency teleport to save my butt, or devise a way to delay the appearance of the anti-osmium

Tactics in combat:
Summon anti-osmium and leave

How to kill the Neutronium Golem:
Ummm, summon anti-osmium and leave?

How to survive Neutronium Golem's attack: (if you lose initiative or it takes more than one round to kill the Big Bad NG)
1. Have fire immunity
2. Stay more than 60 feet away from it
3. Surprise round!!!

How to survive death throes:
I won't be there.

How to save everybody else in the solar system (if possible): Hey, it may not be possible. The annihilation of all life on the planet maybe an acceptable casualty.
Interecept at a safe distance.


It will be easy to say "my level 20 wizard plane shifts to a plane of my own creation where I blah blah blah." Being ingenious and audacious is more then acceptable, and figuring a killer build or combo is the hope for this thought exercise. The greatest theorists will be acknowledged and celebrated.

Okay, for something more clever and audacious, how about this:

The golem moves at the speed of light, as per its entry. However, it is not incorporeal nor made of energy. It is made of matter (neutronium).

Its Spot modifier is not listed, but it is clear that it has no way to see invisible things.

Therefore, place a tiny grain of matter in its path, and make that grain invisible. The golem will destroy itself when it impacts the obstacle at the speed of light.

(The grain must be enchanted so as not to be destroyed by divine fire prior to impact.)

Prodan
2010-07-07, 09:47 AM
5. Either have a contingency teleport to save my butt, or devise a way to delay the appearance of the anti-osmium[/I]
I recommend Astral Projection.


How to survive Neutronium Golem's attack: (if you lose initiative or it takes more than one round to kill the Big Bad NG)
1. Have fire immunity
2. Stay more than 60 feet away from it
3. Surprise round!!!
It's divine fire, though.



How to save everybody else in the solar system (if possible): Hey, it may not be possible. The annihilation of all life on the planet maybe an acceptable casualty.
Interecept at a safe distance.

Isn't the damage radius for the death throes only a mere 2,000 miles?

That's not even the size of Earth.

Vulaas
2010-07-07, 02:52 PM
I'd use an Ardent with Practiced Manifester and Metamind.

Schism + Timeless body + Temporal Reiteration + Linked Power (Synchronicity) = Can't touch this, and infinite actions

From there, feel free to destroy it at your leisure. It can't harm you, so you have all the time in the 'verse to figure it out.

Prodan
2010-07-08, 09:57 PM
Being ingenious and audacious is more then acceptable, and figuring a killer build or combo is the hope for this thought exercise. The greatest theorists will be acknowledged and celebrated.

Acknowledge and celebrate someone already

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-08, 11:12 PM
Here's a new challenge:

Kill it with a monk.

Prodan
2010-07-08, 11:16 PM
Here's a new challenge:

Kill it with a monk.

Simple. You use UMD to cast Beastland Ferocity and Delay Death. Then you... er... hm.

Alright, I'm out of ideas. Let's wait for the master to come and enlighten us.

Douglas
2010-07-08, 11:28 PM
Here's a new challenge:

Kill it with a monk.
Simple, take any of the previous ideas and add a 1 level dip in Monk. So what if your Monk has 19 levels in Wizard? He's still a Monk too.

Optimystik
2010-07-08, 11:31 PM
Simple, take any of the previous ideas and add a 1 level dip in Monk. So what if your Monk has 19 levels in Wizard? He's still a Monk too.

I was going to post something along these lines, but got sidetracked :smallyuk:

Yes, minimum monk levels must be specified.

Eldariel
2010-07-08, 11:33 PM
Well, Monk does have Diplomacy in class... Get it Fanatic and ask it to kill itself? Though that still doesn't fulfill all the challenge requirements. You need to UMD Scroll of Forcecage or similar. So yeah, Cha 20-base Monk putting all level-ups in Cha seems to be in order.

Knaight
2010-07-08, 11:54 PM
Non-Magical Ranged Solution

Hulking Hurler. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19873078/Hulking_Hurler_build?pg=89)

For when you need 17 orders of magnitude more damage just to prove a point.

