Broken Druid Build? (and some venting, apparently)

[notabaker]

Ok, so after having our DM repeatedly try to kill us - and succeeding (officially) three times in the last session (long story) - I decided I needed to adjust my strategy. The only problem is, I'm worried that I'm about to break something.

Here's my build (all stats and skills are legal, but I'm leaving off details to avoid the tl;dr dilemma [though I apparently did that at the end anyway]):

Lesser Aasimar Druid 14
STR 10
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 28
CHA 22

HP 97, AC 27 (touch 27, ff 23), DR 3/cold iron, BAB 10/5
FORT 13, REF 10, WILL 18 (+4 vs fey, +1 vs spells, +5 REF vs fire, evasion vs fire)

Main Skills (total modifier given, not ranks)
Concentration 20
Diplomacy 20
Handle Animal 20
Heal 23
Kn (Nature) 20
Listen 14
Spellcraft 20
Spot 16
Survival 18
Use Magic Device 11
Wild Empathy 24

Feats
(House Rule, Bonus Feat) Nymph's Kiss
(1st) Intuitive Attack
(3rd) Zen Archery
(6th) Companion Spellbond
(9th) Steady Concentration
(12th) Natural Bond

Unearthed Arcana rules for Aspect of Nature, instead of traditional Wildshape

Animal Companion
Magebred Warbeast Fleshraker Dinosaur

STR 26
DEX 25
CON 24
INT 2
WIS 16
CHA 12

HP 157, AC 36 (touch 17, ff 29), BAB 9/4
FORT 16, REF 16, WILL 7 (+4 vs enchantment)

AC Feats
Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (Claw), INAtk (Bite), INArmor, Track, Ability Focus (Poison) / Evasion, Share Spells, Devotion, Multiattack

Poison DC 25
Full atk: 2 claws +17 melee (1d6 + 8 + poison) and bite +15 melee (1d8 + 4) and tail +15 melee (1d6 + 4 + poison) // Rake +16 melee (1d6 + 5)
---

So my spell selection is what makes me wonder if I'm straying into broken territory. I tried to make an elemental-themed druid, focused on water: no fire spells, very few earth or wind spells. I was extremely lacking in offensive and utility spells. I'm still keeping the basic theme (which means no flame strike or fire seeds, etc.), but branching out a bit.

Superior Resistance for +6 all saves, all day. Affects my dino until it moves more than 30' away for the first time.

Rain of Roses for evil-only no-save AoE WIS dmg and nauseated.

Baleful Polymorph, for obvious reasons. Save DC 24.

Entangle or Spiritjaws + Vortex of Teeth for trapped and ripped to shreds mooks (though the dmg isn't really all that impressive).

Blizzard + Blood Snow to trap mooks in snow and then slowly drain their CON.

Control Winds, for hurricane-force winds in a 560' radius, with up to an 80' radius eye at the center (tornado if there are already strong winds present).

Save or die (or good as dead) spells:
Swamp Lung, Mummify, Drown


This is probably the big one:
Venomfire for 14 hours (basically all day) for an extra +14d6 acid dmg each time my dino manages to land with his poison ability. This means that on a totally successful full attack, he's doing 30d6+1d8+20 dmg +2d6 DEX dmg, and the target is prone and pinned. Granted, that won't happen all the time, but the high attack bonuses and high poison DC make it somewhat likely. He also gets a tail atk on a separate target for an additional 15d6 + 4 + 1d6 DEX dmg.

Add Animal Growth and Nature's Favor to that and it just gets scary...

So is this reasonable for a druid who never gets into melee or ranged combat?

Here's some context for why I ended up trying all of this:
We're a three-man party, with a Warmage (fire specialist) and a fairly traditional Rogue. We lost our second light melee fighter when the DM threw him overboard on a flying ship, then the player rerolled a Knight that the DM killed with werewolves, bad calls, and broken rules. So that player no longer wants to game with us, nor do we want him back. We almost lost our Warmage to a ridiculous trap (12 unrepairable CON dmg), but then he lost 2 lvls to a vampire.. (well, a CR 15 Half-elf Monk/Shadowdancer Vampire who was accompanied by a CR 14 Horrid Umber Hulk).. the Umber Hulk killed our Rogue in one full attack. Killed them, res'd the rogue, so now we have a lvl 10 warmage, lvl 11 rogue, and my lvl 12 druid with a tiger animal companion (just a tiger, no templates).

