Dragon Quest IX

[Merk]

I just got this recently, and am enjoying it very much. Has anyone played it already, or planning on getting it?

[Zevox]

Heh, I was just considering making a thread for this myself. Picked the game up yesterday - it quite surprised me that it was actually released in stores on a Sunday, I must say. Being a fan of the series I wouldn't have missed it though.

I don't know that I'm terribly far as yet. Just finished dealing with the whole Wight Knight shebang, current party level is averaging 13. In addition to my hero wielding a whip, I have a Martial Artist wielding claws, a Priest wielding a spear, and a Mage wielding a staff. So far I'm enjoying myself. I'll be interested to see how the skill mechanic functions in conjunction with the class-change mechanic when I get to the point where I have access to that. Also eagerly awaiting the new alchemy pot or equivalent, since there have been plenty of indications that one of those is in this game.

Still, I am annoyed by a couple of things. One being the removal of random encounters. I mean, I like the kind of non-random encounters they implemented too, but this is Dragon Quest. It's the traditional-style JRPG series. Taking random encounters out of it is like giving Link spoken lines in a Zelda game - you just don't do that.

I'm also a bit concerned by the small number of monsters per fight I'm encountering. Except for one occasion where a monster called in help, I've yet to see a monster group larger than 3. Which is making the non-boss battles pretty darn easy, since the monsters haven't been strengthened from the way they usually are in other DQ games. Two or three basic monsters just isn't enough to challenge a party of four even minimally most of the time, and one is a joke. Maybe when I get to the late-game areas the monsters will be tough enough to pull that off - I know the ones you ran into in the post-game areas of DQ8 were that tough - but the early guys just don't cut it.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

Just picked it up last night...

...the semi-random encounters are interesting, as I usually navigate by map and run into monsters somewhat randomly anyway. :smalltongue:

Also: the cutscene at the end of the prologue: WHAT THE ----------

[Jamin]

I have a question can you more than one save file per game?

[Mando Knight]

I have a question can you more than one save file per game?

Want me to answer that, or...

...the big H? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMgnJDXd3k)

[Zevox]

Also: the cutscene at the end of the prologue: WHAT THE ----------
No kidding. They really wanted to throw you for a loop there I suppose. Of course, this being Dragon Quest, I imagine it'll have a simple explanation in the end - the stories in this series never get that complicated.


I have a question can you more than one save file per game?
Just one. For some strange reason recent DS RPGs have been doing that. I know it was the case for Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor and The World Ends With You as well.

Zevox

[Mewtarthio]

Want me to answer that, or...

...the big H? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMgnJDXd3k)

You get nine save files?! :smalleek: How did nobody notice this before?

[Mando Knight]

No kidding. They really wanted to throw you for a loop there I suppose. Of course, this being Dragon Quest, I imagine it'll have a simple explanation in the end - the stories in this series never get that complicated.

No, I mean, I expected the descending bit, but... it almost looked like
Nanoha tried to "befriend" the Observatory from below...

[Zevox]

No, I mean, I expected the descending bit, but... it almost looked like
Nanoha tried to "befriend" the Observatory from below...
I was expecting something to happen too, but not quite that.
Er, don't remember anything that would look like that. And my memory is faulty - who was Nanoha?
Zevox

[Oregano]

Just one. For some strange reason recent DS RPGs have been doing that. I know it was the case for Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor and The World Ends With You as well.

Zevox

Sheer amount of data which has to be saved onto the card means there has to be limit anyway and there's the nice bonus that a family of four who would normally buy one copy of Dragon Quest now has to buy four(and that's part of the reason DQIX is the most successful one).

[Mando Knight]

I was expecting something to happen too, but not quite that.
Er, don't remember anything that would look like that. And my memory is faulty - who was Nanoha?
Zevox

You didn't remember the gigantic pinkish-purple-y lasers a la DIVII-EEEEEN... BUSTAAAAAAAR? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbtwnH6oBU)

[Zevox]

You didn't remember the gigantic pinkish-purple-y lasers a la DIVII-EEEEEN... BUSTAAAAAAAR? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbtwnH6oBU)
I remember the lasers, but I've never seen whatever that is.
So, I've just run into the first really challenging fight of the game. The "Master of Nu'Un." Turns out they're handing out two attacks per round to bosses fairly early in this one - this guy had that, and my average party level is only 16. I used up literally all of the mp of all my characters in that fight - granted, I had used a fair bit on the way there, but I still had decent reserves left for the boss - as well as a bunch of medicinal herbs, and I still only barely won, with one dead party member.

