Is it reasonable for me to be offended...?

[Zovc]

So, I do a lot of IT stuff for my girlfriend's family, being an IT guy. I've been out of work for a long time, as well, so my funds are dwindling.

I've done a lot of random stuff for her brother. Mostly "Zovc, I want to play this game, get it for me." That's usually how he asks, although he asks my girlfriend to ask me--she asks nicely. So generally, he seems to--for some reason--think that I am obligated to help him.

Now, he wants me to install Windows 7 on his laptop so that he can stop using my girlfriend's laptop to do nothing special (yeah, he usually has me put games on her laptop so that he can play them). This is the text message I sent my girlfriend as a response to her asking me for him, "Tell [name] I'll do it for free, but it'd be nice if he could give me some money for it. Windows 7 is expensive." I felt like the whole "I'm saving you at least $200, having lunch would be nice" vibe would be polite and modest enough, especially considering I EXPLICITLY SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY ME, but he didn't say anything when she told him that.

Two days later, I ask her what's going on with his laptop and he's having someone else do it for him.

To wrap it up, he could already have Windows 7 on his laptop for free, but because I modestly asked if he could give me any amount of money that he felt like my time and effort was worth, he is going to have someone else do a favor for him less promptly (and possibly competently).

So, is it reasonable for me to be very offended by this situation?

[Raistlin1040]

*shrug* If he doesn't want you to do it, it's not your problem. If someone else does a crappy job and he comes to you, you can sit back and be smug about it.

[Tirian]

I can't imagine why you should be offended. It seems like your time isn't being taken for free any more, which would appear to be what you wanted.

[Cealocanth]

With the way you described it, it was completely unreasonable for them to react that way and it was reasonable, although not nice, to be offended.

Mostly, it sounds like you said, "Windows 7 is expensive, could you give me some money to help pay for it?" and he heard "Windows 7 is too expensive to do for free. It's $200 or I'm not doing it for you."

So it was totally uncalled for when they decided to have someone else do it for them without telling you, although they thought it was reasonable because that other person is cheaper, and it was not very reasonable to be offended by their choice when they heard what they thought you said, but it is reasonable to be offfended on your end.

I suggest that you state to them that this was all a complete misunderstanding and that you're sorry if what you said offended them. It was unreasonable of you to be offended by their economic choice, but it would have been nice if they could have let you know.

[Zovc]

It seems like your time isn't being taken for free any more, which would appear to be what you wanted.

Well, my time isn't really being taken at all right now.

I'm more so offended about my services 'not being worth nothing, because I asked for maybe something.'

[thubby]

i would be more offended that you were basically being used. now that you're not free to abuse, he's moved on.
If my impression is right, he's a cretin.

EDIT: how old is the brother?

[Iruka]

I think his approach was more "Windows 7 installed for free? yes please!" than "Zovc is really good with computers, I should ask him to do it." So I think you should not be offended, since he was in my opinion not looking for quality but for cheap services.

I think it's good you asked for some compensation, though. You're not the IT-lackey of your girlfriend's family. Especially not for her brother who can't be bothered to ask you in person ...

[Coidzor]

Windows 7 costs 200 dollars? And you were willing to cover the bulk of this for your girlfriend's father who isn't on good enough terms to ask you himself or take you out to lunch for it or something similar? :smallconfused: Ed: whoops. Misread that as father for some reason. Still, I'm...confused.

I feel I am missing something here.

But, yes, if you're close enough to be helping them with IT things, well, you should be on the level where you're close enough to them that they can talk to you themselves.

Or maybe I'm just weird and think that if you're doing much computer stuff for them, you should at least be partially adopted into the family unit.

[Cobalt]

I'd be offended, but then again, I have anger issues.

[Crimmy]

NO, it's not reasonable to be offended.
As far as I can tell, what they asked for was a favor.
You know what a favor is, right? It's when somebody does something for somebody else, knowing well that appreciation is the reward.

A favor, asked or given, is never about "worthness" or "worthlessness", but rather the mentality of being helpful. If I asked a friend for a favor, and he told me, even with subtelty, that it would be nice to get something in return, I would tell him: "Then don't worry, you don't really have to do it, I was only asking for this as a favor."

I mean, what if you asked your GF for, I dunno, something you couldn't reach, and she answered with "it would be nice to get something in return (obviously, something more material)"? I'm sure you might even feel offended.

I dunno, that's the kind of mentality we have here in Mexico when we think of "favors".

[Cobalt]

I dunno, that's the kind of mentality we have here in Mexico when we think of "favors".

Ah, see, therein lies the major difference. In America, we're very, very selfish, you see. And reaching for something on the top shelf is, in fact, something we expect to be paid for.

Generously. As in, triple digits.

[/joking]

[Zovc]

I dunno, that's the kind of mentality we have here in Mexico when we think of "favors".

I think there's a certain point when doing "favors" constantly becomes "being taken advantage of". Maybe not where you're from?

