PDA

View Full Version : Complete Divine help



mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 04:21 AM
In a game coming up, I have to use a class from divine, I can multiclass but only if it's from that book. And my race is human.. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what class was best and all. I have never played a divine character, so help with feats, spells, and anything else is appreciated. I don't care what my role is, frontlines, caster, healer, buffer/debuffer.. I'm good with any of it.

acid_ninja
2010-07-09, 04:30 AM
I'm grappling with the same thing. I'm playing a favored soul but beyond spellcasting there's not much they can do. I do recommend spontaneous healer (BoED) so you only have to use a spells known slot on cure minor wounds. Also, versatile spellcaster will let you get the most out of your main strength - lots of spells per day. For a PrC I'm looking at contemplative - a few nifty abilities but the real gem is full casting progression. Don't worry about the wizard BAB, by that level you've got divine power if you want to go melee.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2010-07-09, 04:54 AM
See if you can play an Archivist (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) instead, but only use prestige classes from Complete Divine. You'll probably want to get at least eleven levels of Archivist, and maybe consider dipping Sacred Exorcist to get turn undead. Archivist is good enough to stay single-classed, but after you get Dread Secret you should look into your other options. Divine Oracle would be a particularly good choice, and you can use the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get the skill focus prerequisite without spending a feat on it.

Edit: If you can't play an Archivist, see if you can play a Cleric or Druid since they're much better choices than any of the Complete Divine base classes.

mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 05:12 AM
The DM is trying to run a "standard game". A fighter, a skillmonkey, a divine, and an arcane. Each of us four players had a book assigned to them, and we have to pick a class from it.. The books being, CWar, CAdv, CDiv, and CArc. I guess next month he has plans to make it bigger with our entire group playing, so maybe I'll get a better book then. But for now, I'm stuck with divine.. I think I like the shunenja. The main problem is, I have never used divine magic. And I have only played a spellcaster a handful of times.. I normally play swordsages or binders.. in core i play rogues.. So this is giving me issues..

Sliver
2010-07-09, 05:33 AM
Wow, thats.. Limiting...

The best as a party you can go for is a Wu Jen, Spellthief, Hexblade and you can go w/e, the complete divine classes are pretty solid. Favored Soul is a spontaneous cleric, spirit shaman is a spontaneous druid. As a sorcerer to a wizard, they all lose some nice class features. Spirit shaman is more forgiving with spell selection though, being able to change every day. Shugenja is like a weird hybdrid. Needs scrolls but casts spontaneously...

Personally, I'd go with Spirit Shaman, but that's because I played FS a bit and would want to try it out more. FS can be a nice gish, at least in my little NWN experience with it.

mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 05:55 AM
I have no idea what CArc is planning. Last I heard, CAdv was going scout and CWar wanted to try hex or swashbuckler. So not to sure yet.. And what did you mean that they need scrolls, I have only looked at each class once so far, but I didn't remember seeing that.

EDIT: Yea, it is limiting a lot.. But I generally like being forced to try new things.. Just unsure of magic really.. I've played a sorcerer, many binders, a shadowcaster, and a truenamer.. I've never used psion stuff.. I have used MoI once or twice.. But thats the total of my magic experience, so this could be good for me in the end..

Wings of Peace
2010-07-09, 06:14 AM
How do these book limitations play into your feat selection? Can you take Persistent Spell even though its from Comp. Arc.?

mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 06:16 AM
I believe feats are free game from any Complete and from core..

Wings of Peace
2010-07-09, 06:21 AM
When you say you have to play a class from Comp. Div., can that class be a prestige class? As in, could you be a Cleric and prestige into something to count as your Comp. Div. class?

Edit: It could be hard if your DM disapproves of the special requirements, but Shugenja 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/Contemplative (War/Competition) should be able to net you Turn Undead and Divine Power. From here with lots of smatterings of the Extra Turning feat you could conceivably Persist a few key buffs and Divine Power and go frontliner. That's a level 9 setup though, might be a bit far ahead.

mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 06:37 AM
Your build may work.. I would have to study more in depth.. I do have to ask, does anyone know if the blighter is any good. Just saw it for the first time, looks fun.

