[3.5] Summon Monster Thought

[Deth Muncher]

I just thunked of something. Generally, most things you can get from the Summon Monster line are advancable - as in, they can get more hitdice than the basic MM entry. Would it be reasonable to have a feat/item/whathaveyou for Summoners that would let them advance the HD on their summons? Or, perhaps, a % roll every time they summon monsters for it to be of a higher HD than the one presented?

[Ernir]

The way I'd do it is to just replace some of the higher level SM monsters with HD-advanced versions of lower level monsters. Might make sense for some "themed" summoners.
Advancing the HD of monsters without increasing the spell level is bound to break something somewhere.

On the percentage-based chance of summoned monsters appearing with extra HD... I think you have stumbled upon the only way possible to turn Summoning into a bigger bookkeeping nightmare than it already is. :smalltongue:

[Coplantor]

The way I'd do it is to just replace some of the higher level SM monsters with HD-advanced versions of lower level monsters. Might make sense for some "themed" summoners.
Advancing the HD of monsters without increasing the spell level is bound to break something somewhere.

Or make it a bit more intresting for normal wizards to use summon spells, as far as I know, unless you get into some nice PrC/feat combos, summoning is just meh compared to the myriad of options a wizard posses

[Deth Muncher]

Yeah, it's more of just a "Hey, that's cool" kind of thing. My thought is you'd roll for every HD to add onto it (up to the limitation of HD on the monster's entry). Call it a 10% chance, and if you fail, you stop there. It obviously wouldn't work for stuff like the Reserve Summoning feat, since I think that specifically tells you you get like a 1HD elemental or something.

[Coplantor]

I would allow it, except for the fact that advancing a creature mid-battle mght end up taking a lot of time that could be used for playing:smalltongue:

[Yora]

In actual game play, the other players just want you to cast a spell and get to the next characters turn.
Creating monsters randomly in the middle of an encounter slows the game down terribly.

[Deth Muncher]

Well, yes, it could be annoying if it changes size category. But I mean, if it advances, doesn't it just get extra HP/+1BAB per HD?

[Coplantor]

BAB and saves depend on what you are sumoning (though I think there's nothing but outsiders and elementals, right?)

[Lin Bayaseda]

I just thunked of something. Generally, most things you can get from the Summon Monster line are advancable - as in, they can get more hitdice than the basic MM entry. Would it be reasonable to have a feat/item/whathaveyou for Summoners that would let them advance the HD on their summons? Or, perhaps, a % roll every time they summon monsters for it to be of a higher HD than the one presented?
There is already a feat named Augment Summoning, which does almost the same as you're suggesting. It doesn't advance the HD, but advances the summoned monsters' attributes, so they get bonuses to HP, attacks and damage.

[Person_Man]

In practice I think this is a very bad idea unless you wanted to homebrew an entire class around just Summoning. You can already Summon a huge array of different creatures, and the action advantage they give you is immense. Giving a player even more customization makes every non-Summoning class even weaker.

[Runestar]

It's called astral construct. :smallbiggrin:

[Teron]

Well, yes, it could be annoying if it changes size category. But I mean, if it advances, doesn't it just get extra HP/+1BAB per HD?
Saves, skills, feats, the save DC's of extraordinary and supernatural abilities and (to some extent) ability scores are also based on HD.

[Vizzerdrix]

I thought Unearthed Arcana had something on this?

[Set]

I just thunked of something. Generally, most things you can get from the Summon Monster line are advancable - as in, they can get more hitdice than the basic MM entry. Would it be reasonable to have a feat/item/whathaveyou for Summoners that would let them advance the HD on their summons? Or, perhaps, a % roll every time they summon monsters for it to be of a higher HD than the one presented?

The Green Ronin dwarves sourcebook Hammer & Helm has some special talismans that a conjuror can wear in is neck-slot that give special properties to the critters he summons, ranging from a +2 to +6 to Str, Dex or Con, to a size increase, to +2 HD, to perma-haste (that one's pretty pricey, though!).

The size increase one sounds pretty darn hot, although the +2 HD talisman could be useful.

Feats, magic items, etc. that grant different templates to the summoned monsters, such as a dragontouched only feat that allows one to add the draconic or half-dragon template to creatures summoned could be neat. A similar planetouched-only feat or item that allows one to summon half-celestial or half-fiendish template creatures instead of celestial / fiendish ones could also be fun.