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Peregrine
2010-07-07, 12:19 PM
Some time back (about a year ago in fact), I posted a request for help (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115202) with a prestige class called the Matapor street wrestler, which I was working up for a player in my current campaign who wanted a more-martial, less-mystical monk. With a bit of input from the boards, I got the first few levels finished, enough to let the character level up several times between then and now.

And now I've finally finished the class and would like some feedback from you lot. I do trust the player in question to be sensible about it, but I'd still like some neutral third parties to take a look and tell me if they think it's over- or underpowered.

Matapor Street Wrestler

Fluff
Wrestling is an extremely popular sport in the streets of Matapor. It unites the rich and poor, merchants and labourers, nobles and commoners; and skilled street wrestlers can win acclaim, wealth, and prestige the equal of any merchant, or even of the nobility.

The Matapor style of fighting has spread throughout the Trade Coast. “Wrestling” is perhaps a misnomer, as Matapor street wrestling encompasses grappling, boxing, and fighting with the one-handed staff (treat as a club) and other light weapons. Wrestling bouts are more than just common brawls; the Matapor style encourages quick movement, careful timing, and clever tactics. Wearing little or no armour, Matapor street wrestlers leap about, dodging and deflecting one another’s strikes until one can exploit the flaw in the other’s defences. It is a skilful and exciting spectacle.

A street wrestle might be conducted one-on-one, but group fights (between teams or all-in) are more common. More exotic rules are also used on an ad hoc basis, often to showcase the unique skills of particular wrestlers—blindfold matches, for instance, or one-on-many fights. A great deal of money is bet on matches, and a cut always goes to the winner or winners; victory may be determined by knockout, submission, or crowd acclamation after a period of time. There are also rumours of an underground wrestling scene—knife fights, blood matches, even fights to the death. Such rumours are, of course, firmly denied in public.

Among the many and varied backgrounds from which Matapor street wrestlers come, Liomo “the Heron” stands out. Master Liomo emigrated to Matapor some thirty years ago, and soon began developing a style of fighting blending the local wrestling with great discipline and rigour, a style which he taught to others. Heron schools can now be found in all the cities of the Trade Coast. All wrestlers of the Heron school obey the code of Master Liomo:
Never strike in anger
Defend the weak and fearful
Devote yourself to self-improvement and encourage others to do likewise
They do not accept money from gambling on their fights, though they are permitted to accept small perks like lodgings and meals. They are also expressly forbidden to take part in the underground wrestling scene, which may be an admission that it exists.

Playing a Matapor street wrestler
Despite their lack of armour, Matapor street wrestlers are often harder to hit than a soldier in full plate, especially against touch attacks. Nonetheless, their relatively low hit points mean they cannot take too heavy a beating, and so they are at their best as part of a team. A Matapor street wrestler paired with a barbarian or fighter can tie down multiple opponents, and open holes in their defences for their hard-hitting friend to exploit. Two or more Matapor street wrestlers can be a nightmare for opponents, as they each distract and frustrate opponents trying to attack the other.

Matapor street wrestlers also make competent second-row fighters, defending the more vulnerable members of a party and venturing forth to strike targets of opportunity. However, a Matapor street wrestler is not strong in ranged combat and should never try to stand his ground at a distance.

Fighters, barbarians, rogues, and multiclass combinations of these classes, make up the majority of Matapor street wrestlers. Most of the rest are monks, and most of those are students of the Heron School.

Hit die: d8

Requirements
Base attack bonus: +5
Skills: Balance 4 ranks, Climb 4 ranks, Jump 4 ranks, Tumble 8 ranks
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike
Special: Matapor street wrestlers of the Heron school must be lawful good or lawful neutral, and obey the code of Master Liomo. In return, they may multiclass freely between the monk and Matapor street wrestler classes. A wrestler of the Heron school who violates the code, or who becomes evil or non-lawful, retains all class features, but may not return to the Heron school or gain further monk levels until he atones.

Class skills
The Matapor street wrestler's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str) and Tumble (Dex).

