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zenanarchist
2010-07-11, 10:55 PM
Just what it says!

I'm looking to boost my homebrew class with a very high int (high wis is a bonus) race, doesn't matter if they take penalties to strength or dexterity or con. The main aim of the class is to stay away.

I thought pixie....but that level adjustment is KILLER.

Anyone know of anything awesome?

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-11, 10:56 PM
Primordial (Secrets of Xen'drik) Phrenic (XPH, SRD) Incarnate Construct (Savage Species) Warforged (Eberron Campaign Setting) has +6 Int with no LA.

Catch
2010-07-11, 10:57 PM
Grey Elf is usually the standard, since it qualifies one for Elven Generalist Wizard and Elven Spell Lore.

aje8
2010-07-11, 10:59 PM
Primordial (Secrets of Xen'drik) Phrenic (XPH, SRD) Incarnate Construct (Savage Species) Warforged (Eberron Campaign Setting) has +6 Int with no LA.
Yes.... but no sane DM allows the negative level adjustment that entails..... cheesy.

Gray Elf is pretty much the old stand-by. But.... Lesser Tiefling is alot better for a caster-type build IMO, +2 Dex +2 Int, -2 Charisma? Sign me up.

zenanarchist
2010-07-11, 10:59 PM
All these are great, this one: Warforged (Eberron Campaign Setting) has +6 Int with no LA.

Interested me the most.

How leniant are DM's with warforged?

Also, warforged would be AWESOME for my In-Betweener. It'd be a giant metal walking mobile laser platform *drools*.

What penalties does it take? Can anyone link?

Also, cookie for the first person who gets me a major into boost, no LA and flight. :smallwink:

EDIT: Caster types are irrelevant. While he has a High Int, it's to power his "beams", not spellcasting

BRC
2010-07-11, 11:01 PM
All these are great, this one: Warforged (Eberron Campaign Setting) has +6 Int with no LA.

Interested me the most.

How leniant are DM's with warforged?

Also, warforged would be AWESOME for my In-Betweener. It'd be a giant metal walking mobile laser platform *drools*.

What penalties does it take? Can anyone link?

Also, cookie for the first person who gets me a major into boost, no LA and flight. :smallwink:

EDIT: Caster types are irrelevant. While he has a High Int, it's to power his "beams", not spellcasting
Warforged get +6 Int? I certainly don't remember that. I know they get a Con bonus.

lsfreak
2010-07-11, 11:02 PM
How leniant are DM's with warforged?

That's not the question here. Incarnate Construct strips you for your construct traits for -2LA, which lets you take on powerful +1LA templates. It's definitely one of the cheesier things to do.

I vote lesser tiefling. Gray elf (SRD/MM) and Fire Elf (SRD/UA) are good standbys if you must have high Int, but the Con penalty sucks.

EDIT: Alcohol, even in small quantities, makes typing fast a liability :smalltongue:

zenanarchist
2010-07-11, 11:05 PM
No cheese please!

I want something easily accepted by DM's....the In-betweener will be a push as it is.

Even +2 to +4 would be ideal, doesn't have to be 6-8 lol.

Lyndworm
2010-07-11, 11:07 PM
Yes.... but no sane DM allows the negative level adjustment that entails..... cheesy.
Beyond that, it isn't technically legal, either. Primordial can only be applied to Giants, and Incarnate makes Warforged into Humanoids.


Even +2 to +4 would be ideal, doesn't have to be 6-8 lol.
Bonuses to Int are hard to come by. Usually even +2 races have at least a +1 LA. I don't think +4 Int exists lower than +2 LA.

dgnslyr
2010-07-11, 11:18 PM
That's not the question here. Incarnate Construct strips you for your construct traits for -2LA, which lets you take on powerful +1LA templates. It's definitely one of the cheesier things to do.

I vote lesser tiefling. Gray elf (SRD/MM) and Fire Elf (SRD/UA) are good standbys if you must have high Int, but the Con penalty sucks.

