Lichification questions.

[Scarey Nerd]

Okay, I'm just going to launch into my questions:

1. When it says in the template to change all current and future HDs to d12s, what does that change about the previous HDs?

2. How does a creature become a Lich? I remember hearing something about a ritual of Night, but I can't remember the details.

3. Does a Lich have to be a spellcaster in life, or could a fighter have the transformation performed on them?

[Claudius Maximus]

I'm assuming we're talking 3.5 D&D. If it's another edition, hopefully someone else will stop by and give more relevant information.

1. All your HD become d12s. So if you were a 15th level wizard, now you get to roll 15d12 to determine your new HP total. This can result in either a reduction or an increase.

2. You must make the phylactery and perform some poorly defined and apparently evil things. I think these have been detailed in other editions (something about a potion?) but in 3.5 it's pretty vague as far as I remember.

3. You need to be a spellcaster to lichify. You can not otherwise meet the template's prerequisites. A single classed fighter most likely can't create a phylactery.

[Volthawk]

1) Current includes past HD; it means all HD you have now.

2) It doesn't spell it out, it just says 'unspeakably evil'.

3) Yes. It says 'every lich must make it's own phylactery'

[The-Mage-King]

Okay, I'm just going to launch into my questions:

1. When it says in the template to change all current and future HDs to d12s, what does that change about the previous HDs?

2. How does a creature become a Lich? I remember hearing something about a ritual of Night, but I can't remember the details.

3. Does a Lich have to be a spellcaster in life, or could a fighter have the transformation performed on them?

1: It means increasing HP at each level as though you had retrained into a class with 12 HD- add the difference between the average of your die size and a d12 for each hit die you have.

2: Uh, I think you have to ritually kill yourself. Yeah.

3: They have to make their own phylactry, so... Yeah.

[Saya]

1. What others say

2. I do remember seeing various different rituals for it, most involve killing the caster and slowly transfering his or her soul to the phylactery, in a savage species-esque progression I've read, the transformation occurs over the four levels.

3. In RAW, no, as you need caster 11 to make the phylactery, however, depending on the campaign, you can most likely refluff as needed, provided you are the DM/Talk to the DM about it. Not really sure why you'd want to make a fighter lich though, when there's much better undead fighter type templates out there...

[Thrice Dead Cat]

To be exact on question 3, you must possess a caster level of 12 to make the phylactery. So, a wizard 1/Fighter X with a bunch of caster level boosts could theoretically make one.

[Scarey Nerd]

1. What others say

2. I do remember seeing various different rituals for it, most involve killing the caster and slowly transfering his or her soul to the phylactery, in a savage species-esque progression I've read, the transformation occurs over the four levels.

3. In RAW, no, as you need caster 11 to make the phylactery, however, depending on the campaign, you can most likely refluff as needed, provided you are the DM/Talk to the DM about it. Not really sure why you'd want to make a fighter lich though, when there's much better undead fighter type templates out there...

I'm the DM, I'm asking because I was thinking about a Lich Pirate and wondering whether they would need a spellcasting level dip in order to do it.

[Claudius Maximus]

1: It means increasing HP at each level as though you had retrained into a class with 12 HD- add the difference between the average of your die size and a d12 for each hit die you have.

This isn't the usual way to handle the change, as far as I can tell. If you take averages at each level, it can look similar, but you can certainly lose hp from the process since you lose your constitution modifier.


I'm the DM, I'm asking because I was thinking about a Lich Pirate and wondering whether they would need a spellcasting level dip in order to do it.

By RAW he would need at least a dip and some instances of the Practiced Spellcaster feat, as well as Craft Wondrous Item. He can do it as a Piratey Class 10/Spellcaster 1 if I'm not mistaken.

[The-Mage-King]

This isn't the usual way to handle the change, as far as I can tell. If you take averages at each level, it can look similar, but you can certainly lose hp from the process since you lose your constitution modifier.

I was suggesting it because it's the simplest solution for HP. Though I though that the loosing Con mod wouldn't need to be said...

[Keld Denar]

I'm the DM, I'm asking because I was thinking about a Lich Pirate and wondering whether they would need a spellcasting level dip in order to do it.

