PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Spellbook paranoia and sadistic DM



fortesama
2010-07-11, 08:29 AM
one of my friends decided to join our campaign and decided to play a wizard and the following incident made me think that he might really hate spellcasters.

We're already at around level 12 when he came in so he was inserted as a level 12 wizard. Five minutes in and the DM caused his spellbook to explode with no explanation whatsoever, effectively reducing him to a commoner with a good will save. I'm guessing only reason he couldn't pull a similar stunt with me is because i'm running a (only) cleric specializing in persisting party buffs and everyone else would complain if he took me out just like that being the only healer (with DMM persisted haste).

Suffice to say, Complete Arcane's spellbook protection stuff just won't do along with other stuff such as shrunk spellbooks sewn into a rather... inconvenient piece of clothing.

The challenge is this: how could mr. wizard be able to, say, memorize his entire spellbook and prepare his spells from memory without resorting to the spell mastery feat? When i say memorize, I mean using his mind as a spellbook instead of using a sheet of paper. That would help prevent spellbook attacks.

and no, making his brain explode to attack his "spellbook" wont be a tactic he'll employ. I'll see to that.

A tatooed spellbook might be interesting. any idea on how to make it a viable replacement for an actual spellbook?

Snake-Aes
2010-07-11, 08:32 AM
Two levels in geometer and you get all spells consuming 1 page instead of 1 per level. But if the dm is just hellbent on breaking the spellbook, you're hosed. If you're desperate, spell mastery on Leomund's Chest and keep your spellbook there when you are done preparing. If he's still screwing the wizard with that, make a new character.

Bayar
2010-07-11, 08:35 AM
one of my friends decided to join our campaign and decided to play a wizard and the following incident made me think that he might really hate spellcasters.

We're already at around level 12 when he came in so he was inserted as a level 12 wizard. Five minutes in and the DM caused his spellbook to explode with no explanation whatsoever, effectively reducing him to a commoner with a good will save. I'm guessing only reason he couldn't pull a similar stunt with me is because i'm running a (only) cleric specializing in persisting party buffs and everyone else would complain if he took me out just like that being the only healer (with DMM persisted haste).

Suffice to say, Complete Arcane's spellbook protection stuff just won't do along with other stuff such as shrunk spellbooks sewn into a rather... inconvenient piece of clothing.

The challenge is this: how could mr. wizard be able to, say, memorize his entire spellbook and prepare his spells from memory without resorting to the spell mastery feat? When i say memorize, I mean using his mind as a spellbook instead of using a sheet of paper. That would help prevent spellbook attacks.

and no, making his brain explode to attack his "spellbook" wont be a tactic he'll employ. I'll see to that.

A tatooed spellbook might be interesting. any idea on how to make it a viable replacement for an actual spellbook?

Buy another normal spellbook, fill it with spells, bash the DM's head in with the DMG if he ever tries this with no explanation ever again.

WinWin
2010-07-11, 08:51 AM
Thought bottle might help. Would still need to write the spells down again, but the knowledge can be contained and accessable only by the wizard.

In addition, he can have a set of prepared spells ready as well.

Tatooed spells might work...Especially if they were tattooed on an improved familliar.

If you have a base of operations, carving spells onto the walls could work.

Otherwise, tell the DM to ease up a bit. Your cleric has access to his powers, the weapons of the non-spellcasters probably don't explode either. Without the tools he needs, the Wizard is just dead weight.

Shpadoinkle
2010-07-11, 08:52 AM
Yeah... this DM sounds like a jerk. I'd ask him what the deal is, and if he doesn't give a straight answer, I'd just leave the group. Not playing is better than playing with a jackass DM.

Kylarra
2010-07-11, 09:11 AM
Reroll with the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF so you don't have a spellbook. :smallamused:

Riffington
2010-07-11, 09:11 AM
This is one event, so we may not be getting the whole story. Is he actually banning wizards without saying so? Or is this an important plot point that you just don't know yet? If he's a jerk, leave. If this is a plot point, have fun with it. Or be a sorcerer.