Tshern
2010-07-09, 06:41 AM
Your build may work.. I would have to study more in depth.. I do have to ask, does anyone know if the blighter is any good. Just saw it for the first time, looks fun.
Dear god no! You always need to have a forest nearby and your job is to piss off Druids. Not a good idea. At all.

mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 06:45 AM
Ok.. Just looked fun. Looking through CDiv I see a lot of old classes. Like the blighter and temple raider. I think blighter was in tome and blood and temple raider was in song and silence.. Good times. Anyways, so I think I'm going to use the shugenja, so any ideas on feats or spells. Starting at level 2.

Devils_Advocate
2010-07-09, 07:06 AM
The Favored Soul could help you to familiarize yourself with the Cleric spell list, but you'd have to be careful about selecting spells, since you can only swap a few out as you level up. The Spirit Shaman likewise shares the Druid list, but doesn't have permanent spells known, so that could be a plus. Its spell retrieval mechanic looks pretty unique, actually, as do its class features in general, so that seems like it might be fun to try.

The Shujenja has its own spell list, which arguably makes it the most unique. A shujenja appears to get as many spells known as a Favored Soul but to be more limited in which spells can be selected, which seems like a downside. Evidently you go with Water (and the Order of the Gentle Rain) if you want to fill the traditional healer role. Hmmm, that's how Avatar: the Last Airbender did it, innit? Makes sense, I guess, with the human body being mostly water.


what did you mean that they need scrolls, I have only looked at each class once so far, but I didn't remember seeing that.
It's mentioned briefly in the "Spells" section of the class description. It's easy to miss if you skim it.


When you say you have to play a class from Comp. Div., can that class be a prestige class?
This question wasn't directed at me, but yes...


As in, could you be a Cleric and prestige into something to count as your Comp. Div. class?
and no.


I can multiclass but only if it's from that book.
So only classes from Complete Divine.

mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 07:16 AM
The spirit shaman's choose new spells per day is really enticing.. Since that is one of my main worries as a rookie caster. The shugenja, seem to get a lot more uses per day and more spells though. So that seems balanced to me. And I think I like the shugenja spell list more. Thinking of being air, since earth seems to lack the most good spells. But then I still need help on spells and feats.

EIDT: One minor side note.. My DM uses very unbalanced house rules when it comes to PrC's. So i can only get one.. And I need to be level 5 before I can take one..
And the shugenja known spell list says I have to have 5 level 0 air spells, but only 4 are in the book. Any answers?

true_shinken
2010-07-09, 07:49 AM
Spirit Shaman is very good. It's a not-so-broken Druid. I'd go with it.

Optimystik
2010-07-09, 07:54 AM
The Shugenja Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4367.0) will help you figure out the whole order and favored element business.

I personally love Shugenja, they aren't extremely strong but they do get 9th-level spells, and more spells known than a sorcerer thanks to the order spells.

Air tends to focus on illusion, buffs, and transport; Fire almost exclusively on blasting; Water almost exclusively on healing; and Earth is split between offense and defense. Water is a turkey, but the other three are fine.

You can easily be the party face as well - you are Cha-focused with Diplomacy in-class.

Finally, show your DM the passage in Spell Compendium that lets you broaden their spell list.


Shugenja (Complete Divine): Add spells with strong elemental or weather themes. The druid spell list is a good place to look.

mrcarter11
2010-07-09, 07:58 AM
Well both options are very tempting.. I think my problem with the shaman is how few spells it knows per day. Although the flavor seems odd to me as well. What CDiv PrC's mesh well with the shaman or the shugenja

gbprime
2010-07-09, 10:29 AM
Divine Oracle or Contemplative (or both) lend themselves well to Shugenja. Shugenja gains no class abilities by leveling up and has a limited spell list, and both of those prestige classes address both these concerns.

Spirit Shaman gets candy as it levels up, so staying single classed is actually a decent option. This class benefits greatly from scribe scroll and craft staff (regular staffs or rune staffs), so you might consider those feats as options.