You are the DM...just do it? If you want to stay within the rules, have him be a Necropolitan (LM), or any other sort of monster like a Mohrg (which are already fluffed as unrepentant mass murderers...fitting for a pirate).

If you want him to be old and powerful, apply the Evolved Undead template (LM) as many times as you feel is nessicary to get the results you crave.

[mabriss lethe]

Pathfinder srd has a solution. Apply the Graveknight template (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-lists-and-details/-g/graveknight-template). (It's effectively a lich variant aimed toward non-casters)

[Lord Vukodlak]

This isn't the usual way to handle the change, as far as I can tell. If you take averages at each level, it can look similar, but you can certainly lose hp from the process since you lose your constitution modifier.

I recall reading in one book that was the advised way to do it.[maybe Libris Mortis], You increased hp based on the difference in hit dice. [+1 per step/die]

The difference between the average of a d4[2.5] vs the average on a d12[6.5] is 4. So for an 11th level wizard would lose his bonus hit points from constitution but gain 44 for the difference between the average on 11d4 vs 11d12.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm the DM, I'm asking because I was thinking about a Lich Pirate and wondering whether they would need a spellcasting level dip in order to do it.

Is there some specific reason you want him to be a Lich, or would a more appropriate undead work? The reason is that it's not really a Lich if it can't cast spells.

[Morph Bark]

To be exact on question 3, you must possess a caster level of 12 to make the phylactery. So, a wizard 1/Fighter X with a bunch of caster level boosts could theoretically make one.

Wasn't it 11?

[Arutema]

Did the Death Knight template (MMII) ever get updated to 3.5? It seems at least thematically appropriate for an undead pirate. I'm not sure if it's strong enough for your purposes. Unlike Lich, it has no prerequisites.

[Malificus]

Wasn't it 11?

That's what my book says, so barring any errata I don't know, yeah.

[Jergmo]

I'm the DM, I'm asking because I was thinking about a Lich Pirate and wondering whether they would need a spellcasting level dip in order to do it.

Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 1/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster X or 2/Swashbuckler X with Practiced Spellcaster.

For great justice!

Also, if I remember right, the ritual has something to do with sacrificing a newborn and someone about to die of old age, both of your gender, as well as drinking a potion of random things mixed with arsenic to kill yourself while your soul gets put in a Magic Jar/etc. stuff.

[KillianHawkeye]

Did the Death Knight template (MMII) ever get updated to 3.5? It seems at least thematically appropriate for an undead pirate. I'm not sure if it's strong enough for your purposes. Unlike Lich, it has no prerequisites.

WotC released a 3.5 update pdf for MM2. It didn't affect the Death Knight template at all, so it's usable as written. (The update merely notes the change of Sunder to Improved Sunder on the example Death Knight, and reaffirms the preexisting +5 Level Adjustment.)

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Wasn't it 11?

For some reason I thought it was 12, but it looks like I was mistaken.

[NowhereMan583]

Where are y'all getting your information on the ritual?

[hamishspence]

Probably from 2nd ed or earlier. Maybe Ravenloft?

[monkey3]

Sure, a lich looses con bonuses, but if (at a minimum) he is not conducting the ritual at a desecrated site (+2hp/hd) then he clearly rolled a "1" on his know. religion check.

In addition there are other feats/cheese to help with hp, but I don't want to derail.

[Jyokage]

I'm actually rather interested in these cheesey methods of increasing the power of a lich, per chance you could send me a message detailing how to find out about them?:smallbiggrin:

[Jergmo]

I'm actually rather interested in these cheesey methods of increasing the power of a lich, per chance you could send me a message detailing how to find out about them?:smallbiggrin:

You can always go by the logic that with undead-crafting feats such as Corpsecrafter and Nimble Bones, by becoming a lich, you're creating your own undead self. A bit more legit if you cast Magic Jar to operate on your body first, controlling another body to embalm your body.

Those two will give you +4 Str, +2 hp/die, +4 Initiative and +10 to speed. Bolster Resistance is another one, +4 turn resistance...

[IzualDarkwater]

i think necro turns into lich at lvl 20