EDIT: Alcohol, even in small quantities, makes typing fast a liability :smalltongue:

IIRC, Arctic template (LA+0) does a good job of negating the Con penalty for elves, at the cost of Cha, though Cha is often slated for dumping anyway. Ironically, it works well with fire elf, negating the Con penalty while dumping Cha even further. There are a few odd elemental bonuses and penalties, though. Congratulations, you are now an elf with an ancestor from the Plane of Fire who has lived in the Arctic for generations.

zenanarchist
2010-07-11, 11:22 PM
IIRC, Arctic template (LA+0) does a good job of negating the Con penalty for elves, at the cost of Cha, though Cha is often slated for dumping anyway. Ironically, it works well with fire elf, negating the Con penalty while dumping Cha even further. There are a few odd elemental bonuses and penalties, though. Congratulations, you are now an elf with an ancestor from the Plane of Fire who has lived in the Arctic for generations.

I loved that....Especially considering the In-Betweener is Light/Dark, this does Heat/cold...

Can you reference these at all? Links? Sounds awesome.

arguskos
2010-07-11, 11:25 PM
...why are you not just taking Grey Elf or Deep Imaskari? They're the most available no-issue races for +2 Int out there. No need to be fancy, just play a Grey Elf and roll on. :smallcool:

zenanarchist
2010-07-11, 11:30 PM
...why are you not just taking Grey Elf or Deep Imaskari? They're the most available no-issue races for +2 Int out there. No need to be fancy, just play a Grey Elf and roll on. :smallcool:

What's a Deep Imaskari argus? Link me up?

Optimystik
2010-07-11, 11:33 PM
What's a Deep Imaskari argus? Link me up?

+2 Int, -2 Dex (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b)

They can also recast an already cast 1st-level spell.

HunterOfJello
2010-07-11, 11:49 PM
Warforged can't recieve the Incarnate template and an Incarnate Construct can't recieve the Primordial template.


The d20 index (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php) lists the following races as having +Int and no LA:

Deep Imaskari, Fire Elf, Gray Elf.

There's also the Sun Elf.

zenanarchist
2010-07-11, 11:54 PM
+2 Int, -2 Dex (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b)

They can also recast an already cast 1st-level spell.

That's nice as hell...but the re-cast a level 1 spell doesn't help me if I don't have spells...Hrrmmm.

Edit: looking more and more like Fire Elf. The +2 dex and Int is nice. The resistance to fire is good too.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-07-11, 11:58 PM
Venerable Kobold taking the Dragonwrought feat at 1st level. Extra points if you're a Desert Kobold.

zenanarchist
2010-07-12, 12:01 AM
Venerable Kobold taking the Dragonwrought feat at 1st level. Extra points if you're a Desert Kobold.

Now this interests me sheerly because of the hype surrounding kobolds. Will taking kobold and dragonwrought kobold get me killed? lol.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-12, 12:01 AM
Any race with age categories can get up to +3 Int, Wis, and Cha in exchange for a -6 to Str, Dex, and Con. Dragonwrought kobolds, of course, can get +3 to their mentals without penalties to their physicals.

You could try a venerable lesser tiefling. If the tiefling's parent (one or the other) was human, he could take the Otherworldly feat to become an outsider again for +0 LA. +5 Int for one feat and -6 to his physical stats

Though if you go necropolitan instead you won't have to worry about that pesky -6 to Con, and various magics can make up for the Dex- and Str-loss.

Mushroom Ninja
2010-07-12, 12:04 AM
Now this interests me sheerly because of the hype surrounding kobolds. Will taking kobold and dragonwrought kobold get me killed? lol.

It all depends on your group. :smallbiggrin:

zenanarchist
2010-07-12, 12:06 AM
Jeez you guys are good. But so far, Fire elf provides benefit for no cost. Also gives me bow prof and search,spot and listen.

Bit vulnerable to water though...but that shouldn't be a problem with some of the shadow/light abilities.

arguskos
2010-07-12, 12:09 AM
Warforged can't recieve the Incarnate template and an Incarnate Construct can't recieve the Primordial template.
You're wrong on both counts here, actually.

Warforged are Constructs with the [Living Construct] subtype, making them quite eligible for Incarnate Construct (redundant? Yes. Legal? Yup.).

Further, assuming that Incarnate Construct has made the subject a Giant, Primordial Giant can be applied to it with no concerns (not even sure how you got there in the first place).

Dusk Eclipse
2010-07-12, 12:44 AM
Arguskos I think that Incarnate construct gives you either Giant or humanoid type depending on your size.... might be wrong, but I need to check savage species to check.

