Durkon's turn

[silas the monk]

Durkon is finally getting a starring role. Shame he fluffed his lines.

[Optimystik]

It seems to me the focus will stay with Roy and Belkar. Lots of gags can be gotten out of an arena scenario.

[Dr.Epic]

There are no small parts only small actors which is especially true in this case 'cause Durkon is a dwarf.

[Bongos]

Well somehow Durkon has to save the day. He is the only one that knows of Roy and Belkar's predicament.

[JonestheSpy]

Well somehow Durkon has to save the day. He is the only one that knows of Roy and Belkar's predicament.

Until Elan and Haley see Roy and Belkar fighting in the arena from the Royal Box, that is...

[King of Nowhere]

I can't help but notice that they already managed to split the party in three again...

[Skorj]

It seems to me the focus will stay with Roy and Belkar. Lots of gags can be gotten out of an arena scenario.

I think this will be Durkons moment in the spotlight. He'll be confronted with "lawful evil" and I bet we'll see some actual character development as a result. It would be a shame if he had less growth than Belkar before they both die.

[mockingbyrd7]

I can't help but notice that they already managed to split the party in three again...

Ah, but there are several differences:

a) I doubt that it'll last NEARLY as long as before.
b) Roy is alive.
c) The party mix-ups are completely different, giving an opportunity for new character interaction.

[Innis Cabal]

There are no small parts only small actors which is especially true in this case 'cause Durkon is a dwarf.

To bad Dwarves are Medium sized creatures. :smallsmile:

[Black]

I think this will be Durkons moment in the spotlight. He'll be confronted with "lawful evil" and I bet we'll see some actual character development as a result. It would be a shame if he had less growth than Belkar before they both die.

I like this idea.

[Optimystik]

I think this will be Durkons moment in the spotlight. He'll be confronted with "lawful evil" and I bet we'll see some actual character development as a result. It would be a shame if he had less growth than Belkar before they both die.

God, I hope you're right. Durkon has been a massive letdown for me.

[Ancalagon]

I can't help but notice that they already managed to split the party in three again...

They'll come together pretty soon.

Haley, Vaarsuvius and Elan on the tribune, Roy and Belkar in the arena and Durkon somewhere, maybe sneakingclanking around.

[LuPuWei]

Lots of gags can be gotten out of an arena scenario.

Mortal Kombat!!

[toastywes]

I personally think the arena scenario is very interesting.

[Ancalagon]

... yes, might even lead to an Roy-induced insurrection.

But let's keep on-topic with Durkon's Turn. I really hope that little bugger gets some character development. So far, the Durkon from #734 is the same as from #1. Given how much stuff the others (individually) have gone through, that's... bland.

[Orzel]

Why do you all want to change Durkon?
He's the boring conservative dwarf and that's how I like him.

[Ancalagon]

Why do you all want to change Durkon?
He's the boring conservative dwarf and that's how I like him.

A) Stagnation is boring.

B) This comic has stopped being purely "fun about stereotypes" long ago, these days it's about characters and plot. Back then, the charactes were just cardboards rule-absurdities and one-shot jokes could get projected at. Even if you are a reader who "mostly comes for the giggles" (nothing wrong with that!) you have to accept that change.
Therefore, apart from A), Durkon simply does not fit the comic in its current form anymore. Without any character development or "depth" in any way he looks like an "A" among numbers, like a sausage among cookies, like a brick among jewels. Not that it is bad being a brick but it simply does not fit the style, the genre, and everything the comic has become since maybe #50 or even #150.
Even Belkar, who never was more than "A mean to throw in otherwise funny but inappropiate comments" (Rich said so in one of the books' comments), got "something".

[Orzel]

But everyone can't be reckless, crazy, or silly!

[Ancalagon]

But everyone can't be reckless, crazy, or silly!

Who says character development is reckeless, crazy, or silly?

Belkar is not more reckless, crazy, or silly as before.
Roy surely has grown at lot.
Vaarsuvius was quite evil but I think she has grown a lot as well, yet Vaarsuvius is probably the most problematic case.
Elan and Haley have grown, in part of Elan it even involved less sillyness than he usually shows! Haley has learned a lot without screwing up anything.

Who said "character growth" and "character with depth" have to be reckless, crazy, or silly? Point is: Durkon is so horribly cardbord and bland (do not get me wrong, I like this character!) that he really does not fit the current narrative anymore. He's like a 1st edition monster that got imported without pondering anything into the current campaign just because the DM thought it was a good idea.