Skill points at each level: 4 + Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Flurry|AC|Dmg¹
1st|+0|+2|+2|+0|Flurry of blows, unarmed damage|−2/−2|+1|1d6
2nd|+1|+3|+3|+0|Frustrate +1, harass|−2/−2|+1|1d6
3rd|+2|+3|+3|+1|Distract, uncanny dodge|−2/−2|+1|1d6
4th|+3|+4|+4|+1|Frustrate +2|−2/−2|+2|1d8
5th|+3|+4|+4|+1|Evasive manoeuvres|−1/−1|+2|1d8
6th|+4|+5|+5|+2|Frustrate +3, throws and sweeps|−1/−1|+2|1d8
7th|+5|+5|+5|+2|Ground fighting, improved uncanny dodge|−1/−1|+3|1d8
8th|+6|+6|+6|+2|Frustrate +4, master of mobility|−1/−1|+3|1d10
9th|+6|+6|+6|+3|Master of grappling|+0/+0|+3|1d10
10th|+7|+7|+7|+3|Frustrate +5, master of the combat arena|+0/+0|+4|1d10[/table]
¹ The value shown is for Medium characters.

Weapon and armour proficiency: A Matapor street wrestler gains no additional weapon or armour proficiencies.

AC bonus (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler specialises in evading the attacks of multiple opponents. At 1st level, and every three levels after (4th, 7th and 10th), he gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against all opponents of which he is aware. This bonus stacks with other dodge bonuses, including that gained from the Dodge feat.

Flurry of blows (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler may strike with a flurry of blows, as a monk of his level. Unlike a monk, a Matapor street wrestler may use a flurry of blows when wearing light or no armour, and may use any light simple weapon with which he is proficient as part of the flurry.

If a Matapor street wrestler also has levels in the monk class, he may choose to stack his levels in both classes to determine the penalty for flurry of blows and the number of bonus attacks, and he may use special monk weapons as part of a flurry. In this case, restrictions apply as for a monk; he must wear no armour and flurry only with special monk weapons. (He may freely choose between the flurry of blows restrictions depending on the circumstances.)

Unarmed damage (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as a monk of his level. If a Matapor street wrestler also has levels in the monk class, his levels in both classes stack to determine his unarmed damage.

Frustrate (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler knows how to evade attack after attack, then launch a punishing counterstrike when the attack falters. At 2nd level and higher, if the opponent to which his Dodge feat applies makes a melee attack against a Matapor street wrestler and misses, he gains a +1 bonus to attacks against that opponent until the end of his next turn (or until he applies his Dodge feat to a new opponent). These bonuses are cumulative for multiple failed attacks from the same opponent, up to a maximum bonus of half his class level.

Harass (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler knows how to find openings others would miss. At 2nd level or higher, whenever an opponent attempts a Concentration or Tumble check to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity from a Matapor street wrestler, the opponent must beat the required DC by a number equal to the Matapor street wrestler's class level or provoke an attack of opportunity. (If the opponent fails to even reach the normal DC for a Concentration check, they simply lose their action as normal, without provoking an attack of opportunity.)

Distract (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler of 3rd level or higher can perform the aid another special attack in place of a melee attack (instead of as a standard action). Additionally, he may make an attack of opportunity to use the aid another action when an opponent within reach of his unarmed strike attacks one of his allies. A Matapor street wrestler may only make one such attack per round, even if he is entitled to multiple attacks of opportunity.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler of 3rd level or higher retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), even if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. (He still loses any Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.)

If he gains uncanny dodge from a second class, the Matapor street wrestler automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below).

Evasive manoeuvres (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler of 5th level or higher can foil many combat manoeuvres with timing and agility, and even turn the tables by landing in an advantageous position. When targeted by one of these special attacks, he may move to an adjacent unoccupied square in the following circumstances:
Trip: If he succeeds on the opposed Strength or Dexterity roll to resist being tripped. (He cannot also attempt to trip the opponent who failed to trip him.)
Grapple: If he succeeds on the opposed grapple check to resist entering a grapple.
Overrun: If he chooses to avoid the overrun. (He may always choose to avoid an overrun, even against an opponent with the Improved Overrun feat.)
Bull rush: By making a Reflex save in place of a Strength check. (The opponent is not prevented from entering the Matapor street wrestler's square.)
A Matapor street wrestler can only move in this manner once per round. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity and does not count against his movement for the round. It does not count as the Matapor street wrestler's five-foot step for the round, but it cannot be used if he is unable to take a five-foot step due to difficult terrain, darkness, or other adverse conditions.

Throws and sweeps (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler of 6th level or higher can toss opponents around with ease. As a full-round action, he can move an opponent from one square to another, within range of his unarmed strike.

Make an unarmed melee touch attack, as normal for starting a grapple.
Make a grapple check to hold the opponent and deal unarmed strike damage; do not move into the opponent's space.
Make a grapple check to move the opponent to any other square you threaten with your unarmed strike. The opponent lands prone.