Edit: Yep, incarnate construct makes you a humanoid if you were medium sized before applying the template (large or bigger make you a giant)

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-12, 01:18 AM
Arguskos I think that Incarnate construct gives you either Giant or humanoid type depending on your size.... might be wrong, but I need to check savage species to check.

Edit: Yep, incarnate construct makes you a humanoid if you were medium sized before applying the template (large or bigger make you a giant)UMD a power stone of expansion, then.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-12, 01:20 AM
Beyond that, it isn't technically legal, either. Primordial can only be applied to Giants, and Incarnate makes Warforged into Humanoids.


Bonuses to Int are hard to come by. Usually even +2 races have at least a +1 LA. I don't think +4 Int exists lower than +2 LA.

If the 'Forged is medium when Incarnate finishes, yes, they become humanoid. Now, if that 'Forged became large via a UPD'd Expansion, his type would become Giant.


Warforged can't recieve the Incarnate template and an Incarnate Construct can't recieve the Primordial template.

Are Warforged constructs? If yes, they are subject to the spell "Incarnate Construct." QED, they are valid targets.


Partially swordsage'd.

EDIT: Full stat adjustments with what I listed would be -4 Str +6 Int +6 Cha. If you drop phrenic, you'd get the same thing, except with 2 less Int, 2 less Wis, and 4 less Cha. Such would be less cheesy, too, as Primordial is technically a +0 LA template.

EDIT EDIT: I used Phrenic in my original example as it was 2 LA that would have been removed via Incarnate Construct. It is by no means the strongest option for that (e.g., if you want Con without touching Int, you'd go Lolthtouched and Draconic). Even just Primordial Incarnate Construct Warforged is fine, as I mentioned in the first edit.

Zovc
2010-07-12, 01:23 AM
Gray Elf, Fire Elf, Lesser Tiefling, and I think one of the Genasi has +2 Intelligence, you could try to be a lesser one of those.

Kylarra
2010-07-12, 01:37 AM
Gray Elf, Fire Elf, Lesser Tiefling, and I think one of the Genasi has +2 Intelligence, you could try to be a lesser one of those.
Air and Fire do, fire is probably the better bet, taking only a -2 cha penalty, whereas air gets an additional +2 dex, and takes a wis penalty which the OP doesn't seem to want. Air is breathless, which is a nice though.

Sintanan
2010-07-12, 01:59 AM
Half-Nymph (Crystal Keep (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf)) Incarnate Construct (Savage Species again) Warforged (Eberron) gets you a compulsion-esque at will ability and +4 Int (It's +2 int, +4 cha.. my bad) with LA +0, if I remember right.

Edit: inb4 Warforged != constructs argument: Warforged are Construct (Living Construct) type and subtype as stated in ECS. All the construct-ish traits are tied to their subtype. Incarnate Construct template removes special abilities (composite plating, for example) and changes the type to Humanoid or Giant. Thus an Incarnate Construct Warforged is Humanoid (Living Construct).

Still smells of Gouda, but is possible by the rules. Not to mention you still qualify for Warforged feats so you can get that robot look still (mithril/adamantine body). Or go for a creepy crystal-infused-flesh look with psiforged body.


I remember coming across half-nymph in the template index from Crystal Keep.

WinWin
2010-07-12, 02:21 AM
Hanuman, the humanoid monkeys from Oriental Adventures get a bonus to Intelligence.

Spirit Folk, from the same book also get a bonus.

Both have 0 LA

HunterOfJello
2010-07-12, 03:48 AM
I remember reading on these forums several times that warforged can't recieve the incarnate construct template. However, I looked up subtypes and warforged template information and from all the evidence, it seems I was wrong.

Warforged can be affected by spells that target constructs and can recieve construct templates.

Casting Incarnate Construct on a Warforged would be the kind of thing I would throw a book at a player for, or a warforged would smack a wizard for, but it could be done.

Also, if the Warforged was permanently enlarged to at least the Large size, it seems they could recieve the Giant subtype, and therefore be able to recieve the Primordial template. (Although, it would be interesting to see explained.)

I retract my last post pending further evidence to the contrary.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-12, 03:53 AM
Also, if the Warforged was permanently enlarged to at least the Large size, it seems they could recieve the Giant subtype, and therefore be able to recieve the Primordial template. (Although, it would be interesting to see explained.)