Morph Bark
2010-07-11, 09:22 AM
Thought bottle might help. Would still need to write the spells down again, but the knowledge can be contained and accessable only by the wizard.

In addition, he can have a set of prepared spells ready as well.

Tatooed spells might work...Especially if they were tattooed on an improved familliar.

On an improved familiar would be bad, since the familiar can be killed easily still... and it's debateable whether or not spells can be tattooed on the bodies of creatures other than the caster himself.

Not too familiar with the Thought Bottle myself, but what if it were destroyed?

Zeta Kai
2010-07-11, 09:24 AM
If he's a jerk, leave. If this is a plot point, have fun with it. Or be a sorcerer.

Agreed & +1. Although the likelyhood of him being is increased when you consider that he didn't warn the player ahead of time. I'd judge that as a given courtesy, even as part of the basic campaign info that each player should get before they play, so they know what they're getting into.

DM: "Okay, so we're playing D&D, 3.5E, & my campaign takes place in my homemade setting, Thyrenacia."
Player: "Oh, okay, cool. Can I be a Wizard?"
DM: "Uh, yeah. Sure, you can do that. You, um, you should be aware though, that I plan to, er, take away the party Wizard's spellbook."
Player: "LOLWUT?"

Morph Bark
2010-07-11, 09:32 AM
So far, if he still wants to stick to this character, the best idea seems to me a combo of Snake-Aes' suggestion of geometer and tattooing his spellbook instead of writing it in an actual book. This will make it so he can get many spells tattooed on his body and doesn't need more than one "spellbook"... err... "spellskin"? "Spellbody"? Whatever, you get the point. :smallwink:

Sliver
2010-07-11, 09:36 AM
This is really a jerk move, plot point or not. Nerfing the most basic function of a player's character without informing him is being a jerk. If it has no "you are too powerful" consideration, you aren't only obliged to inform the player, but you need to consult with him and decide with him on how you are playing this out, how long it will be, and what he can do to mitigate it. I put a 10% power failure item on one of my player's character as he was joining him, and that was with his full approval and he knew he will be part of that quest to remove the item.

Also, you said the only reason he didn't do something like that to your cleric was that others would complain. Do you think he would blow up your deity so you won't have spell access?:smalleek:

BobVosh
2010-07-11, 09:39 AM
Agreed & +1. Although the likelyhood of him being is increased when you consider that he didn't warn the player ahead of time. I'd judge that as a given courtesy, even as part of the basic campaign info that each player should get before they play, so they know what they're getting into.

DM: "Okay, so we're playing D&D, 3.5E, & my campaign takes place in my homemade setting, Thyrenacia."
Player: "Oh, okay, cool. Can I be a Wizard?"
DM: "Uh, yeah. Sure, you can do that. You, um, you should be aware though, that I plan to, er, take away the party Wizard's spellbook."
Player: "LOLWUT?"


This.

Also I recommend beguiler to replace wizard. Or dread necromancer. Both work well.

SilveryCord
2010-07-11, 09:40 AM
When you're DMing, removing spells written on a character's body is no more difficult than removing a spellbook. It just makes the players more angry...

But really, I would be more foreward about it, but if I was DMing, I wouldn't let anyone play a wizard in the first place.

Khellendross
2010-07-11, 09:46 AM
There is a Dragon Magazine Wizard alt class feature that gives up your familiar and scribe scroll feat in exchange for losing your spell book. All your spells are up in your head. It gives new rules for "scribing" new spells in your head. Basically you become a sorc with a int casting stat and more versatility. If you want that scribe scroll feat back take it as a bonus feat, same with at 3rd level taking obtain familiar which is better than a normal one.

There is also the feat spell mastery.

NelKor
2010-07-11, 11:11 AM
Couldn't the cleric just repair the spellbook with that level 1 spell? It's name is eluding me at the moment, but it is a mundane object with expensive ink.

nedz
2010-07-11, 11:40 AM
Couldn't the cleric just repair the spellbook with that level 1 spell? It's name is eluding me at the moment, but it is a mundane object with expensive ink.