[Iruka]

Doing something that is a considerable amount of work and saves a lot of money for someone who is not a close friend is in my book more than a favor. But cultural differences may come into play here.

[Crimmy]

I think there's a certain point when doing "favors" constantly becomes "being taken advantage of". Maybe not where you're from?

And there's also a certain point in which some sentences are no longer "smart" and they become "offensive".:smallannoyed:
So, meh, whatever, get pissed off if you feel like it.


Doing something that is a considerable amount of work and saves a lot of money for someone who is not a close friend is in my book more than a favor. But cultural differences may come into play here.

Then again, favors vary in friends and types.
Close friends = anything
Friends = More than your average Joe.
Average Joe (not the playgrounder) = Yeah, I can certainly pass the salt to you.

@Cobalt: You proved your point, good sir. From now on, we mexicans will be asking for 2 thousand pesos each time somebody asks for a glass of water.:smallamused:

[Maximum Zersk]

@Cobalt: You proved your point, good sir. From now on, we mexicans will be asking for 2 thousand pesos each time somebody asks for a glass of water.:smallamused:

Yeah, 200 US(?)D for an Operating System is totally the same situation as 2 000 pesos for a glass of water.

Don't ever take me seriously, please. :P

[BritishBill]

So, I do a lot of IT stuff for my girlfriend's family, being an IT guy. I've been out of work for a long time, as well, so my funds are dwindling.

I've done a lot of random stuff for her brother. Mostly "Zovc, I want to play this game, get it for me." That's usually how he asks, although he asks my girlfriend to ask me--she asks nicely. So generally, he seems to--for some reason--think that I am obligated to help him.

Now, he wants me to install Windows 7 on his laptop so that he can stop using my girlfriend's laptop to do nothing special (yeah, he usually has me put games on her laptop so that he can play them). This is the text message I sent my girlfriend as a response to her asking me for him, "Tell [name] I'll do it for free, but it'd be nice if he could give me some money for it. Windows 7 is expensive." I felt like the whole "I'm saving you at least $200, having lunch would be nice" vibe would be polite and modest enough, especially considering I EXPLICITLY SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY ME, but he didn't say anything when she told him that.

Two days later, I ask her what's going on with his laptop and he's having someone else do it for him.

To wrap it up, he could already have Windows 7 on his laptop for free, but because I modestly asked if he could give me any amount of money that he felt like my time and effort was worth, he is going to have someone else do a favor for him less promptly (and possibly competently).

So, is it reasonable for me to be very offended by this situation?

I would. He is a potential future member of your family that treats you like dirt. Asking for payment for a two hundred dollar installation is not out of the question at all in my opinion

[Dogmantra]

Hmmm... Maybe he really appreciates what you're doing for him, but he's worried that since now you've said it, he'll look like a jerk if he doesn't pay you anything/much for it, so he's gone to get someone else so that he doesn't have to deal with the whole situation.

He might not be, but then again, he might.

[Crimmy]

Yeah, 200 US(?)D for an Operating System is totally the same situation as 2 000 pesos for a glass of water.
Don't ever take me seriously, please. :P

Well, not right now, but we'll see in a couple of decades, when we're missing drinking water. (I'm not taking you seriously, I swear! :smallbiggrin:)

[Jack Squat]

Be glad he went somewhere else. if there's anything to be offended about, it's that he expected you to get him software for free. It's one thing if you offered, but since he asked, it's perfectly reasonable to ask for some possible compensation for something that you have to pay for. Also, this doesn't really fit into being IT, as much as it is just getting him stuff.

Crimmy; this isn't really analogous to someone asking to get something off of a top shelf. It's more of a "hey, can you go to the store and pick up some milk/fill up my gas/etc." If you'd do this for someone multiple times without asking for anything in return, then you're a better man than me. At the very least, I'd expect them to be willing to do the same to me, which it doesn't sound like was the case here.

[Crimmy]

Crimmy; this isn't really analogous to someone asking to get something off of a top shelf. It's more of a "hey, can you go to the store and pick up some milk/fill up my gas/etc." If you'd do this for someone multiple times without asking for anything in return, then you're a better man than me. At the very least, I'd expect them to be willing to do the same to me, which it doesn't sound like was the case here.

Bolded part: You missed my post entirely, and just read parts of it. I adressed that idea as an example, but I gave an explicit explanation of how a favor works.

Underlined: Thanks, I do it for most of my friends. They usually tell me not to, and they offer payment. That's the difference in "getting something in return".

If he asks as a favor, nice. If he gives you something for the effort, and you didn't have to ask, even better.

But if you have to ask, you're not doing it for the pleasure of being a nice person. You're doing it for the perks, the profit, the gains, the loot, tEh MoneYz, for gil, golds, zennies, whatever. But you're not being a nice person.

[Jack Squat]

Bolded part: You missed my post entirely, and just read parts of it. I adressed that idea as an example, but I gave an explicit explanation of how a favor works.

