Void Disciple Base Class [3.5 PEACH]

[jiriku]

VOID DISCIPLE

"Insofar as one denies what is, one is possessed by what is not, the compulsions, the fantasies, the terrors that flock to fill the void."

-- Ursula K. LeGuin



http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab24/gallopinggiraffes/void_disciple/6Ash.jpg


This is a 20-level class loosely based on the Void Disciple prestige class originally presented in Complete Divine (pp.72-74). The void disciple is skilled with manipulating elemental void, and can perceive the unseen, manipulate the ki of individual for their benefit or detriment, rearrange time and space, or even tamper with fate itself. The void disciple is the perfect class for strategic players who like to study their opponents and use that knowledge to construct the perfect plan. Because the void disciple's offensive powers are limited, it's a better fit for players who prefer to take on a supporting role in combat.

1.0 Original version.
1.01 Added a list of referenced sources.
1.02 Added several paragraphs of additional description to the Sense Void feature, defining more precisely how it works and what it can and cannot do.
1.1 Made several updates to the spell list, pruning less useful spells and adding some more useful ones.
1.2 Added the Boundless Sight feature to provide a supernatural sense.
1.3 Added Advanced Learning to increase the flexibility of the spell list.
1.31 Added restrictions on Subtlety of Void to make it clear that the virtual feats don't interact with prerequisites or metamagic feats.
1.4 Spread the progression of Subtley of Void out over 12 levels instead of 4.
1.5 Removed the Elemental Lore feature, which didn't see use in actual gameplay. Sacred and profane bonuses from [void] spells are now converted to competence bonuses, instead of insight bonuses.
1.6 Removed the Void Strike and Void Suppression features, converting them into spells. Greatly simplified Subtlety of Void. Replaced Void Use and Depth of the Void with No-Thought, which now explicitly copies the action point system. Void points are now tracked as a column on the class table. Made minor edits to Altering the Course, Moment of Clarity, and Self/No Self. Eliminated Advanced Learning.
1.61 Updated tables, made some minor text corrections.
2.0 Major revision that recasts the void disciple as a user of mysteries rather than a caster of arcane spells. The void disciple loses all spellcasting, gains a menu of mysteries and a mystery-casting mechanic, and sees its void use mechanic somewhat expanded. Overall, I feel this format better captures the proper style and feel for a void disciple. For players who preferred the original void disciple as an arcane caster, it is still available (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17558914&postcount=50).
2.01 Added the write-up for the bonus feat class feature, which was accidentally omitted during the relaunch.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Void disciples have the following game statistics.


Abilities: Intelligence and Wisdom are the most important abilities for a void disciple, as they determines how powerful a mystery she can cast and how hard those mysteries are to resist. Wisdom improves a void disciple's Armor Class, and void disciples who use rays frequently will appreciate a high Dexterity. A void disciple also benefits from a high Constitution score much as a sorcerer or wizard would. A void disciple who focuses on social interaction may rely on Charisma to support key skills, but with a little forethought, her class features and mysteries can more than compensate for low skill bonuses.


Alignment: Any Neutral. Void disciples must maintain some level of detachment from the affairs of the world in order to focus on the infinite.


Hit Die: d6


LevelBase AttackFortRefWillSpecialVoid PointsFundamentalsMysteries

1st+0+2+2+2Empty mind, ishiken-do, void use231

2nd+1+3+3+3Bonus feat; see text232

3rd+1+3+3+3Boundless sight233

4th+2+4+4+4Ring of the void344

5th+2+4+4+4Supernatural mystery345

6th+3+5+5+5Sense void 2/day (physical senses)346

7th+3+5+5+5447

8th+4+6+6+6Ring of the void458

9th+4+6+6+6459

10th+5+7+7+7Sense void 4/day (magical senses)5510

11th+5+7+7+7Self/no self 5511

12th+6/+1+8+8+8Ring of the void6612

13th+6/+1+8+8+8 6613

14th+7/+2+9+9+9Sense void 6/day (empathic senses) 7614

15th+7/+2+9+9+97615

16th+8/+3+10+10+10Ring of the void8716

17th+8/+3+10+10+10 8717

18th+9/+4+11+11+11Sense void 8/day (mental senses)9718

19th+9/+4+11+11+11 9719

20th+10/+5+12+12+12Ring of the void10820


CLASS SKILLS (4 + Int mod per level, x4 at 1st level)
A void disciple's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).




"Know that what is born
Must necessarily die.

Think of what form you had before you were born,
And … what appearance you will take
long after you have died.

Your myriad thoughts will turn to cold ashes,
Your true Nature will stand alone.

Return all to the Void.…"

-- Hung Ying-Ming, The Roots of Wisdom - Saikontan


CLASS FEATURES
Your mysteries and class features make you ill-suited for solo roles, but you can be a valuable contributor to a team. You are best suited to tasks that involve negotiating with others or gathering information through magic. You are also quite proficient at debuffing foes and enhancing your allies. At higher levels, you can reliably counter enemy spellcasters or even unmake your enemies completely, unraveling their essence.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The void disciple gains proficiency with all simple weapons. She gains no proficiency with armor or shields.


Empty Mind (Ex): Through kata and meditation, you have learned to clear your mind of fear, desire, and regret, that you may act free from worldly worries. Add your Wisdom bonus to your Armor Class. You lose this bonus whenever you are helpless or immobilized, when you are wearing armor or using a shield, or when you are carrying a medium or heavy load.

Ishiken-Do (Su): As a void disciple, you begin practicing ishiken-do, or “the way of the void”. You may use your Wisdom instead of your Charisma when determining save DCs for any spell-like or supernatural abilities you possess, such as your mysteries. As part of your training, you begin to learn basic void magic. These powers, known as fundamentals, function as at-will supernatural abilities. Activating a fundamental requires a standard action unless otherwise noted. The save DC of any fundamental is equal to 10 + ½ your hit dice + your Wisdom modifier.

Mysteries and Paths: A void disciple invokes mystical secrets known as mysteries (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?353505-Very-Mysterious-A-compilation-of-mysteries), spell-like abilities which are drawn from the void disciple mystery list. Although you are not a spellcaster, you have a caster level for using mysteries equal to your void disciple level, and you suffer an arcane spell failure chance if you attempt to invoke mysteries while wearing armor.


The four grades of mysteries are fundamentals, or 0th-level mysteries, apprentice mysteries of 1st to 3rd level, initiate mysteries of 4th to 6th level, and master mysteries of 7th to 9th level. Within each of the latter three grades, mysteries are organized into paths of three thematically connected mysteries, one of each level.

Your collection of mysteries known, together with your void disciple bonus feats (if you have any), is referred to as your dharma. You begin play with a single dharma containing three fundamentals and one apprentice mystery. As you advance in level, you will acquire the ability to assume different dharmas, and learn additional mysteries and bonus feats which you will add to each of your dharmas. Essentially, each dharma is a container which grants you a completely different set of bonus feats and mysteries known, and you can choose each day which container you will access.

Within each dharma you know, you can learn a number of fundamentals as shown on the table above, and may select whichever fundamentals you wish. You can learn a number of higher-level mysteries equal to your void disciple level, but you can only add a mystery of a given level to a dharma that already contains at least two mysteries of the previous level. If you learn all three mysteries in a given path, you are said to have “mastered” that path, and receive special benefits (see below). To learn a mystery, you must have an Intelligence score of 10 + the mystery's level.

Upon reaching 3rd level, and at every void disciple level after that, you can replace a mystery (within a single dharma) that is at least two levels lower than the highest-level mystery you know, choosing a different mystery of the same level. This may cause you to gain or lose a bonus feat within that dharma. You may swap only a single mystery at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the mystery at the same time that you gains new mysteries known for the level.

You can invoke fundamental mysteries at will. You can invoke other mysteries once each per day or twice per day if they are not in the highest grade of mysteries you know. You gain an additional use per day of any mystery in a path that you have mastered. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mystery is 10 + the mystery's level + your Wisdom modifier (but see Supernatural Mystery, below). You can learn a mystery more than once. Each time you do, you gain another set of daily uses of that mystery, and its save DC increases by +1. Although you do not prepare spells, you must meditate for 15 minutes each day to regain your use of mysteries just as a sorcerer or bard must meditate to regain use of spell slots. At this time, you also recovery any spent void points and choose which dharma you will assume, which determines which mysteries and bonus feats you can access for the next day.

Void Use (Ex): Your conscious mastery of the Void allows you to perform feats that others find inexplicable. You gain a number of void points as shown on the table above, which can be spent just like action points. However, void points are not action points, and if your game also uses action points, you must keep track of your void points and action points separately.


Each day, when you choose your dharma and ready your mysteries for the day, you also regain all of your spent void points (up to your normal maximum).

Boundless Sight (Su): Attuning herself to the void, a void disciple of 2nd level or higher perceives the elemental void in all living things. She gains the Lifesense feat (LM 28), ignoring prerequisites. If the void disciple herself is a living creature (which is usually the case), she also illuminates the surrounding area to her own sight. Although others cannot see this illumination (unless they have the Lifesense feat, naturally), she can always "see" as if she was casting bright illumination in a 60-foot radius if she is a Medium or smaller creature (the radius of the illumination doubles for each size category she is larger than Medium, as normal for the Lifesense feat). Boundless Sight is a mental sense, not a sight-based sense, and does not interact with other sight-based traits the void disciple may have, such as low-light vision or light sensitivity. It can be used even while blinded.


In addition to the benefits above, the void disciple can perceive undead, pseudonatural creatures, and outsiders native to the Far Realm if they are within the radius of illumination provided by a living creature. Such creatures appear as blots of darkness that are not illuminated within her lifesight; although she can pinpoint their square, they have total concealment from the void disciple unless she has another means of perceiving them (such as through normal vision, for example).

Boundless Sight is of no use in locating or observing constructs.

Bonus Feats: Beginning at 2nd level, you add bonus [void] feats to your dharma equal to half the total number of paths in the dharma (to a maximum of one bonus feat per two class levels). Whenever you assume the dharma, you gain access to its bonus feats. When a dharma becomes inactive (such as whenever you assume a different one), you lose access to the bonus feats it contains.


Your void disciple bonus feats are temporary feats. You can’t use them to meet prerequisites for any permanent benefit, such as prestige classes or a permanent feat gained from another source. However, you can use a void disciple bonus feat to meet the prerequisites of other temporary feats, such as other void disciple bonus feats, fighter bonus feats, or the feat granted by the heroics spell.

Ring of the Void (Ex): Disciplining herself to his study, the void disciple pursues understanding of the ring of the void, a teaching that counsels one to set aside wants, desires, and the sense of self. By so doing, the disciple gains the power to choose her own fate. Upon reaching 4th level, you gain a second dharma, complete with its own set of mysteries and bonus feats known. During your daily 15-minute meditation, you must choose which dharma you will assume. You gain access to that dharma’s mysteries and bonus feats, and you lose access to the mysteries, and bonus feats of your inactive dharmas. You also lose any benefits the other dharmas would have provided, including path mastery bonuses.


You gain an additional dharma at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level. No matter how many dharmas you have, only one can be active at a given time.