[Orzel]

I just don't wanna see Durkon getting character development and changing too much by giving up on on of his beliefs.

I like my Durkons tree-hating, beer-drinking, law-abiding (even when non convenient), Thor-loving, conservative dwarves.

What ye gonnae do?
Make him learn to tolerate trees just 'cause an ally happens to be half-tree?
Appreciate the quality of human beer?

Sure there most likely a way to give him development without removing one of the few things we know about him, but...

[Bongos]

Durkon's character doesn't need any development. It was the other members of Oots with their deeply flawed characters that did.

Durkon has always been as solid as a rock, reliable, trustworthy. A refreshing voice of reason.

All he really needs is a little more screen time.

[blueboy]

Yeah Durkon's serious but with qirks persona which he started with is what the rest of the characters are gradually developing into. He just needs a spotlight in order to showcase his quirks where he's not just the straight man.

[LuPuWei]

I wouldn't say Durkon has been without character development, the bit with the letters to his home, being kicked out of the Dwarvenlands and also his complete awesomeness in Cliffport (for starters) should count for something-- they did for me.

However, he has had less development than the others, I'll admit, and hasn't been the focus for a while, and he should- I like the Dwarf. But he probably is tougher to write for as of yet than the more dynamic characters.

[Optimystik]

I just don't wanna see Durkon getting character development

Good luck with that.

[Ancalagon]

I wouldn't say Durkon has been without character development, the bit with the letters to his home, being kicked out of the Dwarvenlands and also his complete awesomeness in Cliffport (for starters) should count for something-- they did for me.

Wuh? Did I miss something? ;)

[Bongos]

there is a diffence between character development and character exposition.

[veti]

Durkon's character doesn't need any development. It was the other members of Oots with their deeply flawed characters that did.

Durkon has always been as solid as a rock, reliable, trustworthy. A refreshing voice of reason.

All he really needs is a little more screen time.

Amen, brother.

Durkon's entire role in the party, and in the strip, is to be the one who doesn't change. You need something constant, against which to see and measure everything else around him.

For me, one of the main themes of OOTS is the changing ideas of alignment, and what is/is not acceptable. Without someone sticking to a constant principle, it would be much harder to follow that drift development.

[sol-decentguy]

Well last time Durkon got a solo we found out that he was quite the dwarven ladies man (albeit extremely principled ladies man) maybe he will strike lucky again. That or be the guy to save the day

[Catch]

there is a diffence between character development and character exposition.

Sometimes character development is exposition.

Writers work toward that "Aha!" moment where the audience "gets" the character, which often parallels a character's own self-recognition, but it doesn't have to. Often enough, the defining moments of a character are actually past events, and by discovering them, the reader comes to a greater understanding of the character. The character has changed in the reader's eyes, solely through revelation.

As an example, consider Superman, who, at times, is the paragon of stale characters. Superman changed dramatically for me with his World of Cardboard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_5UwS57X8) speech and the knowledge that he can hear around the world every voice of every person in need. Getting into Superman's head allows the audience to comprehend just how incredibly difficult it is to be the Man of Steel - and that's character development.

If you're a literary type, there's the story "Hands" (http://www.bartleby.com/156/2.html) by Sherwood Anderson, appearing in Winesburg, Ohio (though I could use the whole book as an example), which is a story where, at first glance, nothing of significance happens. A character with strange quirks goes about his way, but by the end of the story, through flashback, we see the source of his neurosis - and thusly the character with a new light.

These moments of understanding are revealed dramatically in their respective stories, and the characters themselves aren't becoming something different, but in the eyes of the audience, they've changed.

This is what I expect of Durkon. As the stoic and enduring voice of reason in the Order, he stands in the background, but I expect there will be a moment when we learn there is much more to Durkon than the mannerisms of his race. I believe quite firmly he earned his Wisdom score.

[Arillius]

I would love to see character development with Durkon. The giant hasn't let me down yet with the others, I doubt he'll do so with the dwarf. And keep in mind develpoment could mean a simple deepening of his beliefs or a reveal that his commitment goes farther then obeying laws and marriage oaths.

[WarBrute]

And with character development comes appearance change, at least generally in this comic anyway. Durkon still looks about the same as he did at the beginning. I wonder if he will come away with something new (or lose something) after this solo campaign.

[veti]

I would love to see character development with Durkon. The giant hasn't let me down yet with the others, I doubt he'll do so with the dwarf. And keep in mind develpoment could mean a simple deepening of his beliefs or a reveal that his commitment goes farther then obeying laws and marriage oaths.