I did address it, but I suppose I didn't feel the need to spell it out. My time is free, and there's no reason in my mind to ask compensation for it. I can always say no if I think it's going to take too long. It gets a little more complicated once money is involved, but a general rule is if it's over $20, I'm basically running your errands for you, so I should be reimbursed. Obviously different if I offer.


If he asks as a favor, nice. If he gives you something for the effort, and you didn't have to ask, even better.

But if you have to ask, you're not doing it for the pleasure of being a nice person. You're doing it for the perks, the profit, the gains, the loot, tEh MoneYz, for gil, golds, zennies, whatever. But you're not being a nice person.

Wrong. You're doing it for money if you're doing it for profit. In this case, Zovc would still be taking a considerable loss if all he was expecting was to perhaps be taken out to lunch. At worst that this can be interpreted, he was offering to install it for free and he was just wanting his girlfriends brother to pay for the software. It's not an unreasonable demand, wanting someone to pay for their own stuff.

[Castel]

I dunno, that's the kind of mentality we have here in Mexico when we think of "favors".

What part of Mexico are you from? Because installing a 200 dollars OS for free, for a person who you aren't even friends with goes well beyond the definition of "favor" here in Guadalajara.

[dehro]

This is the text message I sent my girlfriend as a response to her asking me for him, "Tell [name] I'll do it for free, but it'd be nice if he could give me some money for it. Windows 7 is expensive." I felt like the whole "I'm saving you at least $200, having lunch would be nice" vibe would be polite and modest enough, especially considering I EXPLICITLY SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY ME,

the 2 highlighted bits are a bit contradictory. yes you said he didn't HAVE to, but by mentioning money you implicitly put him in the situation whereby if he didn't pay you ( as in money, he probably didn't think of lunch), he'd look like a jerk.
also, are you sure your girlfriend hasn't put her foot in it telling her brother off for taking advantage?
aside from the fact that previous experiences in the same field with him kinda already show him to be a jerk who has taken advantage of you..mentioning money kinda brought that to an end.

let's try coming at it from a different angle: so long as he asks you something for free he can't really question what, when and if he gets it..but if you start asking for money he might feel entitled to some guarantee, a receipt of some description, in other words, a formal client-supplier "contract"... with the consequence that if something goes wrong or there are problems with the installation, he suddenly finds himself into an uncomfortable position with his sister's boyfriend.
never mix money and family if it's possible at all.
if that was his angle for going somewere else, I can understand him.

either that, or he's just a cheapskate who runs a mile when money is asked off him (the whole asking through his sister tends to point in that direction, in my book).

either way, you're better off now he's gone somewhere else.
as for whether you should take offence..that's for you to decide, I'd say it rarely ever is worth it, to get in a strop about something.

[Crimmy]

What part of Mexico are you from? Because installing a 200 dollars OS for free, for a person who you aren't even friends with goes well beyond the definition of "favor" here in Guadalajara.

Then again, who pays 200 dollars for an OS?
The most I've payed for an OS was about 600 pesos (more or less 50 dollars)

Also, did I say I installed a 200 dollar OS for a guy who's not my friend? No.
You're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. I answered to what JS said, which is:

"hey, can you go to the store and pick up some milk/fill up my gas/etc." If you'd do this for someone multiple times without asking for anything in return, then you're a better man than me.

See, nothing about a 200 dollar OS...

So, I'm from Morelos, and in here it's perfectly fine to go and buy some milk, or eggs, or stuff for a friend, expecting nothing in return.

[Boci]

So, I'm from Morelos, and in here it's perfectly fine to go and buy some milk, or eggs, or stuff for a friend, expecting nothing in return.

So am I, as long as I'm using my friends money. Its either "Can I borrow a tenner" or "Can you go shopping for me". If it both, you had better be injured or something.

[Crimmy]

So am I, as long as I'm using my friends money. Its either "Can I borrow a tenner" or "Can you go shopping for me". If it both, you had better be injured or something.

Then you're obviously unlike me. Too bad, it seems free will and generosity do not mix well in you.

[Boci]

Then you're obviously unlike me. Too bad, it seems free will and generosity do not mix well in you.

So despite the fact that I am willing to go shopping for my friends, I have no/little free will and generosity because I expect them to pay for their own stuff?
Also, for context: I am a stident and in 3 years if everything goes well, I will graduate with 20k debts, so I am kinda stingy when it comes to finacial favours, even to close friends.

[Hallavast]

OP: There was probably a miscommunication. If he wants something done for free, perhaps he thought you might be able to (illegally) get it for free. In which case this would be like asking for a bit of your time (not unreasonable). It also asks you to break the law, but I won't touch that. I'll just leave it at: you can be offended if you think asking someone to commit internet piracy is out of line. But that is rather separate from whether or not someone else will do it for him (obviously for a cheaper price). After all, should Walmart be offended by me if I choose not to buy one of their products that I could get for free or cheap from some shady guy on the street?