Supernatural Mystery (Ex): Upon reaching 5th level, you learn to invoke mysteries from any path you have mastered as supernatural abilities rather than spell-like abilities. Your supernatural mysteries have a save DC of 10 + ½ your hit dice + your Wisdom modifier.

Sense Void (Su): At 6th level, a void disciple learns to reach out with her mind and sense the world around her, exploring the unseen layers of reality most people rarely experience. The void disciple enters a coma-like state and projects her consciousness afar, extending her perceptions to observe far-distance places, people, or things. The void disciple determines the maximum distance she can sense by making a Spellcraft check, with the DC determined using the table below.




DistanceDC
Line of sight
5
Up to 1 mile
15
Up to 10 miles
25
Up to 100 miles
35
Up to 1,000 miles
45


"Line of sight" is always measured from the location of the void disciple's physical body, even if an effect (such as Sense Void itself) is currently enabling her to view areas that are not in her direct line of sight. The void disciple may not sense across planar boundaries.

Sense Void works much like the clairaudience/clairvoyance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clairaudienceClairvoyance.htm) spell, although it creates a point of perspective instead of a magical sensor. This perspective is not an object and cannot be observed. When sensing, the void disciple places her perspective at a specified location, which must be within range and must be known or obvious to her (although it need not be extremely familiar), or must be adjacent to an object or individual which is known or obvious to her (so, for example, the void disciple could observe "the room on the other side of this door", "the governor of this city", or "my missing house keys", but could not observe "my most dangerous enemy" or "the nearest large treasure"). Once she has selected the locale, she can rotate her perspective in all directions to view the area as desired.

Repositioning the perspective requires a standard action. The void disciple can reposition her perspective as often as she likes, but the maximum distance she can sense is still constrained by her original Spellcraft check. If her attempt to position or reposition her perspective is unsuccessful for any reason (e.g. the target has been warded against divination, has been polymorphed into a different form, or no longer exists) then her perspective does not move and she is aware that the attempt failed (although she does not learn why). She can try to move her perspective again with her next standard action.

A void disciple can activate Sense Void as a standard action, twice per day. She may sense for as long as she wishes, but her body is unconscious and helpless until she dismisses the ability. Each level of sensory detail requires both a minimum void disciple level and a minimum number of ranks in the Spellcraft skill to qualify. If the void disciple does not have at least 9 ranks in Spellcraft, she does not gain Sense Void until she acquires the needed ranks.

Sense Void is a divination (scrying) effect and has the [void] descriptor. It interacts normally with effects that prevent, detect, or fool supernatural divination (scrying) effects. You cannot cast spells or invoke mysteries while Sense Void is active, except as permitted below.


At 6th level, a void disciple with at least 9 ranks in Spellcraft can perceive with her physical senses: The void disciple may use her normal senses (sight, hearing, touch, taste, smell) to observe whatever area, person, or thing she directs her attention to. She perceives to the normal limit of her senses as if she were standing where her perspective is located. Tactile and thermal senses are applicable for anything within reach of her perspective. Magically or supernaturally enhanced senses do not function through Sense Void. Local environmental conditions may limit her senses (for example, if the perspective is inside a sealed crate and the void disciple does not have darkvision as an extraordinary ability, then she can't see).

At 10th level, the void disciple gains two additional uses per day of Sense Void, and if she has at least 13 ranks in Spellcraft, she can extend magical senses: in addition to the senses above, the void disciple can use detect magic and know greatest enemy as spell-like abilities at will. Using magical senses is difficult; reduce the void disciple's Spellcraft check result by 10 when determining the maximum distance at which she can utilize magical senses (e.g. with a check result of 15, a void disciple could sense with physical senses to a range of one mile and with magical senses within her line of sight).

At 14th level, the void disciple gains two additional uses per day of Sense Void, and if she has at least 17 ranks in Spellcraft , she can exercise empathic senses: in addition to the senses above, the void disciple can use discern lies, know opponent, and know vulnerabilities as spell-like abilities at will, and can read emotional states, gaining a +10 circumstance bonus on Sense Motive checks. Using empathic senses is extremely challenging; reduce the void disciple's Spellcraft check result by 20 when determining the maximum distance at which she can utilize empathic senses (e.g. with a check result of 25, a void disciple could sense with physical senses to a range of 10 miles, with magical senses to a range of one mile, and with empathic senses within her line of sight).

At 18th level, the void disciple gains two additional uses per day of Sense Void, and if she has at least 21 ranks in Spellcraft, she can exert mental senses: in addition to the senses above, the void disciple can use detect thoughts and probe thoughts as spell-like abilities at will. Using mental senses requires tremendous discipline; reduce the void disciple's Spellcraft check result by 30 when determining the maximum distance at which she can utilize mental senses (e.g. with a check result of 35, a void disciple could sense with physical senses to a range of 100 miles, with magical senses to a range of 10 miles, with empathic senses to a range of one mile, and with mental senses within her line of sight).



Self/No Self: Upon reaching 11th level, a void disciple can meditate for 5 minutes to regain all spent void points. This ability can be used once per day. You may not spend void points or action points to gain additional daily uses of this ability.



http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab24/gallopinggiraffes/void_disciple/omniscientmage.png



“What terrible fear causes Man to address the Void as Thou?”


-- Edna St. Vincent Millay


FUNDAMENTALS

Arcane Familiarity: Learn aura and duration of magical effects on your person.
Mystic Reflections: As the spell detect magic.
Olden Tales: Gain bonus on Knowledge checks
Reach through the void: Remotely manipulate light objects nearby.
Read the essence: Gain impressions from an object.
Touch the emptiness: Your touch makes target [dazed] for one round.
Witness the untold: While delaying, immediately ready an action and act.

APPRENTICE PATH MYSTERIES

Boundless Sight
1 Detect Life: Detect nearby sources of life.
2 Darkened Lore: Gain a quick flash of insight.
3 Eight Directions Awareness: Sense living or concealed things nearby.

One with All
1 See Through Lies: Assess capabilities of opponent.
2 Echoes in the Void: As the detect thoughts spell.
3 Pry the Truth: Pry the truth out of the living or the dead.

One with Nothing
1 Drain Awareness: Steal one target's awareness of its surroundings.
2 Living Ghost: Erase recent memories of yourself from one creature’s mind.
3 Without a Trace: Disappear even from magical sight.

There is no Mind
1 Void’s Caress: Temporarily remove one condition.
2 Moment of Clarity: Gain a skill or feat for one minute.
3 Kharmic Intent: Share your void points with an ally.

The Way of the Void
1 Drawing the Void: Gain one void point.
2 Contemplate the Void: Spend void points more effectively.
3 Altering the Course: Spend any number of void points on a single roll.

Touch of the Void
1 Life Fades: Deal [nonlethal] damage and cause [fatigue].
2 Flesh Fails: Deal minor ability damage.
3 Void Strike: Inflict 1d4 negative levels.

INITIATE PATH MYSTERIES

Font of Emptiness
4 There/Not There: Avoid detection by detect spells and [scrying] effects.
5 Unfettered Soul: Spend more than one void point per round plus gain one free void point per round.
6 Eyes of the Void Dragon: As the eyes of the oracle spell.

Glimpse of the Void
4 Drink of Your Essence: As see through lies, but multiple targets.
5 Divine the Future: Ask one question about what fate has in store.
6 Question the Void Dragon: void dragon answers one yes-no question.

Secrets in the Void
4 Forgotten Secret: Render one target immune to [divination] or make one fact harder to discover.
5 Haunting Secrets: Foes are [confused] or [shaken] with terrible secrets as your mind fortifies itself. When the mystery fades, one final secret is left for you.
6 Unearth Secrets: Learn the answer to one question about an object, question, or person you are familiar with.

There is no Self
4 Balance of the Elements: Temporarily remove negative conditions.
5 Spiritual Presence: Ally gains ability score bonus while you concentrate, and you can spend void to improve ally’s actions.
6 Void Release: Gain a quick flash of insight.

Tug Upon the Weave
4 Shadows Fade: As the spell dispel magic.
5 Unravel Dweomer: As the spell break enchantment.
6 Shadows Fade, Greater: As the spell greater dispel magic.

Turn Fate’s Wheel
4 Essence of the Void: Target is [paralyzed] while you concentrate.
5 Void Suppression: Victim must use lowest ability modifier in place of higher, cannot spend void points.
6 Unbound Essence: Gain a quick flash of insight.

Whispers of the Void
4 Ebon Premonition: Predict whether you will accomplish your goal.
5 Answers Unbidden: When next you fail at a task, the elements grant unexpected aid.
6 Spun of Myth: Recover old legends from the void.


MASTER PATH MYSTERIES

Breath of the Void
7 Life Fades, Greater: As the mystery life fades, but more potent and affecting more subjects.
8 Flesh Fails, Greater: As the mystery flesh fails, but more potent and affecting more subjects.
9 Ephemeral Storm: Targets must save or die, success results in 5d6 damage.

Embrace of No-Mind
7 Touch the Void Dragon: Gain an enhancement to your ability scores according to the dominant element in the area.
8 Clarity of the Void: Gain competence bonus to any roll equal to twice your void total.
9 Rise from the Ashes: Remove a variety of negative conditions.

Gaze Upon Emptiness
7 Truth Revealed: As the spell true seeing, with additional, but possibly misleading, information.
8 Far Sight: As the spell greater scrying, in conjunction with the mystery truth revealed.
9 Reflections of Things to Come: Gain limited insight into the future.

Penumbral Master
7 Umbral Explosion: Use multiple mysteries simultaneously.
8 Dark Transfiguration: Exchange daily uses of your mysteries.
9 Shadow Absorption: Absorb spells and mysteries and harness their power.

There is no Truth
7 Maddening Truth: Impart a bit of the truth to all nearby, ruining their psyche and possibly driving them insane.
8 Truth Beyond Truth: control the threads of fate, protecting yourself but with grave consequences.
9 Absolute Truth: impart absolute truth to all who are nearby, killing or otherwise harming them.

There is no World
7 Thought of Oblivion: Destroy one item or construct.
8 Unmake the World: Destroy target creature and disintegrate the ashes.
9 Divide the Soul: You exist in two places at once.

Unravel the Weave
7 Draw Closed the Veil: As the spell dismissal, but affected creature is barred from dimensional travel.
8 Severed from the Stream: Spellcasters must succeed at a caster level check to use magic near you.
9Visage of the Void: You gain absolute immunity to magical detection.


Extra Void Points [General]
Your pool of void points is larger than normal.
Prerequisites: Void Use class feature
Benefit: The size of your pool of void points increases by 2.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Its effects stack. You may not spend void points or action points to gain temporary access to this feat.

FAVORED MYSTERY [Shadow, Void]
The mystery you choose becomes easier to cast.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast mysteries.
Benefit: Choose a mystery you know. You cast that mystery as a supernatural ability instead of a spell-like ability. If you choose a mystery that you can already cast as a supernatural ability, or if you later gain the ability to cast that mystery as a supernatural ability, you gain an extra use of that mystery per day.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. When you take the feat again, you can choose to affect the same mystery or a different one.

[periscope69]

Looks awesome, nice artwork, and has a feel of someone who is "all and nothing" (which is kind of what I think of when I think of void).

