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Myou
2010-07-10, 06:56 PM
What are the best psionic powers that aren't also available in the form of a spell? Stuff like Time Regression, which looks very useful.
And of course, what makes them great?

Eurus
2010-07-10, 07:04 PM
You can have so much fun with Quintessence. I'd post examples, but anyone who can't come up with some themselves is beyond hope. :smallamused:

NEO|Phyte
2010-07-10, 07:08 PM
Form of Doom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm), because tentacles.
Decerebrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/decerebrate.htm), because of all the save or dies to protect yourself from, who thinks of the [teleportation] one?
Brain Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/brainLock.htm), because when you're a warforged, being able to stand around while someone that pissed you off slowly dies of dehydration is fun.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-10, 07:12 PM
Deja Vu is a good way to keep enemies who rely on setups away from combat.
Death Urge is just hilarious.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-10, 07:17 PM
Form of Doom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm), because tentacles.
Decerebrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/decerebrate.htm), because of all the save or dies to protect yourself from, who thinks of the [teleportation] one?
Brain Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/brainLock.htm), because when you're a warforged, being able to stand around while someone that pissed you off slowly dies of dehydration is fun.

Does that mean Dimensional Anchor makes the victim immune?

NEO|Phyte
2010-07-10, 07:20 PM
Does that mean Dimensional Anchor makes the victim immune?

Yep. Now ask yourself how many BBEGs will cut off their only escape route to keep from getting their brainstem removed.

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 07:22 PM
Time Hop
Forced Dream
Synchronicity
Anticipatory Strike
Perfect Riposte
Metamorphosis (unlike Polymorph, you can turn into objects.)

EDIT: Decerebrate is extremely useful for being one of the very small list of Will SoDs that isn't [Mind-Affecting].

Snake-Aes
2010-07-10, 07:22 PM
:D It's remotion by Jean Grey or by Wolverine Claw anyway.

Oh, Personality Parasite (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/personalityParasite.htm) is pretty nice to hammer on a caster. It's counterpart, Schism (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/schism.htm) is also excellent.

EvilJoe15
2010-07-10, 07:25 PM
True Mind Switch and Mind Seed are awesome.

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 07:25 PM
Also Astral Seed, aka Phylactery sans LA.

Myou
2010-07-10, 07:27 PM
You can have so much fun with Quintessence. I'd post examples, but anyone who can't come up with some themselves is beyond hope. :smallamused:

I'm... beyond hope. :smallfrown:
I don't see why it's very useful.


Form of Doom (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/formofDoom.htm), because tentacles.
Decerebrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/decerebrate.htm), because of all the save or dies to protect yourself from, who thinks of the [teleportation] one?
Brain Lock (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/brainLock.htm), because when you're a warforged, being able to stand around while someone that pissed you off slowly dies of dehydration is fun.

Ewww, psionics are gross. Dx

But isn't Brain Lock replicating a cantrip? :smallconfused:

tyckspoon
2010-07-10, 07:28 PM
EDIT: Decerebrate is extremely useful for being one of the very small list of Will SoDs that isn't [Mind-Affecting].

Indeed! It's a shame it's a Fort save, really. :smalltongue:


But isn't Brain Lock replicating a cantrip?

Daze: Lasts 1 round, affects Humanoids only, with 4 HD or less.
Brain Lock: Lasts for (concentration)+1 round, not HD restricted, augmentable to affect pretty much everything except monster types that are typically Mindless anyway.

So.. no.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-10, 07:28 PM
But isn't Brain Lock replicating a cantrip? :smallconfused:

Do you know a cantrip that completely disables an enemy for as long as you can stay awake and well fed?

Myou
2010-07-10, 07:36 PM
Time Hop
Forced Dream
Synchronicity
Anticipatory Strike
Perfect Riposte
Metamorphosis (unlike Polymorph, you can turn into objects.)

EDIT: Decerebrate is extremely useful for being one of the very small list of Will SoDs that isn't [Mind-Affecting].