Durkon's character goes so much deeper than that already. I keep making this point, but either people don't agree or (more likely) they just don't read it...

Durkon is the only one in the Order who is not basically motivated by ego. He sees himself less as an individual, more as a part of various much bigger entities - his family, dwarfkind, the church of Thor... He is as much a part of them as "Haley's self-reliance" is a part of her (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0319.html); and he serves them loyally, for much the same reason.


No dwarf is an island entire of itself; every dwarf is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, the continent is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any dwarf's death diminishes me, because I am involved in dwarfkind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation_XVII).

It would be difficult to develop Durkon, in the sense of telling us any more about his character without becoming explicit about his motivations ("I have tae do me duty an' fulfil me destiny so that I can go home an' be buried alongside me pappy! An' hold me head up in th' Afterlife!"). This would reduce him to just another individual with his own personal agenda - which would be character derailment, right there. That's just not what Durkon is aboot.

[Havelock]

Shouldn't V get a sending off and away soon enough?

[Arillius]

Durkon's character goes so much deeper than that already. I keep making this point, but either people don't agree or (more likely) they just don't read it...

Durkon is the only one in the Order who is not basically motivated by ego. He sees himself less as an individual, more as a part of various much bigger entities - his family, dwarfkind, the church of Thor... He is as much a part of them as "Haley's self-reliance" is a part of her (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0319.html); and he serves them loyally, for much the same reason.

Roy isn't motivated by ego either, and its not a very unusual trait for good (alignment) beings.

[SadisticFishing]

Actually, Roy, at the start, WAS very motivated by Ego.

I don't understand this thought that everyone needs character development. Some characters are dynamic, and some are static. Neither is better, unless a story is filled with just one sort, in which case, that sort sucks.

Durkon is already pretty much the most balanced, proper character in the story. He's filled with quirks, and a lot of what he says is hilarious - but he's... Good. Not too Lawful, or insane, like Miko... It's quite refreshing to see a character that is just a GOOD one! And a Lawful one shown to not be insane.

Basically, I love Durkon. More spotlight, not too much development!

[LuPuWei]

Wuh? Did I miss something? ;)


there is a diffence between character development and character exposition.

I dunnow, how he reacted to the Oracle's prophecy, and his approach to the letter home, seemed to say something about him as far as I'm concerned. Ditto to how he handles V on the boat, and Roy's sister in cliffport. Its not much, I agree, but it ain't nuthin' either.


Sometimes character development is exposition.
...
I believe quite firmly he earned his Wisdom score.

Exactly! And I would like to know more about it :smallsmile:

[Ancalagon]

Durkon has a backstory. The things you mentioned pale in comparision to what others have gone through.

He's basically unchanged and untouched by anything that happened so far. I find that quite unbeliveable.

[veti]

Up until the Oracle's prophecy, the fear that haunted Durkon was that he was cut off from his people. That's a fate far worse than death - for him, that would be like being erased from existence. The Oracle reassured him that he would, indeed, be returning home posthumously, which he interpreted (perhaps wrongly) as "buried alongside me pappy etc.", which was the reassurance he wanted - he's not forgotten, he's still a part of dwarfdom. Beside that fear (and reassurance), everything that's happened to the OOTS really does pale into insignificance.

Actually, now I think more about it, I can see one way in which Durkon could be developed without derailing him: put him in a position where he's forced to make a choice, without any handy omens from Thor to guide him. The episode on the boat showed that, despite his wisdom, he's basically rudderless when he doesn't have a strong leader. (So's Vaarsuvius, but she reacted differently. While V exploded, D sort of imploded - refused to take any sort of responsibility at all, letting Elan, of all people, take the lead.) For instance - speculation - give him the option to rescue Belkar from certain, permanent death, or not, without any time to consult Roy or anyone else's opinion.

[LuPuWei]

What if Hilgya suddenly reappears with Durkon's baby? Certainly That would mean character development. See the touching story of a single father dwarf as he tries to save the world, worship Thor and be there for his son all at the same time- on the next episode of The Strong and the Charismatic!

[Optimystik]

Durkon's character doesn't need any development. It was the other members of Oots with their deeply flawed characters that did.

Durkon has always been as solid as a rock, reliable, trustworthy. A refreshing voice of reason.

All he really needs is a little more screen time.

Durkon has plenty of flaws - they just happen to be common to every other dwarf.