However I do have some critiques:

1) Please either type out the name of whatever book you get a feat out of, include a list of the books you used, or type out a feat that way people know where to look (what book is RCS?).

2) Same with the spells (you don't have to type it out after every on of them, just put a * next to them and assign it to a book title).

3) I'm not sure about this invisible spell feat. I've never heard of it and I don't know what book CS is. Assuming that it does what it sounds like it does (making all visible effects of a spell invisible but leaving everything else [sounds, smells, tremors, etc] untouched) it might be a bit much right out of the gate. I'd suggest moving it to at least 5th level, maybe even 10th or 15th.

4) When using Void Sense, can you "sense" everything in an area if that's what your focused on?

For example: Could you see, hear, etc. EVERYTHING that is going on within a building that is within range (lets assume it's within the 1 mile range) since you can sense and area?

If that's the case then it could be too powerful. I don't think that was your intent but be aware that anyone's work can be twisted by Min/Maxers.

[hamishspence]

I'm guessing RCS is Rokugan Campaign Setting. Invisible spell is from Cityscape.

Might want to spell it out though- CS can easily be mistaken for Complete Scoundrel.

[jiriku]

1 & 2) Good point. This class draws on some especially obscure sourcebooks too, so it's useful to have a key to the acronyms. I've added a spoilered section at the top of the class listing sources and acronyms.


3) Invisible spell does exactly what you think it does. However, it's a +0 metamagic feat, so the only thing I'm letting the player get out of is the prerequisite, which is merely to have one other metamagic feat. Further, it's always on, and so less flexible, and the PC doesn't actually gain the feat, merely its benefits, so she can't, for example, use it on spells gained from another class or use it to qualify for other feats requiring one other metamagic feat.

Moreover, the feat is less effective on the void disciple than on other casters, because most of a void disciple's spells don't have a visible effect anyhow. Its chief impact is to hide the rays created by the various ray spells. In that regard, it's mostly a cosmetic change intended to help me reflavor a lot of the spells whose effects are appropriate for void magic, but whose flavor or appearance didn't mesh.

However, I'm open to the idea that there may be some loopholes for abuse I haven't considered. Are there any spells on the spell list that you think are made grossly more powerful by having invisible effects?


4) Sense Void lets you perceive as if you were standing there. However "there" is wherever want it to be within range, provided you know where "there" is, and you can reposition your "self" as often as you want to while sensing. Sense Void is the flagship power of the Void Disciple and the reason that it's an extremely powerful class despite having a very limited spell list. I've actually nerfed it pretty hard by increasing the skill check DCs dramatically (on the original class, the highest DC was 25). However, I did allow the use of some additional spells at higher levels, to tie the void disciple spell list into the ability more closely. Do you think it's gone too far? Should I place some limits on sensing or establish some game elements like warding spells that will prevent sensing?

Perhaps I could make each progressive level of sensation add +10 to the skill check DC, so that a DC 45 check will get you physical senses out to 1000 miles, or magic senses to 100 miles, or empathic senses to 10 miles, or mental senses to 1 mile? This would mean that mind-reading the BBEG from 101 - 1,000 miles away is a DC 75 check, which, while not impossible for a high-level void disciple, while require the expenditure of more resources in the form of void points, spells, or skill-boosting items.


Edit: And more critiques, please! That's why I've posted it here. I've made quite a few classes over the past few months, and every single one of them has been greatly improved through feedback from the community. Not one was perfect when first posted, so I'm expecting and hoping for feedback on how to improve the void disciple.

[Sereg]

You could have entered this into the current base class challenge. Oh well. It's interesting, but I have neither the Rokugan Campaign Setting nor the Spell Compendium, so I am less qualified than normal to critique this.

[nonsi]

Didn't check right now if you changed things in the OP, but the first things I'd expect to see in the features of such a concept class are:
- Invisibility
- Init boost
- Blind Sense
- Guarded Mind (mask one's alignment, Scry resistance/immunity, etc)
- Blind Sight

[periscope69]

About Void Sense:

It's not the DC, it's the fact that it seems vague. I mean for instance in our earlier example lets say you want to look into the central room on the 5th floor. You have never been inside this building, nor do you scry on anyone in particular.

Do you perceive it like the Scry spell (an actual sensor is there and your perceiving it like most people do [they'd have to turn around to see what's going on behind them as if they were standing there])? Can the point from which you perceive move? Do you see out to line of sight or only a specific set range (like within 10 feet of where your perceiving)?

Using the example above can the point go through doors, walls, and floors? Can you essentially "explore" the entire complex without having to go in there? Can the point be seen (like a scrying sensor)? Can someone detect it and realize someones looking ( great if your character is a voyeur :smallwink: )?

If your looking into an area like an auditorium, do you first show up in the center of the area, by the entrance, or do you have to specifically state where it pops up (difficult if you've never been inside)?

Now onto other things:

One thing I've noticed about these elemental classes is that most seem to give increased sensory capabilities (things like blind sense, tremor sense, dark vision, and low light vision). The Void Disciple doesn't.

I mean Sense Void would seem to fill that except that for the fact that you go into a coma like state and are helpless. So I'd give them blindsight or dark vision since without some way of perceiving in the dark, Sense Void takes a hit to it's usefulness (I'm assuming spells that give you stuff like dark vision fall under "magical senses" and therefore have to wait a bit before being able to be used reliably).

If you wanted to give it something original, you could take a look in the Expanded Psionics Handbook has a power that lets you sort of "feel" everything within a certain area around you. You could write it up like this:

Sight of the Void/Void Sight (I'm not good with names :smallfrown: ):

Your study of nothingness has progressed to your senses. You can feel the void out to such and such range (I'd start at like 5 or 10 feet and go from there). This lets you tell when there is "something" and "nothing" in a particular space. This negates many of the penalties of blindness and darkness. You suffer no reduction in speed, and you can tell if a creature is within a space. You can only tell the shape of objects while using this and cannot perceive fine features.

Think of it like looking at the world if someone drew it with an etch a sketch, outlines and most details can be perceived, but not things like writing and color. However things such as painting on the wall couldn't be perceived, and writing or carving would only be perceived if it was either carved in deep or raised high.

Heck you could have it so that they'd have to "turn off" their sight to be able to use this (inviting the void into their eyes or something like that) and can be used at will.

On Invisible Spell:

The only one of the top of my head would be Sphere of Ultimate Destruction since it requires people to see it to have a chance against it and since it stays for a couple rounds (I'd think that it would have some sort of effect on the environment).

[jiriku]

Didn't check right now if you changed things in the OP, but the first things I'd expect to see in the features of such a concept class are:
- Invisibility
- Init boost
- Blind Sense
- Guarded Mind (mask one's alignment, Scry resistance/immunity, etc)
- Blind Sight


Invisibility is an air power, and belongs to the storm lord. However, not being there is definitely a void power, which is why blink is on the list. I'd reluctantly taken out etherealness, swift etherealness, and ethereal jaunt when paring down the spell list. Since you also agree that we need MOAR ELUSIVENESS I'll make some hard decisions and find room to put those spells back in.
Why does a void disciple have quick reflexes?
Blindsense/blindsight is something I'm hearing from both of you. I'm not sure how to make it fit yet, but I'll find a way.
Guarded mind: another good point. I had also scrubbed several spells that support this theme when trimming the spell list. I'll edit room for them.


About Void Sense...

Do you perceive like the Scry spell?
Can the point from which you perceive move?
Do you see out to line of sight?
Can the point go through doors, walls, and floors?
Can you essentially "explore" an entire complex without having to go in?
Can the point be seen (like a scrying sensor)?
Can someone detect it and realize someone's looking?
Do you have to specifically state where it pops up?

In order, yes, yes as a standard action, yes, yes as a standard action, yes, no, no not without magic, and yes but if you get it wrong you can reposition as a standard action. I've added several paragraphs of additional detail to the ability to more clearly define how it works and what it can and cannot do, and how it can be defended against.

Make no mistake, however. Sense Void is really really strong - with it the void disciple is hands-down the best diviner in the game.


...stuff about how void disciple needs MOAR ESP...

Without some way of perceiving in the dark, Sense Void takes a hit to its usefulness (I'm assuming spells that give you stuff like dark vision fall under "magical senses" and therefore have to wait a bit before being able to be used reliably).

Hehehe ok, you and nonsi both want MOAR ESP! I'll add more.

I'll hack into that psionic power and see what I can think of. I'm also considering creating a feat that would expend a use of Sense Void for defensive combat benefits, something that would be of interest to a void disciple gish (and yes, there's an elemental warrior PrC coming soon for these classes :smallsmile:).

Of interest: darkvision and similar spells specifically will not work with Sense Void, ever. There are some limits, after all. :smallbiggrin:


On Invisible Spell:

The only one of the top of my head would be Sphere of Ultimate Destruction since it requires people to see it to have a chance against it and since it stays for a couple rounds (I'd think that it would have some sort of effect on the environment).

I can live with that.

[Tinydwarfman]

Looks very nice. Just 2 comments.
1: Are you sure it should be Int based? It seems like it should fit Wis much more.
2: Spell list is kind of weird and limited. Not very many useful spells, especially at low levels. I would add some kind of Advanced Learning, since the void encompasses everything right? I mean seriously, after looking at that picture of the WoWlock, who doesn't want to shoot void lightning?

All in all, I like this the best of your elemental casters. Nice work.

[periscope69]

Blindsense/blindsight is something I'm hearing from both of you. I'm not sure how to make it fit yet, but I'll find a way.


Hehehe ok, you and nonsi both want MOAR ESP! I'll add more.

I'll hack into that psionic power and see what I can think of. I'm also considering creating a feat that would expend a use of Sense Void for defensive combat benefits, something that would be of interest to a void disciple gish (and yes, there's an elemental warrior PrC coming soon for these classes :smallsmile:).

Of interest: darkvision and similar spells specifically will not work with Sense Void, ever. There are some limits, after all. :smallbiggrin

You could just give him darkvision or Blindsight and say it's from either mastery of the void or exposure to the void (with the Blindsight, don't run it off a specific sense, just that they "Know" where they are and where everything else is in the range, have it be supernatural and therefore subject to AMF's).

There was a feat I saw that made it so that every time a specific opponent missed you, they took a penalty to attack roles (to a max of -5) but if they did hit you it reset. It also ended with the encounter (if you fought them again later they wouldn't start off with a penalty).

You could have the defense feat run like that but add to the penalty with Void uses (to a max of -10).

[jiriku]

Added: additional swift etherealness, ethereal jaunt, nondetection, and the spell immunity series. Dropped several spells that were extremely specialized and didn't quite suite the theme.

Added: Boundless Sight, a form of supernatural awareness that borrows the mechanics of the Lifesense feat.

Added: Advanced Learning, with some extra tweaks to ensure that the acquired spells acquire a void flavoring and are compatible with void disciple class features.


Opinions?



Traditionally, Wisdom as a casting attribute is reserved for divine casters. Since the shugenja already solidly fills the role of a divine elemental caster, I'm trying to avoid that particular piece of intellectual real estate.

[periscope69]

Humm, I completely forgot about lifesense, fits very nicely good job! :smallcool:

Have to review everything else. Keep up the good work.

