PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Ranged Cleric Optimization



Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-12, 10:38 AM
Another in the "Kustom Campaign Optimization" series!

I am playing a Human Aristrocrat 1 with the intent of going Cleric. With a 16 DEX and 14 WIS, I'm thinking of going an atypical CoDzilla route by using ranged weapons.

(If the above information seemed insane, just roll with it)

Here are some additional details:

- I am using "blackpowder weapons" with the following stats:
Musket (1d12, Crit x3, Range 150 ft, Load Standard)
Pistol (1d10, Crit x3, Range 50 ft, Load Standard)

- Said weapons are normally Exotic, but I am proficient in them for free

- My 1st level feats were Point Blank and Precise Shot. I can change these if need be

- I will be worshiping Our Lady of Technology, but the DM hasn't written up much about her - so Domains may be open to negotiation.

My DM is running a largely Core game with some homebrewing to suit himself. He is open to suggestions but if extremely leery of powergaming. That said, he is by no means up on the CharOP and, while I don't intend to break his game, I would like to give myself what advantages I can get "just in case." My fellow players are all new to the system so this optimization will also be for their (indirect) benefit.

I beseech the 3.5'ers of the Playground for the following guidance:
- What Feats/Domains should I select for this character?
- Are there any important Feats/Domains/Spells I could reasonably suggest to the DM without freaking him out?
- What Spells should I focus on using for early (Caster LV 1-5) play?

woodenbandman
2010-07-12, 10:40 AM
Greater Magic Weapon + Quick Draw for the future. It's actually kinda suboptimal because you can't apply your strength to damage. See if he'll allow crossbow sniper (add half your dex to damage) to apply.

Optimystik
2010-07-12, 10:50 AM
Our Lady of Technology sounds like you can easily swing the Artifice and Creation domains. If you have both of them, you get +3 untyped to your CL for all Conjuration (Creation) spells, and you can point out to your DM that they share some spells. You can also create any ammunition etc. that you might need for your firearms.

jiriku
2010-07-12, 10:53 AM
While you aren't a gnome, the Gnome domain (SpC) contains some spells with a technological theme. It could be reflavored as a Technology domain. Since technology is expensive, it would normally reserved for members of the nobility, like yourself. I could see domains like Nobility and Pride (also SpC) fitting in here. Knowledge and War would also be logical domain choices.

Your weapons suck, so definitely look into some custom feats for rapid reloading. Once you get past about level 2, you aren't accomplishing anything by dealing 5-7 points of damage once every other round.

Bear in mind that historically, primitive muskets and rifles were only fired once or twice at close quarters, then tossed aside in favor of a melee weapon like a sword or bayonet. Relying solely on a firearmin close quarters does not work until you have access to a fast-reloading weapon with a magazine or clip. Is your pistol a magazine weapon or a single-shot weapon? If it has a magazine, look into buying/crafting/inventing a speedloader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedloader), which might plausibly give you the benefits of rapid reload without investing a feat or spending thousands on a magical self-reloading weapon.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-12, 11:30 AM
Excellent advice thus far!


Your weapons suck, so definitely look into some custom feats for rapid reloading. Once you get past about level 2, you aren't accomplishing anything by dealing 5-7 points of damage once every other round.

Bear in mind that historically, primitive muskets and rifles were only fired once or twice at close quarters, then tossed aside in favor of a melee weapon like a sword or bayonet. Relying solely on a firearmin close quarters does not work until you have access to a fast-reloading weapon with a magazine or clip. Is your pistol a magazine weapon or a single-shot weapon? If it has a magazine, look into buying/crafting/inventing a speedloader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedloader), which might plausibly give you the benefits of rapid reload without investing a feat or spending thousands on a magical self-reloading weapon.
This was a concern of mine, but I was lured by the following:
- 150' range increment on a d12 ain't too shabby
- A one-handed d10 ranged weapon with 50' range increments seemed tasty
- Instead of being a Full Action, I can still Move and Reload

Unfortunately the DM already shot down Rapid Reload but that was due to concerns that these firearms would be "overpowered." I presume that after a few combats he may change his mind :smalltongue:

I hadn't thought about modifying the weapons myself, but I was already planning to get my Craft on to acquire some Masterwork weapons. Since my character is framed as a tinkerer, I might be able to get my DM to let me "invent" a Speedloader - or at least Mine Balls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini%C3%A9_ball). Once they're invented, I should be able to use some manner of Creation spell to make as many as I need :smallamused:

Akal Saris
2010-07-12, 11:30 AM
You might consider the Law Devotion feat at 3rd level: +3/5/7 to attacks or AC as a swift action that lasts for a minute and can be swapped fbetween the two will be quite useful at all levels, especially since you can burn turn attempts to fuel it.