This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. An opponent already grappling another character can only be thrown if the other character(s) in the grapple voluntarily release the opponent. Any opponent that the Matapor street wrestler cannot establish a hold against (i.e. a creature two or more size categories larger than the Matapor street wrestler) cannot be thrown.

Ground fighting (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler on the ground is scarcely less dangerous than one on his feet. At 7th level, he takes no penalties to attacks or AC for being prone, though he still receives the bonus to AC against ranged attacks. He does not provoke attacks of opportunity when standing from prone.

Additionally, he gains a +4 bonus to grapple checks made to begin or hold a pin, or to resist or break another's pin.

Improved uncanny dodge (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler of 7th level or higher can no longer be flanked. This defense denies rogues the ability to use flank attacks to sneak attack the Matapor street wrestler.

The exception to this defense is that a rogue at least four levels higher than the Matapor street wrestler can flank him (and thus sneak attack him).

If a Matapor street wrestler gains uncanny dodge (see above) from a second class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge, and the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank him.

Master of mobility (Ex): At 8th level, a Matapor street wrestler’s penalties for accelerated use of the Balance, Climb and Tumble skills are reduced by −5. (Thus, he takes no penalty for moving at full speed when balancing, nor for moving at half speed when climbing; and he takes only a −5 penalty for moving at full speed when tumbling.) When using the Jump skill, he needs only half the distance (10 ft. instead of 20 ft.) for a running start.

Additionally, he gains Fleet of Foot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats#fleetOfFoot) as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. If he already has this feat, he instead gains any one feat for which he does meet the prerequisites.

Master of grappling (Ex): When grappling, a Matapor street wrestler of 9th level or higher retains his Dexterity bonus to AC against opponents not in the grapple. His unarmed strikes still threaten adjacent squares as if he were not grappling. This ability applies even when the Matapor street wrestler is pinning an opponent, though not when he is pinned himself.

The +4 grapple bonus gained from ground fighting now applies to all grapple checks.

Master of the combat arena (Ex): A Matapor street wrestler of 10th level is an undisputed master of physical combat, able to take on multiple opponents simultaneously and make it look easy. When he uses a standard action to make an attack, he may apply his flurry of blows ability to gain additional attacks as part of the same action. Each attack must target a different opponent.

In addition, he gains damage reduction 3/—, and the threat range of his unarmed strikes is doubled. Unlike other critical hit-related effects, this increase does stack with similar effects, such as the Improved Critical feat (i.e. a 10th-level Matapor street wrestler with this feat has a critical threat range of 17–20 on his unarmed strikes).

Peregrine
2010-07-09, 11:29 AM
Anybody? I'd really like some feedback on this class, especially the power level -- especially on those high-level abilities. Am I palming off junk to my player, or setting myself up for street wrestler + enlarge person = untouchable dragon-smasher?

Peregrine
2010-07-11, 10:20 PM
Nobody? Really?

Maybe the name's putting people off. If I weren't the one who'd posted it, I might think it was just another highly setting-specific or media-adaptation prestige class and give it a miss. But in this case that's just the fluff that makes it fit the setting; I could just as well have called it "street wrestler" or something else entirely.

Maybe if I retitle the thread "More-martial, less-mystical monk PrC", that'll get people to read and comment/critique? (Or is "PEACH" back in fashion? :smallwink:)

Dragon Elite
2010-07-11, 10:41 PM
PEACH makes people comment.
Other than that, it seems pretty cool. However, I have no idea of balance, especially balancing PrCs with base classes. However, you cannot go wrong buffing the monk. :smalltongue:

waterpenguin43
2010-07-11, 10:46 PM
Sounds around right. It seems quite balanced and has a decent amount of flavor to it.

Peregrine
2010-07-11, 11:30 PM
PEACH makes people comment.

It seems to come and go -- I haven't posted a lot in about a year, but I remember that for a while, the general rule seemed to be "you have to put PEACH on your post if you want comments", which was then followed by "don't put PEACH on your post, we know you want comments because you posted it on a forum". :smallsmile:


Other than that, it seems pretty cool. However, I have no idea of balance, especially balancing PrCs with base classes. However, you cannot go wrong buffing the monk. :smalltongue:

That's about what I thought. But while the player in question has promised not to powergame in this campaign (part of why he's played a monk :smalltongue:), he's still the only experienced player out of the lot, so I want to make sure there's no little exploits that will mean he leaps ahead in power and leaves the others behind (especially the bard!)