Lots of breeding.

Also, for a prospective 'Forged to become a Giant, they simply must be Large or larger when the spell finishes. So, you've got your target UPD a stone of expansion shortly before whomever is casting the spell does just that.

dgnslyr
2010-07-12, 04:59 PM
That's nice as hell...but the re-cast a level 1 spell doesn't help me if I don't have spells...Hrrmmm.

Edit: looking more and more like Fire Elf. The +2 dex and Int is nice. The resistance to fire is good too.

The template's on crystalkeep.com (that is OK, right?), and Arctic template should be right in Templates. Hrm, now I'm tempted to slap the Arctic template on my Warforged Warblade, so I can crank up my Con up to 18 and dump my Cha to 4.

zenanarchist
2010-07-12, 05:25 PM
The template's on crystalkeep.com (that is OK, right?), and Arctic template should be right in Templates. Hrm, now I'm tempted to slap the Arctic template on my Warforged Warblade, so I can crank up my Con up to 18 and dump my Cha to 4.

I can't seem to find the artic template..... Odd. Everything else seems to be there though.

Guys these suggestions rocked. And were also....very complicated.

If someone could of found me a way to be a warforged with +4 Int and just a +1 LA I'd probably have taken it. There's something extremely appealing about being a mobile laser platform lol.

Otherwise I guess it's Artic Fire elf.

Lyndworm
2010-07-12, 05:49 PM
A Spellwarped Incarnate Construct Warforged has +4 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, +4 Int, -2 Wis, and -2 Cha as well as a bunch of neat goodies for +1 LA.
Spellwarped is from MM3 and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Janni Incarnate Construct Warforged has +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, and -2 Cha, as well as a bunch of SLAs for +1 LA.
Half-Janni is from Sandstorm and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Dragon Incarnate Construct Warforged has +8 Str, +4 Con, +2 Int, and -2 Wis, as well as a breath attack, natural armor, and some other goodies for +1 LA.
Half-Dragon is from MM1 and expanded upon in Races of the Dragon. It can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Gravetouched Ghoul Incarnate Construct Warforged has +2 Str, +4 Dex, no Con score, and +2 Int, as well as some ghoulish goodies and the Undead type for +0 LA.
Gravetouched Ghoul is from Libris Mortis and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Air Elemental Incarnate Construct Warforged has Dex +2, Con +4, and Int +2 as well as some Immunities and SLAs for +1 LA.
Half-Air Elemental as from Manual of the Planes and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Fire Elemental Incarnate Construct Warforged has Dex +4, Con +2, Int + 2, and Wis -2 as well as some Immunities and SLAs for +1 LA.
Half-Fire Elemental is from Manual of the Planes and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Water Elemental Incarnate Construct Warforged has Str +2, Con +2, and Int + 2 as well as some Immunities and SLAs for +1 LA.
Half-Water Elemental is from Manual of the Planes and can be found in Crystalkeep.




I've skipped templates that only appeared in Dragon Magazine.

zenanarchist
2010-07-12, 05:54 PM
A Spellwarped Incarnate Construct Warforged has +4 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, +4 Int, -2 Wis, and -2 Cha as well as a bunch of neat goodies for +1 LA.
Spellwarped is from MM3 and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Janni Incarnate Construct Warforged has +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, and -2 Cha, as well as a bunch of SLAs for +1 LA.
Half-Janni is from Sandstorm and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Dragon Incarnate Construct Warforged has +8 Str, +4 Con, +2 Int, and -2 Wis, as well as a breath attack, natural armor, and some other goodies for +1 LA.
Half-Dragon is from MM1 and expanded upon in Races of the Dragon. It can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Gravetouched Ghoul Incarnate Construct Warforged has +2 Str, +4 Dex, no Con score, and +2 Int, as well as some ghoulish goodies and the Undead type for +0 LA.
Gravetouched Ghoul is from Libris Mortis and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Air Elemental Incarnate Construct Warforged has Dex +2, Con +4, and Int +2 as well as some Immunities and SLAs for +1 LA.
Half-Air Elemental as from Manual of the Planes and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Fire Elemental Incarnate Construct Warforged has Dex +4, Con +2, Int + 2, and Wis -2 as well as some Immunities and SLAs for +1 LA.
Half-Fire Elemental is from Manual of the Planes and can be found in Crystalkeep.