Or perhaps, if he'd memorized it, the wizard could have used that, oh so useful, 0 level cantrip, whose name escapes me, which does precisely that:smallsmile:. Or maybe the Spellbook was beyond this. :smallcool:

This DM action does sound a tad harsh, especially to a new player.
Did the DM not want him in the group ?

Zeful
2010-07-11, 11:53 AM
Couldn't the cleric just repair the spellbook with that level 1 spell? It's name is eluding me at the moment, but it is a mundane object with expensive ink.

No, neither Mending (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mending.htm) or Make Whole (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/makeWhole.htm) would work. If someone tore the book in half, Mending would work. If someone tore pages into small pieces then Make Whole would work. But since the book exploded it would be very easy to rule that the book has multiple breaks in it (disqualifying Mending) and that the book has been burnt (disqualifying Make Whole).

Honestly, despite being the guy who would encourage another DM to attack a player's spellbook. This is going too far, stealing the book, damaging the book so that Mending/Make Whole can fix it are totally fine, but invalidating the class from the word "Go" is not sporting and can't ever be fun.

PId6
2010-07-11, 12:05 PM
Tell him to buy a new spellbook, get a scroll of Secret Page to refill the book one spell at a time, and then bash in the head of the DM if he ever blows it up again.

Optimystik
2010-07-11, 12:12 PM
Reroll Psion, proceed to thumb nose.

Deth Muncher
2010-07-11, 12:41 PM
Knife to the kidneys?

Not the DM, silly, every NPC in the campaign.

Skeletor
2010-07-11, 01:10 PM
get a lore gem fill it with spells. After memorizing it each day swallow it, in the morning do your business and then memorize your spells. :smallsmile:

Aquillion
2010-07-11, 02:01 PM
Talk to the DM out-of-character. There are more serious issues here than rules and spellbooks.

FMArthur
2010-07-11, 02:22 PM
If you can somehow get it and persist it, the 2nd level Assassin spell Absorb Weapon can be used in a roundabout way; Get a shield with a shield compartment, put your book in the compartment, and absorb it. It needs to be spiked to count as a weapon for the spell. You'd need to alter your build heavily just for this one trick; I don't know how you'd get a 2nd level Assassin spell, maybe as an eternal wand but I don't know if you can apply metamagic to wands. Incantrix can let you persist your spell.

Skorj
2010-07-11, 02:23 PM
Honestly, despite being the guy who would encourage another DM to attack a player's spellbook. This is going too far, stealing the book, damaging the book so that Mending/Make Whole can fix it are totally fine, but invalidating the class from the word "Go" is not sporting and can't ever be fun.

That was my first thought as well, reminding me of Woodfull's line about famously unsportsmanlike play "...there are 2 teams out there and only one of them is playing cricket". The game only works if you can trust the DM. The DM gets to make all the rules. if he still has to cheat, find a better DM.

I've never quite understood why anyone would play D&D without magic. 3.5 is a fairly shallow man-level combat system - there's far more rich fare out there if you just want a clash of swords. The strength of D&D is in the most diverse and flavorful magic system I've seen.

Just don't let the party get away with the "15-minute day", ban outright any particular spells you find game breaking, and enjoy the game for what it is. Sure, tier-1 casters will make battles with small groups of mooks trivial, but what kind of story are you telling here?

2xMachina
2010-07-11, 02:23 PM
Reroll Psion, proceed to thumb nose.

Also works if the DM likes to tie you up or gag you.

Psion has much less powers known though. (but comes with augment and nova)

lsfreak
2010-07-11, 02:30 PM
Honestly, if that happened, I'd probably turn to the new person and say out loud, while packing my stuff, without ever addressing the DM, "I'm sorry, I thought this DM was good, but I guess he's just an *******. Sorry for wasting your time. Do you need a ride home?"

If he did that, nothing you will do will keep the spellbook safe, because the DM is abusing Rule 0 to do whatever the hell he feels like, rules be damned.

