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DragonsAion
2010-07-08, 04:22 PM
I was looking over the fiendish codex 2 and came across the Hellbreaker PRC.

While it looks good I was wondering what your thoughts on it were?

Tinydwarfman
2010-07-08, 04:32 PM
I love it, but I find it's abilities don't really synergise with any base classes. I was thinking of homebrewing it into a base class.

DragonsAion
2010-07-08, 04:40 PM
Really? I thought it went well with a rogue or scout.

Pechvarry
2010-07-08, 04:46 PM
It wouldn't be terrible to give it some progression-stacking with Spell-thief, considering it already has a lot of the same sort of stuff.

But as-is, I still love the class.

DragonsAion
2010-07-08, 08:28 PM
The build I'm thinking of going with this is Rogue 3/ Binder 7/ hellbreaker 10

for those wondering the Hellbreaker is a prestige class form the fiendish codex 2 on page 86.

Thurbane
2010-07-08, 09:31 PM
I'd recommend a level of Planar Ranger (UA) if possible - 6 skills points (including Knowledge [The Planes]), and nab favored enemy Evil Ousiders (which can be bolstered with the right feats). Not to mention full MWP, access to Ranger Spells via wands etc.

I'd also recommend the Knowledge Devotion feat (CC).

DragonsAion
2010-07-08, 10:27 PM
I like the fact that I can adapt myself as needed using the binder class. some of the bindings can be put to really good use with this build. As far the MWP goes, the bindings gives me the proficiency I need for each binding.

Thurbane
2010-07-09, 12:10 AM
Oops, I think I was mixing up the Hellbreaker and Hellreaver PrCs - my advice was for a Hellreaver...though some of it translates. :smallredface:

DragonsAion
2010-07-09, 01:01 AM
Wonder what feats I would go with this build. The ones needed for the Prc are decent ones. I'm also thinking of going with improved binding and skilled pact making. That's already 5 feats and I’ll be going human so I think I have 3 feat slots left.

true_shinken
2010-07-09, 07:18 AM
I'd go Rogue 4/Binder 6 instead of Rogue 3/Binder 7.

Wings of Peace
2010-07-09, 07:20 AM
Hint: HiPS + Iaijutsu = Amazing

Though, Hide Rules =/= Amazing

mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 07:20 AM
He's got a point. As long as your taking Improved Binding..

Tinydwarfman
2010-07-09, 07:28 AM
Oops, I think I was mixing up the Hellbreaker and Hellreaver PrCs - my advice was for a Hellreaver...though some of it translates. :smallredface:

Same here, I was like "wtf?" when he said it went well with a rogue or scout

Person_Man
2010-07-09, 08:20 AM
Hellbreaker requires two crappy feats (Combat Expertise and Improved Feint) and one that usually isn't useful until high levels (Undo Resistance). The mechanics of most of its abilities suck - Telepathic Static and Foil Summoning abilities can be overcome with a Spellcraft check (which is generally quite easy for your enemy to make), Steal Spell Like ability is limited to one use of abilities with a spell level = to 1/2 your class level (so max level 5 at ECL 15), your Stowaway ability has a poor chance of success (d20 + Hellbreaker level vs 10 + caster level, which will usually be around your ECL), on so on.

Oh, and most of your class abilities are useless against most enemies.

In effect, it's garbage.

herrhauptmann
2010-07-09, 10:25 AM
Oops, I think I was mixing up the Hellbreaker and Hellreaver PrCs - my advice was for a Hellreaver...though some of it translates. :smallredface:

So you want to be a hellreaver, or a hellbreaker?
Hellbreaker needs a lot of skills, 3 feats, and sneak attack or similar.
Hellreaver requires power attack, slay an evil outsider, and some ranks in knowledge. Pretty much seems to lead into a standard Ubercharger, just flavored to be anti-fiend, with some pseudo-paladin abilities.

All the advice given has been for hellbreaker I think.

Pechvarry
2010-07-09, 12:55 PM
your Stowaway ability has a poor chance of success (d20 + Hellbreaker level vs 10 + caster level, which will usually be around your ECL)

It states you're making a level check vs DC 10+CL. I can't find an actual definition of "Level check" in the SRD, but I'm under the assumption it's simply your HD. So... at least you've got that going for you (If your DM agrees with me).

Fax Celestis
2010-07-09, 02:19 PM
It states you're making a level check vs DC 10+CL. I can't find an actual definition of "Level check" in the SRD, but I'm under the assumption it's simply your HD. So... at least you've got that going for you (If your DM agrees with me).


Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear).

Since Intimidate uses an explicit modified level check (modified in this case being Wisdom bonus and modifiers vs fear), a level check therefore uses your ECL, not your class level.

Person_Man
2010-07-09, 03:04 PM
Since Intimidate uses an explicit modified level check (modified in this case being Wisdom bonus and modifiers vs fear), a level check therefore uses your ECL, not your class level.

Fair enough. So assuming that the caster you are trying to stow away with has a caster level equal to your ECL (a fair assumption, unless he's a mook or using a cheap magic item), you have a 55ish% chance of success. If it's a BBEF, it will be less. That's not so great in my book.

DragonsAion
2010-07-09, 05:11 PM
That's also for an unwilling target. There is no check for a willing target and by using stowaway you don't count as part of the overall total they can teleport with.

When you get to a high enough level a lot of things have Spell-like abilities and nearly everything has at lest one supernatural ability. If they a get SLA stolen by steal spell-like ability they can't use it until you cast the spell or until 10 rounds pass.

Don’t know about you but that sounds pretty useful.

DragonsAion
2010-07-10, 12:03 AM
Think I'm going to throw out the binder class and go full Spellthief 10/ hellbreaker 10.

I'm also going to take the following feats.

Shadow striker
Tumbling feint
Dark stalker
Combat expertise
Undo resistance
Improved feint
acrobatic strike