Otherwise look into a spell from your deity to shorten reload times, or a feat to do so. By the way, a Great Crossbow from Races of Stone is 1d12 x3 with an 18-20 crit range and a range of 120ft, so there is already a medieval weapon printed by WoTC that out-guns your gun. Might be worth asking for the DM to use those stats instead.

subject42
2010-07-12, 11:50 AM
I understand that you're fairly restricted in your choices, but it might be worthwhile to suggest the feat "Zen Archery" to your DM. It lets you use your Wisdom instead of Dexterity on ranged attacks.

Optimystik
2010-07-12, 11:52 AM
I understand that you're fairly restricted in your choices, but it might be worthwhile to suggest the feat "Zen Archery" to your DM. It lets you use your Wisdom instead of Dexterity on ranged attacks.

Also, once this is suggested, swap Dex and Wis. You really want the 16 in your casting stat.

Critical
2010-07-12, 11:55 AM
I say, present a homebrew martial discipline for guns(a good one was called Black Rain if I'm not mistaken) for your DM and play a Ruby Knight Vindicator.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-12, 01:15 PM
Also, once this is suggested, swap Dex and Wis. You really want the 16 in your casting stat.
Full disclosure: my stats are 16, 14, 13, 10, 9, 7 with a +1 INT and a -1 CON. I figured that starting as an Aristocrat (forced choice) meant I probably needed a high attack/defense stat even though I planned to go Cleric. Plus, if I stick to buff spells, my WIS shouldn't matter much (bonus spells aside). Or am I missing something?

That said, if I can get "Zen Archery" I could go for heavier armor to make up for the DEX loss. What's the full text on that feat? In the alternative, what book is it from?

subject42
2010-07-12, 01:41 PM
Full disclosure: my stats are 16, 14, 13, 10, 9, 7 with a +1 INT and a -1 CON. I figured that starting as an Aristocrat (forced choice) meant I probably needed a high attack/defense stat even though I planned to go Cleric. Plus, if I stick to buff spells, my WIS shouldn't matter much (bonus spells aside). Or am I missing something?

That said, if I can get "Zen Archery" I could go for heavier armor to make up for the DEX loss. What's the full text on that feat? In the alternative, what book is it from?

I'm away from books at the moment, but Zen archery is from one of the Completes. I think it's Complete Warrior.

As far as why you want to boost your Wisdom, it's mostly for the long-term. You'll need a casting stat of at least 10 + the spell level, so it should that's always a factor. Additionally, a higher wisdom will grant you more spells per day. More spells is always better.

If you can survive long enough, pick up a monk's belt. It will let you add your Wisdom to your AC, as well.

jiriku
2010-07-12, 02:00 PM
Unfortunately the DM already shot down Rapid Reload but that was due to concerns that these firearms would be "overpowered." I presume that after a few combats he may change his mind :smalltongue:

Tell your DM to register an account here at the playground. If he will post his concerns about the "overpoweredness" of your gun that deals 6 damage once every two rounds, I will personally devote 30 minutes of my time to giving him a detailed explanation of why those gun stats perform obscene acts with barnyard animals.

Seriously. You'd do more damage with a sling. You might be able to do more damage with a slingshot and a wad of used chewing gum.

Optimystik
2010-07-12, 02:01 PM
Tell your DM to register an account here at the playground. If he will post his concerns about the "overpoweredness" of your gun that deals 6 damage once every two rounds, I will personally devote 30 minutes of my time to giving him a detailed explanation of why those gun stats perform obscene acts with barnyard animals.

Must...fight...urge...to sig!

Oracle_Hunter
2010-07-12, 02:43 PM
Tell your DM to register an account here at the playground. If he will post his concerns about the "overpoweredness" of your gun that deals 6 damage once every two rounds, I will personally devote 30 minutes of my time to giving him a detailed explanation of why those gun stats perform obscene acts with barnyard animals.

Seriously. You'd do more damage with a sling. You might be able to do more damage with a slingshot and a wad of used chewing gum.
Well now, let's not completely overlook the fact that, at a 150' range increment, the "musket" is out-ranging a longbow by 50'. And if he registered an account here my super-sneaky plans would be ruined :smalltongue:

Nice quote though :smallbiggrin:

Anyhoo, he's OK'd Zen Archery so I'll need to see if I can scrounge up the cash for Chain Mail rather than a Chain Shirt (or upgrade my Artisan Tools to Masterwork and take Scale Mail instead).

Any thoughts on future feats? I'm figuring Quick Draw at LV 3, but after that I have no ideas.