Prodan
2010-07-11, 02:30 PM
get a lore gem fill it with spells. After memorizing it each day swallow it, in the morning do your business and then memorize your spells. :smallsmile:

That is a sh***y solution.

Mr.Moron
2010-07-11, 02:35 PM
get a lore gem fill it with spells. After memorizing it each day swallow it, in the morning do your business and then memorize your spells. :smallsmile:

Wouldn't this just kill you when the Loregem randomly explodes?

dariathalon
2010-07-11, 02:37 PM
Talk to the DM out-of-character. There are more serious issues here than rules and spellbooks.

Exactly. You need to talk to the DM in private. It is possible that you don't know the whole story. Maybe the DM has worked it out with the player in advance. Maybe he has a cool plot twist planned revolving around this. Maybe the DM noticed that the new player's sheet was full of cheating and decided to teach him a lesson. (Not how I would have handled it, but a possibility that would at least have me a little less annoyed with him.)

Even if the DM was just doing this without a good reason in mind, talking to him one-on-one is the best way to work it out. Don't be confrontational about it, just as what the heck was going on at first. If he doesn't give you a satisfactory answer, point out that it probably didn't help the new player's enjoyment of the game. While yes, that sort of thing could happen once in awhile, probably not best to lay it all on the new guy. Maybe discuss with him a method or two for handling resolving the situation in a fun way.

Looking to handle what is essentially an interpersonal problem with game mechanics is only asking for more trouble.

2xMachina
2010-07-11, 02:38 PM
That is a sh***y solution.

Yeah. Ew.

Also, :smallcool: for you.

SocratesOnFire
2010-07-11, 02:56 PM
If you keep the book in an extradimensional space (Heward's Handy Haversack, Bag o' Holding) it should be immune to any spell or combat effect while you're not actively using it (such effects cannot cross extradimensional boundaries). You should also make any new book out of an extremely hard metal (it is possible, using the rules for mithril prices per pound, to estimate the costs of an adamantine bound or even Obdurium [3.0] bound book) and regularly cast Augment Object, doubling the hardness and hit points of the book and granting it saving throws in the event it is affected when you're not "attending" it.
Tattoos also work, and there's no reason you can't tattoo your party members as well for the extra space, since tattooed spells are just ways of writing down information on skin instead of paper. This works better when combined with Geometer prestige class.

Munchkin-Masher
2010-07-11, 03:05 PM
1. Play shadowcraft mage.

2. tatoo Silent image on 1 hand.

3. Take Arcane Disciple luck domain.

4. Take revenge on DM by casting over 9000 free miracles every day.

5. ???

6. Profit

Zeful
2010-07-11, 03:16 PM
Escalate the problem with and get kicked out of the group for being a jerk.

Fixed that for you. :smallmad:

Your advice only get's a player kicked out of the group, and causes the entire table to not trust you. The DM may have started it but you do not give the DM more ammo to screw with you, because now, he's justified in doing it. Further, if most of the table don't bother optimizing, you've proven the DM right in his actions when he blew up the spellbook.

Starfols
2010-07-11, 03:33 PM
Become a necropolitan or awakened zombie, and store the book inside you. :smalltongue:

Bayar
2010-07-11, 03:40 PM
Fixed that for you. :smallmad:

Your advice only get's a player kicked out of the group, and causes the entire table to not trust you. The DM may have started it but you do not give the DM more ammo to screw with you, because now, he's justified in doing it. Further, if most of the table don't bother optimizing, you've proven the DM right in his actions when he blew up the spellbook.

There was a story on 4chan's /tg/ about one guy who hit the DM with a hardcover DMG for being a useless pile of flesh. you should read that and understand why sometimes, a punch in the face is better than a thousand words.