But it looks like I'll now be able to use the class-change feature at least. Guess I should get to work figuring out how exactly that works in this one.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

I accidentally skipped that one and went to the Lleviathan. Unless that's the order you're supposed to do them in. It floored my healer and now I have to restart "way back" (actually maybe 40 minutes of total gameplay) in Coffinwell.

[Mando Knight]

Just finished main story mode. The ending feels a bit... Gainax-y.
The Celestrian becomes mortal in order to defeat the satanic, fallen Corvus (who gets a happy ending as he's redeemed after you defeat him), meaning that the rest of the Celestrians can ascend to the heavens, their duty fulfilled. You stay mortal.

Essentially, you march into Hell for a Heavenly cause, and it all falls away as you've made a happy ending for everyone else... but now you're the sole (still mortal) Guardian of the world, with not even your plucky comic-relief sidekick by your side.

On the other hand, Greygnarl might be alive... a serpentine dragon flew overhead after the citizens of Upover put a dragon-faced keg on the center of the circle in front of his lair...

[Cobalt]

Just finished main story mode. The ending feels a bit... Gainax-y.
The Celestrian becomes mortal in order to defeat the satanic, fallen Corvus (who gets a happy ending as he's redeemed after you defeat him), meaning that the rest of the Celestrians can ascend to the heavens, their duty fulfilled. You stay mortal.

Essentially, you march into Hell for a Heavenly cause, and it all falls away as you've made a happy ending for everyone else... but now you're the sole (still mortal) Guardian of the world, with not even your plucky comic-relief sidekick by your side.

Lame.


On the other hand, Greygnarl might be alive... a serpentine dragon flew overhead after the citizens of Upover put a dragon-faced keg on the center of the circle in front of his lair...

Still lame.

[SKarious]

Yep, very nice game. just started it a few days ago.
Now I have the ability to change classes.
Now, for a question - how do I get my characters to learn "egg-on" or other tension boosting moves? So far, only the MC knows it. I tried raising another minstrel, but she's already level 10 and hasn't learned it.

[FantasyFoxMan]

I'm really loving this game so far. I also like the fact that you can equip armor from other characters in the DQ series in general.

When I'm able to get them, I'm going to make someone dress up like Torneko Taloon, as he is awesome. :3

[Zevox]

Now, for a question - how do I get my characters to learn "egg-on" or other tension boosting moves? So far, only the MC knows it. I tried raising another minstrel, but she's already level 10 and hasn't learned it.
I'm not sure, but I think "Egg On" is a main-character-only ability.

The tension raising ability you'll want on pretty much everyone in your party is Psyche Up, from the Martial Artist's class skill. 16 points in if memory serves.

I'm actually not much further in the game now than when I last posted. Been playing BlazBlue a lot instead. Ah well, I'll get through it slowly but surely if need be.

Zevox

[Oregano]

Got the game now, is awesome so far. Possibly the best JRPG I've played this gen, enjoying a lot more than FFXIII for one.

[Zevox]

Got the game now, is awesome so far. Possibly the best JRPG I've played this gen, enjoying a lot more than FFXIII for one.
Heh, of course it's better than FFXIII - FFXIII doesn't set a very high bar to beat :smalltongue: . I certainly wouldn't call DQIX the best JRPG I've played this gen myself, not after Tales of Vesperia, The World Ends With You, Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor, or Persona 4 (if it counts - it's PS2, but it was released well into this gen time-wise, at the end of 2008). But it is still good.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

Tip for anyone whose Priests, Mages, and such are taking more damage than you'd like: have them skip around as a Paladin for a while. (To unlock it, go to the roof of the Gleeban palace and talk to the gal with the spear. You'll need someone classed as a Warrior to complete the fairly easy Quest related to it)

The Paladin's unique skill set includes the most Resistance boosters in the game. Since Resist is directly tied to your Defense, it'll help a lot when you learn the skills that essentially boost your Resist as much as some of the medium-grade armors. It also has M-Pathy, which is great for passing a Priest or Mage's huge number of MP onto a Warrior or Monk that's trying to spam Propeller Blade or Falcon Slash or some such.