Other than time hope and metamorphosis, I can't find any of those in the srd.




Daze: Lasts 1 round, affects Humanoids only, with 4 HD or less.
Brain Lock: Lasts for (concentration)+1 round, not HD restricted, augmentable to affect pretty much everything except monster types that are typically Mindless anyway.

So.. no.

Good point. :3

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 07:37 PM
Indeed! It's a shame it's a Fort save, really. :smalltongue:

Whoops, I was thinking of the other offensive [Teleportation] move, the one from CPsi. Though that one isn't exactly an SoD.


But isn't Brain Lock replicating a cantrip? :smallconfused:

Do you mean Daze? Because they get that one too, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dazePsionic.htm) and can break the HD limit.

EDIT:


Other than time hope and metamorphosis, I can't find any of those in the srd.

That's because they're not in the SRD. They are in CPsi except Forced Dream, which is MoE.

Tar Palantir
2010-07-10, 07:38 PM
Do you know a cantrip that completely disables an enemy for as long as you can stay awake and well fed?

Prestidigitation?

Snake-Aes
2010-07-10, 07:40 PM
Is there an equivalent to Psychokinetic Weapon? That little gem is a hilarious way to put more oomph on your disarm maneuvers. Gives a whole new meaning to "rip off your arm and beat you with it"

zakkain
2010-07-10, 07:40 PM
Prestidigitation?

"Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour."

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 07:40 PM
Prestidigitation?

"...prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects."

In any case, Psions get it too (Secrets of Sarlona.)

Myou
2010-07-10, 07:43 PM
Forced Dream
Synchronicity
Anticipatory Strike
Perfect Riposte

That's because they're not in the SRD. They are in CPsi except Forced Dream, which is MoE.

Ah, I don't have those books. Any chance you could briefly tell me what they do? I'm curious. ^^;

Snake-Aes
2010-07-10, 07:45 PM
Ah, I don't have those books. Any chance you could briefly tell me what they do? I'm curious. ^^;

anticipatory strike lets you act earlier in a round. perfect riposte makes enemies that miss you generate AoOs.

gallagher
2010-07-10, 08:04 PM
the best part of psionics isnt really having something that arcanists dont have. its that you can take things they already have, and augment them at higher levels to perform more to your liking.

psionic expand can get you two sizes higher with enough power points, while the arcane version only gives you one. i would think up or research more, but i need to sleep (stupid projects)

Doodleface
2010-07-10, 08:18 PM
Vigor - share it with your psicrystal and manifest share pain with your psicrystal.. you are now a tank.

Astral Construct - Like summon monster, but better. And only takes up one powers known slot.

Hustle - Another move action? Yes please!

Skate - Always seemed cool to me.

Time Hop - Possibilities are endless.

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 08:18 PM
Forced Dream allows you to reset one of your turns during the duration, undoing disaster, misfortune etc. This is pretty good in itself, but gets better with the Saved Game trick.

Synchronicity lets you ready a standard action without specifying a condition for it, and take it any time during the round.

aivanther
2010-07-10, 08:41 PM
the best part of psionics isnt really having something that arcanists dont have. its that you can take things they already have, and augment them at higher levels to perform more to your liking.

If you need a really fun example of this: Psionic Dominate a vrock and a beholder for 15 days...with one use of the power.

...

Man that thrallherd was fun, I wonder why the DM hated me.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-10, 08:42 PM
What is the saved game trick?

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 09:53 PM
What is the saved game trick?

Forced Dream works by allowing you to restart one of your turns sometime during the power's duration. Because of this, someone outside of the time stream who activates it will restart their turn - even if their turn began several days ago.

Simply Time Hop the subject (generally, your psicrystal), and its turn will be put on hold until it returns to the time stream, at which point it can activate FD and return everyone to the state they were in at the beginning of the turn when you manifested Forced Dream on him. This will return your party - badly mangled or otherwise - back to that state, with full knowledge of what occurred since then.