[Agent_0042]

Traditionally, Wisdom as a casting attribute is reserved for divine casters. Since the shugenja already solidly fills the role of a divine elemental caster, I'm trying to avoid that particular piece of intellectual real estate.

So what if I were to tell you that the Shugenja runs off of Charisma? :smallwink:

[jiriku]

Then I would cry a little, sigh deeply, and add rules for a Wisdom-based variant to the section on class variants I've already set aside for this purpose. :smallbiggrin:

It's coming right up once I finish my cry.

[Karsh]

Three bonus feats at first level seems like a lot.

I understand that Invisible Spell and Eschew Materials are mostly flavor over anything, but still. 3 feats is a lot.

Free Silent and Still Spell at level 4 is also pretty insane.

You should stipulate that Invisible Spell, Silent Spell, and Still Spell all don't count as metamagic feats. Otherwise, this class becomes a favorite for Arcane Thesis abuse.

[jiriku]

Stipulations have been added.

It does seem like a lot, but my perspective was:

Eschew Materials is literally a feat that replaces a 5gp item. Many DMs ignore material components altogether. This feat is fluffier than Endurance.
In Oriental Adventures Rokugan, Void Use is actually a buy-one, get-one-free feat. Every human is required to take an Ancestor feat, but can instead choose Void Use. If you take Void Use, you get an Ancestor feat with it for free.
Invisible Spell is actually rather good.


Still and Silent are likewise generally non-stellar feats.

[Karsh]

If nothing else, automatic still spells for all spells gives the Void Disciple a better version of the "Armored Mage: All" ability.

Since ASF applies only to spells with somatic components, stilling all your spells lets you wear clockwork armor and dual-wield tower shields without penalty.

And the strength of them is debatable, but you're essentially giving two epic bonus feats (Automatic Still & Silent spell) at 4th level, and then again at 8th and 14th level.

[jiriku]

Hmm, I hadn't considered the avoidance of ASF. The void disciple isn't proficient with armor, and loses the benefit of mage armor and Wis to AC if he wears armor, but a gish character would be rocking it in mountain plate by level 5 if he really wanted to...that's not what I intended. How signficant do you think it is? A fighter 1/void disciple 5 is ready for most gish classes, and could wear plate mail and a heavy shield, gaining +11 AC w/12 Dex. Alternately, a fighter 1/void disciple 5 with mage armor and shield, and a 12 Dex and 12 Wis, would have +10 AC...although only +6 if he has no time to get his shield up.

It's good defense...so is that a strength that makes the void disciple more versatile, or an imbalance that makes it overpowered?

[Karsh]

I think it's a pretty powerful class as it is. Keep in mind that Still Spell is better than Armored Mage, though. You also can use it in grapples, and combined with silent spell, unless you have to use an expensive material component, nobody can identify what spells are being cast. Especially since the ones with visible effects are... well, invisible.

If nothing else, you need to split those abilities up and move them further back. Perhaps at 1st level you get Eschew Materials, at 4th you get Invisible Spell, at 8th you get Still Spell, and at 12th you get Silent Spell or somesuch.

It's just too front-loaded right now.

[jiriku]

Alrighty, slower progression it is then. Spread it out over 12 levels per your recommendation. Any other suggestions, perhaps with the spell list?

[Tinydwarfman]

Higher levels have a nice balance of spells, but low levels, especially 1 and 2, have very few spells that are regularly useful. Low level casters should still be able to contribute effectively in combat.

[jiriku]

Swapped in ray of enfeeblement at 1st level. You think backbiter, ray of enfeeblement, and daze monster (learned at 1st level instead of 2nd) is enough to get by until ray of weakness, shadow spray, and vertigo come on line at 4th level? If not, can you suggest any combat spells that would be thematically appropriate?

[appending_doom]

This is pretty nifty; I'm a big fan of RCS, so I liked seeing this.

One question, though. The Sense Void says you can cast X spell "at will" - is that only while using Sense Void?

[jiriku]

Correct, it's only while using Sense Void, and it doesn't consume any of your spell slots. Really you aren't casting the spell at all, you're just perceiving the Void in your target and deducing their qualities and attributes, but the spellcasting mechanic seems to be the most straightforward method of representing this in the game. Compare to some of the transformational spells in Spell Compendium that let you use a small menu of low-level spells at while while you're transformed.

[Tinydwarfman]

As clarification: The original class let you cast spell while using Sense Void, by RAW. Can you still do that?

(it was one of the reasons that the class was considered either broken or terrible.)

Also, any reason why you can't bestow Epic feats upon yourself or party members?

[jiriku]

My intent was that you could not. I'll add that in explicitly.

As written, you could bestow Epic feats. My first thought was, "you get the feat for one minute, how much harm could it do?" But this is D&D. I'd better sit down and review the epic feats. :smallbiggrin:

[Tinydwarfman]

My intent was that you could not. I'll add that in explicitly.

As written, you could bestow Epic feats. My first thought was, "you get the feat for one minute, how much harm could it do?" But this is D&D. I'd better sit down and review the epic feats. :smallbiggrin:

The only ones that should cause problems are the magic ones of course. :smallyuk: Auto-Quicken for example, would be really bad/good.

[jiriku]

You know, I think I'd be ok with it if the epic feats for casters and noncasters were comparable, but as-is, it just exacerbates an already severe balance problem. I'll restrict the granting of epic feats to epic void disciples.

[Tinydwarfman]

You know, I think I'd be ok with it if the epic feats for casters and noncasters were comparable, but as-is, it just exacerbates an already severe balance problem. I'll restrict the granting of epic feats to epic void disciples.

Nooo, just ban the casting feats! I love giving my melee Dire Charge, or the archer Distant Shot. :smallcool:

But seriously, just fluff it as the Void Disciple not being able to grant magical power or something.

[jiriku]

Ok, the DM must now specifically approve an epic feat for use with Moment of Clarity, and can extend or retract that permission at any time. This pushes the ability (ever so slightly) in the direction of being more story-oriented, and allows the player and DM to work together in deciding what is or is not balanced for the game at a particular point.

[Dead_Jester]

Very nice class, like the other elemental mages, but how about including the effects of void use (or at least a summary of their effect) so that those who don't own the RCS can use the ability (especially considering the fact that the RCS is out of print if i remember, and is one of the harder books to acquire)?

Also, I think void strike should improve/gain more uses over time so it stays useful at higher levels (not that negative levels aren't useful, but when you can only use it once per day and are fighting enemies with 30 hit dices, you start using other things instead). Apart from that, this looks pretty balanced and the fluff is both good and consistent.

[jiriku]

Thanks for the compliments!

Since RCS isn't open game content, I don't think I can post it here even though it is out of print. However, Action Points are similar to Void Points and are part of the SRD, I'll add an adaptation outlining how to use the class with Action Points.

Also, I'll make the Void Strike usable more often by sacrificing spell slots.

[Aran Banks]

Just one thing--not sure if anyone else has talked about it.

Boundless sight has this: "If the void disciple herself is a living creature (which is usually the case), she also illuminates the surrounding area to her own sight."

You can take that in such a way that if you have an elf and light up the area of 60', the elf can see 120' away. So the sight would extend up to 120', but then the elf could see 240' away. That cheese would mean the whole world is lit up in the eyes of the Void Disciple. Not sure if you care or not, and I don't think it'll really have an in-game effect. Just thought you should know.

[jiriku]

I'm not sure I follow, but you may be slightly misinterpreting the meaning. Lifesight makes living things glow in the sight of the character with the Lifesight feat. So when I say:

"If the void disciple herself is a living creature (which is usually the case), she also illuminates the surrounding area to her own sight."

I don't mean she illuminates the surrounding area to the range of her own sight. I mean that she illuminates the surrounding area to her own sight, and not to the sight of others. Functionally, she's the center of a daylight spell that no one can see except for her (and other creatures with the Lifesight feat). An elf void disciple will get more mileage out of this feature than a human. Conversely, it's near-worthless to a dwarf, who can already see clearly in that range thanks to darkvision. But no one gets infinite vision.

[Aran Banks]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

I apologize for the misconception.

[jiriku]

Oh, no worries. In fact, if you can misread it, others can too. Now that I look at it, that whole ability is badly worded and doesn't communicate my intent. I'll change the phrasing to make it easier to understand.

[fil kearney]

Traditionally, Wisdom as a casting attribute is reserved for divine casters. Since the shugenja already solidly fills the role of a divine elemental caster, I'm trying to avoid that particular piece of intellectual real estate.

I've DM'd a void disciple before. that's why this was a Shugenja PrC.


When we take a PrC and convert it to a base class-- we take those double digit abilities and make them available around 1st - 5th level, and then dump a lot of extra stuff on top of it for free so it isn't so empty looking (never mind that the sorcerer is TOTALLY empty aside from all the spontaneous casting goodness of a 2nd tier class).. often those freebies are the prerequisites previously required to earn the PrC to begin with... or gives bonuses for that aspect of choices... the PrC becomes inferior to the new base class.

Furthermore; The VoidD was a PrC based on a skill like the iajitsu master... --void sense is an advanced skill that the original PrC focused mastery in to access. The things it can do are just too broad and powerful for a base class, IMO.

--AFB ATM.. his is a full casting spontaneous class... the original PrC cost some casting levels, didn't it?
--Also; are your metamagic alterations permanently forcing spells to be full round actions, or just raw FREE modifications? (I assume the latter.)
--In fact, it looks like this class GIVES you 4 free feats in 6 levels, and later ALL spells are still spells and silent spells? This is equal to 6 EPIC feats this class has been given for nothing.
--AND the ability to give anyone ANY feat without prereqs... whirlwind attack is I think the most feats I can cram in for free... the warhulk is a 10 level PrC that eventually grants the equivalent of whirlwind as a class ability... bam. this guy + a giant sized cleric = smart warhulk at 5th LEVEL.
--This guy gets all good saves... beguiler only gets good will saves. You should stick to that format as well.
--voidstrike supernatural enervation that burns spell slots to use? no save, no resist, no countering. sure, it's not a ray; so the voidD will have to enter melee to resolve it... but this is NOT a negative energy effect.. you could x literally anything with this. Assuming 2 levels drained per touch.. you could end literally any creature published this way.


If you just tacked on voidsense and the free void feats, this would make a fantaxtic alternate sorcerer. keep the d6 HP and the wisdom to ac, lose everything else for the limited style beguiler list.

My responses are never popular. compare this to the sorcerer and beguiler. that's where it should sit if you feel it shouldn't stay a divine PrC.

[jiriku]

Some good points. I haven't had a chance to playtest this class yet (although one of my players may run one beginning next month), so of course balance is an ongoing concern.


I've DM'd a void disciple before. that's why this was a Shugenja PrC.

Yeah, the original void disciple prestige class is a D&D take on the Isawa Ishiken school from AEG's Legend of the Five Rings RPG. I'm a big L5R fan.


When we take a PrC and convert it to a base class-- we take those double digit abilities and make them available around 1st - 5th level, and then dump a lot of extra stuff on top of it for free so it isn't so empty looking (never mind that the sorcerer is TOTALLY empty aside from all the spontaneous casting goodness of a 2nd tier class).. often those freebies are the prerequisites previously required to earn the PrC to begin with... or gives bonuses for that aspect of choices... the PrC becomes inferior to the new base class.