[Setra]

I picked up the game the day it came out, I'm well into the postgame now.

Fun as hell, best RPG I've played in a long time, definitely an excellent game and a worthy addition to the series. Easily my favorite portable RPG ever.

I was playing multiplayer with my mother earlier, she's pretty early on... It was kind of fun to make the game ludicrously easy for her (not that the main game is hard).


Got the game now, is awesome so far. Possibly the best JRPG I've played this gen, enjoying a lot more than FFXIII for one.
Have to agree here, it's easily the most fun RPG I've played this gen. Persona 4 and Lost Odyssey were more.. how to put it.. interesting, but they lacked the sheer fun value I got from this game.

[Mando Knight]

It was kind of fun to make the game ludicrously easy for her (not that the main game is hard).

Amusing: I've been grinding my main character, solo, mind you, against the Wyrm-Island enemies while in the level range of around 20 or so. I'm trashing them easily, as I've got the equipment from the endgame and 20 or so levels in every other class. Sacred Armor (42 Mini Medals) regenerates health so I don't need to bring a Priest, and thanks to Paladin levels and a fairly high-Res class, anything before Wormwood deals mostly scratch damage... without optimizing my Defense further.

[DwarvenExodus]

Falcon Slash

Must... Resist... Urge... To... Pun...

[Mando Knight]

Must... Resist... Urge... To... Pun...

HYES!

FALCON SLASH!

SHOW YA MOVES!

[AtwasAwamps]

I’ve been playing the game mostly during my commute to and from work (so between 1-2 hours a day mostly), but so far, I’m enjoying it more than I have enjoyed an RPG in a long time…possibly since the old SNES days, which is what this game is reminding me of more and more. It’s basic, smooth, and simple to play, with the world’s most annoying sidekick (I’m going to strangle that fairy) and straightforward character building as well. I’m enjoying dipping into classes with similar weapon skills to boost my physical warrior up a notch or three.

A couple of quick questions, though!

My party consists of a Warrior (Main Character)/Martial Artist/Thief/Priest. So far, this team has basically been crushing its way through everything…but the thief seems almost superfluous. She doesn’t do a heavy amount of damage and while she’s very fast, the martial artist pretty much matches her speed. I’ve had her specialize in knives, so there are some interesting moments and it did make it easy to unlock ranger, but I’m still not really impressed with her. I just unlocked ranger…is it worth it? Or if not, is there a class I can give my thief that is?

Also, is there going to be a point at which I wished I had offensive magic? Because right now, almost everything just gets splattered by getting punched in the face.

[Mando Knight]

Well, Big Bad Big Boss's first form falls to fire... I accidentally discovered this by my Warrior's Mirror Plate bouncing his Frizzle back on him. Then I unleashed the power of the Fource (Armamentalist unique skill) and ignited both the main character's and Warrior's swords.

Speaking of which, swords. They're awesome. Falcon Blade (And, if you're willing to sacrifice the +100 Agility Meteorite Bracer for it, Über Falcon Blade) and Miracle Sword (or two in-battle HP-restoring Life Bracers for the Über Miracle Sword) are two fantastic super-awesome weapons.

If you've already got Ranger, you can go ahead and switch your Thief to it. You'll lose all your Knife abilities unless you stick with Warrior, Thief, or Mage, but the Bow is so much better offensively, and you can purchase a 99 power bow. Armamentalists don't get Evac or healing spells like the Ranger or Thief, but they do get both Bows and Swords and a healthy balance of stats, buff/debuff spells, and the Fource. And shields, which can grant a significant block chance and a good amount of defense boost.

Also, try to complete the end after the end as fast as you can.
At Port Llaffan, Jona wants to talk to the real Lleviathan. Get a Flowing Dress, a Watermaul Wand, and a Silver Shield (the last one's expensive, but available at the endgame Stornway Armor shop rather than grinding Moai for Mirrorstones). Beat Real Lleviathan, who's about the same as Dad-viathan, but stronger (will deal 60+ damage to guys Corvus dealt 20-ish to at most).

