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Soranar
2010-07-09, 03:23 AM
can insightful strike affect the glaive's damage ?

Roc Ness
2010-07-09, 03:34 AM
I have no idea, but it's on the same vein as something I've always wondered (can you finesse Eldritch Glaive).

Snake-Aes
2010-07-09, 04:30 AM
I do believe the glaive is still your Eldritch Blast, so whatever applies to the blast should apply to the glaive.

true_shinken
2010-07-09, 07:00 AM
Eldritch Glaive is a weapon-like touch-range spell-effect. As such, it is finessable.

Person_Man
2010-07-09, 08:03 AM
I would say no. Eldritch Glaive is essentially like wielding a glaive. Glaives cannot be used with Weapon Finesse. Being used with Weapon Finesse is a pre-req for Insightful Strike. But I'm AFB right now, so I'd double check that before running with it.

Also, Warlock + Swashbuckler is an utterly horrible bad idea. You'd have serious MAD (Dex + Int + Cha + Con), and the bonus damage gained from Insightful Strike is about the same as the bonus damage LOST from your nerfed Eldritch Blast progression. You'd also be slowing your Invocation progression, which is the true source of powers for Warlocks, which are already a pretty weak class.

true_shinken
2010-07-09, 08:21 AM
I would say no. Eldritch Glaive is essentially like wielding a glaive. Glaives cannot be used with Weapon Finesse. Being used with Weapon Finesse is a pre-req for Insightful Strike. But I'm AFB right now, so I'd double check that before running with it.
Not at all. Eldritch Glaive is only similar to a glaive in that it has reach and glaive feats like Weapon Focus (glaive) can be applied to it. It specifically works like a touch attack, Shorft Haft does not work with it, can't be used to Power Attack, etc, etc. Eldritch Glaive is not like Flame Blade and the like that create a weapon and work around it; it's just an effect that resembles a weapon in a few ways.


Also, Warlock + Swashbuckler is an utterly horrible bad idea. You'd have serious MAD (Dex + Int + Cha + Con), and the bonus damage gained from Insightful Strike is about the same as the bonus damage LOST from your nerfed Eldritch Blast progression. You'd also be slowing your Invocation progression, which is the true source of powers for Warlocks, which are already a pretty weak class.

Glaivelocks don't need Cha, really. They focus on passive invocations and/or those that don't have saving throws. The higher base attack bonus from swashbuckler gets you more iteratives (the real deal for a glaivelock), adds much needed movement skills and better hit die (that even alleviates your need for Con).
Insightful Strike is really not better than the simple progression of EB, but with all the goodies, 3 level dip in Swashbuckler does not look that bad, really.
Glaivelocks are A LOT different from normal Warlocks. Most advice for standard warlocks don't apply to glaivelocks and vice-versa.

nedz
2010-07-09, 01:55 PM
I do believe the glaive is still your Eldritch Blast, so whatever applies to the blast should apply to the glaive.
So like Point Blank Shot ? :smallbiggrin:

CArc p73 claims that you can use Weapon Finesse on touch spells since you can treat them like light weapons.

So that sounds good for insightful strike also.
:smallcool:

Frosty
2010-07-09, 02:10 PM
This is a good point. One would swing an Eldritch glaive different than anormal glaive. You don't NEED a lot of power since all you need is a touch. Logically, you might be able to finesse it given how differently it is being wielded.

Soranar
2010-07-09, 03:41 PM
So , from what I've read so far, it's not unlikely a DM would approve it

This is the build I had in mind (doesn't really pickup till level 12 but that's where the game would start anyway, definitely not worth it otherwise)

Race: Gray elf
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Template: necropolitan (prevents MAD by removing Con but also prevents hellfire warlock)

STATS (32 pts buy)

STR 6
DEX 20
CON -
INT 20
WIS 8
CHA 8

BAB=16/11/6/1
Warlock Caster level 16 (abjurant champion ability)
Eldritch blast 7d6 + 4d6 from enlightened soul (Int bonus + 5 from VoP)

so basically you teleport with abrupt jaunt and smash everything with your eldritch glaive and you have the usual invocation tricks from playing a warlock (most of VoP replaces warlock abilities you lost with the other classes)

1 Swashbuckler Sacred Vow, weapon finesse
2 Warlock
3 Wizard Vow of Poverty, nymph's kiss
4 Swashbuckler Consecrate SLA
5 Warlock
6 Swashbuckler Combat casting Purify SLA
7 Warlock
8 Abjurant Champion (progress Warlock) Servant of the stars
9 Abjurant Champion maximise SLA
10 Abjurant Champion Vow of purity
11 Abjurant Champion
12 Abjurant Champion Quicken SLA Vow of abstinence
13 Enlightened Soul
14 Enlightened Soul vow of chastity
15 Enlightened Soul Focus eldritch blast
16 Enlightened Soul Vow of obedience
17 Enlightened Soul
18 Enlightened Soul Improved crit range: eldritch blast Purify spell
19 Enlightened Soul
20 Enlightened Soul Spell focus good

The joke is abjurant champion makes you able to use enligthened soul effectively (as you lose little BAB which is what determines your caster level)

You don't really need Charisma since you gain your invocations anyway (just pick those without saves, there are many)

But, like mentioned before, this won't really be playable until level 12

Keld Denar
2010-07-09, 04:12 PM
Do note that CL is almost completely worthless for a warlocky character. What you need are things that increase your spellcaster level (+1 existing spellcasting class). That more or less means that Abjurant Champion's Martial Caster capstone is rather worthless. AbjChamp is still a VERY good class for this, as its full BAB and full caster with a d10 HD, but I wanted to point out that the capstone doesn't work the way you think it does.

true_shinken
2010-07-09, 04:27 PM
Do note that CL is almost completely worthless for a warlocky character. What you need are things that increase your spellcaster level (+1 existing spellcasting class). That more or less means that Abjurant Champion's Martial Caster capstone is rather worthless. AbjChamp is still a VERY good class for this, as its full BAB and full caster with a d10 HD, but I wanted to point out that the capstone doesn't work the way you think it does.

Except you can't use any of the other class abilities of AbjChamp with a Warlock. Cyran Avenger is a lot better here.
For glaivelocks, I even like those full bab\half-casting classes.

nedz
2010-07-09, 05:15 PM
As I understand it you are picking up 1 level of Wizard for arcane spellcasting to qualify for the PrCs ?
Why not go for Beguiler or Duskblade instead ?
Its possibly a minor consideration but these do seem to offer you slightly more.

The Cat Goddess
2010-07-10, 02:51 AM
As I understand it you are picking up 1 level of Wizard for arcane spellcasting to qualify for the PrCs ?
Why not go for Beguiler or Duskblade instead ?
Its possibly a minor consideration but these do seem to offer you slightly more.

The Wizard level is also for the Abrupt Jaunt ability (from PH2).