We're looking for a safe room to sleep in and the DM drops a lvl 16 Cleric Lich with close to 400,000 gp worth of items, who had been scrying on our last battle so the DM could justify him knowing ALL of our moves... The Warmage cast disintegrate and the lich had a ring of spell turning on and activated, so the warmage killed himself. I had a readied action to cast Baleful Polymorph, not knowing it was a lich, and barely made my own save. The lich had also prepared Anti-life Shell and Entropic shield, so ranged, melee, and touch spells were out, which meant the Rogue was useless and I was nerfed. Also most of my damaging spells are either ice or lightning, so I was unable to damage it. He has 2 more uses of Spell-Turning, an AC of 33, Fire Resistance 30, etc etc... Oh, and he cast slay living on my animal companion, then cast animate dead so I couldn't res it. The DM's solution to us being pissed off was to randomly have the lich teleport away... He thought the battle was entirely reasonable, even though we were almost dead when we started (hey, it was only a CR 22 if you count his gear). He's entirely unequipped to deal with a party of this level and doesn't understand concepts like "We have no tank" and "We're all squishy." I feel like my only solution is to come out guns a'blazin'.

tl;dr:
Wonky GM, unbalanced, tiny party, trying not to die or get thoroughly pissed off with the campaign.

What do you think?

[Mystic Muse]

Have you tried simply talking to the DM?

[notabaker]

Have you tried simply talking to the DM?

Yup. He just gets defensive and says that it's our fault, then throws his hands up and threatens to make someone else DM. We would take him up on that, except we're all fed up with DMing.. The only player who's never done it is currently working on her own campaign, but it's not ready yet. We love the campaign, we're just tired of him trying to outright kill us with challenges we're not equipped for...

[Saph]

So you've got the DM throwing ludicrously overpowered encounters at you, and in return you're building a ludicrously overpowered character to try and beat them.

Yeah, this probably isn't going to end well. Might be amusing to watch, though. Given that the DM thought a CR 22 cleric lich was an appropriate encounter for your previous party, I'd love to know what he's going to come up with as an appropriate encounter for your new character.

[Mystic Muse]

Have you told him what CR 22 means?

[mikej]

Here's my build (all stats and skills are legal, but I'm leaving off details to avoid the tl;dr dilemma [though I apparently did that at the end anyway]):

[Nitpick]


Magebred Warbeast Fleshraker Dinosaur

Magebred can't be applied to the Druid's AC, unless it's certain animals ( Magebred Ghost Tiger ) which are listed in some Eberron book. Unless the DM allowed it. Warbeast is still fine though.

Before you try to make your next character stronger. I suggest you talk with the DM about the overall power-level of encounters. Some DM's don't have a great deal of experience with properly setting up balanced encounters. If however the DM is just out for blood, you're pretty much out of luck. As nothing would matter.

Fleshraker + Venomfire would not only back your DM into a corner but may also upset the other players. Of course the DM would just send out more tougher foes.

Edit: Oh, nevermind.

Your call though.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

So you've got the DM throwing ludicrously overpowered encounters at you, and in return you're building a ludicrously overpowered character to try and beat them.

Yeah, this probably isn't going to end well. Might be amusing to watch, though. Given that the DM thought a CR 22 cleric lich was an appropriate encounter for your previous party, I'd love to know what he's going to come up with as an "appropriate encounter" for your new character.

Fixed that for you. Seriously, notabaker, talking to the DM is the best option. Since you'v already tried that, and it doesn't seem to be working, having the entire party pull out all stops on the optimization seems like the best option you have. Arms races are always fun for the people on the sidelines. Honestly, I'd say just try to survive until the other player's campaign is ready, then switch to that.

[notabaker]

@Saph: Pretty much. I'm not seeing any alternatives.

@Kyuubi: Trying...