This is a valid concern. It is true that I've granted the various abilities at lower levels than granted by the prestige class. But, mindful of that, I nerfed them too. Do you feel I didn't nerf them hard enough?


Furthermore; The VoidD was a PrC based on a skill like the iajitsu master... --void sense is an advanced skill that the original PrC focused mastery in to access. The things it can do are just too broad and powerful for a base class, IMO.

--AFB ATM.. htis is a full casting spontaneous class... the original PrC cost some casting levels, didn't it?

Yes, the original PrC granted 8/13 casting. I grok the idea that Sense Void is a powerful, exploitable ability that the VoidDPrC sacrifices much to acquire. I mean, 5 lost levels of casting, ZOMG, right? I tried to manage that in two ways:


First, I nerfed the crap out of the ability: my Sense Void is TONS weaker and more limited than the stock version.

Second, I gave the arcane Void Disciple much less casting dakka than the divine version. While having a spontaneous list is nice, the arcane Void Disciple's spell list is...esoteric, to say the least. It's really only good at divination and debuff, with a side helping of skill boosts at low levels and SoD at high levels. It can't fly, turn invisible, teleport, summon, heal, control minds, create illusions, blast, tank, or do battlefield control, and it's only OK at buffing allies. Plus it gets fewer spells/day compared to the beguiler.

You're saying I need to cut more. You may well be right. I think the Void Disciple is the strongest of my five elemental casters, despite its limitations. Its abilities are very open-ended, and IME that always counts for more than big bonuses and handfuls of dice. Do you think it needs a smaller spell list? I could prune 10-12 more spells without ruining the concept.


--Also; are your metamagic alterations permanently forcing spells to be full round actions, or just raw FREE modifications? (I assume the latter.)

You're correct: the alterations to Void spells are free.

The intent is not so much to grant free power as to make the use of Void magic subtle. I considered several other mechanics like contested skill rolls or SLAs, but ultimately those methods slowed down gameplay or dramatically altered the class's core mechanics, while creating conceptual headaches (e.g. "how is your casting hidden when everyone sees rays of magical energy firing from your hands?"). I settled on using the feats because I like my classes to merge closely with existing mechanics. I could just as easily have written a new class feature and said "Subtletly of Void (Ex): When you cast spells, there's no outward sign that you're doing it."


--In fact, it looks like this class GIVES you 4 free feats in 6 levels, and later ALL spells are still spells and silent spells? This is equal to 6 EPIC feats this class has been given for nothing.
--AND the ability to give anyone ANY feat without prereqs... whirlwind attack is I think the most feats I can cram in for free... the warhulk is a 10 level PrC that eventually grants the equivalent of whirlwind as a class ability... bam. this guy + a giant sized cleric = smart warhulk at 5th LEVEL.
--This guy gets all good saves... beguiler only gets good will saves. You should stick to that format as well.
--voidstrike supernatural enervation that burns spell slots to use? no save, no resist, no countering. sure, it's not a ray; so the voidD will have to enter melee to resolve it... but this is NOT a negative energy effect.. you could x literally anything with this. Assuming 2 levels drained per touch.. you could end literally any creature published this way.

I get where you're coming from. There's a lot of feature trash thrown in there, and they're all pretty nice. I think this opens up an interesting conversation for us regarding class design philosophy and the power of these features.

Here's where I'm coming from with class design:

Classes like cleric and sorcerer are bad classes, despite their power. Without real features, they're boring to advance through, and there's no real reason to stay in them, because all their power is in their spell list, and you can easily prc out, keep the spell list, and get more benefits besides.

Classes like druid, archivist, and dread necromancer are good classes, despite their game balance foibles, because there's always something new to discover as you level up, and there's a real opportunity cost in lost class features if you exit to a prc.
So, if we're going from base class cleric to base class void disciple, I want to offload some of the power that lived in the spell list and convert it into power that lives in the class features. This increases the fun factor and decreases the incentive to jump ship into a prc. I also want to nerf Sense Void, because without a nerf it's simply broken. Finally, I want to drop the overall power level from a low T1 to a high T3.

The reduction in spells/day is a real drain in strength from level 4 onward, although a modest one. The narrow spell list is a HARD hit compared to the tier 1 casters that form our frame of reference: that's good because we need to have few if any game-breaking combos available if we're going to live in T3.

So how about feature power?
I'd consider Void Use, Drawing the Void, and Depth of the Void to be worth about as much as a sorcerer's familiar. The bonuses are small (just +2 per VP, and you can't usually use more than one per roll), and while bigger numbers are nice, more options is better.

Boundless Sight is worth about a feat, if a strong one. It's better than Lifesense but worse than Mindsight.

Advanced learning is worth about one spell known per level. In fact, originally drafted the class without advanced learning, and when I added it, I cut one spell of each level from the spells known list to balance it.

Altering the Course is pretty sweet. I'd say that's probably worth an additional st and 2nd level spell per day (about what it would take to replace it. At higher levels it scales pretty well, so I might weigh out one of the higher-level spells per day as well.

Subtlety of Void is difficult to assign to a power or cost. In a straight-up combat game like RHoD or WLD, it's worth very little, but in a game that stressed intrigue and social interaction, the ability to cast unobserved would be quite potent. What could you do with this ability on this class?

Moment of Clarity is also pretty sweet. I'd cost it at a 3rd-level spell per day, better than heroics but not as good as polymorph or greater invisibility. Giving the DM explicit permission to say "no" to specific uses prevents most forms of abuse. I do notice that I included a heck of a lot of uses per day at higher levels. Perhaps we could cut that down to half as many, or use the sack-a-spell-to-gain-a-use mechanic I used with Void Strike? What do you think?

Sense Void is hoss. Even nerfed, it's still the flagship ability of the class. Cut access to 95% of the Conjuration, Enchantment, Illusion, and Transmutation schools and call it a day? I did.

Void Strike is pretty meh in my book. Yeah, it's hard to avoid. But it's not an encounter-ending effect like evard's black tentacles or confusion, and you can't improve it with metamagic. I'd cost it at about a 4th level spell-equivalent.

It seemed kind of lame to just get it once per day, but I didn't want to scatter another uses-per-day mechanic across the class table, so I allowed the void disciple to effectively spontaneously convert 4th-level spells to this. Since it can already cast spontaneously, I'd value this at 1 additional 4th-level spell known on the spells known list. I actually cut one 4th level spell known when I added the refresh mechanic.

Notice that there aren't any class features here that compare with, say, the lost 9th-level spell per day at level 20. That's one less wish, or foresight, or sphere of ultimate destruction. You could spend your Void Points for +Win to any roll you please, and it still wouldn't be worth that missing 9th level spell.

[fil kearney]

Here's where I'm coming from with class design:

Classes like cleric and sorcerer are bad classes, despite their power. Without real features, they're boring to advance through, and there's no real reason to stay in them, because all their power is in their spell list, and you can easily prc out, keep the spell list, and get more benefits besides.

Classes like druid, archivist, and dread necromancer are good classes, despite their game balance foibles, because there's always something new to discover as you level up, and there's a real opportunity cost in lost class features if you exit to a prc.
So, if we're going from base class cleric to base class void disciple, I want to offload some of the power that lived in the spell list and convert it into power that lives in the class features. This increases the fun factor and decreases the incentive to jump ship into a prc. I also want to nerf Sense Void, because without a nerf it's simply broken. Finally, I want to drop the overall power level from a low T1 to a high T3.

The reduction in spells/day is a real drain in strength from level 4 onward, although a modest one. The narrow spell list is a HARD hit compared to the tier 1 casters that form our frame of reference: that's good because we need to have few if any game-breaking combos available if we're going to live in T3.


I agree with the comment. The problem is Cleric was overpowered so someone was willing to heal. it's a crappy metagame mechanic that was never thought through properly...
Except L5R provided an awesome balancing factor to the CoD & Druid; the Spirit Shaman and Shugenja. They aren't popular choices, but they are FAR more balanced. Sorcerer.. agreed. anything to bail from that class is an improvement. In that sense, your base class has improved upon that dead class.



This is a valid concern. It is true that I've granted the various abilities at lower levels than granted by the prestige class. But, mindful of that, I nerfed them too. Do you feel I didn't nerf them hard enough?

...

the original PrC granted 8/13 casting. I grok the idea that Sense Void is a powerful, exploitable ability that the VoidDPrC sacrifices much to acquire. I mean, 5 lost levels of casting, ZOMG, right? I tried to manage that in two ways:


First, I nerfed the crap out of the ability: my Sense Void is TONS weaker and more limited than the stock version.




This is my bad: I've yet to reread the core void features... and I did not realize they've been nerfed. My memory tells me voidsense was what mindsight is now.. but also with scry ability on top of it... friggin amazing for recon and anti-sniping. I'll give it a good read and compare your revision for an honest answer.





Second, I gave the arcane Void Disciple much less casting dakka than the divine version. While having a spontaneous list is nice, the arcane Void Disciple's spell list is...esoteric, to say the least. It's really only good at divination and debuff, with a side helping of skill boosts at low levels and SoD at high levels. It can't fly, turn invisible, teleport, summon, heal, control minds, create illusions, blast, tank, or do battlefield control, and it's only OK at buffing allies. Plus it gets fewer spells/day compared to the beguiler.

You're saying I need to cut more. You may well be right. I think the Void Disciple is the strongest of my five elemental casters, despite its limitations. Its abilities are very open-ended, and IME that always counts for more than big bonuses and handfuls of dice. Do you think it needs a smaller spell list? I could prune 10-12 more spells without ruining the concept.

You're correct: the alterations to Void spells are free.

The intent is not so much to grant free power as to make the use of Void magic subtle. I considered several other mechanics like contested skill rolls or SLAs, but ultimately those methods slowed down gameplay or dramatically altered the class's core mechanics, while creating conceptual headaches (e.g. "how is your casting hidden when everyone sees rays of magical energy firing from your hands?"). I settled on using the feats because I like my classes to merge closely with existing mechanics. I could just as easily have written a new class feature and said "Subtletly of Void (Ex): When you cast spells, there's no outward sign that you're doing it."


But they CAN fly, turn invisible, teleport, summon, control minds, create illusions, blast, tank, and do battlefield control because it has a free cherry pick from the arcane list at various levels.
Silent Stilled Invisible grease, summon monsters, solid fog, antimagic sphere, prismatic wall and sphere are just a quick fist full of spells that the VoidD gets to screw NPC's without dipping into the countless splatbooks. By itself, the granted spell upgrades SEEM harmless and flavorful, but I just ran an arena combat where the mage used invisible stinking cloud to DEVASTATING effectiveness against 4 opponents. tag a caster with d4 negative levels and his fort is trashed... then have him try to stumble out of an invisible field of nauseated badness... a second invisible still silenced stinking cloud lets the caster remain totally incapacitated, but totally NOT concealed from missle fire. just stands there helplessly as he and his companions are picked apart. Instead, hold action to drop a stilled silenced invisible prismatic sphere on the charging tank. if he survives to get through to you, ding him for d4 negative levels and walk through the sphere for rinse repeat (no AoO on SU abilities)




So how about feature power?
I'd consider Void Use, Drawing the Void, and Depth of the Void to be worth about as much as a sorcerer's familiar. The bonuses are small (just +2 per VP, and you can't usually use more than one per roll), and while bigger numbers are nice, more options is better.