Also, I doubt that the DM will get more ammo to screw with you, seeing how you knocked him out...

gorfnab
2010-07-11, 04:57 PM
Reroll with the Eidetic Spellcaster ACF so you don't have a spellbook. :smallamused:
On that note

Grey Elf from Monster Manual I
Elf Wizard racial ACF Races of the Wild page 157
Eidetic Spellcaster ACF Dragon #357 page 89
Spontaneous Divination ACF Complete Champion page 52
Collegiate Wizard feat Complete Arcane page 181
Eschew Materials feat from Player's Handbook I

First level - 7+ Int mod 1st level spells known, all cantrips, 1 extra 1st level spell per day, spontaneous divinations
Second level+ - 5 additional spells known per level, spontaneous divinations, one extra spell per day of highest level
No Familiar, No Scribe Scroll, No Spellbook, No Spell Component Pouch (except for spells with material components above 1gp)

Zeful
2010-07-11, 06:38 PM
There was a story on 4chan's /tg/ about one guy who hit the DM with a hardcover DMG for being a useless pile of flesh. you should read that and understand why sometimes, a punch in the face is better than a thousand words.

Also, I doubt that the DM will get more ammo to screw with you, seeing how you knocked him out...

How is that at all relevant to what Munchkin-Masher's point, or my rebuttal thereof?

Caphi
2010-07-11, 06:55 PM
Fixed that for you. :smallmad:

Your advice only get's a player kicked out of the group, and causes the entire table to not trust you. The DM may have started it but you do not give the DM more ammo to screw with you, because now, he's justified in doing it. Further, if most of the table don't bother optimizing, you've proven the DM right in his actions when he blew up the spellbook.

You've proven the DM right in... being a [REDACTED] to any player whose class he just doesn't like, because sometimes people play that class really well?

That sort of logic is entirely outside the bounds of being right and wrong.

Optimystik
2010-07-11, 06:57 PM
@ Zeful: The DM is never "right" in arbitrarily detonating a character's spellbook. If he has a problem with what the player is doing, then it should be taken up with the player, not his character.

@ Bayar: Similarly, it is never right to punch your DM in the face, or use a hardcover book, or any other form of physical attack. We joke about throwing books a lot here... but if you ever find yourself compelled to act on such impulses over a game, it's a much better use of your time to simply pick up your dice and go home - no matter what sort of sage advice 4chan may have to offer. Life's too short.

D Knight
2010-07-11, 07:07 PM
there is the option of token spell books its in complete arcane pg 187. put a belt of many pockets and now your DM can not destroy all of your spell book quickly short of taking/destroying the belt.

Zeful
2010-07-11, 07:12 PM
You've proven the DM right in... being a [REDACTED] to any player whose class he just doesn't like, because sometimes people play that class really well?

That sort of logic is entirely outside the bounds of being right and wrong.

Go back and read Munchkin-Masher's post. He's not talking about a build that while powerful, is sensible for most levels of play. He's talking about turning every spell slot into a Shadow Miracle that is more than 100% real. It is not a build you should be using to get back a DM, all you will do is make things worse. If you think that the "Killer Gnome" is a valid response to DM action, leave, you will save friends and not give the DM a reason to hit you in the head with a book.

Prodan
2010-07-11, 07:12 PM
there is the option of token spell books its in complete arcane pg 187. put a belt of many pockets and now your DM can not destroy all of your spell book quickly short of taking/destroying the belt.

Which is probably exactly what would happen.

Caphi
2010-07-11, 07:21 PM
Go back and read Munchkin-Masher's post. He's not talking about a build that while powerful, is sensible for most levels of play. He's talking about turning every spell slot into a Shadow Miracle that is more than 100% real. It is not a build you should be using to get back a DM, all you will do is make things worse. If you think that the "Killer Gnome" is a valid response to DM action, leave, you will save friends and not give the DM a reason to hit you in the head with a book.

It doesn't matter. It's not right, but it doesn't make what the DM originally did right. There are arguments against shadow cheese that aren't incredibly boneheaded, but that's not one of them.

Zeful
2010-07-11, 07:25 PM
It doesn't matter. It's not right, but it doesn't make what the DM originally did right. There are arguments against shadow cheese that aren't incredibly boneheaded, but that's not one of them.