@mikej: There are also inconsistencies about Magebred animals, particularly in supplements. It fits the world and the DM's aware of my choice - he's my roommate. As far as upsetting other players, the Warmage is so cheesy he can cast a spell that does 170 fire dmg on a touch attack, no save, no SR. Repeatedly. So they're kind of already used to that, but one such person isn't enough for what's being thrown at us. But I do see your point about backing the DM into a corner.

@ToySoldierCPlus: That's kind of what I was thinking. I'm trying to steer him toward challenging encounter options that won't be full of "Save or Die" on either side. Hopefully it will get a little better.

[jiriku]

So, do you have my old DM?


Because really, the grossly over-CR'd encounters, the bad rules calls, the hits below the belt, the obvious metagaming...I'm having a trip down memory lane here.


My take is this: the DM's view of the world is that combat is highly lethal and that even the mightiest of heroes can be slain in just a few hits. That is a not unreasonable approach, although his execution is poor. You guys have probably contributed to that view by one-shotting boss monsters left and right along the way. Fact: he's probably not going to change, so you must adapt to the gaming environment.

You guys are all playing glass cannons, to judge from the fact that when spell turning is introduced you're all one-shotting yourselves. Offhand I'd say your characters are unbalanced: all O and no D. Fix it. Fix it good. Again: you don't need more guns. This is rocket tag, and you already have plenty of rockets. You need rocket-proof armor.

Everybody needs spell resistance. Everybody needs another +3 or +4 AC. Everybody needs another +3 or +4 saves. Everybody needs another 50-100 hit points, so grab all the Con boosters and temporary hit points you can get. Everybody needs immunity to as many attack forms as you can get immune to (e.g. energy, poison, disease, death magics). Conveniently, a cleric can do all these things. I'd suggest somebody take the Leadership feat (ideally not you, since you already have a companion) and bring in a buff-bot cleric double-quick. You might consider having the other fellow take leadership and bring in a bard, for even more bonuses.

For you personally...lern2wildshape. Your hit points, saves, and AC are all too low to survive the kind of threats you're facing right now. Dire lion form + bite of the wereboar/weretiger + animal growth will boost all three to acceptable levels. You need Natural Spell the way plants need sunlight. If you can, retrain your janky Zen Archery to get it, and retrain Intuitive attack for Rapid Wildshape, then cast healthful rest on yourself...then you can shift forms as a move action to restore 24 hp, while still having your standard action free to cast spells.

Ultimately, fierce offense is necessary at high levels, but when you're badly outgunned, you need to learn how to take some heavy hits and not fall down. You can't win initiative on every fight, so you've got to be able to take a severe beating and come back for more.

[Another_Poet]

I say go for it and don't look back.

Bear in mind the Rogue is going to be left in the dust though. Might tell that guy to upgrade to a more optimized character after the DM kills him by accident with a Bag of Tricks full of Psionic Tarraques in an attempt to beat down your animal companion.

ap

[Lhurgyof]

Might tell that guy to upgrade to a more optimized character after the DM kills him by accident with a Bag of Tricks full of Psionic Tarraques in an attempt to beat down your animal companion.

Lol, oh wow. What a horrid idea. xD

I like the Druid idea, though but try to keep a really high defense going as well.

And make sure to spend as much of your WBL as you can on slaves, torchbearers, and hired hands; All disguised as you. That way you can have an army wherever you go, and then you can really catch him in his meta-gaming fiat. Plus, you can never have too many torchbearers. xD

[notabaker]

Everybody needs spell resistance. Everybody needs another +3 or 4 AC. Everybody needs another +3 or 4 saves. Everybody needs all the Con boosters and temporary hit points you can get. Everybody needs immunity to as many attack forms as you can get immune to (e.g. energy, poison, disease, death magics). Conveniently, a cleric can do all these things. I'd suggest somebody take the Leadership feat (ideally not you, since you already have a companion) and bring in a buff-bot cleric double-quick. You might consider having the other fellow take leadership and bring in a bard, for even more bonuses.

For you personally...lern2wildshape. Your hit points, saves, and AC are all too low to survive the kind of threats you're facing right now. Dire lion form + bite of the wereboar/weretiger + animal growth will boost all three to acceptable levels. If you can, retrain your janky Zen Archery for Rapid Wildshape, and cast healthful rest on yourself...then you can shift forms as a move action to restore 24 hp, while still having your standard action free to cast spells.