DO NOT let something this trivial start or fuel an argument with your girlfriend.

[Castel]

Then again, who pays 200 dollars for an OS?
The most I've payed for an OS was about 600 pesos (more or less 50 dollars)
Well yeah, but things are really different in the US for stuff like that. If done legally, I mean. And it really is worth around $200 (depending on the version). (http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/windows-7-pricing-announced-cheaper-than-vista.ars)



Also, did I say I installed a 200 dollar OS for a guy who's not my friend? No.[...]Ok. Then why is it so bad for Zovc to feel offended about this whole thing? You yourself said:


Then again, favors vary in friends and types.
Close friends = anything
Friends = More than your average Joe.
Average Joe (not the playgrounder) = Yeah, I can certainly pass the salt to you.His GF's brother certainly doesn't sound like a close friend. Or even a friend, really. Why shouldn't Zovc be offended?


So, I'm from Morelos, and in here it's perfectly fine to go and buy some milk, or eggs, or stuff for a friend, expecting nothing in return.
Completely different here in Guadalajara. At least with every person I've ever met here. Or elsewhere, really.:smallconfused:

I don't remember ever going to Morelos, though, so I wouldn't really know, I guess.

[Dacia Brabant]

Gah, how old is your girlfriend's brother? I seriously hope he isn't an adult, because I can't imagine a grown man ordering someone they barely know to "get such-and-such expensive item for me because I want it I want it I want it!--oh and do all the work to set it up for me too." I mean really, who does that?

[Crimmy]

Well yeah, but things are really different in the US for stuff like that. If done legally, I mean. And it really is worth around $200 (depending on the version). (http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/windows-7-pricing-announced-cheaper-than-vista.ars)

Legally, it's an original Windows XP I've been using for ever, every time my PC borks down.

His GF's brother certainly doesn't sound like a close friend. Or even a friend, really. Why shouldn't Zovc be offended?

I thought he was a close friend. My bad

Completely different here in Guadalajara. At least with every person I've ever met here. Or elsewhere, really.:smallconfused:

I don't remember ever going to Morelos, though, so I wouldn't really know, I guess.

Morelos is still kinda... rural? I was born in Puebla, which is, if you didn't know, a very fresa state. But I've been living here for, like, 11 years. So it's kinda grown into me.

:smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

Has a legal copy of windows always been so damned expensive? :smallconfused:

[Maximum Zersk]

Has a legal copy of windows always been so damned expensive? :smallconfused:

Just wait 'till you see Apple's products. :smalltongue:

[742]

everyone in my family uses their computer with the "black box" philosophy, and i think only one of them ever applied an update encrypted a wireless network(i am firmly of the belief that unencrypted wireless networks are potentially dangerous and should not be legal) or installed antivirus software without my help doing it for them, so whenever anything goes wrong they blame me and say it was deliberate.

i deal with ungrateful people like this:
"if you me to fix your computer you have two options:
1. worship me, beg, grovel at my feet pathetic mortal person who has not yet made it into the twentieth century!
2. pay me"

and keep in mind, im just a nerd, not even an IT professional. im also evil EVIL, and i think computer ownership should require a license; which should in itself require 500 hours of education.

[Eloel]

computer ownership should require a license; which should in itself require 500 hours of education.

Quoted for truth.

[Coidzor]

Just wait 'till you see Apple's products. :smalltongue:

Well, IIRC their word processor alone costs something like 50 dollars for it. I'm away from my mac though, and it's an older, second hand mac from the last generation.

[Rivus]

People who take free Tech assistance for granted, do not deserve free Tech assistance.

That is true for most things in life.

[thubby]

Has a legal copy of windows always been so damned expensive? :smallconfused:

depends on the version and where you get it. you can get ultimate online for ~100.

it makes sense, really. it's a lot of work to make an OS. but everyone only every need 1 copy, generally speaking.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Lets see:

1. He has a long history of having you buy (?) and install stuff on his computer for free.

2. He wants Windows 7 on the same terms.

3. When you request some form of contribution he asks someone else, and doesn't tell you.

Well... I wouldn't be offended by (2) and (3) on their own, or even (1) on its own.

However, in the light of (2) and (3) I might well get very annoyed about (1). That sort of attitude would result in further requests being politely refused.


I do a lot of IT for family friends, the odd local charity and so on. I don't expect payment (in fact my contract explicitly forbids it, but that's another story).

On the other hand, the people I do the work for understand that it is a good idea to apply at least some form of quid quo pro. I have been invited to some charity events, the odd bottle of mead has found its way to me, and my mother-in-law is a very good cook.

[Coidzor]

depends on the version and where you get it. you can get ultimate online for ~100.

it makes sense, really. it's a lot of work to make an OS. but everyone only every need 1 copy, generally speaking.

Not really. I mean, it's still just Windows of all things. Or is Windows 7 finally a good product?

