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AtS
2010-07-08, 02:18 AM
Since I'm not a savant of game balance or theory or anything of that sort, I was wondering if you guys could assess an idea I'd had.

How would condensing all of the "Improved _______" feats, the ones that deal with the special attacks in the PHB, in to one Improved Tactical feat affect game balance? The way things are now, it's too feat intensive to get good at more than one special combat action - but I think it would give melee types much more flexibility if all of these feats were condensed into one superfeat. Essentially, Improved Tactical gives you a +4 bonus on the opposed roll for a Special Attack, and you don't provoke an AoO when you initiate the ability, along with whatever other special actions the original Improved ______ ability offered.

All in all, I'm proposing that Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Grapple, Improved Overrun, Improved Shield Bash, Improved Sunder, and Improved Trip all be consolidated. The feat itself wouldn't have an ability score or feat prerequisite.

As for prerequisites farther up the feat trees, you could just simply lower the prerequisite feat down a step in the tree + Improved Tactical. For instance, Shock Trooper, which normally had the prerequisite of Improved Bull Rush, now has Improved Tactical and Power Attack as it's prerequisites. You would also have to pass on the ability score restrictions to this next level of feats, so the full prerequisites for Shock Trooper would be BAB +6, STR 13, Power Attack, Improved Tactical.

Since melee needs any help it can get in catching up with casters, I think this doesn't present too many balance issues, although I'm relying on you guys to catch them for me, since you're all so good at that. :smallwink:

Perhaps upping the requirements for the feat to BAB +3 or something would be prudent, but that might even be unneeded.

Math_Mage
2010-07-08, 02:30 AM
It would be a must-take feat for melee classes.

From a flavor perspective, there seems to be a division between Improved Bull Rush/Overrun/Grapple and Improved Trip/Disarm/Feint. Shield Bash and Sunder seem separate from both these categories, though that's debatable. Maybe a division into two or more tactical feats would be appropriate.

Gan The Grey
2010-07-08, 02:34 AM
It would be a must-take feat for melee classes.

From a flavor perspective, there seems to be a division between Improved Bull Rush/Overrun/Grapple and Improved Trip/Disarm/Feint. Shield Bash and Sunder seem separate from both these categories, though that's debatable. Maybe a division into two or more tactical feats would be appropriate.

Math_Mage beat me to it. There are a bunch tactical feats that already grant multiple new actions. Just make two or three of those types of feats.

PId6
2010-07-08, 07:18 AM
I would probably merge Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Improved Grapple, and Improved Overrun together, and call it something like "Brute Tactics," which would require Power Attack. Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, and Improved Feint would be consolidated into "Precise Tactics," which would require Combat Expertise. Shield Bash would be separate, but probably merged with some of those shield feats in PHB2.

Morph Bark
2010-07-08, 07:47 AM
Could certainly be an idea, if done right, perhaps in the manner PId6 described. My group already plays with Weapon Focus/Specialization, Improved Critical and Quick Draw merged into one for specific weapon groups (though the latter two can be taken seperately to apply to all weapons).

Mongoose87
2010-07-08, 07:52 AM
I would probably merge Improved Bull Rush, Improved Sunder, Improved Grapple, and Improved Overrun together, and call it something like "Brute Tactics," which would require Power Attack. Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, and Improved Feint would be consolidated into "Precise Tactics," which would require Combat Expertise. Shield Bash would be separate, but probably merged with some of those shield feats in PHB2.

I endorse this approach.