Their are other specifics to the trick but that's the overall gist of it. To make it work properly you need a cleric, or an StP Erudite can pull it off solo.

balistafreak
2010-07-10, 10:32 PM
Their are other specifics to the trick but that's the overall gist of it. To make it work properly you need a cleric, or an StP Erudite can pull it off solo.

Freakin' Spell-to-Power Erudites. :smalltongue:

I'm not aware of any real analogue to good ol' humble Energy Stun other than Wings of Flurry, which is a higher level spell but covers more area. Seriously, augmented Energy Stuns are ridiculous and toeing the line of DMG slapping, and might have something to do with the "psionics are broken" myth, because obviously the Psion blaster is better than the Wizard blaster.

(Which might be true, but if you were planning on blasting with your Wizard, you're already behind.)

Keld Denar
2010-07-10, 10:36 PM
That really depends on which Energy Stun you use. The one in the SRD, I'm pretty sure, was a typo. CPsionic, which came out after, reprinted the power (which counts as Errata due to "most recent source") dropped it down to +1d6 damage per extra PP with +1 DC per 2 PP spent in this way.

Its still pretty good, just not DC30 at 10th level good.

Ranos
2010-07-10, 10:46 PM
You can have so much fun with Quintessence. I'd post examples, but anyone who can't come up with some themselves is beyond hope. :smallamused:

-Cryogenic pods
-Deadly poison
-Along with Forced dream for a lesser version of the save game trick

That's the only three uses I can come up with. If you've got more, do tell.

Edit : Oh yeah, and the delayed fireball thing.

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 10:51 PM
Is it that bad? At 10th level you can spend a total of 7 additional PP, for DC 19 (10 + 2 + 7) + Int.

At that same level, A Wizard's highest spells are DC 15 + Int. It's only ahead by 2. Is my math off?

Also, counting CPsi as errata for the XPH sets a very dangerous precedent. Many of it's "updates" are nerfs that were not needed at all, the most egregious being the change to Astral Construct.

Keld Denar
2010-07-10, 10:54 PM
I've also heard it used for preserving your Kaorti Resin weapon between combats, due to the fact that the stuff only has a 1 year shelf life without a little TLC by a real Kaorti every so often. If you coated your weapon in Quintessence after each combat, assuming combat lasts 10 rounds (1 minute tops), and you had 4 combats a day, you could fight 131,400 combats before you're weapon would break down. Assuming the listed average of 13.3 encounters to gain each level, you'd be almost level 9,880 by the time that weapon breaks down.

lol....

EDIT:

Is it that bad? At 10th level you can spend a total of 7 additional PP, for DC 19 (10 + 2 + 7) + Int.

At that same level, A Wizard's highest spells are DC 15 + Int. It's only ahead by 2. Is my math off?
Ahead by 4, you mean.


Also, counting CPsi as errata for the XPH sets a very dangerous precedent. Many of it's "updates" are nerfs that were not needed at all, the most egregious being the change to Astral Construct.
It does suck, but thats the way the rules work. Take Spell Compendium for example. They changed the level of Improvisation from 4th in CAdv to 1st level. Since SpC has the most recent publication date and doesn't conflict with a primary source (PHB, DMG, MM1), it is errata, even if it isn't named as such.

Now, given that EVERY rule in the game is subject to house rules, your DM may allow you to use an older version, but that is Rule 0, not RAW.

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 11:04 PM
Ahead by 4, you mean.


Whoops, so my math was off in that respect. But considering that Psionic Endowment sucks compared to Spell Focus, I don't really mind that the augmentation is a touch stronger.


It does suck, but thats the way the rules work.

I'm aware that it's not RAW, there's no need to educate me :smalltongue:

Ramza00
2010-07-10, 11:36 PM
Repeat after me...Sense Danger...aka psionic version of celerity and foresight rolled into one without the daze part.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-07-10, 11:41 PM
Repeat after me...Sense Danger...aka psionic version of celerity and foresight rolled into one without the daze part.

source please? (and am I right it is an 8th-9th level power?)