The Spirit Shaman has the additional concern of using Wisdom for spell selection but Charisma for save DC's, requiring your character to devote TWO good stats to spell casting instead of just one. You can alleviate this with the Dynamic Preist feat from Dragonlance - Legend of the Twins, but this requires a feat and requires your DM to accept material from that book.

okpokalypse
2010-07-09, 01:41 PM
Target L12:

Favored Soul 10 / Sacred Exorist 2

You make sure you get yourself into position to have Divine Meta-Magic Persist Spell and go Charisma Nuts! Sacred Exorcist is a PrC you qualify for and it gives you (not add to existing) turns. Now you can power all those great buffs you can hand pick as part of your spell list.

You're the ultimate group buffer. At L12 you should have all the feats you need (+Leadership or something else fun) to be persisting

(L5) Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (+3 Hit/Dam; +Extra Attack)
(L6) Vigorous Circle (Fast Healing 3 All Day)
(L4) Blessing of the Righteous (+1d6 Holy Damage; Good Aligned Wpns)

Those three persists alone will make you a melee PCs best friend, be it archer or sword-swinger. You've just basically made em all like 5 levels better all day.

You should be using Extend Spell and Divine Spell Power when casting Mass Conviction (+4 @ L12 to All Saves; Morale Bonus) to get a duration of about 6 Hours a casting. There's a ton of other group-buffing you can do that the party will love as well from Energy Resists, Hero's Feasts, Mass Aid (great combat starter) and Mass Resurgence.

At the high end you'll wind up persisting some beefy spells (and should have the Cha + Nightsticks to pull off at least 4 Persists)

- Keep Righteous Wrath in Place. It Never stops being wonderful.
- Vigorous Circle can stay because you never worry about non-combat healing.
- (L8) Holy Aura (+4 AC; +4 Saves; SR 25; Mental Protection; Blinds Attackers)
- (L9) Greater Visage of the Deity (This one's for you. It's awesome)

If you've got a lot of turns left over, you can have fun. As I said, by L12 you're done with the Persist Chain. You might also have Leadership or an Ancestral Relic. L12, L15 and L18 are for fun combos.

One I did was to take Divine Preparation (Same as Arcane Preparation - House Rules by the DM), Sudden Maximize and Elven Spell Lore as feats. I had Elven Spell Lore change Storm Rage's Damage Type to Holy since it could be prepared, and when I'd Persist it, I'd also Sudden Maximize it. So I could, all day, shoot 60 HP Damage Holy Rays out of my eyes at 100' Range (while flying) with no Save allowed. Then I'd swoop in if I was needed to heal or something...

As an offensive measure (L7) Radiant Assault is wonderful because it deals 15d6 Light damage (nothing resists it) and has a save or be Dazed for 1d6 Rounds.

Hague
2010-07-09, 01:50 PM
Wow, thats.. Limiting...
Shugenja is like a weird hybdrid. Needs scrolls but casts spontaneously...


What? They don't need scrolls, they learn their spells as they gain levels. Their little spellbook is a divine focus.

Shugenja will make you mad though, since they have basically 0 class features, Element Focus is a joke (it doesn't stack with Spell focus?! Seriously?) and their other class feature is way too slow and short range to be of any use. Though, they get a nice spell list that includes lots of spells from other classes' lists. I'd have to say though, that some of the order spells are stupid. For instance, half the spells on the Impenetrable Crucible (earth order) list are already earth spells so you don't really get much from choosing it. Their saves are terrible (Favored Soul's are awesome by comparison) they have awful armor and weapon proficiency, terrible BAB, etc. But hey, you can cast fireball! Ask your DM to pepper you with some Bonus Feats or Spell Secrets something because this class is not good at all.

okpokalypse
2010-07-09, 01:55 PM
Alternatively, with the Favored Soul / Sacred Exorcist build you can go frontliner as well. Keep some group buffs, but budget persists for Divine Power and Righteous Might.

Also, down the road, at L15 you Extra Spell for Bite of the Werebear (and Persist that bad-boy) and at L18 you Extra Spell for Giant Size :smalleek:.

How's that Colossal attack sequence of 6d6 (Claw) / 6d6 (Claw) / 8d8 (Bite) sound with a combined Enhancement & Size bonus of +48 to Strength? :) Maybe you'd perfer a weapon sequence. Let's say you're now wielding a Colossal Glaive (one of my favorite weapons)... That would be doing 6d8 per attack with a base attack sequence of (assuming 14 Str to Start) +49/+49/+44/+39/+34 before any weapon or other enhancements. That's just the power-up from the two "Extra Spells" and your Righteous Wrath Persist.