A Half-Water Elemental Incarnate Construct Warforged has Str +2, Con +2, and Int + 2 as well as some Immunities and SLAs for +1 LA.
Half-Water Elemental is from Manual of the Planes and can be found in Crystalkeep.




I've skipped templates that only appeared in Dragon Magazine.

A Spellwarped Incarnate Construct Warforged has +4 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con, +4 Int, -2 Wis, and -2 Cha as well as a bunch of neat goodies for +1 LA.
Spellwarped is from MM3 and can be found in Crystalkeep.

^^ This, this is insane....Though I might have to re-roll my scores to stop that -2 Wisdom hurting so much....

Lynd you know I'm noob...so how do I go about applying this Template/Race to my character. Also what are the "goodies"? :-D

super dark33
2010-07-12, 05:56 PM
put +4 to int but dont do any outer bonuses

zenanarchist
2010-07-12, 06:00 PM
put +4 to int but dont do any outer bonuses

Where I'm from dear sir, that's called cheating :-P

I'd rather roll them fairly, and get them higher via race if I can

Lord Vampyre
2010-07-12, 06:11 PM
If you do decide to go fire or grey elf, you'll qualify for the Elf Paragon class out of Unearthed Arcana. At 3rd lvl you recieve a +2 bonus to intelligence.

I'm not sure if I would take it. It really depends on what kind of character you're trying to make, and why you need the high Int Score.

zenanarchist
2010-07-12, 06:14 PM
If you do decide to go fire or grey elf, you'll qualify for the Elf Paragon class out of Unearthed Arcana. At 3rd lvl you recieve a +2 bonus to intelligence.

I'm not sure if I would take it. It really depends on what kind of character you're trying to make, and why you need the high Int Score.

It's for my In-Betweener (Sig). Zen Combat puts his Int bonus in place of strength and dexterity to attacks, and Wisdom to his AC. So I need an extremely pumped up Intelligence score.

They pretty much power his shadow and light ability plus his Intelligence modifier is DIRECTLY relevant to how many shadow and light points he gets per day.

Lyndworm
2010-07-12, 06:19 PM
Lynd you know I'm noob...so how do I go about applying this Template/Race to my character. Also what are the "goodies"? :-D
It's not part of the OGL, so it's technically copyright infringement to say too much about it. If you go to page 51 (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf), it will give a full list of goodies.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean about the application of the template/race.

dgnslyr
2010-07-12, 06:35 PM
I can't seem to find the artic template..... Odd. Everything else seems to be there though.

Guys these suggestions rocked. And were also....very complicated.

If someone could of found me a way to be a warforged with +4 Int and just a +1 LA I'd probably have taken it. There's something extremely appealing about being a mobile laser platform lol.

Otherwise I guess it's Artic Fire elf.

The Arctic template is under 3.0, not 3.5. That threw me off when I was looking for the Arctic template after someone else came up with that brilliant, synergistic contradiction. Link to the 3.0 stuff here. (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules3.0.php) The Arctic template is right under templates. If you are going for Arctic fire elf, there are some very interesting backstory possibilities. :smallwink:

Lyndworm
2010-07-12, 06:37 PM
The Arctic template is under 3.0, not 3.5. That threw me off when I was looking for the Arctic template after someone else came up with that brilliant, synergistic contradiction. Link to the 3.0 stuff here. (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules3.0.php) The Arctic template is right under templates. If you are going for Arctic fire elf, there are some very interesting backstory possibilities. :smallwink:
I see a people filled with an inner fire, not bothered by the cold. Their ancestors settled in the coldest regions of the planet to cool their hearts and stop the endless wars that plagued their kind... :smallbiggrin:

zenanarchist
2010-07-12, 06:41 PM
I see a people filled with an inner fire, not bothered by the cold. Their ancestors settled in the coldest regions of the planet to cool their hearts and stop the endless wars that plagued their kind... :smallbiggrin:

Nope, sorry Lynd, you got me addicted to the awesome of Spellwarped Incarnate construct warforged. Addicted now.

Especially with that Spell Resistance thing, and the bonuses!!!!