Eldariel
2010-07-10, 11:44 PM
Isn't Anticipatory Strike just Celerity, more or less? Really, biggest are the time-messing abilities (well, there's Teleport Through Time (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/pg/20030409b) on the Arcane side but that...messes things up), Synchronity and perhaps Affinity Field; Meta is more or less PAO with less permanent duration (yeah, much lower level but so is Temporal Acceleration and I don't see anyone mentioning it).

Optimystik
2010-07-10, 11:57 PM
source please? (and am I right it is an 8th-9th level power?)

Magic of Eberron, 10 min./level. It lets you retain your Dex bonus to AC when flatfooted. During the surprise round of combat (or just the first round if there is no surprise round) you can manifest any standard action power as an immediate action provided that it does not cost more than 1 PP. (This limit can be augmented.)

Because of the limit, it is only a 3rd-level power for Psions, 2nd-level for Psywars. The max you can augment it to at ML 20 is thus 15, or an 8th-level power.

Interestingly, it does not discharge - meaning that if you are surprised later, you still retain your Dex bonus and still get that immediate action manifestation during the surprise round if caught off-guard later, at the same level you augmented it to that morning. This works extremely well with Persistent Power from Hyperconscious.

Myou
2010-07-11, 04:41 PM
I still don't see any point to Quintessence. :smallconfused:

Using it to put a creature or item in temporal stasis is so circumstantial, that aside from kaorti cheese I really don't see the point. Sure you could use it as a contact poison, only it's not deadly at all, it's worthless. 1 damage a round until it gets wiped off.

tyckspoon
2010-07-11, 04:47 PM
I still don't see any point to Quintessence. :smallconfused:

Using it to put a creature or item in temporal stasis is so circumstantial, that aside from kaorti cheese I really don't see the point. Sure you could use it as a contact poison, only it's not deadly at all, it's worthless. 1 damage a round until it gets wiped off.

You probably don't understand the attraction of Sovereign Glue either, do ya? :smalltongue:

One of the more entertaining ones is with spells that create durable objects- fill a jar of quintessence with Delayed Blast Fireball beads or holly-berry Fire Seeds. Throw it at somebody, scattering enough of the quintessence to free the encapsulated objects, and then let the fireballs go off/say the command word for the firebombs.

PId6
2010-07-11, 05:01 PM
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Psychic Reformation yet. In my book, that's probably the number one most useful effect psionics gets that arcane/divine cannot replicate (though Chaos Shuffle comes close).

Jair Barik
2010-07-11, 05:08 PM
I always liked the one that makes somebodies brain explode if only for the fluff of it. Telekinetic maneuver is always good for laughs and ectoplasmic shambler is kinda funny too.

Endarire
2010-07-11, 05:17 PM
Timeless body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm). For an explanation, see here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-vPJeV4Lvg).

Optimystik
2010-07-11, 05:27 PM
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Psychic Reformation yet. In my book, that's probably the number one most useful effect psionics gets that arcane/divine cannot replicate (though Chaos Shuffle comes close).

Indeed, retraining is the hotness. Get it as a tattoo for even more fun.


Timeless body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm). For an explanation, see here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-vPJeV4Lvg).

Fixed that for you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUueCG5-BrM&feature=related)

Terazul
2010-07-11, 05:33 PM
I still don't see any point to Quintessence. :smallconfused:

Using it to put a creature or item in temporal stasis is so circumstantial, that aside from kaorti cheese I really don't see the point. Sure you could use it as a contact poison, only it's not deadly at all, it's worthless. 1 damage a round until it gets wiped off.

The Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121334) is easily my favorite use of quintessence.

Optimystik
2010-07-11, 05:42 PM
It's the Saved Game trick to the ni power. I didn't think of Quintessence as being a replacement for Time Hop, but it would indeed last quite a bit longer.