I'm not really sure how to achieve a lot of these things. Leadership isn't an option, per the DM, so we have to make do with what we have. We have a really, really hard time getting him to allow us beneficial magic items, which makes SR hard to come by. We've all got the highest save bonuses we can afford, and our light and quick character builds make it hard to acquire AC.

I've got Zen Archery so I can stand a chance at hitting things with my ranged spells. My other alternative is to turn into a complete buff machine.. That may turn out to be my only real option, but I still can't really protect the party from everything very effectively.

I'm trying everything I can to avoid having to true wildshape. I really don't enjoy it. Weird, I know, but I just feel that druids have more to offer than brute force. They already have an AC and Summon Nature's Ally for that.

[sofawall]

animal growth

Not that one.

[Wings of Peace]

-I feel like my only solution is to come out guns a'blazin'.



That's not a gun, THIS IS A GUN:

Race: Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold [Evil (Purchased via ritual)]

Class(es):Wizard 3/Tainted Scholar 2/Incantatrix 10/Halruuan Elder 4/Loremaster 1

:smallcool:

On a more serious side of things try taking prestige ranger and Sword of the Arcane Order though if you want more spell variety.

[Gorgondantess]

Meh, shouldn't be a problem. I stopped reading at using aspect of nature instead of wildshape: in general, that's a bad move.
Then again, if you're using venomfire, I suppose it's not all bad... I'd say try to boost your fleshraker's will save. If your DM metagames so much, expect this guy to be hit with a lot of will save-or-loses. Or, better yet, a ray of stupidity.
As for your druid, what really matters is the spell selection. Doesn't matter how broken your chassis gets, as a fullcaster, spell selection is paramount- you want to be batman with a nature theme.

Meanwhile, direct your rogue friend to ToB and the swordsage, and your warmage friend to Logicninja's Batman Wizard guide. Two tier 4 classes in a game where the DM is pulling out all the shots? Really, really now.
@Jikiru: You can never have too many rockets. If fire doesn't do the trick, the answer is always, always more fire.:smallbiggrin:

[notabaker]

Bear in mind the Rogue is going to be left in the dust though.

Good point. She already is, for most purposes. The DM seems to think she only exists to find and disable traps, because they're EVERYWHERE, RELENTLESSLY, and they're all deadly. All of them. So I think she's actually happy to sit back a little when the battles come. Though she likes to sneak attack (obviously) and we have to CONSTANTLY point to the rules that flanking grants sneak attacks. He seems to think this is still AD&D and that rogues can only sneak attack if they're "sneaking."

@Lhurgyof: Just like Leadership, hired hands/slaves aren't allowed.

[notabaker]

@sofawall: Why not animal growth?

@Wings of Peace: I'm not familiar with either of those classes. The only thing I really need with spellcasting is oodles of buffs. Are those better options?

@Gorgondantess: Eh, I've played a normal druid before and I just never end up wild shaping. I thought I would swap it for something I was more likely to use - and I do. I'll pass on the advice about the swordsage to the Rogue. She needs something to make her sturdier, definitely.

[Arillius]

Do all the players feel this way? If so simply tell him that you guys aren't having fun and he should stop throwing stuff at you he should know you can't handle. If he doesn't listen, I suggest simply walking away for a session or two, show him how little fun your actually having.

[Prodan]

What do you think?

Con should be your second highest score.

[Wings of Peace]

Good point. She already is, for most purposes. The DM seems to think she only exists to find and disable traps, because they're EVERYWHERE, RELENTLESSLY, and they're all deadly. All of them. So I think she's actually happy to sit back a little when the battles come. Though she likes to sneak attack (obviously) and we have to CONSTANTLY point to the rules that flanking grants sneak attacks. He seems to think this is still AD&D and that rogues can only sneak attack if they're "sneaking."

@Lhurgyof: Just like Leadership, hired hands/slaves aren't allowed.

No way man, get Polymorph any Object and turn that rogue into a tank :smallsmile:

[notabaker]

Con should be your second highest score.

The stats are already fixed. I'm not building a new character, I'm just refocusing the one I already had now that we've double-leveled and I'm forced to pick a new AC.

@Arillius: We're about one more terrible session away from that.