Boundless Sight is worth about a feat, if a strong one. It's better than Lifesense but worse than Mindsight.

Advanced learning is worth about one spell known per level. In fact, originally drafted the class without advanced learning, and when I added it, I cut one spell of each level from the spells known list to balance it.

Altering the Course is pretty sweet. I'd say that's probably worth an additional st and 2nd level spell per day (about what it would take to replace it. At higher levels it scales pretty well, so I might weigh out one of the higher-level spells per day as well.

Subtlety of Void is difficult to assign to a power or cost. In a straight-up combat game like RHoD or WLD, it's worth very little, but in a game that stressed intrigue and social interaction, the ability to cast unobserved would be quite potent. What could you do with this ability on this class?

Moment of Clarity is also pretty sweet. I'd cost it at a 3rd-level spell per day, better than heroics but not as good as polymorph or greater invisibility. Giving the DM explicit permission to say "no" to specific uses prevents most forms of abuse. I do notice that I included a heck of a lot of uses per day at higher levels. Perhaps we could cut that down to half as many, or use the sack-a-spell-to-gain-a-use mechanic I used with Void Strike? What do you think?

Sense Void is hoss. Even nerfed, it's still the flagship ability of the class. Cut access to 95% of the Conjuration, Enchantment, Illusion, and Transmutation schools and call it a day? I did.

Void Strike is pretty meh in my book. Yeah, it's hard to avoid. But it's not an encounter-ending effect like evard's black tentacles or confusion, and you can't improve it with metamagic. I'd cost it at about a 4th level spell-equivalent.

It seemed kind of lame to just get it once per day, but I didn't want to scatter another uses-per-day mechanic across the class table, so I allowed the void disciple to effectively spontaneously convert 4th-level spells to this. Since it can already cast spontaneously, I'd value this at 1 additional 4th-level spell known on the spells known list. I actually cut one 4th level spell known when I added the refresh mechanic.

Notice that there aren't any class features here that compare with, say, the lost 9th-level spell per day at level 20. That's one less wish, or foresight, or sphere of ultimate destruction. You could spend your Void Points for +Win to any roll you please, and it still wouldn't be worth that missing 9th level spell.

I will restate that a silenced stilled invisible sphere of ultimate destruction is instant doom for anyone casually walking into it. THAT would be worth one 9th per day... this is effectively an 11th level spell being cast.
I'll have to spend time looking over the above comments.

I just disagree with the free metamagic feats, even if you change the name and format. the mechanics are the same. 11th level spells.
I'd ditch that whole idea. the guy is a caster. if you want him to not have any indication, you could redo it as a psion (not a bad option, really)

[jiriku]

But they CAN fly, turn invisible, teleport, summon, control minds, create illusions, blast, tank, and do battlefield control because it has a free cherry pick from the arcane list at various levels.

Hmm, I'm not sure I buy into this. You get five spells from advanced learning: likely a 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level spell. Assuming you pick silent image, fly, greater invisibility, greater teleport, and summon monster IX, you've only got half of those things (and you get them later than other casters do). Advanced learning can't fill all the holes. Do you think it should be removed altogether? I included it chiefly because the definition of "void magic" is so vague that I wanted to give the player the opportunity to add some spells that fit his personal "take" on void magic.


Silent Stilled Invisible grease, summon monsters, solid fog, antimagic sphere, prismatic wall and sphere are just a quick fist full of spells that the VoidD gets to screw NPC's without dipping into the countless splatbooks.

The DM has explicit permission to modify spells acquired through advanced learning if he deems them too powerful in conjunction with Void Disciple class features (such as Subtlety of Void). I figured this would prevent any abuses. Do you think I should include instructions or examples on how to do this? I'll concede that a novice DM might not be able to anticipate some of those problems prior to gameplay. Maybe I should just drop the line specifying that spells gained through advanced learning acquire the Void descriptor?


By itself, the granted spell upgrades SEEM harmless and flavorful, but I just ran an arena combat where the mage used invisible stinking cloud to DEVASTATING effectiveness against 4 opponents. tag a caster with d4 negative levels and his fort is trashed... then have him try to stumble out of an invisible field of nauseated badness... a second invisible still silenced stinking cloud lets the caster remain totally incapacitated, but totally NOT concealed from missle fire. just stands there helplessly as he and his companions are picked apart. Instead, hold action to drop a stilled silenced invisible prismatic sphere on the charging tank. if he survives to get through to you, ding him for d4 negative levels and walk through the sphere for rinse repeat (no AoO on SU abilities)

I will restate that a silenced stilled invisible sphere of ultimate destruction is instant doom for anyone casually walking into it.

It seems like most of your complaint is directed towards the Invisible Spell feat. A silenced stilled VISIBLE sphere of destruction isn't appreciably more dangerous than a regular sphere. I can see your position, but how to adjust that? I mean, Invisible Spell is a +0 adjustment feat. Any caster can use it on "awesome spell x" with no adjustment. The fact that you do or do not make characteristic spellcasting motions doesn't have much to do with the threat created when casting "invisible awesome spell x".

If anything, I think the big advantage of an automatic Still Spell and Silent Spell is that you can cast freely in a grapple or the area of a silence spell, or when bound, gagged, or otherwise unable to cast freely. That's the usual reason people take those feats. Thing is, none of those situations occur frequently, and when they do, cheap teleportation items (like anklet of translocation) are often just as effective at getting you out of trouble. That's why people usually DON'T take Still Spell and Silent Spell. They're rarely useful and cheap alternatives are available.


THAT would be worth one 9th per day... this is effectively an 11th level spell being cast....I just disagree with the free metamagic feats, even if you change the name and format. the mechanics are the same. 11th level spells.

Hmm. Ok, I'll agree that the free still and silent is worth the lost 9th-level spell slot. Maybe even the 9th and the 8th combined. But let's acknowledge that not all metamagic feats are created equal. Stilled silent sphere of ultimate destruction is not as good as empowered sphere of ultimate destruction, for example. It's not even as good as heightened sphere of ultimate destruction in an 11th level slot for +2 save DC.

If you wanted a discreet caster, what mechanic would you use? Perhaps I could do something like this:


Subtlety of Void: Regardless of the spell components required, your Void spells are very difficult to identify or even notice. You gain Invisible Spell as a bonus feat, ignoring prerequisites, but may only apply it to your Void spells. Additionally, others must succeed on a Spot check at a DC of 10 + your caster level + your Sleight of Hand bonus to notice your spellcasting when you cast an invisible spell, and the DC to identify your invisible spells with Spellcraft is increased by your caster level.

[jiriku]

Made a broad series of changes to most class features, intended chiefly to simplify the class so players will have less to keep track of. Void disciple has proven a popular class in my play groups, but it's been keeping players a bit too busy studying their character sheets.

This is a first draft of a major revision to the void disciple that I will be making in a few months. I'm intending to rewrite the class as a mystery user, rather than an arcane spellcaster. The mechanical change will better communicate the mystical quality of the void, IMO, and sets the void disciple up as an interesting counterpart to the shadowcaster.

[jiriku]

Pretty much yeah. Most [epic] feats actually suck pretty bad, so I'm expecting that they won't be very popular choices. Granting Martial Study or Robilar's Gambit to melee-oriented ally, or giving yourself a metamagic feat like Quicken Spell or Sudden Maximize is likely to be a better use of your ability.

[Garryl]

Props for a Wisdom-based arcane caster (there just aren't enough of them), even if it's only through the adaptation.

Have you considered rejiggering the spell progression? At even levels, you gain 4 spell slots, including a new spell level, but at odd levels you only gain a single spell slot. This is particularly egregious at level 15, where you also gain no new class features, and you don't increases your BaB or saves at all.

I'm intrigued by Ishiken-Do. It looks like it ensures you don't get stifled by immunities, while also reinforcing the class's flavor. I'm concerned about the oddity of energy spells not having the descriptors of their energy damage types, although it's not entirely without precedent (the prismatic spells in core, for example). I don't see any such spells on the spell list (other than using Wish and Limited Wish for such spells), although adding new spells to a spell list is relatively simple these days. Also note a (possibly unintended) consequence, that spells that used to be Force effects are no longer Force effects, and thus do not reliably affect incorporeal targets, nor can they cross the ethereal boundary at all. I'm not even going to think about what happens to Teleportation spells and teleportation- or planar travel-blocking effects.

How do you regain your spent Void Points? No recovery method is given in No-Thought or any other class features I saw until Self/No Self at 11th level, which would mean you only have a total of 5 void points over the first 10 levels of your career. Even action points (which these can be spent like) are regained anew each level.

Would Boundless Sight be a problem for light-sensitive Void Disciples (such as Orcs, Drow, and Kobolds)? I'm not sure of the interactions.

Moment of Clarity has no listed limitations on daily uses, but refers to gaining additional daily uses "every three levels thereafter". I would assume that "thereafter" is referring to after 5th level (the level you gain the ability), although this is unclear due to its last mention being more than a full paragraph earlier. The table indicates that Moment of Clarity can be used only once per day at 5th level, but this should be indicated in the text.

I'm concerned about the potential for Moment of Clarity's prerequisite-less bonus feats. I can't, offhand, think of anything too ridiculous you can do with it, but it is worrisome. I'm also concerned about actually granting the feat (rather than just its benefits or effects) and how that interacts with the DCFS.

Why are the important parts of Sense Void's description hidden away in a spoiler? I almost missed it.

I'm not familiar with most of the spells, so I can't really comment on the spell list.

[jiriku]

Have you considered rejiggering the spell progression? At even levels, you gain 4 spell slots, including a new spell level, but at odd levels you only gain a single spell slot. This is particularly egregious at level 15, where you also gain no new class features, and you don't increases your BaB or saves at all.

My long-term intent is to dispense with spellcasting completely and rewrite the class as a mystery user, which will give it an entirely different progression. The current class is an interim state designed to make it simpler and more playable for one of my players who is currently playing it.


I'm intrigued by Ishiken-Do. It looks like it ensures you don't get stifled by immunities, while also reinforcing the class's flavor. I'm concerned about the oddity of energy spells not having the descriptors of their energy damage types, although it's not entirely without precedent (the prismatic spells in core, for example). I don't see any such spells on the spell list (other than using Wish and Limited Wish for such spells), although adding new spells to a spell list is relatively simple these days. Also note a (possibly unintended) consequence, that spells that used to be Force effects are no longer Force effects, and thus do not reliably affect incorporeal targets, nor can they cross the ethereal boundary at all. I'm not even going to think about what happens to Teleportation spells and teleportation- or planar travel-blocking effects.

Yep. This is one of the reasons I removed Advanced Learning, as it created simply too many possible unanticipated interactions with Ishiken-do. The weakness against incorporeal creatures is intended, as most of them are undead, and the void disciple has very few ways to interact with such creatures.


How do you regain your spent Void Points? No recovery method is given in No-Thought or any other class features I saw until Self/No Self at 11th level, which would mean you only have a total of 5 void points over the first 10 levels of your career. Even action points (which these can be spent like) are regained anew each level.

Void points are regained in full each time you regain your spells. I'll add that into the description.


