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quiet1mi
2010-07-08, 02:34 AM
My Gm is frustrated at the lack of teamwork that our party has, He says that we act like a collection of individuals that get in each other's way.

He has tasked me, The Chaotic Neutral (Evil) Beguiler, with encouraging team work... obviously I need to do this outside the game. What are some things that I could do to encourage thinking beyond, "I attack, I cast enervation, I cast Fireball, etc..."

I have been trying to set a good example by doing things like cast haste on the party, shadow conjuration III 1d4+1 ravens to aid another, using my wand of benign transposition to pull people out of a grapple with Freedom of movement on, Casting Solid fog to eliminate half of the combatants...

Unfortunately for the exception of the GM, my efforts go unnoticed. I am just that person that is not doing anything in combat...

Help me Playgrounders, you are my only hope...

JeminiZero
2010-07-08, 02:48 AM
He has tasked me, The Chaotic Neutral (Evil) Beguiler, with encouraging team work... obviously I need to do this outside the game. What are some things that I could do to encourage thinking beyond, "I attack, I cast enervation, I cast Fireball, etc..."

Question: Is the problem among your groups that
1) The Players don't know HOW to work together (i.e. the Wizard thinks casting fireball is a good move) or
2) The Players don't WANT to work together (i.e. the Wizard has no qualms about casting fireball on the enemy even if the fighter is in the way).

The solution to (1) involves pointing your group to handbooks.

The solution for 2 involves talking with the party. (Failing that, setting up a prize for Most Useful Party Member. Everyone can vote for someone other than themselves. :smallbiggrin:)

W3bDragon
2010-07-08, 04:49 AM
Although the your party's willingness to play as a team is a strong prerequisite, there are plenty of things that your GM can do to encourage teamwork.

1. Challenge the party: Reduce the number of encounters that your party can breeze through and increase the ones where the party must cooperate to achieve a victory. So, less CR = party encounters and more CR = party+3 encounters. If your party can achieve success without cooperating, there is no incentive to do so.

2. Give the party time to plan: That is, even if the encounter wouldn't normally allow time to plan, let the PCs do so. This will allow them to plan their initial positions and actions with each other in mind. For example the GM says, "Ok guys, the mind flayers are bearing down on you. This is a tough encounter in which you could TPK, so plan carefully. You have 5 mins."

3. Freebie teamwork benefits: Assign or allow access to Teamwork Benefits from the PHII and DMGII.

As for what you can do, ask people to assign themselves roles and stick to them. For example, if the wizard says his aoe is the best of the party, then ask him to Web then Fireball all the small goblins, as opposed to focusing on the big Ogre that the party fighter+rogue can handle.

Also, keep it friendly. Don't say "Do your job damnit, stop doing other stuff!" and instead say "Man, your aoe is awesome, keep doing it, we can take down this one big guy while you slaughter the rest"

Good luck.

Cyrion
2010-07-08, 10:20 AM
Dominate Person (or monster). The party will be a functioning team...

Seriously though, I think you're doing all you can through your character by modeling good behavior. Beyond that, I think it's more of a DM problem than a character problem. He needs to build challenges that require the party to work together in order to achieve success. As W3bDragon said, without incentive the party's not going to change.

quiet1mi
2010-07-08, 11:05 AM
The problem is that I could solve most CR+3 problems with just me and the Fighter... Mechanically it is difficult to top my ability for support, the fighter just power attacks them into oblivion while I watch his back, which is fine...

More enemies: Solid Fog, Mass Whelm, Legion of Sentinels, Slow.
Boost: Haste, Summon monster III.
Defense: Halt, Hesitate, greater mirror image, dispel magic.

What do you guys think of having the GM remove me from combat, (either I am in a different area or paralyzed with strength draining poisons that blinds and deafens) and set them against a group that supports each other trough teamwork...

The group in question:
Gnome Druid 12
Necropolitan Human Dread Necromancer 12
Gnome Warmage 12
Half Minotaur Fighter ~10-11
Grey-Elf Beguiler 12 (Me)

With me out of the picture, I know that mechanically they would be fine...