[Prodan]

Venomfire.

[Mystic Muse]

No way man, get Polymorph any Object and turn that rogue into a tank :smallsmile:

Take this advice literally instead of figuratively.:smallbiggrin:

[mikej]

Venomfire.

Already covered.

[Arillius]

@Arillius: We're about one more terrible session away from that.

I would suggest pulling him aside before things blow up. If alll of you are angry and caught up in the situation then you might say things that makes being in a campaign with the DM.... awkward at the least, perhaps impossible.

[notabaker]

I would suggest pulling him aside before things blow up. If alll of you are angry and caught up in the situation then you might say things that makes being in a campaign with the DM.... awkward at the least, perhaps impossible.

Well, if things get to that point, I'll just go back to DMing. At least I actually know the rules. I just hate it - I love being a player (usually) and when I DM, I tend to go overboard with planning because I specifically come up with ideas to implement when the PCs (inevitably) derail the main plot. That way I'm still improvising, just not in the dark. He's got no job and no summer classes, unlike me, so in theory he should have infinite time to plan, as opposed to the four hours before gaming sessions. I'm just resisting because I have too much else on my plate most of the time. :smallfrown:

[sofawall]

@sofawall: Why not animal growth?

Not legal.

[Lhurgyof]

Good point. She already is, for most purposes. The DM seems to think she only exists to find and disable traps, because they're EVERYWHERE, RELENTLESSLY, and they're all deadly. All of them. So I think she's actually happy to sit back a little when the battles come. Though she likes to sneak attack (obviously) and we have to CONSTANTLY point to the rules that flanking grants sneak attacks. He seems to think this is still AD&D and that rogues can only sneak attack if they're "sneaking."

@Lhurgyof: Just like Leadership, hired hands/slaves aren't allowed.

Ahh, poo. Keeping a mapmaker, torchbearer, etc. etc. around to make it take hours to get into combat, another 20 minutes to roll and calculate initiative, and an hour for your turn alone would probably get the point across.

And since he's being so *******ish about magic and magic items, try buying miscellaneous items out of the Arms and Equipment guide or Oriental Adventures. Dastana and Cahariana can help boost AC if all three have low magic upgrades.
Marbles are fun! They're like Caltrops 2.0, and your DM will get pretty pissed if all his monster can't ever stand up. Better yet, combine Marbles with Caltrops, but make sure not to let him see the full rules on marbles until his monster epic fails on them. xD
Glass cutters, bolt cutters, burglar's kit and etc. for out of combat awesomeness.
As for your supreme cheese? You're a full caster, get different offensive/defensive spells to cover the board, throw on a few buffs, some extra spells for utility and voila! You have the anti-DM.

Another thing to do with your WBL: Since he isn't letting you buy very many magic items, hows about buying some spells from other casters? Buy permanent stuff, since it's in the PHB.

You're best option here is to get a defense ready for anything, so that the only way to really out right kill the party with some bull**** like that is more than certainly meta gaming and DM bull****, and call him on it.

[Grommen]

Just to state clearly for the record. I would ban that character so hard, the next dozen characters you thought of would be banned even before you put them on paper. :smallbiggrin:

However if your DM is tossing spell turning undead clerics at you wile your resting (dam man that is just low) I say transform into the Dinobot and roll.

Your gonna get one night out of it. If that, and he will A: kill it with a Tarasq, or B: quit playing.

I got one serrious question though. How did you get a 28 Wisdom? That is higher than some gods... Your only 14th level, for the love of them all.

[mikej]

I got one serious question though. How did you get a 28 Wisdom? That is higher than some gods... Your only 14th level, for the love of them all.

Not really hard. I had higher the last time I played a Druid.

Between leveling, the race, items, it's possible at that level. Owl's Insight ( SpC ) would add 1/2 CL Insight bonus on Wisdom. Soo 35 Wisdom with little trouble.

[notabaker]

Just to state clearly for the record. I would ban that character so hard, the next dozen characters you thought of would be banned even before you put them on paper. :smallbiggrin:

Lol, mean. I don't use her as a broken element, really. She adheres to her alignment, which means only interfering when the balance is in danger of being tipped. I didn't use the tiger as a meat shield, really, either. That's part of why I can't figure out why the DM was so hateful to him. Poor kitty.