Would Boundless Sight be a problem for light-sensitive Void Disciples (such as Orcs, Drow, and Kobolds)? I'm not sure of the interactions.

Good question. I have slightly rewritten the ability now to address this.


Moment of Clarity has no listed limitations on daily uses, but refers to gaining additional daily uses "every three levels thereafter". I would assume that "thereafter" is referring to after 5th level (the level you gain the ability), although this is unclear due to its last mention being more than a full paragraph earlier. The table indicates that Moment of Clarity can be used only once per day at 5th level, but this should be indicated in the text.

Good suggestion.


I'm concerned about the potential for Moment of Clarity's prerequisite-less bonus feats. I can't, offhand, think of anything too ridiculous you can do with it, but it is worrisome. I'm also concerned about actually granting the feat (rather than just its benefits or effects) and how that interacts with the DCFS.

What is DCFS?


Why are the important parts of Sense Void's description hidden away in a spoiler? I almost missed it.

Just trying to make the page less of a chore to scroll through. :smallsmile:

[Garryl]

DCFS stands for Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle. There are a pair of spells from Fiendish Compendium 1 or 2 (don't remember which) called Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos that effectively let you turn one feat into any other. However, since they do so by making you actually lose a feat and then gain a new feat (rather than some sort of transformative thing), temporarily-granted bonus feats would actually be made into permanent extra feats.

[jiriku]

Ah! For those who are interested in the designer's interpretation, my thought is that using the shuffle to switch a temporary feat does not change its duration. Thus, shuffling a feat gained via Moment of Clarity gets you a different feat, but does not extend the one minute duration. You'd have been better off just to pick the feat you wanted in the first place. Any other interpretation quickly leads to NI feats, which can in turn lead to NI hit points, skill points, AC, psionic power points, inspiration points, spell slots, etc. etc. etc. etc..

[appending_doom]

When you say Void Points are used like action points, does that mean if you gain a feat that gives you a new use for your action points, you can use your Void Points in the same way?

[jiriku]

My inclination would be to say no, because the void disciple gets void points a lot faster than most characters get action points, and anything balanced for a few uses per level might break the game at a few uses per day. Void points are already scary good. Also, I haven't reviewed all of abilities that give you alternate uses for action points to make sure there's nothing broken in there.

That being said, however, if your DM wants to allow it, go for it. I'd recommend adding such uses one at a time on a trial basis, with the understanding that the option may need to be backed out if it proves unbalancing.

[jiriku]

Updated tables and made minor text corrections.

I have completed a MAJOR void disciple rewrite which re-envisions the class as a mystery-user, like the shadowcaster. After extensive use of both versions in our gaming group, we feel the mystery-using void disciple better captures the feel and style we're seeking for the class. I tentatively plan to upload the new void disciple and associated mysteries (there are a LOT) on Sunday 7/1, time permitting.

[jiriku]

The original spellcasting version of the void disciple is archived here, for those who prefer it over the mystery-using version.

1.0 Original version.
1.01 Added a list of referenced sources.
1.02 Added several paragraphs of additional description to the Sense Void feature, defining more precisely how it works and what it can and cannot do.
1.1 Made several updates to the spell list, pruning less useful spells and adding some more useful ones.
1.2 Added the Boundless Sight feature to provide a supernatural sense.
1.3 Added Advanced Learning to increase the flexibility of the spell list.
1.31 Added restrictions on Subtlety of Void to make it clear that the virtual feats don't interact with prerequisites or metamagic feats.
1.4 Spread the progression of Subtley of Void out over 12 levels instead of 4.
1.5 Removed the Elemental Lore feature, which didn't see use in actual gameplay. Sacred and profane bonuses from [void] spells are now converted to competence bonuses, instead of insight bonuses.
1.6 Removed the Void Strike and Void Suppression features, converting them into spells. Greatly simplified Subtlety of Void. Replaced Void Use and Depth of the Void with No-Thought, which now explicitly copies the action point system. Void points are now tracked as a column on the class table. Made minor edits to Altering the Course, Moment of Clarity, and Self/No Self. Eliminated Advanced Learning.
1.61 Updated tables, made some minor text corrections.

Void is an intuitive sense, and some may consider the void disciple more appropriately described as a Wisdom-based caster. A Wisdom-based void disciple is better-defended, with a stronger Will save and a better Armor Class through the Empty Mind feature, but will have considerably fewer skill points and will be less versatile.


GAME RULE INFORMATION
Void disciples have the following game statistics.


Abilities: Intelligence is the most important ability for a Void disciple, as it determines how powerful a spell she can cast, how many spells she can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. Wisdom improved a void disciple's Armor Class, while void disciples who use ray spells frequently will appreciate a high Dexterity. A void disciple also benefits from a high Constitution score much as a sorcerer or wizard would. A void disciple who focuses on social interaction may rely on Wisdom and Charisma to support key skills, but with a little forethought, her class features and spells can more than compensate for low skill bonuses.


Alignment: Any Neutral. Void disciples must maintain some level of detachment from the affairs of the world in order to focus on the infinite.


Hit Die: d6


LevelBase AttackFortRefWillSpecialVoid Points-0--1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9-

1st
+0
+2
+2
+2Empty mind, ishiken-do, no-thought, subtlety of void
253--------

2nd
+1
+3
+3
+3Boundless sight
254--------

3rd
+1
+3
+3
+3Altering the course
255--------

4th
+2
+4
+4
+4
3553-------

5th
+2
+4
+4
+4Moment of clarity 1/day
3554-------

6th
+3
+5
+5
+5Sense void 2/day (physical senses)
35553------

7th
+3
+5
+5
+5
45554------

8th
+4
+6
+6
+6Moment of clarity 2/day
455553-----

9th
+4
+6
+6
+6
455554-----

10th
+5
+7
+7
+7Sense void 4/day (magical senses)
5555553----

11th
+5
+7
+7
+7Self/no self, moment of clarity 3/day
5555554----

12th
+6/+1
+8
+8
+8
65555553---

13th
+6/+1
+8
+8
+8Void release 1/day
65555554---

14th
+7/+2
+9
+9
+9Sense void 6/day (empathic senses), moment of clarity 4/day
755555553--

15th
+7/+2
+9
+9
+9
755555554--

16th
+8/+3
+10
+10
+10Void release 2/day
8555555553-

17th
+8/+3
+10
+10
+10Moment of clarity 5/day
8555555554-

18th
+9/+4
+11
+11
+11Sense void 8/day (mental senses)
95555555553

19th
+9/+4
+11
+11
+11Void release 3/day
95555555554

20th
+10/+5
+12
+12
+12Moment of clarity 6/day
105555555555[/tr[


CLASS SKILLS (2 + Int mod per level, x4 at 1st level)
A void disciple's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).



CLASS FEATURES
Your spells and class features make you ill-suited for solo roles, but you can be a valuable contributer as a member of a team. You are best suited to tasks that involve negotiating with others or gathering information through divination magic. You are also quite proficient at debuffing foes and enhancing your allies. At higher levels, you can reliably counter enemy spellcasters or even unmake your enemies completely, unraveling their essence.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The void disciple gains proficiency with all simple weapons. She gains no proficiency with armor or shields.


Spells: A void disciple casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the void disciple spell list (below). When you gain access to a new level of spells, you automatically gain access to all the spells for that level on the void disciple’s spell list. You can cast any spell you know without preparing it ahead of time. Essentially, your spell list is the same as your spells known list. If you attempt to cast spells while wearing armor, you suffer an arcane spell failure chance.


To cast a void disciple spell, you must have an Intelligence score of 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a void disciple’s spell is 10 + the spell's level + the void disciple’s Int mod. Like other spellcasters, a void disciple can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. The base daily spell allotment is given in the table above. In addition, you receive bonus spells for a high Intelligence score.


A void disciple need not prepare spells in advance. You can cast any spell you know at any time, assuming you have not yet used up your spells per day for that level.

Empty Mind (Ex): Through kata and meditation, you have learned to clear your mind of fear, desire, and regret, that you may act free from worldly worries. Add your Wisdom bonus to your Armor Class. You lose this bonus whenever you are helpless or immobilized, when you are wearing armor or using a shield, or when you are carrying a medium or heavy load.

Ishiken-Do: Where more traditional arcanists produce effects using set forms and schools, you draw your power through the mastery and manipulation of Void, the emptiness that fills the space between the elements. Your void disciple spells lose any descriptors they may possess, such as [evil], [good], or [mind-affecting], and gain the [void] descriptor.


Your necromancy spells manipulate Void and ki, rather than negative energy. Because you are not channeling negative energy, your [void] spells from the necromancy school that would normally have a special effect on undead creatures (e.g. enervation) instead have no effect on undead at all. Effects that provide resistance or immunity to [negative energy] do not defend against your [void] spells.

Because your spells are not boons from the gods, but rather arcane manipulations of the essence of the universe, your [void] spells that would grant [sacred] or [profane] bonuses grant [competence] bonuses instead.

No-Thought (Ex): Your conscious mastery of the Void allows you to perform feats that others find inexplicable. You gain a number of void points as shown on the table above, which can be spent just like action points. However, void points are not action points, and if your game also uses action points, you must keep track of your void points and action points separately.


Each day, when you ready your spells for the day, you also regain all of your spent void points (up to your normal maximum).

Subtlety of Void (Ex): Void is different from most other arcane magic, used through innate talent rather than gesture and ritual. All of the void disciple's [void] spells may be made invisible, as per the Invisible Spell feat (CS 61).


The void disciple does not actually gain Invisible Spell, and cannot use this class feature to meet prerequisites that require that feat. Spells modified by Subtlety of Void are not considered to have been modified by a metamagic feat (for example, their casting times are not increased).

Boundless Sight (Su): Attuning herself to the void, a void disciple of 2nd level or higher perceives the elemental void in all living things. She gains the Lifesense feat (LM 28), ignoring prerequisites. If the void disciple herself is a living creature (which is usually the case), she also illuminates the surrounding area to her own sight. Although others cannot see this illumination (unless they have the Lifesense feat, naturally), she can always "see" as if she was casting bright illumination in a 60-foot radius if she is a Medium or smaller creature (the radius of the illumination doubles for each size category she is larger than Medium, as normal for the Lifesense feat).

Boundless Sight is a mental sense, not a sight-based sense, and does not interact with other sight-based traits the void disciple may have, such as low-light vision or light sensitivity. It can be used even while blinded.


In addition to the benefits above, the void disciple can perceive undead, pseudonatural creatures, and outsiders native to the Far Realm if they are within the radius of illumination provided by a living creature. Such creatures appear as blots of darkness that are not illuminated within her lifesight; although she can pinpoint their square, they have total concealment from the void disciple unless she has another means of perceiving them (such as through normal vision, for example).

Boundless Sight is of no use in locating or observing constructs.

Altering the Course (Su): Once per day for a single round, a void disciple of 3rd level or higher may spend any number of void points in that round, and can even spend more than one void point to modify a single roll.

Moment of Clarity (Su): At 5th level, a void disciple can grant an ally the temporary ability to perform any skill or feat once per day. She must use a standard action to touch the target, who either learns a new feat he did not already have (ignoring prerequisites), or learns a skill in which he was untrained, gaining ranks equal to one-half his character level. The effect lasts for one minute.