Myou
2010-07-12, 04:25 AM
You probably don't understand the attraction of Sovereign Glue either, do ya? :smalltongue:

One of the more entertaining ones is with spells that create durable objects- fill a jar of quintessence with Delayed Blast Fireball beads or holly-berry Fire Seeds. Throw it at somebody, scattering enough of the quintessence to free the encapsulated objects, and then let the fireballs go off/say the command word for the firebombs.

It's gooey, so it sticks to the fireballs, so that doesn't work at all, you'd be relying on rule of cool for it even to have a chance of working. The power even says you have to make an effort to scrape it away.


The Dream of Metal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121334) is easily my favorite use of quintessence.

Even assuming quintessence flows like water, which the text doesn't support, this is entirely pointless. :smallconfused:

It does seem that the only way it's useful is for the saved game trick, but there's no way any DM I know would allow cheating on that level. :smallyuk:

Drascin
2010-07-12, 05:38 AM
Time Hop, Time Hop, Time Hop. It only does everything. Open doors without leaving traces (just time hop the door thirty seconds into the future, go through, it comes back exactly as it was, lock and everything), make yourself dissappear while the Indy boulder goes past, mess with people's heads something fierce... It's the best utility thing ever.

2xMachina
2010-07-12, 06:20 AM
Can also make it SoS.

Time hop the BBEG. Spend the next few rounds buffing/prepping delayed blast fire balls. Ready action to blast him when he returns. Also, surround him so he appears flanked etc.

Radar
2010-07-12, 06:55 AM
Time Hop, Time Hop, Time Hop. It only does everything. Open doors without leaving traces (just time hop the door thirty seconds into the future, go through, it comes back exactly as it was, lock and everything), make yourself dissappear while the Indy boulder goes past, mess with people's heads something fierce... It's the best utility thing ever.
It can also start an epic adventure, if used by the BBEG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihidxSwTGlI). :smallbiggrin:

If you want to mess with time and action economy, psionic powers outmatch arcane magic greatly (at least until wizards can pull off their higher level planar shenanigans).

One, which wasn't yet mentioned is Fusion, but it's either weak or heavy cheese. It has some trickstery potential tough - you only need one sneaky PC per party (if you can fuse a fused being). Even if not, you can still sneak someone in or out of somewhere easily this way.

Drascin
2010-07-12, 08:37 AM
Can also make it SoS.

Time hop the BBEG. Spend the next few rounds buffing/prepping delayed blast fire balls. Ready action to blast him when he returns. Also, surround him so he appears flanked etc.

The problem is that you can't augment the save, so it's hard to get in a Will SoS with save equal to 13+Int mod. Still, at the level you get it, it's indeed pretty workable as a Save-or-be-very-screwed.

Ramza00
2010-07-12, 09:00 AM
Magic of Eberron, 10 min./level. It lets you retain your Dex bonus to AC when flatfooted. During the surprise round of combat (or just the first round if there is no surprise round) you can manifest any standard action power as an immediate action provided that it does not cost more than 1 PP. (This limit can be augmented.)

Because of the limit, it is only a 3rd-level power for Psions, 2nd-level for Psywars. The max you can augment it to at ML 20 is thus 15, or an 8th-level power.

Interestingly, it does not discharge - meaning that if you are surprised later, you still retain your Dex bonus and still get that immediate action manifestation during the surprise round if caught off-guard later, at the same level you augmented it to that morning. This works extremely well with Persistent Power from Hyperconscious.

Combine the Sense Danger power with Synchronicity and now you can manifest any standard action power as an immediate action up to your manifester level as soon as level 5.

Surprise Round while under Sense Danger.
1) Sense Danger goes off allowing you to go first
2) Spend 1 pp to manifest Synchronicity, granting yourself a readied standard action
3) Use the readied standard action immediately to cast another power.
4) Profit

Now at charcter level 9 there is step 3b
3b) Use your next round immediate action and manifest anticipatory strike, allowing you a standard action and a full round of actions (minus your swift actions) before the enemy does anything. This goes on indefinitely while you are under the duration of sense danger and you still have pp.