No it doesn't, but from a specific point of view (one of a non-optimized game) it will be the response. Escalating the situation does not help ones argument, and only serves to make you look petty.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-11, 07:26 PM
Long Story Short: DM pulled a **** move, player is wondering what is going on. Asked for advice and some of it was to "sit on cheese and hurl it at his head". Lovely.


Ask the dm outside the game sessions why he did that. If he pulls something *******y like "because wizards are too powerful" or "because I can", then tell him he's being unreasonable.

Lord Vukodlak
2010-07-11, 07:29 PM
Find a new DM tell the one you have grows up, if the dungeon master doesn't want someone to play a wizard that's fine but he has to tell them before they start playing. Randomly destroying spellbooks for no reason is the worst kind of DMing.

Fcannon
2010-07-11, 08:18 PM
As far as actually memorizing the whole book-Autohypnosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/skills/autohypnosis.htm)>? I don't remember if a spellbook's contents count as "magical writing" or not.

Prodan
2010-07-11, 08:21 PM
They do, unfortunately.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-07-11, 08:30 PM
So, here are some of the previously mentioned options, ranked from best to worst.

- Talking to the DM, assuming he admits he made a mistake and mends his ways
- Someone else DMs
- Eidetic Spellcaster ACF with Collegiate Wizard, Elven Generalist, Spontaneous Divination, et cetera
- Psion
- Beguiler

...

- RL Violence
- Shadow Miracles

elonin
2010-07-11, 08:34 PM
Liked the idea about the leomonds secret chest, though if the dm is after the spell book then he would likely use dm fiat to have someone happen upon it on the astral plane. I also disliked the spell cause some plot points could have you flung into different planes that could make the book inaccessible.

As has been stated before we don't know what is really going on, but I'd cry foul if the dm weren't also targeting the rest of the party, by having their stuff stolen or sundered. I'd have a private conversation with the dm and either make a psion or leave the group.

fortesama
2010-07-11, 09:45 PM
Couldn't pull a straight answer off the DM short of a rant about how casters in general become useless when their spells ran out. In any case, he bought a new spellbook, but he happened to be a specialist transmuter who banned evoc and ench spells. Take a guess what the spellbook is filled with.

So he promptly had mr wizard commit suicide so he could roll up a spell to power erudite and i see an eidetic lock in his powers list, kinda giving me an idea on what he intended.

I considered teaching him the beholder mage trick but i decided to save it for now since it might spark an arms race (which, I think might be amusing to watch.)

PapaNachos
2010-07-11, 09:47 PM
His solution to casters becoming useless once their spells run out is to not let you use them in the first place?

I suggest getting a new DM.

Shadowbane
2010-07-11, 09:57 PM
Yeah. Ew.

Also, :smallcool: for you.

I think you meant YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Ew.

Hague
2010-07-11, 10:01 PM
That DM's got some issues. If you don't like wizards, you need to lay out ground rules for how they are nerfed, not by randomly dumping stupid crap on them.

As I've mentioned before, the best way to make casters bonkers is to make areas that they need to access where magic simply doesn't work (or functions but requires concentration checks for every casting) Simply yanking the wizard's spellbook is just mean-spirited.

Pechvarry
2010-07-11, 10:05 PM
Normally, I'm against in-game payback for player/DM issues. In this case, I like the idea of the StP erudite, and hopefully, eventually a beholder-wich.

Grumman
2010-07-12, 01:25 AM
Also works if the DM likes to tie you up or gag you.
Acidic spit and death attack also works.

Unfortunately, in this case there are only two options: convince the DM to not be a jerk, or quit the game.

2xMachina
2010-07-12, 01:41 AM
@ Zeful: The DM is never "right" in arbitrarily detonating a character's spellbook. If he has a problem with what the player is doing, then it should be taken up with the player, not his character.