Your gonna get one night out of it. If that, and he will A: kill it with a Tarasq, or B: quit playing.

Thankfully, I don't think he knows what a Tarasq is.


I got one serrious question though. How did you get a 28 Wisdom? That is higher than some gods... Your only 14th level, for the love of them all.

Base WIS 18, +2 for race = 20. +6 from items (Periapt +4 enhancement, special DM-created item +2 sacred) = 26. +2 from levels = 28.

[Psyx]

"Ok, so after having our DM repeatedly try to kill us - and succeeding (officially) three times in the last session (long story) - I decided I needed to adjust my strategy."


If the GM wants to kill your character, they always can. They can drop an infinite supply of pianos on you at any time. There really is no point in escalating an arms race. Talk to the GM and tell him that his game is no fun and that if he wants to GM in a 'me v you' style, can you at least play backgammon instead, where you have a reasonable chance of winning instead of nil.


Killing a party once is an accident.
Twice might be the party's fault.
But three times in one session is indicative of a poor GM, and blaming the players doesn't cut any ice. If the players are 'too stupid' in the eyes of the GM, then the GM needs to make the scenarios suitable for 'more stupid' players...

tl;dr: It's the GM's fault, and only they can fix it.

[Cthulu]

I take it this is 4th ed right? even so arn't their caps on how high stats go still?

[2xMachina]

3.5 could achieve the same, though it's a bit hard to do so for more than 1 stat.

Could be the wildshape adding the physical stat though.

[Mystic Muse]

I take it this is 4th ed right? even so arn't their caps on how high stats go still?

No, this is 3.5. There's absolutely no way to reach a wisdom of 28 by 12th level in 4th edition as far as I'm aware. Also, there's no such thing as CR in 4th edition.

[Tytalus]

I'm not really sure how to achieve a lot of these things. Leadership isn't an option, per the DM, so we have to make do with what we have. We have a really, really hard time getting him to allow us beneficial magic items, which makes SR hard to come by. We've all got the highest save bonuses we can afford, and our light and quick character builds make it hard to acquire AC.


Dragon Wildshape [Draconomicon] can get you all of that and more. It's a simple feat if you can use it (and if the Aspect of Nature variant is optional).

Steel Dragon for excellent spell resistance, Pyroclastic Dragon for disintegrating breath, etc. Most dragons forms offer an excellent Natural Armor bonus, one or more immunities and inherent mobility (fly, swim or burrow speed).

Slap on a Monk's Belt (plus Wilding Clasp) if you don't already have one and grab Natural Spell for crying out loud!

I would steer away from cheese, but that's a personal preference. Venomfire, templated animal companions, etc. push things too far, especially considering the rest of the party isn't optimized or Tier 1. Fleshraker is borderline IMHO; I'd avoid it, too. The Elemental Companion ACF is not very strong, but quite good in terms of staying power and utility (choose Air for maneuverability). Also less obtrusive.



I've got Zen Archery so I can stand a chance at hitting things with my ranged spells. My other alternative is to turn into a complete buff machine.. That may turn out to be my only real option, but I still can't really protect the party from everything very effectively.


From my experience with playing druids, there are so many excellent spells that don't require attack rolls that Zen Archery is not needed at all.

Buffing can be very effective and can actually help the other members of the party not feel completely useless next to an optimized Tier 1 build.

Plus, with Companion Spellbond, you can share those nifty druid buffs (Bite of the X, etc.) with your companion and make him both more durable and more dangerous. I see you are already doing that with Superior Resistance. Clever.



I'm trying everything I can to avoid having to true wildshape. I really don't enjoy it. Weird, I know, but I just feel that druids have more to offer than brute force. They already have an AC and Summon Nature's Ally for that.

I dislike traditional wildshape as well. Dragon wildshape, on the other hand, is, IMHO, much more flavorful - and more on the defensive side, too.

[Grommen]

Lol, mean. I don't use her as a broken element, really. She adheres to her alignment, which means only interfering when the balance is in danger of being tipped. I didn't use the tiger as a meat shield, really, either. That's part of why I can't figure out why the DM was so hateful to him. Poor kitty.