Amphetryon
2010-07-08, 11:28 AM
The problem is that I could solve most CR+3 problems with just me and the Fighter... Mechanically it is difficult to top my ability for support, the fighter just power attacks them into oblivion while I watch his back, which is fine...

More enemies: Solid Fog, Mass Whelm, Legion of Sentinels, Slow.
Boost: Haste, Summon monster III.
Defense: Halt, Hesitate, greater mirror image, dispel magic.

What do you guys think of having the GM remove me from combat, (either I am in a different area or paralyzed with strength draining poisons that blinds and deafens) and set them against a group that supports each other trough teamwork...

The group in question:
Gnome Druid 12
Necropolitan Human Dread Necromancer 12
Gnome Warmage 12
Half Minotaur Fighter ~10-11
Grey-Elf Beguiler 12 (Me)

With me out of the picture, I know that mechanically they would be fine...
If the Warmage is castign AoE and the Fighter has Cleave to take advantage of lower HP mooks, you've got teamwork. If the Druid is using Summon Nature's Ally and the Dread Necro is casting Summon Undead or Raise Dead on the enemies slaughtered to turn the tide, you've also got teamwork.

The fact that the teamwork isn't buffing and Aid Another actions doesn't mean it isn't there. I think we need more information about the party's general tactics to understand what improvements the DM wants made.

quiet1mi
2010-07-09, 07:38 PM
If the Warmage is castign AoE and the Fighter has Cleave to take advantage of lower HP mooks, you've got teamwork. If the Druid is using Summon Nature's Ally and the Dread Necro is casting Summon Undead or Raise Dead on the enemies slaughtered to turn the tide, you've also got teamwork.


I will point that out the GM (Warmage+Fighter), Unfortunately the Dread Necromancer only knows one word (Enervation), while the Druid cast Heal spells and Flamestrike like spells... She is getting better at Wildshaping (Rawr Im a Tiger)

Siosilvar
2010-07-09, 07:42 PM
Unfortunately the Dread Necromancer only knows one word (Enervation),Debuff, making it easier for everyone else.


while the Druid cast Heal spells and Flamestrike like spells... She is getting better at Wildshaping (Rawr Im a Tiger)Healing things is teamwork. Softening them up for the Fighter to tear through is very helpful.

Amphetryon
2010-07-09, 07:43 PM
I will point that out the GM (Warmage+Fighter), Unfortunately the Dread Necromancer only knows one word (Enervation), while the Druid cast Heal spells and Flamestrike like spells... She is getting better at Wildshaping (Rawr Im a Tiger)

Enervation + Flamestrike = Happy Cleave-based Fighter. If he's NOT built to take advantage of those tactics, it's more of a problem.

Sc00by
2010-07-10, 06:58 PM
It's not hard enough. If they don't HAVE to work as a team they won't...

Mind you, if it's still fun, who cares?

Though I've just reread and why is the GM running 2 DMNPCs? Have them have a nasty accident, without the DM to bail them out (both literally and figuratively) team work may occur organically?

Edit: actually without those 2 (Warmage and Fighter) your Druid and Dread Necro need to work together to tank/create tanks (Wildshape/summon natures ally/undead army) to keep stuff of you while you ruin it's day!
If everyoen doesn't have tomb tainted soul they shoudl all take it at the next opportunity and that's FREE HEALING! :smallbiggrin:

El Dorado
2010-07-10, 07:10 PM
to the OP: your GM said that you "act like a collection of individuals that get in each other's way".

What are your party members doing that is counter-productive to each others' actions?

Hague
2010-07-10, 07:13 PM
Heroes of Battle, DMG II and PHB II have Teamwork Benefits. With the right class combinations, they can be awesome. For instance, the Spellcaster Guardian Teamwork Benefit allows an adjacent team member to take a hit for a spell caster if they provoke an AoO while casting a spell. Other ones are just as nice.

There's also Companion Spirits, which are basically special pools of extra effects that everyone shares based on the level of all the members in the party. For instance, there's the Transference Spirit, which allows you to grant immediate Saving Throw bonuses, transfer hp, cast touch spells through allies to target other allies and so on.