Magicyop
2010-07-12, 09:55 AM
-Cryogenic pods
-Deadly poison
-Along with Forced dream for a lesser version of the save game trick

That's the only three uses I can come up with. If you've got more, do tell.

Edit : Oh yeah, and the delayed fireball thing.

Ohh, tell me about it. The deadliest poison, since it allows NO SAVE and pretty much damages them FOREVER. Also, if you're in a game with tech, (which I'm playing right now) quintessence will make it so machines NEVER break down. Ever.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-12, 09:58 AM
Ohh, tell me about it. The deadliest poison, since it allows NO SAVE and pretty much damages them FOREVER. Also, if you're in a game with tech, (which I'm playing right now) quintessence will make it so machines NEVER break down. Ever.

Uhh quintessence can be scraped away and takes 10 rounds to work. Using it as poison isn't quite viable.
Can you interact with stuff inside quintessence? What I understood from it is that it is in a temporal stasis condition, and as such wouldn't be usable as anything other than a blunt weapon until the quintessence was removed.

Magicyop
2010-07-12, 10:04 AM
Uhh quintessence can be scraped away and takes 10 rounds to work. Using it as poison isn't quite viable.
Can you interact with stuff inside quintessence? What I understood from it is that it is in a temporal stasis condition, and as such wouldn't be usable as anything other than a blunt weapon until the quintessence was removed.

Not as a contact poison it's not viable, sure. But slip it inside someone's food or drink and they're dead. Wiping time-essence out of your intestines isn't too easy, and any droplet which remains will keep damaging you.

When it comes to machines, what I'm talking about is if you immerse each part of the machine in quintessence, that part will never overheat, break, or anything of the sort. Perfect for things such as brakes on a large machine, or any mechanism at all. It might take a while to cover all the machinery, but once you do, you can have an engine that never breaks down.

(Of course, you're right, if you just immersed the engine in quintessence, it wouldn't work, but immersing every part is what I meant.)

Myou
2010-07-12, 10:19 AM
Not as a contact poison it's not viable, sure. But slip it inside someone's food or drink and they're dead. Wiping time-essence out of your intestines isn't too easy, and any droplet which remains will keep damaging you.

When it comes to machines, what I'm talking about is if you immerse each part of the machine in quintessence, that part will never overheat, break, or anything of the sort. Perfect for things such as brakes on a large machine, or any mechanism at all. It might take a while to cover all the machinery, but once you do, you can have an engine that never breaks down.

(Of course, you're right, if you just immersed the engine in quintessence, it wouldn't work, but immersing every part is what I meant.)

This stuff is silvery goop, you'd have to forcefeed it to them, and even then it lasts only as long as it takes to travel through thier digestive system. Besides which, at 1 damage a round, all they need is some healing on hand and they'll easily outlast it.

Indeed, each time their digestive system moves it further through their body, there's a 75% chance it all vanishes entirely. So it actually doesn't work at all.

And immersing each part of a machine is the same as immersing the whole machine - it stops working. xD

Ryuuk
2010-07-12, 10:39 AM
Is there an arcane or divine equivalent to Correspond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/correspond.htm)?

Optimystik
2010-07-12, 10:40 AM
Quintessence would at best pass right through the consumer's system, and worst evaporate as it moves. I don't think it would work very well as poison, though it would certainly be uncomfortable.


Is there an arcane or divine equivalent to Correspond (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/correspond.htm)?

Seems like Sending, down to the 25 word limit.

Magicyop
2010-07-12, 10:46 AM
This stuff is silvery goop, you'd have to forcefeed it to them, and even then it lasts only as long as it takes to travel through thier digestive system. Besides which, at 1 damage a round, all they need is some healing on hand and they'll easily outlast it.