Now at least I know why everyone was stealing/pirating it all the time in the last generations of windows.

[Tirian]

it makes sense, really. it's a lot of work to make an OS. but everyone only every need 1 copy, generally speaking.

By contrast, Linux is a family of operating systems that are free (unless you are running a server or want extraordinary support) and where upgrading does not require that you upgrade all of your software and appreciably change your workflow based on someone else's notion of how you should be doing work.

Microsoft has done some amazing things over the years, but far and away the most incredible is that they trained everyone in the world to give them $200 every three years in exchange for an unfamiliar interface, and then an additional charge for a new business software suite that contains new functionality that they don't need.

[Syka]

By contrast, Linux is a family of operating systems that are free (unless you are running a server or want extraordinary support) and where upgrading does not require that you upgrade all of your software and appreciably change your workflow based on someone else's notion of how you should be doing work.

Microsoft has done some amazing things over the years, but far and away the most incredible is that they trained everyone in the world to give them $200 every three years in exchange for an unfamiliar interface, and then an additional charge for a new business software suite that contains new functionality that they don't need.

I've never had to buy an OS myself, but I also don't build computers myself. I buy from stores and the like. Probably explains why I have XP, Vista, and 7, but that's beside the point. I've never once paid for an OS.

I've only once paid for a suite of business software. It was last month to get Office Ultimate 2007 (with the 2010 upgrade free), and it was only 60$. For the (several) years prior I was making do with an old copy of 2003 that my dad had lying around combined with OpenOffice. I only caved 'cause I needed a copy of Office for my MBA (OpenOffice is nice until you have compatibility issues and can't get the programs to do what you need them to do...OOCalc doesn't do ANOVA, for example, without an add on that I couldn't get to work for the life of me). You can bet your butt I'll be using Office 2010 for quite some time.


If they've done any training, it's been to businesses as a whole. By requiring certain programs and functionality, you pretty much HAVE to pay for certain things or figure out a work around. Heck, my Army friend is going to have to get a netbook because there are some Army documents that will. not. open on her Mac.


That said, I like Windows 7 for one very, very lovely reason. Snap. I have found the snap feature to be so incredibly useful in my work.

[Anteros]

I didn't really get the vibe that he's been paying for these games/software. I'm not going to touch on the issue of whether piracy is right or wrong, but really...if you're pirating it then all he's asking you for is to spend a few minutes of your time installing something on your own girlfriend's computer.

It would certainly be nice of him to offer to pay you something for your help...but personally I wouldn't expect it. Getting upset because he had someone else do it is just silly.

[Tirian]

Installing an operating system isn't a few minutes, and is significantly more than getting something off a high shelf. It's the better part of an hour if nothing goes wrong, and to the degree that you aren't familiar with the components of the computer the chances that something will go wrong increases.

I hope that it is clear to people that getting a professional IT person to do IT support on your computer, friend-wise, is somewhere between picking you up from the airport and helping you move between apartments, and therefore the informal payment for it should be somewhere between ice cream and dinner at a nice restaurant.

[Catch]

To the OP, it sounds like you're not quite paying full retail price for the software you're offering. I don't want to know, but if my suspicions are correct, you might as well choose not to feel slighted, especially if you didn't happen to pay anything for the software you acquired.

Regardless of the source, people are cheap and stingy for no good reason. There's an name for it, actually: Free Software User Entitlement Syndrome.


By contrast, Linux is a family of operating systems that are free (unless you are running a server or want extraordinary support) and where upgrading does not require that you upgrade all of your software and appreciably change your workflow based on someone else's notion of how you should be doing work.

Microsoft has done some amazing things over the years, but far and away the most incredible is that they trained everyone in the world to give them $200 every three years in exchange for an unfamiliar interface, and then an additional charge for a new business software suite that contains new functionality that they don't need.

Linux is also not at all user-friendly and can have difficulties performing tasks that are simple on other computers. Like, say, playing a flash video, or recognizing a USB drive. (Before anyone gets touchy, I'm posting this from a laptop running Ubuntu.) The upshot is that you can do all your tech support yourself (or is that a downside?) since most problems can be solved by a Google search. I know Linux users like to tout their distro of choice (and their specific distro) as superior to the overpriced buggy operating systems sold by Microsoft and Apple, but if you're not prepared or proficient enough to regularly use a command-line interface and independently solve the problems you will have (and you will have them), Linux is not for you.


I've never had to buy an OS myself, but I also don't build computers myself. I buy from stores and the like. Probably explains why I have XP, Vista, and 7, but that's beside the point. I've never once paid for an OS.

Technically, you have, when it's included in the price of a new computer. The store or factory doesn't have to buy a new copy of the software for every computer they sell, but the software license still costs something.