@ Bayar: Similarly, it is never right to punch your DM in the face, or use a hardcover book, or any other form of physical attack. We joke about throwing books a lot here... but if you ever find yourself compelled to act on such impulses over a game, it's a much better use of your time to simply pick up your dice and go home - no matter what sort of sage advice 4chan may have to offer. Life's too short.

I'm pretty sure you shouldn't take 4chan advice, EVER.


I think you meant YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. Ew.

Oh, lol, unintended pun.

Optimystik
2010-07-12, 01:55 AM
I'm pretty sure you shouldn't take 4chan advice, EVER.

The "sage advice" was sarcasm, I assure you.
(Also, a small pun for those familiar with /b/).

chiasaur11
2010-07-12, 02:05 AM
Knife to the kidneys?

Not the DM, silly, every NPC in the campaign.

Well, yeah, if you're a SISSY.

Bayar
2010-07-12, 02:47 AM
Edit: Disregard, I suck ass.

Zeful
2010-07-12, 03:42 AM
So what you are saying is that the DM is justified in hitting the player with a book because he pulled stinky cheese, but the player is not justified to hit the DM with a book because the DM acted like a downright prick.

I see a problem here.

Strawman: I never said that.

Vizzerdrix
2010-07-12, 08:03 AM
Best place to keep the book: In someone elses game.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-12, 08:10 AM
So what you are saying is that the DM is justified in hitting the player with a book because he pulled stinky cheese, but the player is not justified to hit the DM with a book because the DM acted like a downright prick.

I see a problem here.

Yes, escalation. Why would you just piss the dm off if he's already made such a move already? It inevitably ends with you leaving the group, so you might as well do it without the hate.

Bayar
2010-07-12, 08:15 AM
Strawman: I never said that.

That's what I get for going without sleep for too long. For some reason, I read a couple of posts wrongly. Sorry for that. You are right, my mistake.

fortesama
2010-07-12, 09:44 AM
I think I've got everything me and my friend needs. The fact that he switched to a StP Erudite might have eliminated any further spellbook heartaches, though I hope no one discovers the existence of a dorje of Apopsi lest we have a disaster. All in all thanks for the suggestion

@Sliver: thanks for the concern. Thankfully we're playing in a custom setting where clerics dont need gods for domains and spell access, though it follows that i was also given free reign on domain combinations as long as they don't contradict. now that i think about it, it doesn't look like it occured to the DM to blow up my holy symbol yet. maybe it's because everyone else would cry foul if he tried as it would deprive them their several of their oh so loved persistent party buffs and heals?

2xMachina
2010-07-12, 09:46 AM
^ If it's like that, make him play a God wizard.

They'll love his battle control and utility.

thompur
2010-07-12, 10:05 AM
Edit: Disregard, I suck ass.

What? Trying to help Skeletor get to his Lore Gem faster?:smalltongue::smallwink:

Optimystik
2010-07-12, 10:10 AM
What? Trying to help Skeletor get to his Lore Gem faster?:smalltongue::smallwink:

Thanks for that. I had JUST gotten the mental image of that scheme out of my head. :smallannoyed:

*Heads to Home Depot for more brain bleach*

2xMachina
2010-07-12, 10:40 AM
ew, lol. 2girl1cup reaction lol

Skeletor
2010-07-12, 10:44 AM
ew, lol. 2girl1cup reaction lol

2wizards1loregem

Skeletor
2010-07-12, 06:42 PM
alternatively you could use shrink item on the spell book and do the same thing, may be cheaper than a lore gem.

fortesama
2010-07-12, 06:57 PM
That would make for a rather... interesting preparation period. Whose to say the book won't explode while inside? or perhaps a very inconvenient time for an AMF to come into play (unless your body can block line of effect)?

Now that the spellbook problems are taken care of, and since my friend is now "borrowing" spells from the wizard's spellbook for more powers, any suggestions for good non-discipline powers selection other than temporal acceleration. and good discipline powers other than schism?

Skeletor
2010-07-12, 07:01 PM
I don't get why a spell book would explode in the first place, they aren't inherently magical. It's not like you're writing down the process for casting a light spell in nitroglycerin.