The DM must approve any [epic] feats on a case-by-case basis, and may disallow certain [epic] feats, or allow them only on a one-off basis or at specific dramatic moments in the game (fate can be a fickle mistress).

The void disciple gains an additional use per day of this ability every three levels thereafter.

Sense Void (Su): At 6th level, a void disciple learns to reach out with her mind and sense the world around her, exploring the unseen layers of reality most people rarely experience. The void disciple enters a coma-like state and projects her consciousness afar, extending her perceptions to observe far-distance places, people, or things. The void disciple determines the maximum distance she can sense by making a Spellcraft check, with the DC determined using the table below. "Line of sight" is always measured from the location of the void disciple's physical body, even if an effect (such as Sense Void itself) is currently enabling her to view areas that are not in her direct line of sight. The void disciple may not sense across planar boundaries.



[tr]DistanceDC
Line of sight
5
Up to 1 mile
15
Up to 10 miles
25
Up to 100 miles
35
Up to 1,000 miles
45


Sense Void works much like the clairaudience/clairvoyance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clairaudienceClairvoyance.htm) spell, although it creates a point of perspective instead of a magical sensor. This perspective is not an object and cannot be observed. When sensing, the void disciple places her perspective at a specified location, which must be within range and must be known or obvious to her (although it need not be extremely familiar), or must be adjacent to an object or individual which is known or obvious to her (so, for example, the void disciple could observe "the room on the other side of this door", "the governor of this city", or "my missing house keys", but could not observe "my most dangerous enemy" or "the nearest large treasure"). Once she has selected the locale, she can rotate her perspective in all directions to view the area as desired.

Repositioning the perspective requires a standard action. The void disciple can reposition her perspective as often as she likes, but the maximum distance she can sense is still constrained by her original Spellcraft check. If her attempt to position or reposition her perspective is unsuccessful for any reason (e.g. the target has been warded against divination, has been polymorphed into a different form, or no longer exists) then her perspective does not move and she is aware that the attempt failed (although she does not learn why). She can try to move her perspective again with her next standard action.

A void disciple can activate Sense Void as a standard action, twice per day. She may sense for as long as she wishes, but her body is unconscious and helpless until she dismisses the ability. Each level of sensory detail requires both a minimum void disciple level and a minimum number of ranks in the Spellcraft skill to qualify. If the void disciple does not have at least 9 ranks in Spellcraft, she does not gain Sense Void until she acquires the needed ranks.

Sense Void is a divination (scrying) effect and has the [void] descriptor. It interacts normally with effects that prevent, detect, or fool supernatural divination (scrying) effects. You cannot cast spells while Sense Void is active, except as permitted below.


At 6th level, a void disciple with at least 9 ranks in Spellcraft can perceive with her physical senses: The void disciple may use her normal senses (sight, hearing, touch, taste, smell) to observe whatever area, person, or thing she directs her attention to. She perceives to the normal limit of her senses as if she were standing where her perspective is located. Tactile and thermal senses are applicable for anything within reach of her perspective. Magically or supernaturally enhanced senses do not function through Sense Void. Local environmental conditions may limit her senses (for example, if the perspective is inside a sealed crate and the void disciple does not have darkvision as an extraordinary ability, then she can't see).

At 10th level, the void disciple gains two additional uses per day of Sense Void, and if she has at least 13 ranks in Spellcraft, she can extend magical senses: in addition to the senses above, the void disciple can use detect magic and know greatest enemy at will. Using magical senses is difficult; reduce the void disciple's Spellcraft check result by 10 when determining the maximum distance at which she can utilize magical senses (e.g. with a check result of 15, a void disciple could sense with physical senses to a range of one mile and with magical senses within her line of sight).

At 14th level, the void disciple gains two additional uses per day of Sense Void, and if she has at least 17 ranks in Spellcraft , she can exercise empathic senses: in addition to the senses above, the void disciple can use discern lies, know opponent, and know vulnerabilities at will, and can read emotional states, gaining a +10 circumstance bonus on Sense Motive checks. Using empathic senses is extremely challenging; reduce the void disciple's Spellcraft check result by 20 when determining the maximum distance at which she can utilize empathic senses (e.g. with a check result of 25, a void disciple could sense with physical senses to a range of 10 miles, with magical senses to a range of one mile, and with empathic senses within her line of sight).

At 18th level, the void disciple gains two additional uses per day of Sense Void, and if she has at least 21 ranks in Spellcraft, she can exert mental senses: in addition to the senses above, the void disciple can use detect thoughts and probe thoughts at will. Using mental senses requires tremendous discipline; reduce the void disciple's Spellcraft check result by 30 when determining the maximum distance at which she can utilize mental senses (e.g. with a check result of 35, a void disciple could sense with physical senses to a range of 100 miles, with magical senses to a range of 10 miles, with empathic senses to a range of one mile, and with mental senses within her line of sight).

Self/No Self: Upon reaching 11th level, a void disciple can meditate for 5 minutes to regain all spent void points. This ability can be used once per day. You may not spend void points or action points to gain additional daily uses of this ability.

Void Release (Su): Once per day as a standard action, a void disciple of 13th level or higher can touch an ally to allow that character to use his highest ability score modifier in place of any one lower modifier (target's choice) for one minute.


The void disciple gains an additional use per day of this ability at 16th and 19th level.



0 Level: daze (PH 217), detect magic (PH 219), guidance (PH 238), know direction (PH 246), know greatest enemy (SC 129), mage hand (PH 249), prestidigitation (PH 264), read magic (PH 269).


1st Level: aiming at the target (SC 8), backbiter (SC 23), daze monster (PH 217), detect secret doors (PH 220), dispelling touch (PH2 110), identify (PH 243), immediate assistance (CM 108), improvisation (SC 121), karmic aura (CM 108), know opponent (SC 129), mage armor (PH 249), master’s touch (SC 139), moment of clarity (SC 142), omen of peril (SC 149), ray of enfeeblement (PH 269), shield (PH 278), true casting (CM 101), true strike (PH 296), vertigo (PH2 127).


2nd Level: arcane turmoil (CM 96), augury (PH 202), black karma curse (PH2 103), blade brothers (PH2 103), celerity, lesser (PH2 105), combined talent (CM100), death armor (SC 60), detect thoughts (PH 220), heroics (SC 113), insight of good fortune (PH2 115), know vulnerabilities (SC 129), linked perception (PH2 117), ray of weakness (SC 168), rebuke (SC 170), see invisibility (PH 275), shadow spray (SC 186), share talents (PH2 124), spell immunity, lesser (SC 199), status (PH 284), stay the hand (PH2 126), sure strike (PH2 126).


3rd Level: alter fortune (PH2 101), anticipate teleportation (SC 13), arcane sight (PH 201), bestow curse (SC 203), blink (PH 206), clarity of mind (SC 46), discern lies (PH 221), dispel magic (PH 223), divination (PH 224), hesitate (PH2 114), karmic backlash (CM 109), mage armor, greater (SC 136), nature’s balance (SC 145), nondetection (PH 257), remove curse (PH 270), shadow phase (SC 185), spell vulnerability (SC 200), spellcaster’s bane (CM 117), unluck (SC 227), vampiric touch (PH 298), vertigo field (PH2 128), vulnerability (SC 232).


4th Level: assay spell resistance (SC 17), backlash (SC 23), baleful blink (SC 102), celerity (PH2 105), detect scrying (PH 219), dimensional anchor (PH 221), dismissal (PH 222), enervation (PH 226), finger of agony (CM 104), globe of invulnerability, lesser (PH 236), rebuke, greater (SC 170), ruin delver’s fortune (SC 178), sensory deprivation (SC 182), spell enhancer (SC 198), spell immunity (PH 282), stifle spell (PH2 126), subvert planar essence (SC 211), void strike.


5th Level: arcane fusion (CM 96), blink, greater (SC 32), break enchantment (PH 207), channeled lifetheft (CM 98), contact other plane (PH 212), darkbolt (SC 58), duelward (SC 74), etherealness, swift (PH2 113), karmic retribution (CM 109), magic jar (PH 250), mana flux (PH2 119), night’s caress (SC 147), reciprocal gyre (SC 170), shadow form (SC 183), telekinesis (PH 292).


6th Level: anticipate teleportation, greater (SC 13), antimagic field (PH 200), banishment (PH 203), bestow curse, greater (SC 27), chasing perfection (PH2 106), commune (PH 211), disintegrate (PH 226), eyes of the oracle (DrM 66), globe of invulnerability (PH 236), legend lore (PH 246), probe thoughts (SC 162), ray of entropy (SC 167), true seeing (PH 296), void suppression.


7th Level: antimagic ray (SC 14), arcane sight, greater (PH 201), arcane spellsurge (DrM 64), body outside body (CArc 100), condemnation (PH2 107), death dragon (SC 60), destruction (PH 218), etherealness, (PH 227), kiss of draconic defiance (DrM 67), limited wish (PH 248), rebuke, final (SC 170), spell turning (PH 282), vision (PH 298).


8th Level: arcane fusion, greater (CM 96), celerity, greater (PH2 105), energy drain (PH 226), moment of prescience (PH 255), mysterious redirection (CM 111), polymorph any object (objects only) (PH 263), spell immunity, greater (PH 282), temporal stasis (PH 293), visions of the future (PH2 128).


9th Level: absorption (SC 6), astral projection (PH 201), foresight (PH 233), hindsight (SC 114), reality maelstrom (SC 168), reaving dispel (SC 169), sphere of ultimate destruction (SC 200), transcend mortality (CM 120), wish (PH 302).

Void Strike
Necromancy [void]
Level: void disciple 4
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: 1 living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

With the lightest of touches upon one of your target’s chakras, you draw forth his life energy, claiming the Void within him for yourself.

You must make a melee touch attack to hit. If the attack succeeds, the subject gains 1d4 negative levels. Assuming the subject survives, it regains lost levels after a number of hours equal to your caster level (maximum 15 hours). For each negative level bestowed, you gain one Void point (up to your normal maximum) and 5 temporary hit points. The temporary hit points last one hour.


Void Suppression
Transmutation [void]
Level: void disciple 6
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: 1 living creature
Duration: 5 rounds
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

With the lightest of touches upon one of your target’s chakras, you confuse the elements within him, subverting his natural connection to the Void.

You must make a melee touch attack to hit. If the attack succeeds, the subject cannot use his ability score modifier for one ability score of your choice, and must use his lowest ability score modifier instead. For example, if you touch a troll with Strength 24 whose lowest ability score is 6, you could force him to use a Strength modifier of -2 instead of his normal modifier of +7. This cannot change a creature’s hit points. Additionally, if the subject has void points, he may not spend them for the duration of this effect. As a full-round action, the subject can attempt a DC 25 Autohypnosis or Concentration check to end this effect.

Extra Void Points [General]
Your pool of void points is larger than normal.
Prerequisites: No-Thought class feature
Benefit: The size of your pool of action points increases by 2.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Its effects stack.

[jiriku]

For those who are still following this thread, I have created a 5e port of the void disciple, which is now the sorcerer origin void disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?573749-Void-Disciple-a-sorcerer-origin&p=23504486#post23504486). This class will no longer be updated.