[FinalJustice]

I don't want to point fingers, but I would bet this guy went to someone who could pirate Windows 7 for him for very cheap. I'd ask your girlfriend is anything is wrong with her brother. If yes, I'd talk to him and deal with it. If no, I wouldn't take it personally, the fella found someone cheaper than you, objectivelly, it's good for him and for you, since you won't pay for his Windows (which, IMO, you should have never done, in the first place).

[Zovc]

Well... I wouldn't be offended by (2) and (3) on their own, or even (1) on its own.

However, in the light of (2) and (3) I might well get very annoyed about (1). That sort of attitude would result in further requests being politely refused.


I do a lot of IT for family friends, the odd local charity and so on. I don't expect payment (in fact my contract explicitly forbids it, but that's another story).

On the other hand, the people I do the work for understand that it is a good idea to apply at least some form of quid quo pro. I have been invited to some charity events, the odd bottle of mead has found its way to me, and my mother-in-law is a very good cook.

Indeed, I wouldn't get angry over any of them by themselves, and I was fine with even (1), simply because it was my girlfriend's brother, I felt somewhat obligated, and I tend to help people as often as I can even without compensation. (In spite of however anyone wants to stereotype me, I'm a very generous person, but I'm also very, very poor, and I think after I've helped you at least ten times, you can start helping me, too. Especially when I have no real reason to help you in the first place.)


Gah, how old is your girlfriend's brother? I seriously hope he isn't an adult, because I can't imagine a grown man ordering someone they barely know to "get such-and-such expensive item for me because I want it I want it I want it!--oh and do all the work to set it up for me too." I mean really, who does that?

Definitely an adult. He's older than I am, and I'm 20.


Installing an operating system isn't a few minutes, and is significantly more than getting something off a high shelf. It's the better part of an hour if nothing goes wrong, and to the degree that you aren't familiar with the components of the computer the chances that something will go wrong increases.

I hope that it is clear to people that getting a professional IT person to do IT support on your computer, friend-wise, is somewhere between picking you up from the airport and helping you move between apartments, and therefore the informal payment for it should be somewhere between ice cream and dinner at a nice restaurant.

Thanks. Indeed, all I was trying to ask for was "between ice cream and dinner at a nice restaurant."


OP: There was probably a miscommunication. If he wants something done for free, perhaps he thought you might be able to (illegally) get it for free. In which case this would be like asking for a bit of your time (not unreasonable). It also asks you to break the law, but I won't touch that. I'll just leave it at: you can be offended if you think asking someone to commit internet piracy is out of line. But that is rather separate from whether or not someone else will do it for him (obviously for a cheaper price). After all, should Walmart be offended by me if I choose not to buy one of their products that I could get for free or cheap from some shady guy on the street?

DO NOT let something this trivial start or fuel an argument with your girlfriend.

My girlfriend is convinced there was no miscommunication (and I don't argue with my girlfriend), but rather her brother is "just that stingy."

The fact of the matter is, I have acquired software for him numerous times, and many times he has simply gone "Oh, [this] isn't the one I wanted, get me [that] instead."


Then again, who pays 200 dollars for an OS?
The most I've payed for an OS was about 600 pesos (more or less 50 dollars)

Also, did I say I installed a 200 dollar OS for a guy who's not my friend? No.
You're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

See, nothing about a 200 dollar OS...

First of all, if I'm not mistaken, Windows XP has never been as expensive as Windows 7, and it's highly likely you bought Windows XP far into its lifespan, where as Windows 7 is, what, a year old?

This guy is not my friend. It's as simple as that. Whether or not anyone is putting words in your mouth, you're assuming that I like this person at all.

Check this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116717&cm_re=windows_7_professional-_-32-116-717-_-Product) out!

[Hallavast]

Indeed, I wouldn't get angry over any of them by themselves, and I was fine with even (1), simply because it was my girlfriend's brother, I felt somewhat obligated, and I tend to help people as often as I can even without compensation. (In spite of however anyone wants to stereotype me, I'm a very generous person, but I'm also very, very poor, and I think after I've helped you at least ten times, you can start helping me, too. Especially when I have no real reason to help you in the first place.)



Definitely an adult. He's older than I am, and I'm 20.



Thanks. Indeed, all I was trying to ask for was "between ice cream and dinner at a nice restaurant."



My girlfriend is convinced there was no miscommunication (and I don't argue with my girlfriend), but rather her brother is "just that stingy."

The fact of the matter is, I have acquired software for him numerous times, and many times he has simply gone "Oh, [this] isn't the one I wanted, get me [that] instead."



First of all, if I'm not mistaken, Windows XP has never been as expensive as Windows 7, and it's highly likely you bought Windows XP far into its lifespan, where as Windows 7 is, what, a year old?

This guy is not my friend. It's as simple as that. Whether or not anyone is putting words in your mouth, you're assuming that I like this person at all.

Check this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116717&cm_re=windows_7_professional-_-32-116-717-_-Product) out!