Observer
2010-07-12, 07:10 PM
I don't get why a spell book would explode in the first place, they aren't inherently magical. It's not like you're writing down the process for casting a light spell in nitroglycerin.

The only way I can think of this happening is if his wizard bought the spellbook from another wizard, and that wizard wrote the entire thing's contents in Explosive Runes. However, considering the explosion supposedly only destroyed the book and didn't horribly mangle its owner, that probably isn't the case.

fortesama
2010-07-12, 09:40 PM
Oh yeah, is there an easily printable list of psionic powers anywhere, perhaps much like what crystal keep did? Since I'm the only one who has the most complete collection among them (thank you for your gift my cousin), I don't want to have to lug around an extra bag just for those and the pdfs from crystal keep helped reduce most of the spell searching to one common binder. and yes, google has failed me.

Kylarra
2010-07-12, 09:51 PM
Oh yeah, is there an easily printable list of psionic powers anywhere, perhaps much like what crystal keep did? Since I'm the only one who has the most complete collection among them (thank you for your gift my cousin), I don't want to have to lug around an extra bag just for those and the pdfs from crystal keep helped reduce most of the spell searching to one common binder. and yes, google has failed me.You can pull the legit ones in rtf format here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35).

2xMachina
2010-07-13, 07:37 AM
Well, IIRC, it's is legit to just list the names. It's the direct quoting that's a problem.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19537882/What_Is_the_Most_Powerful_Psionic_Power

^ Should be a good guide to stuff you can get.

mjames
2010-07-13, 10:10 AM
There is a RuneMage in Races of Stone, that it appears hasn't been mentioned. All of your spells are written on any hard surface including shields and armor or just a big stone tablet. The downside is the armor proficiency requirement, but full spellcasting progression.

fortesama
2010-07-13, 06:48 PM
Hmm, haven't thought about that. Next time someone tries to run a wizard with the current DM, let's see if I can get him to write his spells on their stuff (with two geometer levels for good measure) in addition to his regular spellbook. While the book is still liable to explode, i doubt that their, as it is now, customized stuff that they poured their money into would suffer the same without any violent reactions.

Vizzerdrix
2010-07-13, 08:14 PM
I still don't get why the DM did it?

Optimystik
2010-07-13, 08:17 PM
I still don't get why the DM did it?

Bibliophobia?

fortesama
2010-07-13, 08:55 PM
now that i think about it, other than that epic-level evoker that my once-wizard friend bought from (i say epic since he uses that guy to keep players in line with epic spells) i'm not seeing any other wizard NPCs anywhere. plenty of clerics, sorcerers, warlocks, druids and a disproportionately high number of martial-type NPCs and an impossibly large number of Warblade, Crusader or Swordsage NPCs and their ilk but no other wizard (or for that matter, NPC classes, though that was explained by hiim with the world being so dangerous that every NPC down to the last man has at least one class level but no NPC class level. Even the unassuming shopkeeper has 3 levels of rogue). I'm getting a feeling that there might be a plot point he's not willing to spoil and banning wizards might give it away.

Zeful
2010-07-13, 09:29 PM
now that i think about it, other than that epic-level evoker that my once-wizard friend bought from (i say epic since he uses that guy to keep players in line with epic spells) i'm not seeing any other wizard NPCs anywhere. plenty of clerics, sorcerers, warlocks, druids and a disproportionately high number of martial-type NPCs and an impossibly large number of Warblade, Crusader or Swordsage NPCs and their ilk but no other wizard (or for that matter, NPC classes, though that was explained by hiim with the world being so dangerous that every NPC down to the last man has at least one class level but no NPC class level. Even the unassuming shopkeeper has 3 levels of rogue). I'm getting a feeling that there might be a plot point he's not willing to spoil and banning wizards might give it away.

He's probably read somewhere that Wizards can get all the spells on their list for "free". It's one of the reason Wizards in my own setting have the lowest world population of any class I run (pretty much you won't find one unless you go looking for one specifically or there are PLOT issues).