Tshern
2010-07-09, 12:40 AM
Well, Monk does have Diplomacy in class... Get it Fanatic and ask it to kill itself? Though that still doesn't fulfill all the challenge requirements. You need to UMD Scroll of Forcecage or similar. So yeah, Cha 20-base Monk putting all level-ups in Cha seems to be in order.
Construct. Also, it's a Monk, I would take Diplomacy away from its class skills, because it is demeaning for the entire concept of diplomacy to associate it with 3.5e Monk.

Skorj
2010-07-09, 01:54 AM
Construct. Also, it's a Monk, I would take Diplomacy away from its class skills, because it is demeaning for the entire concept of diplomacy to associate it with 3.5e Monk.

Arguably, if monks didn't have good diplomacy, there wouldn't be any left. :smallbiggrin:

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-09, 02:17 AM
Maybe that's why some people think monks are overpowered?

The monks talked them into it.

Prplcheez
2010-07-09, 02:29 AM
I feel obliged to answer this with cheese (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2010735#post2010735).

urbanpirate
2010-07-09, 08:44 AM
this thing is built to self destruct, it kicks off huge heat damage with no mention of fire or heat immunity. so even after you figure for it's insane DR and regen it is doing about 28k average to itself every round.

lil bugger did beat me to the punch on reverse gravity tho

Eldan
2010-07-09, 09:17 AM
Reverse gravity... that's evil.
The thing is immune to gravity though, unless I'm misreading.

Prodan
2010-07-09, 09:21 AM
Isn't that meant to mean that acid does full damage - hardness, as oppose to half damage - hardness for fire and cold?

Fortunately, half the damgage is not Acid damage anymore, but Vile damage instead.

senrath
2010-07-09, 09:43 AM
Reverse gravity... that's evil.
The thing is immune to gravity though, unless I'm misreading.

It is. My original plan to deal with it when it came up in my group a while ago was to open a Gate to the Nine Hells and let them deal with the mess, until I realized that I'd actually have to push the darn thing through the Gate.

Cyclocone
2010-07-09, 09:51 AM
Well, it's still not immune to nat. 1's or (Su) abilities, soo..

Cast Shapechange.
Turn into a Zodar (FF).
Start Wishing the golem out of existence.

Another_Poet
2010-07-09, 02:44 PM
Here's a new challenge:

Kill it with a monk.

1. Give the monk immunity to divine fire.
2. Teleport the monk into the path of the golem
3. The golem hits the monk at light speed and the impact destroys both.

Axolotl
2010-07-09, 02:49 PM
It is. My original plan to deal with it when it came up in my group a while ago was to open a Gate to the Nine Hells and let them deal with the mess, until I realized that I'd actually have to push the darn thing through the Gate.But as statted wouldn't it just destroy the Nine Hells and then come back? It's hardly a long term solution.

Eldan
2010-07-09, 05:50 PM
Not really. Baatezu are fire immune, and destroying the hells should take it long enough that Mephisto or Asmodeus can come up with a plan. Dispater perhaps already has a plan for just that situation.

Axolotl
2010-07-09, 05:57 PM
Not really. Baatezu are fire immune, and destroying the hells should take it long enough that Mephisto or Asmodeus can come up with a plan. Dispater perhaps already has a plan for just that situation.But they aren't immune to divine damage. And even then there really isn't alot that the Archdevils can do. Mesypho would fall back o "trick it to kill Baalzebul/Asmodeus and Bispater would fall back on his age old taactic of hiding in a tower. The Golem wwon't die but the surviving denizens of hell would be very angry.

Also not entirely relevant to this disscusion but I should point out the guy who created the N golem later whent back and recalculated its CR in respect tom his deity rules and it's closer to CR 250.

urbanpirate
2010-07-09, 06:28 PM
Reverse gravity... that's evil.
The thing is immune to gravity though, unless I'm misreading.

yeah it is my original idea was reverse gravity and watch it blow apart.

even without that it does not state that it is imune to the heat damage effect it gives off. meaning it has about 40 rounds to live from the moment it is created.