Of course, seeing how it plays will be the real decider.


Sounds around right. It seems quite balanced and has a decent amount of flavor to it.

Thanks for taking a look. :smallsmile:

DragoonWraith
2010-07-19, 09:50 PM
Grappling is problematic, unarmed strikes are problematic, flurry of blows is problematic, dodge is problematic...

None of this is your fault, but seriously, you've really stumbled across a pretty amazing series of terrible mechanics on which to base a class.

First: You have a ton of Feat pre-requisites. Dodge, in particular, seems out of place (I know it gets used later, but still). Since Dodge is an awful feat, I recommend dropping that (and making Frustrate instead work separately against each target who misses him).

Second, you base a lot of things (Unarmed Strike damage, Improved Uncanny Dodge, etc) on class level - for a 10 level PrC. That's problematic, because it means you're only getting 10 levels of those things instead of the 20 that a base class would have gotten. Unfortunately, I don't have a great answer to that one - in most cases, to do otherwise would simply make the Monk even more pointless than it already is.

Third, ultimately... Grapple is not only confusing to use (the usual complaint with Grapple), it's also horribly designed. Having made a martial discipline that focused heavily on it, I can sympathize here. But you get +4 to Grapple checks - equivalent to a single size increase. You still can't Grapple things that are Huge or larger, you're still looking at absurd penalties to Grapple when dealing with larger things, and you still have to deal with the fact that, if you do manage to Grapple some big beasty, they're going to have a +30 Racial modifier to Grapple (seriously).

At the same time, you'll also be dealing with humanoids with a Str of 8-10, no Improved Grapple, poor BAB, etc, who are going to have a Grapple check of about +5 by the time you have a, what, +14 (+6 from 22 Strength, quite conservative, +4 from Improved Grapple, +4 from Matapor) - on average, they'll need a 20 to beat you.

Of course... those same dudes with little to no Strength and poor BAB are also going to have Freedom of Movement. Which simply entirely ruins your day.



Overall, it's well designed for the system it exists within. It's probably well balanced with Fighter or Monk, probably closer to Fighter than Monk, which is a good thing. Ultimately, though, at least in my opinion, both the Fighter and Monk are terribly designed classes and you've been led astray by basing your class on them, I think. This is a 10 class PrC enterable at level 5 - you finish at 15. A level 15 character with only mundane tricks like this, basically, is an NPC. They can't compete, at all.

The idea is good, the class features are good. But I think it would be better as a 5 level PrC, just because that way you're still looking at finishing by level 10 when these class features are still meaningful.

Bhu
2010-07-19, 09:52 PM
I don't have time to look it over for balance right now but wrasslin' is yay!

Peregrine
2010-08-01, 11:20 AM
Thanks for the critique, DragoonWraith, and sorry for the slow reply.


Grappling is problematic, unarmed strikes are problematic, flurry of blows is problematic, dodge is problematic...

None of this is your fault, but seriously, you've really stumbled across a pretty amazing series of terrible mechanics on which to base a class.

Thanks. :smalltongue: First things first: in my defence, this PrC was written for a PC who was basically built around those four things. Well, those three things (grappling, unarmed strike, flurry of blows), and he had Dodge too.

That said, as a keen homebrewer I know that the best stuff is able to stand apart from the situation it was written for. Nobody on the Internet is going to care if I write a "Bearded Guardsman of Pelintan Who Wears Adamantine Full Plate and is Named Steve" PrC.

So let me say instead that I work with what I've got, and what I've got is D&D 3.5e. Yeah, this PC will never be CoDzilla. (By conscious choice of the player, may I add.) But we've gotten the hang of grappling, mostly; I'm not sure why you say unarmed strikes and flurry of blows are problematic; and Dodge may be weak, but it is in the game. So rather than chucking it off a pier somewhere in a weighted sack, the class features that rely on Dodge are meant to mitigate its suck.


First: You have a ton of Feat pre-requisites.

Four is a ton? (Three, really, since Improved Grapple requires Improved Unarmed Strike.) Okay, yeah, for many characters it is; but a monk gets two of them for free and a fighter can pick them up with his lunch order. :smallwink:


Second, you base a lot of things (Unarmed Strike damage, Improved Uncanny Dodge, etc) on class level - for a 10 level PrC. That's problematic, because it means you're only getting 10 levels of those things instead of the 20 that a base class would have gotten. Unfortunately, I don't have a great answer to that one - in most cases, to do otherwise would simply make the Monk even more pointless than it already is.