1) You sound like you have a very nice life (no arguments with girlfriend). :smalltongue:

2) If you don't like the guy, then you have to really ask yourself why you even do things for him in the first place (I would bet that this is the root of your resentment of him).

3) Getting angry or offended is useless. The two of you obviously don't like each other, so why would you be mad when he tries to take advantage of your relationship with his sister? It's not so uncommon, afterall.

4) The fact that he got what he was after from someone else should not be an issue.

[Coidzor]

And, when in doubt, console yourself with sweet, sweet makeouts.

[absolmorph]

@Cobalt: You proved your point, good sir. From now on, we mexicans will be asking for 2 thousand pesos each time somebody asks for a glass of water.:smallamused:
You must keep your water in really weird places if getting it is that tough.

Also, Coidzor has the best point so far in this thread. It's pure genius!

[Crimmy]

First of all, if I'm not mistaken, Windows XP has never been as expensive as Windows 7, and it's highly likely you bought Windows XP far into its lifespan, where as Windows 7 is, what, a year old?

This guy is not my friend. It's as simple as that. Whether or not anyone is putting words in your mouth, you're assuming that I like this person at all.

I didn't assume that, either, so once again, don't get too worked up about it.
Also, for what I've seen in people, and experienced so far, people tend to be stingy if you "ask for remuneration" in such a dodgy way.

When you say out loud that you're in no financial position to go around buying an expensive OS, people might not get so mad. I mean, what's so bad about a guy that tells you "I'm sorry, I can't, you see, I'm broke.".

Also, I know that taking advantage of somebody is, indeed, something to be angry about. But then, how come you've just become offended by that? I would have assumed that you were already offended, and this was simply the drop that filled the cup.


You must keep your water in really weird places if getting it is that tough.

Well, I have to go by mule to a far mountain on the East. From there I have to ask the Great Quetzal to lend me his Wings, and then I travel North.
In the Caves of Dripping Glory I then have to take out a vial, and fill it three time, while I sing a tune from Elder Times, to keep the water dripping from the highest peaks of the Mountain of Adoration.

Then I take the bus back, and I bring the water.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

Well, I have to go by mule to a far mountain on the East. From there I have to ask the Great Quetzal to lend me his Wings, and then I travel North.
In the Caves of Dripping Glory I then have to take out a vial, and fill it three time, while I sing a tune from Elder Times, to keep the water dripping from the highest peaks of the Mountain of Adoration.

Then I take the bus back, and I bring the water.

Its reasons like this that sales of bottled water keep increasing.

[Crimmy]

Its reasons like this that sales of bottled water keep increasing.

I bet they're not singing to the mountain...:smallannoyed:

[OwlbearUltimate]

Whenever anyone asks me for computer help, I tell them to delete System 32. After that they usually stop bugging me :wink:

[Felixaar]

Yeah, it was a bad call on his part, but you're pretty much going to have to deal with that kind of stuff if you want to fit in with a family. If you think its important talk to him about it, if not, don't. Eitherway, get past it and move on.

[Mystic Muse]

Whenever anyone asks me for computer help, I tell them to delete System 32. After that they usually stop bugging me :wink:

Uh, so if somebody asks you for help with their computer you tell them to destroy the system? Why?

[KilltheToy]

Uh, so if somebody asks you for help with their computer you tell them to destroy the system? Why?

It's a joke. If people go to a certain imageboard with a computer question, they'll usually answer with "you should delete sys32. That fixes everything."

[2xMachina]

It's a joke. If people go to a certain imageboard with a computer question, they'll usually answer with "you should delete sys32. That fixes everything."

Or run a magnet through the hard disk.

[kusje]

So some dude stealing a copy is Windows is getting offended that his "client" doesn't want to pay him for it? Irony.

[Mystic Muse]

So some dude stealing a copy is Windows is getting offended that his "client" doesn't want to pay him for it? Irony.

Umm, no. The OP fully intended to pay the price for a new copy of windows seven (Which is around $200) and all he wanted in return is some lunch.

[kusje]

Umm, no. The OP fully intended to pay the price for a new copy of windows seven (Which is around $200) and all he wanted in return is some lunch.

That sure isn't the impression he's giving me. He's used the words "acquire" and he said he was asked to install multiple software for the brother. At no point of time did he mention buying it on the guy's behalf or paying out of his own pocket to do so.

I'm clearly not the only person in this thread who suspects that he is pirating software and the OP has replied to some of those people without clarifying matters. It does appear to me that he is deliberately brushing over those allegations because he is guilty.

If my conjecture is wrong, then I apologize but otherwise, the OP is no less than a scum than his girlfriend's brother.

[Mystic Muse]

Windows 7 is expensive."

This line implies that he's spending money on it. I don't think he'd bring this up if he was just downloading it.

[kusje]

This line implies that he's spending money on it. I don't think he'd bring this up if he was just downloading it.