Sindri
2010-07-10, 01:00 AM
ECL 6 build for this. Ghost, 1 level in commoner. Use Corrupting Touch, choose Charisma, deal 1d4 Charisma damage to a creature with Cha 1. Send it into catatonia, and you don't even need to deal with death throes.

And if a commoner can do it, even a monk can.

The Rabbler
2010-07-10, 04:01 AM
ECL 6 build for this. Ghost, 1 level in commoner. Use Corrupting Touch, choose Charisma, deal 1d4 Charisma damage to a creature with Cha 1. Send it into catatonia, and you don't even need to deal with death throes.

And if a commoner can do it, even a monk can.

it's a construct.

Myou
2010-07-10, 04:25 AM
Why did Roland break the link? :smallconfused:

Roland St. Jude
2010-07-10, 09:38 AM
Why did Roland break the link? :smallconfused:

Sheriff: Because the site it lead to had content inappropriate for this forum. In the future, ask questions about specific instances of moderation privately via PM to the moderator who took the action.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-10, 09:57 AM
Let's see... how Core can we do this?

Cleric-20.


Astral Projection to make a copy of yourself on the Astral.

Miracle to replicate Contingency: Plane Shift: Some place a neutronium golem is not going to survive (Sigil, maybe; let The Lady of Pain do it): When the neutronium golem marks you for termination.

Gate to go to the beasty.

Energy Immunity (Fire) (Spell Compendium) would be helpful for getting it's attention (the description calls it divine fire, but doesn't say fire resistance doesn't help).

If it marks you for termination, your astral copy is gated to Sigil. Per the Magnetar ability, the Neutronium golem goes with you. The Lady of Pain then Mazes the mindless automaton that's wrecking her city (and maybe you, too, but personal survival is not part of the challenge).

Axolotl
2010-07-10, 10:06 AM
Energy Immunity (Fire) (Spell Compendium) would be helpful for getting it's attention (the description calls it divine fire, but doesn't say fire resistance doesn't help).Divine fire means the damage is 50% fire damage and 50% divine damage. Fire Immunity wouldn't save you.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-10, 10:10 AM
Divine fire means the damage is 50% fire damage and 50% divine damage. Fire Immunity wouldn't save you.
Oh? Where is that in the monster description does it say that?

Axolotl
2010-07-10, 10:20 AM
Oh? Where is that in the monster description does it say that?I'm just going by what the developer said when questioned. It's explained in the Amilictli statblock.

EvilJoe15
2010-07-10, 10:21 AM
It's not if you read the Immortal's Handbook you'll see that divine energy bypasses resistance, and immunity.

Prodan
2010-07-10, 02:49 PM
Let's see... how Core can we do this?

Cleric-20.


Astral Projection to make a copy of yourself on the Astral.

Miracle to replicate Contingency: Plane Shift: Some place a neutronium golem is not going to survive (Sigil, maybe; let The Lady of Pain do it): When the neutronium golem marks you for termination.

Gate to go to the beasty.

Energy Immunity (Fire) (Spell Compendium) would be helpful for getting it's attention (the description calls it divine fire, but doesn't say fire resistance doesn't help).

If it marks you for termination, your astral copy is gated to Sigil. Per the Magnetar ability, the Neutronium golem goes with you. The Lady of Pain then Mazes the mindless automaton that's wrecking her city (and maybe you, too, but personal survival is not part of the challenge).

What if it doesn't mark you for termination, just your planet?

Another_Poet
2010-07-10, 03:47 PM
What if it doesn't mark you for termination, just your planet?

How would it know what planet you're from? It has no divination powers.

Prodan
2010-07-10, 04:23 PM
How would it know what planet you're from? It has no divination powers.

Presumably, the Time Lord in charge tells it to EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!

The Rabbler
2010-07-10, 05:04 PM
I want to see the stats on a Time Lord now. The entry mentioned that they had 920 HD, but beyond that I've never heard of them. Should they be treated as an outer-multiversal Lady of Pain?

Prodan
2010-07-10, 05:07 PM
Meh, most of that comes from their equipment.

Eldan
2010-07-10, 05:20 PM
Huh. 920 HD? Can't be Doctor Who timelords, then.

