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Boci
2010-07-08, 08:36 AM
So I want a complete series of the advanced learning casters to replace the sorcerer and the wizard, all of whom should be tier 3. So, let’s see what we already have:
Necromancery – Dread necromancer, check.
Illusions and enchantment –Beguiler, check
Evocations – Well, we have the warmage, but it’s not tier 3. However, there are fixes one of which I am sure will be tier 3.

Okay, so then we require:
Conjuration – Summoner: I believe there is one on wiki, and if that proves unbalanced one could always use the summoner from path finder as a guideline.
Abjuration + divination – Oracle: It might play a bit weirdly with just those two schools of magic, but it will certainly be valuable to an adventuring party.
Transmutation – Grafter – Transmutation is a pretty wide school, so this should work as well.

So, three questions:
1. Do you think I divided the schools well?
2. Do you think these three classes will allow the magic system of D&D to remain relatively similar despite the absence of wizards and sorcerers?
3. Are any of these already made, or do I have to do the work myself?

PId6
2010-07-08, 08:57 AM
1. Add a bit of Conjuration to the Evoker as well, especially some of the battlefield control stuff and Orbs.
2. Depends on what happens to divine casters, but I would say close enough.
3. There are a few. There are a bunch of warmage rebuilds, including one by yours truly (sig). For the others, there are probably a few variations, but off the top I know of Kobold-Bard's Savant/Summoner/Rearranger found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154399) which are of the exact same school split you chose.

Boci
2010-07-08, 01:23 PM
1. Add a bit of Conjuration to the Evoker as well, especially some of the battlefield control stuff and Orbs.

The orbs are a good idea. As for battlefirld control, I think there were some spells of the evocation school noted in treantmonk's guide to being a good that were decent/good at battlefield control.


2. Depends on what happens to divine casters, but I would say close enough.

Divine casters are getting redesigned as well, but one thing at a time.


3. There are a few. There are a bunch of warmage rebuilds, including one by yours truly (sig). For the others, there are probably a few variations, but off the top I know of Kobold-Bard's Savant/Summoner/Rearranger found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154399) which are of the exact same school split you chose.

Okay thanks, I'll have a look at those.

subject42
2010-07-08, 01:25 PM
What is the source for the grafter class?

Boci
2010-07-08, 01:47 PM
What is the source for the grafter class?

I don't know. If it does not exist yet, I will make one.

arguskos
2010-07-08, 02:08 PM
Time to pimp like there is no damn tomorrow! :smallamused:

Transmutation: My Rearranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99314). Playtested, enjoyable, fairly reasonably balanced.

Divination/Abjuration and Conjuration: My Savant and Summoner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95336). The Savant needs an overhaul, but is a good support caster. The Summoner is very good if you're half-awake (if Sstoopidtallkid was still around, he could attest to it).

Why reinvent the wheel, when others have done it for you? Note: these are not the only classes like this, nor the best, just the ones I made and personally find enjoyable.

The Glyphstone
2010-07-08, 02:15 PM
If we're pimping homebrew, I wrote up the Witch Doctor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60146&highlight=witch+doctor)a long time back, a Transmutation Advanced Learner. It never got much playtesting, though it was apparently interesting enough for someone to Pathfinderize it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112902&highlight=Witch+Doctor), making some changes I like quite a bit.

Boci
2010-07-08, 08:32 PM
Thanks for those links, I'll look into them.

jiriku
2010-07-09, 12:12 AM
Check my sig (below the monk). Divides them by classical elements, rather than schools of magic, but it's the same principle: casters with more limited power that play well with other classes instead of stealing the show.