Thankfully, I don't think he knows what a Tarasq is.



Base WIS 18, +2 for race = 20. +6 from items (Periapt +4 enhancement, special DM-created item +2 sacred) = 26. +2 from levels = 28.

Ok I didn't see the with magic and stuff part. Kool.... So it's a 22 base with buffs. That makes more sense.

[notabaker]

I take it this is 4th ed right? even so arn't their caps on how high stats go still?

Nope, 3.5. I despise 4e.

[Mystic Muse]

Just make sure you don't make any edition war threads.

[notabaker]

Just make sure you don't make any edition war threads.

Lol heaven forbid. Yes, no edition war, was just stating my opinion. >.<

[faceroll]

I'm trying everything I can to avoid having to true wildshape. I really don't enjoy it. Weird, I know, but I just feel that druids have more to offer than brute force. They already have an AC and Summon Nature's Ally for that.

Wildshape buffs the heck out of your fort save, which is very important to buff.

You could always go with aberrant wildshape and assume supernatural ability to turn into a beholder and pew-pew with eyestalks for 14 hours a day.


No way man, get Polymorph any Object and turn that rogue into a tank :smallsmile:

Literally or figuratively?

[Mystic Muse]

Lol heaven forbid. Yes, no edition war, was just stating my opinion. >.<

Just making sure. We have enough of those already.


Literally or figuratively?

I say literally:smallbiggrin:

[notabaker]

Wildshape buffs the heck out of your fort save, which is very important to buff.

You could always go with aberrant wildshape and assume supernatural ability to turn into a beholder and pew-pew with eyestalks for 14 hours a day.

These are nice comments in theory, but I'm extremely limited as to what I can do at this point. With the DnD retraining rules, I can switch from Aspect of Nature to normal Wildshape, but then I don't have Natural Spell (didn't need it before) or any of the other Wildshape feats I'd really need to make it useful at this level.

Not looking a gifthorse in the mouth, as I'm taking this all under consideration for future druid builds, but I can't put a lot of it into practice at this point. :/

ETA: Also, I'm not sure how turning into a beholder fixes the "I'm afraid of being broken" dilemma.

[faceroll]

These are nice comments in theory, but I'm extremely limited as to what I can do at this point. With the DnD retraining rules, I can switch from Aspect of Nature to normal Wildshape, but then I don't have Natural Spell (didn't need it before) or any of the other Wildshape feats I'd really need to make it useful at this level.

Not looking a gifthorse in the mouth, as I'm taking this all under consideration for future druid builds, but I can't put a lot of it into practice at this point. :/

ETA: Also, I'm not sure how turning into a beholder fixes the "I'm afraid of being broken" dilemma.

There are two 8th level wizard/sorc spells in Fiendish Codex I that, together, allow you to turn a feat into an Abyssal Heritor feat and then turn that Abyssal Heritor feat back into any feat you qualify. Called the Chaos Shuffle, and you can use to turn racial feats into useful ones. You can also retrain feats for 50gp and two weeks downtime, according to DMG2.

The cheapest and fastest way to move feats around, however, would be using the 4th level psionic power Psychic Reformation that allows you to change any number of skills and feats to other skills and feats that you qualify. It costs a trivial amount of xp.

Alternatively, you could use the flaw rules from UA to pick up extra feats, but that requires explicit DM permission past character creation.

[notabaker]

There are two 8th level wizard/sorc spells in Fiendish Codex I that, together, allow you to turn a feat into an Abyssal Heritor feat and then turn that Abyssal Heritor feat back into any feat you qualify. Called the Chaos Shuffle, and you can use to turn racial feats into useful ones. You can also retrain feats for 50gp and two weeks downtime, according to DMG2.

The cheapest and fastest way to move feats around, however, would be using the 4th level psionic power Psychic Reformation that allows you to change any number of skills and feats to other skills and feats that you qualify. It costs a trivial amount of xp.

Alternatively, you could use the flaw rules from UA to pick up extra feats, but that requires explicit DM permission past character creation.

No psionics, no flaws, no downtime (urgent global quest), and we have a REALLY hard time finding 5th lvl wizards/clerics in this world. It's a crapshoot all around.