Let's see... Unarmed strike: Fair call. It's stackable with monk levels, though... for what that's worth. Frustrate: If an opponent misses you with more than five attacks in a round, I don't think being capped at +5 to hit them back is really such a worry! Harass: +10 to Concentrate/Tumble DCs is, I think, just fine. This is a feature that, in my opinion, wouldn't work well (as written) as a base class feature. Improved Uncanny Dodge: Also a good call, but it's very often a prestige class feature; again, I work in the system I've got.


...if you do manage to Grapple some big beasty, they're going to have a +30 Racial modifier to Grapple (seriously).

Like what? :smallconfused:


At the same time, you'll also be dealing with humanoids with a Str of 8-10, no Improved Grapple, poor BAB, etc, who are going to have a Grapple check of about +5 by the time you have a, what, +14 (+6 from 22 Strength, quite conservative, +4 from Improved Grapple, +4 from Matapor) - on average, they'll need a 20 to beat you.

There's a funny story involving a succubus, and several deceived party members who tried to stop the street wrestler from choking her to death; the bard couldn't touch him and the warlock actually got that 20. Which got him into the grapple, and no further.

But yeah. They fight a lot of humanoids. Being able to reliably (almost infallibly) beat appropriate targets with grappling is basically "as intended"; it's his version of the sorcerer's "save-or-die targeting weak saves".


Of course... those same dudes with little to no Strength and poor BAB are also going to have Freedom of Movement. Which simply entirely ruins your day.

I'm the DM. I have no intention of spamming freedom of movement just to ruin the grappler's day, and honestly, I have scant respect for DMs who would. There's going to be someone who doesn't have it in most fights, so the Matapor street wrestler will have something to do. And he's not alone; there's the sorcerer with dispel magic. If, in a few levels' time, when they face opponents with enough 4th-level slots to cover all their allies, I decide to use that tactic on a few occasions, they will learn to deal with it, and nobody's day need be ruined.


Ultimately, though, at least in my opinion, both the Fighter and Monk are terribly designed classes and you've been led astray by basing your class on them, I think.

I couldn't exactly write this player a PrC for warblades... :smallwink:


The idea is good, the class features are good. But I think it would be better as a 5 level PrC, just because that way you're still looking at finishing by level 10 when these class features are still meaningful.

It's an idea worth considering, but... well, I'm not convinced. Maybe it's because the other PCs are a bard, a warlock, and a blaster-sorcerer (who is the least experienced gamer of the lot and so plays nowhere close to optimal -- more like how the class was seemingly intended, actually). But I don't think this PrC will leave the player in question unable to compete.

Lest you think I'm blowing you off after your thorough examination, let me again say a sincere thank you for the critique. I just choose to take on your "it's well designed for the system it exists within" comment, and not the "drop Dodge and make it 5 levels" suggestions. :smallsmile:

DragoonWraith
2010-08-01, 01:01 PM
Thanks for the critique, DragoonWraith, and sorry for the slow reply.
Not a problem at all!


Thanks. :smalltongue: First things first: in my defence, this PrC was written for a PC who was basically built around those four things. Well, those three things (grappling, unarmed strike, flurry of blows), and he had Dodge too.
Fair enough, fair enough. It wasn't really a criticism so much as "sigh, it's a real shame that all of these things suck."


That said, as a keen homebrewer I know that the best stuff is able to stand apart from the situation it was written for. Nobody on the Internet is going to care if I write a "Bearded Guardsman of Pelintan Who Wears Adamantine Full Plate and is Named Steve" PrC.
Too true; I've fallen in that hole before.


So let me say instead that I work with what I've got, and what I've got is D&D 3.5e. Yeah, this PC will never be CoDzilla. (By conscious choice of the player, may I add.) But we've gotten the hang of grappling, mostly; I'm not sure why you say unarmed strikes and flurry of blows are problematic; and Dodge may be weak, but it is in the game. So rather than chucking it off a pier somewhere in a weighted sack, the class features that rely on Dodge are meant to mitigate its suck.
Yeah, except that class feature is really weak when it's only one opponent at a time and you have to guess which one it will be. I.e., it's weak for the exact same reasons that Dodge itself is weak. Plus, you can't use Dodge while Grappling, since you lose your Dex bonus to AC. Dodge just doesn't fit into this PrC well, even if the player you made this for has it.