Oh yeah, you also get Power Attack and Blind Fight with Bite of the Werebear for Free as well...

Hague
2010-07-09, 02:02 PM
Yeah, you could do that, but I don't believe he has access to Persist spell (easily the most broken Metamagic in the entire game)

Optimystik
2010-07-09, 02:06 PM
Yeah, you could do that, but I don't believe he has access to Persist spell (easily the most broken Metamagic in the entire game)

Well, it's broken in the sense that it's just about impossible to use without reducers... but once you use them, it becomes crazy good.

But persisted spells do have a very key weakness - they can be dispelled.

gbprime
2010-07-09, 02:08 PM
Yeah, you could do that, but I don't believe he has access to Persist spell (easily the most broken Metamagic in the entire game)

Nope. He mentioned Core + Completes for feats. No persistent spell builds.

okpokalypse
2010-07-09, 02:10 PM
Well, it's broken in the sense that it's just about impossible to use without reducers... but once you use them, it becomes crazy good.

But persisted spells do have a very key weakness - they can be dispelled.

Depends on the build. Unless the DM is hellbent on making an Abjurer / Master Specialist (Abjurer) / Abjurant Champion or something to the like to be a dispelling guru, it's nearly impossible to dispel Persists that are done right, save using a Disjunction.

Bead of Karma, Ioun Stone & DSP increase CL by +9 combined and drop the chance to 5% for an equal level caster w/o CL Buffs. And I could get that +9 up to +15 rather easily making it such that for a caster to have a chance to dispel me they'd need to be 5 Levels Higher w/o CL buffs.

okpokalypse
2010-07-09, 02:12 PM
Nope. He mentioned Core + Completes for feats. No persistent spell builds.

Persistant Spell is from the Completes. Complete Arcane. Divine Meta-Magic is from Complete Divine. It's actually completely within the bounds of the exercise...

gbprime
2010-07-09, 02:15 PM
Persistant Spell is from the Completes. Complete Arcane. Divine Meta-Magic is from Complete Divine. It's actually completely within the bounds of the exercise...

Oh, so it is. I assumed it wasn't since they reprinted it in Player's Guide to Faerun, which came out after Complete Arcane.

I have thus learned something new today. I can go home now. :smallamused:

okpokalypse
2010-07-09, 02:29 PM
Oh, so it is. I assumed it wasn't since they reprinted it in Player's Guide to Faerun, which came out after Complete Arcane.

I have thus learned something new today. I can go home now. :smallamused:

Nice :smallsmile:

As long as Libris Mortis and / or Book of Exalted Deeds are out of bounds, things can kinda stay contained. Chances are, even a Cha junkie will only get enough for 2 or 3 Persists via DMM, which is managable. The combination however of Ancestral Relic and / or Night Sticks makes things really bad.

Ancestral Relic abuse is the worst overall. At the high end you can just have an Ancestral Relic (Ring) have the following by L12 (44,000 gpv) in it based on item creation rules:

+2 Charisma (Enchantment) - 4,000 gpv
+2 Charisma (Sacred) - 8,000 gpv
+2 Charisma (Insight) - 8,000 gpv
+2 Charisma (Luck) - 8,000 gpv
+8 Turns / Day (ala NightStick) - 15,000 gpv

Hmm, +8 Charisma at L12 plus 8 Bonus Turns. And it scales fast and ugly from there... By L15 you're looking at +12 Cha and +12 Turns. By L18 you've got +18 Cha and +40 Turns. You see where this is going... :)

Then, you add +CL Into it as well...

Hague
2010-07-09, 02:41 PM
Yeah, Favored Soul, Sacred Exorcist seems to be the combination. Getting the turning for Divine feats is the key here.

I'm interested in Favored Soul 10 / Divine Crusader 10. It has nice symmetry and if you pick your resistances right, you can get resistance 10 against nearly everything. Plus, you get domain access, pick up an extra domain and you've got access to 3 times the number of domain spells that a cleric would. Also, you'd get access to your bonus spells twice both based on Charisma (if that's allowed, not sure) Though, overall your caster level would suffer, so it's probably better to concentrate on just single track.