For me, the doctor is a Factotum variant with psychic powers instead of spells, and a high-LA template for regeneration, time sense, two hearts, a few stat boni and assorted other things. Not an epic level monstrosity.

Axolotl
2010-07-10, 05:50 PM
I want to see the stats on a Time Lord now. The entry mentioned that they had 920 HD, but beyond that I've never heard of them. Should they be treated as an outer-multiversal Lady of Pain?The template for them is in Ascension, they weigh in at 999 HD with 200 Divine Ranks and are basically sentient cosmologies, (as in if you took the Planescape setting, the prime material, inner, outer, transitive planes and the far realm all combined and made sentient.

I don't think anyones bothered fully working out the stats for one.

EvilJoe15
2010-07-10, 05:55 PM
There's supposed to be Tetragrammaton stated as a High Lord in another Immortal's book, but I haven't heard anything about it in a while.

arguskos
2010-07-10, 06:01 PM
There's supposed to be Tetragrammaton stated as a High Lord in another Immortal's book, but I haven't heard anything about it in a while.
...why bother? Nothing can possibly challenge Tetragrammaton beyond a Pentad or something insanely time-consuming like that. That book series really just fails to make much sense at that level.

Axolotl
2010-07-10, 06:01 PM
There's supposed to be Tetragrammaton stated as a High Lord in another Immortal's book, but I haven't heard anything about it in a while.It won't happen. He cancelled all work on 3.5 stuff when 4e came out and he's doing the whole uber epic rules for that now.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-10, 06:33 PM
What if it doesn't mark you for termination, just your planet?
Then your astral copy dies, you wake back up on whatever odd plane you went to sleep from, spend a bit more in material components, and try again. Very little in the way of actual equipment is required for this trick, so you can spend a LOT on the components for Astral Projection.

Jothki
2010-07-10, 06:56 PM
Wouldn't a Neutronium Golem drop a size category every 15 minutes, at absolute best? It'd probably be dead before you managed to reach it.

If it's right next to you at maximum power, you could become invincible somehow and wait it out.

Prodan
2010-07-10, 10:41 PM
Then your astral copy dies, you wake back up on whatever odd plane you went to sleep from, spend a bit more in material components, and try again. Very little in the way of actual equipment is required for this trick, so you can spend a LOT on the components for Astral Projection.

I'm pretty sure part of the original challenge included saving the planet.

Jack_Simth
2010-07-10, 11:01 PM
I'm pretty sure part of the original challenge included saving the planet.
Well, the original challenge included saving the planet if possible. That's more of a secondary goal (and actually, it was phrased as "solar system"...). If it marks a planet for termination, it's pretty much killing the planet, as it takes them out in one hit. AKA, you'd need to be certain of winning initiative, and of one-rounding the beast (which can actually be arranged), but you also need to make sure the beast ends up elsewhere (which can pretty much only be arranged if it marks you for termination).

If it marks the Cleric for termination, it ends up in Sigil, where The Lady of Pain takes care of it (by giving it a permanent time-out. Yay for unstatted NPC's with known habits!). Death Throes never happen, as the beast doesn't technically die. Technically.

Prodan
2010-07-10, 11:14 PM
Well, the original challenge included saving the planet if possible. That's more of a secondary goal (and actually, it was phrased as "solar system"...). If it marks a planet for termination, it's pretty much killing the planet, as it takes them out in one hit.
Original challenge never mentioned it targeting you, which may be a problem with your approach.



AKA, you'd need to be certain of winning initiative, and of one-rounding the beast (which can actually be arranged), but you also need to make sure the beast ends up elsewhere (which can pretty much only be arranged if it marks you for termination).
I know. I did so on the first page.

Prodan
2010-07-11, 01:13 AM
Neutronium Golem stats can be found here (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x230/ExarKun4321/?action=view&current=1210695483931.png&newest=1)

chiasaur11
2010-07-11, 01:36 AM
Neutronium Golem stats can be found here (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x230/ExarKun4321/?action=view&current=1210695483931.png&newest=1)

Why one would want to, one does not know.

It's basically a lot of arbitrarily high numbers, with a few amazingly glaring weaknesses already mentioned.