Indeed, each time their digestive system moves it further through their body, there's a 75% chance it all vanishes entirely. So it actually doesn't work at all.

And immersing each part of a machine is the same as immersing the whole machine - it stops working. xD

You may be right on the first one- but I must protest the second one. A sword immersed in quintessence does not hang in the air, you can pick it up and move it around. Quintessence does not a create an immovable rod. Therefore, a gear immersed in quintessence still has the capability to spin. Two gears immersed in quintessence separately should have the capability to spin each other. Etcetera.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-12, 10:52 AM
You may be right on the first one- but I must protest the second one. A sword immersed in quintessence does not hang in the air, you can pick it up and move it around. Quintessence does not a create an immovable rod. Therefore, a gear immersed in quintessence still has the capability to spin. Two gears immersed in quintessence separately should have the capability to spin each other. Etcetera.
And how would the pieces interact with each other? There is some contact, or they won't interact. And contact will either scrape it off or meld the two quintessences.


Quintessence would at best pass right through the consumer's system, and worst evaporate as it moves. I don't think it would work very well as poison, though it would certainly be uncomfortable.
Seems like Sending, down to the 25 word limit.

The primary difference is that Sending can only trade one pair of messages per casting, while correspond remains for 1 round/level.

Optimystik
2010-07-12, 10:54 AM
You may be right on the first one- but I must protest the second one. A sword immersed in quintessence does not hang in the air, you can pick it up and move it around. Quintessence does not a create an immovable rod. Therefore, a gear immersed in quintessence still has the capability to spin. Two gears immersed in quintessence separately should have the capability to spin each other. Etcetera.

Yes, but at some point your machine has to be connected to something that isn't submerged in Quintessence, otherwise the whole shebang is outside the time stream and it being preserved is pointless. Also, partial immersion doesn't do a thing by RAW except harm living creatures. You have to "seal objects within" to preserve them.



The primary difference is that Sending can only trade one pair of messages per casting, while correspond remains for 1 round/level.

True, but Sending has the advantage of not being [Mind-Affecting.]

Magicyop
2010-07-12, 10:54 AM
And how would the pieces interact with each other? There is some contact, or they won't interact. And contact will either scrape it off or meld the two quintessences.


Where does that come from? There's nothing in the power description about 'melding' two objects immersed in quintessence, and it mentions that you have to actively try to scrape it off, not that it will scrape off accidentally.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-12, 10:56 AM
That goes under "raw dickery" pretty fast. What is scraping something? Next thing you'll tell me that without the psychological intent of scraping it, the quintessence will conveniently ignore the fact it's being rubbed/ground by some external force.

Myou
2010-07-12, 11:14 AM
You may be right on the first one- but I must protest the second one. A sword immersed in quintessence does not hang in the air, you can pick it up and move it around. Quintessence does not a create an immovable rod. Therefore, a gear immersed in quintessence still has the capability to spin. Two gears immersed in quintessence separately should have the capability to spin each other. Etcetera.

I think the following posters pretty thoroughly debunked that idea. :smalltongue:

And I'm with Snake-Aes, for parts to interact they can't be entirely covered, and as Optimystik says, the machine can't be totally covered if it's going to interact with anything.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-12, 11:17 AM
True, but Sending has the advantage of not being [Mind-Affecting.]

Oh? That bit escaped me. Does that mean you can't correspond with the lich? Someone has to slap the [harmless] tag in it.

Optimystik
2010-07-12, 11:23 AM
Oh? That bit escaped me. Does that mean you can't correspond with the lich? Someone has to slap the [harmless] tag in it.

Worse, your scout has to drop his Mind Blank for you to communicate with him - suddenly, he's on the enemy's Mindsight radar. Or your Slayer friend that got captured - well, now you know where he is, but his interrogators can read his mind.

All "harmless" does is let a friendly target choose to save or not - it has no effect on immunity.

I do think it's better than Sending, but you never know what a DM can come up with to bite you in the posterior.