I think he just brought that up to let us know that he was ripping microsoft out of big bucks. Consider how he phrases the entire of the opening post:


Zovc, I want to play this game, get it for me

"Get it for me" implies that he could get it for free; if he would have to pay for it, I'm sure the brother would have asked him to buy it for him.


install Windows 7 on his laptop

put games on her laptop

I modestly asked if he could give me any amount of money that he felt like my time and effort was worth

Again, no mention of paying for anything. He only asked for his "time and effort" to be paid for; surely he'd mention the money he'd fork out if he had to pay $200?


he's having someone else do it for him

Where would he find another sucker to buy him a free copy of windows 7 and install it for him? Notice how he said, "do it for him". Yet again, no mention of payment to Microsoft.

If you're still unconvinced, I'm sure we could slowly dissect how he phrased his other posts and come up with the same results.

[Crimmy]

kusje, though that makes sense, my guess is you're looking at it from the viewpoint that he's ripping stuff. If you view it from a neutral point of view, you'll see it's simply a way of speaking.

Don't get me wrong, I still disagree with the OP in almost everything, but still.

[kusje]

kusje, though that makes sense, my guess is you're looking at it from the viewpoint that he's ripping stuff. If you view it from a neutral point of view, you'll see it's simply a way of speaking.

Don't get me wrong, I still disagree with the OP in almost everything, but still.

I did look at it from a neutral viewpoint. I started off knowing nothing about the OP other than what was posted by him in this thread; how much more neutral can you get?

[Aedilred]

I feel you could have phrased your request in perhaps a more diplomatic fashion, thus minimising the potential for misunderstanding, although their reaction isn't really on.

I don't know what the relationship between you and your girlfriend's family is like, but I always regarded my ex's family as a sort of halfway house between family and friends. That is, if they/I wanted a hand with anything, no problem, but it'd be nice if we got something in return at some point. That something, though, was never money- that seems a bit crass. A gift, a treat, a favour in return, and so on, yes, but not money.

I think the problem here is the confusion- in your own mind as much as anything- between the financial cost incurred to you from the Windows 7 installation, and the time and effort incurred on your part to perform it. It's perfectly reasonable to expect financial recompense for the former; for the latter, you'd expect gratitude and maybe a favour returned at some point, but not money.

(That is, of course, unless he was specifically hiring your services as an IT consultant and asking you to take time out of your normal work (rather than asking you as a friend/in-law to take care of it one afternoon for him if you're not too busy), in which case you might offer him mates' rates, but it would still be expected that he'd pay you. I gather that's not the case, though. It's a complicated relationship, but there is a perverse kind of logic to it.)

As I say, though, you could possibly have been a bit more diplomatic about it. Especially since he seems like the sort of guy who needs a bit of a prod about social graces- frankly, I'm surprised his parents/your gf haven't already pointed out that he should be repaying you in some way. It sounds, too, like she suffered a bit of a natural one on diplomacy and simply relayed your message to him. I presume it was intended to be interpeted and passed on as a "helpful suggestion" from "her", rather than a demand for payment from you.

To get someone else to do it without telling you is a bit off, though, and you're right to take (some) offence at that. Really, though, there are only two ways to deal with people who take your time for granted but you have no option about seeing. The first is to carry on doing what they ask without a hint of complaint, in the hope that it'll bring you inner peace and eventually shame them into changing their ways; the second is, after your first few efforts go unappreciated, simply making polite excuses every time they ask you to do anything without offer of repayment.

[KenderWizard]

Have you tried talking directly to him? You asked him what the story was with the laptop, so you can presumably see him, and maybe just say simply that you don't want things to be bad between the two of you. You were put out that he was asking someone else for the same favour without informing you, and you're happy to help him out now and then, but you're broke and can't be as generous as someone with a lot of time and money.

Then if he doesn't respond in a mature way, at least you tried your best, and the ball's in his court.

[dps]

Then you're obviously unlike me. Too bad, it seems free will and generosity do not mix well in you.

OK, a couple of questions:

First, do I understand correctly that you often do grocery shopping for your friends, not just in the sense of going to the store for them, but actually paying for their food out of your own pocket?

Second, what's free will got to do with the topic?

[Crimmy]

OK, a couple of questions:

First, do I understand correctly that you often do grocery shopping for your friends, not just in the sense of going to the store for them, but actually paying for their food out of your own pocket?

Second, what's free will got to do with the topic?

Okay, in order:
I already answered that. Yes, I tend to do stuff like that. Paying for a restaurant bill, buying stuff, expecting nothing in exchange.

Free will has a lot to do in here. I can or cannot do something like buying stuff for a friend without worrying about recompensation.
I can or cannot do a favor to a friend, like installing an OS.
I already understand it is, indeed, something expensive (because it is Win7), but it's still free will: "Do I wanna pay all that to install this copy of Windows 7?" "Am I gonna do it?" It's all about free will. If you want to do it, you will do it. If it's a favor, and you still wanna do it, you look for nothing in exchange (save the always needed "Thank you").