Your reward? The Fygg you can see falling into the ocean in the end sequence. Eat it, and Stella will be shouting in your flappin' ear. Turns out she was flying in front of your face the whole time, you flappin' cotton-eared mortal! :smallbiggrin: And you get the Starlight Express, which lets you go places you couldn't reach before. And return to the Realm of the Almighty and climb to the very top to talk to Celestria, and she'll let you go to the Realm of the Mighty, in case you want to fight some of the monsters there or something.


tl;dr: I was wrong about Stella and friends staying gone, I searched endlessly for that Fygg. Finally found it when I completed Jona's "Story" Quest. It did exactly what I wanted it to. Yay Fyggs!

[SKarious]

Okay, another question - any tips on how to do the Armamentalist entry quest? My party's about level 19 (Minstrel/Priest/Mage/Warrior), the only metal slimes I can find are in the tomb, and they keep running away before I finish my ward and hit them once. How can I stop them from running?

[Zevox]

War Cry from my Martial Artist sometimes worked for me while doing that. The Minstrel's Pratfall ability is pretty similar, maybe it'll work for you.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

Okay, another question - any tips on how to do the Armamentalist entry quest? My party's about level 19 (Minstrel/Priest/Mage/Warrior), the only metal slimes I can find are in the tomb, and they keep running away before I finish my ward and hit them once. How can I stop them from running?

The one that constructs the Wizard's Ward needs to be the one to kill it. Get one character to learn both Metal Slash and Wizard's Ward, and train a second to also know Metal Slash. Use the Martial Artist's War Cry to shock the Metal Slime if you want, have the WW user construct a barrier, while the other Slasher attacks. Then have everyone but the Martial Artist and the WW user focus on something else, while you double up with a second War Cry and Metal Slash. If you're lucky, you'll have two 2 HP hits, and it's dead. The reason why you only need to kill a few Metal Slimes this way is because getting them to sit still long enough for this is pretty much a luck based mission.


Also: I have the map from GameStop! Took me like three hours (up and down the same road :smallsigh:) of in-city driving to actually find the right GameStop, but at least I got the map.

[chiasaur11]

The one that constructs the Wizard's Ward needs to be the one to kill it. Get one character to learn both Metal Slash and Wizard's Ward, and train a second to also know Metal Slash. Use the Martial Artist's War Cry to shock the Metal Slime if you want, have the WW user construct a barrier, while the other Slasher attacks. Then have everyone but the Martial Artist and the WW user focus on something else, while you double up with a second War Cry and Metal Slash. If you're lucky, you'll have two 2 HP hits, and it's dead. The reason why you only need to kill a few Metal Slimes this way is because getting them to sit still long enough for this is pretty much a luck based mission.


Also: I have the map from GameStop! Took me like three hours (up and down the same road :smallsigh:) of in-city driving to actually find the right GameStop, but at least I got the map.

Yeah.

At least there's that. Is it a nice map?

[Mando Knight]

Haven't delved it yet. Though the 100% chance prize for clearing it is a Mini Medal, so I'd better.

[Oregano]

Just wanted to tell everyone the excellent news!

DQIX debuted at number 9 in the All format charts in the UK, this is ten places higher than DQVIII debuted. DQVIII then dropped off from there but DQIX has done the impossible and actually increased in sales, moving to number 7!(In the individual format chart it's remained at number 4)

Considering DQIX is already the most successful DQ in Japan, DQX was reconfirmed for the Wii and Dragon Quest was listed in the 3DS software list, it seems the franchise might stay on Nintendo systems.

It'll be interesting to see whether Square Enix localises DQVI, DQM: Joker 2 and Battle Road Victory... and, more importantly, what kind of ad support they give the games!

[AtwasAwamps]

Note to self: Almost any game that gives you a ship allows sequence breaking.

Extra note to self: That's why that boss was remotely challenging.

::headdesk:: I am now going backwards to figure out what I missed. I blame the boat!

[Lord Seth]

Haven't played a Dragon Quest game since the second, back when it was called Dragon Warrior. Have they upgraded some things, like removing the turn-based combat or at least giving Action Commands like the Mario RPGs?