Other than that, Unarmed Strikes are problematic because you can't enhance them (Ki Strike is a joke and the Necklace of Mighty Fists is downright insulting); you can fix that with the Amulet of Natural Attacks, but that's from Savage Species, a 3.0 book of generally questionable balance, so a lot of DMs don't like that (plus it basically makes your fists cost equivalent to 300 gp manufactured weapons, since you have to pay 300 gp + cost of Masterwork + cost of Enhancements, which is a little high, I think).

Flurry of Blows is problematic because it applies a attack roll penalty to a moderate BAB class, and unlike a Rogue with Sneak Attack, you don't get extra damage that applies to all your attacks (the only way to make a large number of attacks worthwhile; otherwise you're better off Power Attacking with a beefy two-hander). Plus is contradicts the other major scaling Monk class feature (Fast Movement), since you can't move and flurry in the same round.


Four is a ton? (Three, really, since Improved Grapple requires Improved Unarmed Strike.) Okay, yeah, for many characters it is; but a monk gets two of them for free and a fighter can pick them up with his lunch order. :smallwink:
Yes, four is a ton. A non-human Monk will have to devote both (1st and 3rd) of his feats to this. A non-human non-Monk non-Fighter won't be able to qualify on time at all. That's problematic.


Unarmed strike: Fair call. It's stackable with monk levels, though... for what that's worth.
Little; no one really wants more than 2 Monk levels.


Frustrate: If an opponent misses you with more than five attacks in a round, I don't think being capped at +5 to hit them back is really such a worry!
Eh. True enough, there, I suppose.


Harass: +10 to Concentrate/Tumble DCs is, I think, just fine. This is a feature that, in my opinion, wouldn't work well (as written) as a base class feature.
I'll buy that, I suppose.


Improved Uncanny Dodge: Also a good call, but it's very often a prestige class feature; again, I work in the system I've got.
True enough.


Like what? :smallconfused:
Huh; you're right. I must have forgotten how Grapple scores are calculated when I was looking through the monster entries, because several of the ones I thought had that don't. OK, point, but still. There size alone is problematic.


But yeah. They fight a lot of humanoids. Being able to reliably (almost infallibly) beat appropriate targets with grappling is basically "as intended"; it's his version of the sorcerer's "save-or-die targeting weak saves".
True enough, but at least everyone tries to buff up their weak saves. Not too many people put a lot of effort into their Grapple check.


I'm the DM. I have no intention of spamming freedom of movement just to ruin the grappler's day, and honestly, I have scant respect for DMs who would. There's going to be someone who doesn't have it in most fights, so the Matapor street wrestler will have something to do. And he's not alone; there's the sorcerer with dispel magic. If, in a few levels' time, when they face opponents with enough 4th-level slots to cover all their allies, I decide to use that tactic on a few occasions, they will learn to deal with it, and nobody's day need be ruined.
Fair enough in general, but I mean... this goes along with your argument for Dodge and Uncanny Dodge - this is the system you're writing for. Freedom of Movement is a part of it, and no Wizard who had 5th or higher level spells would fail to prepare at least one FoM, methinks. Rings of Freedom of Movement become quite popular eventually, too.


I couldn't exactly write this player a PrC for warblades... :smallwink:
More's the pity. I don't DM, but if I did I don't think I'd accept anyone who was playing a Tier 5 or worse class, really.


It's an idea worth considering, but... well, I'm not convinced. Maybe it's because the other PCs are a bard, a warlock, and a blaster-sorcerer (who is the least experienced gamer of the lot and so plays nowhere close to optimal -- more like how the class was seemingly intended, actually). But I don't think this PrC will leave the player in question unable to compete.
Bard, Sorcerer, and Warlock are each much better than this, methinks. Even a Blaster Sorcerer, I'm sure, still is going to get some utility spells, I'd think. And a Warlock can do a lot of neat tricks. Bards, on the other hand, are just all kinds of awesome. Your party is pretty neatly playing at Tier 3, methinks. This class is... probably Tier 4. It's not a huge disparity, but it is there. Especially since the Sorcerer can still be high-end Tier 3.


Lest you think I'm blowing you off after your thorough examination, let me again say a sincere thank you for the critique. I just choose to take on your "it's well designed for the system it exists within" comment, and not the "drop Dodge and make it 5 levels" suggestions. :smallsmile:
Yeah, I understand that. I just hate that system. Non-ToB/MoI melee is basically infuriating to me.