[Zevox]

Haven't played a Dragon Quest game since the second, back when it was called Dragon Warrior. Have they upgraded some things, like removing the turn-based combat or at least giving Action Commands like the Mario RPGs?
Thankfully, no. Dragon Quest is a pretty traditional JRPG series - being the series that basically created the JRPG formula, it ought to be - and still features turn-based combat of the same sort as it always did.

It has added other things, like a skill system which gives you special abilities with various weapons (or general class-based skills) based on which skill you put points into as you level up, or the alchemy pot, which lets you mix items together to create new ones. DQ9 in particular also has a class system which allows you to mix up different abilities from among the classes with your characters.

Though honestly, I kinda don't like the way they work that with your party's characters. It still goes the way it did in 3, with you creating your companions at a tavern, and consequently them being blank characters with no role in the story, no dialogue, etc - and since Dragon Quest already has the main character as a silent hero type, that makes things much less interesting on the protagonist end of the story. I wish they would give us a game with both the class system and party characters who fit into the story and have actual personalities.

Zevox

[Lord Seth]

Thankfully, no. Dragon Quest is a pretty traditional JRPG series - being the series that basically created the JRPG formula, it ought to be - and still features turn-based combat of the same sort as it always did.Almost certainly won't be getting it then. Outside of Pokemon, I think turn-based combat in RPGs is a trope that needs to die.

EDIT: Turn-based combat with action commands is acceptable though. Like I said, the Mario RPGs use this to great effect.

[Zevox]

Almost certainly won't be getting it then. Outside of Pokemon, I think turn-based combat in RPGs is a trope that needs to die.

EDIT: Turn-based combat with action commands is acceptable though. Like I said, the Mario RPGs use this to great effect.
We'll just have to disagree on that one, as I very much so like turn-based combat in RPGs. Heck, while I like action RPGs too, if you forced me to choose between turn-based and action combat, I'd take turn-based. If Dragon Quest, the traditional-style JRPG series, ever stopped doing turn-based combat, I'd be pretty ticked - if you check the second post in this thread, I'm annoyed just at the removal of random encounters in DQ9 as-is.

Zevox

[Lord Seth]

I think that may have been the first time I've ever seen someone say they liked random encounters.

I don't inherently hate turn-based combat. Just do something so that it doesn't amount to "select option, select attack, repeat for every party member, then wait for the enemy to attack before doing it again." Which is, again, why I love the Mario RPGs due to their action commands that spice things up. But ah well, I've probably derailed the topic...

EDIT: To clarify, I'm referring to turn-based combat in RPGs, not turn-based combat in general (it works well in strategy games, for example)

[Zevox]

I think that may have been the first time I've ever seen someone say they liked random encounters.
You haven't talked to the right people, then. I don't know why some people don't like them, but I do, and I know others who do. I like non-random encounters too, but as I said in that post at the beginning of the thread, for a series like Dragon Quest, taking out random encounters is like giving Link spoken lines in a Zelda game - you just don't do that.


I don't inherently hate turn-based combat. Just do something so that it doesn't amount to "select option, select attack, repeat for every party member, then wait for the enemy to attack before doing it again." Which is, again, why I love the Mario RPGs due to their action commands that spice things up. But ah well, I've probably derailed the topic...
If the game is well-made, picking between your various options in combat should provide plenty of fun. Certainly it does for me. Many of my favorite games ever are turn-based RPGs - Persona 3 and 4, for example.

Zevox

[Setra]

I'm annoyed just at the removal of random encounters in DQ9 as-is.

Zevox
At the very least, the monsters appearing on the screen are still random, and not fixed encounters like in, for example, Chrono Trigger. Still, I would have preferred real random encounters as well.

[Lord Seth]

You haven't talked to the right people, then. I don't know why some people don't like them,I'll explain then. The reason I and many others hate random encounters is that they're annoying and break up the gameplay. Exploring or trying to solve a puzzle is constantly interrupted by repetitive battles. What works so well about pre-existing encounters is 1) You can generally avoid them if you want and 2) Once you clear a room or area out you can explore it in peace without continuing to get attacked so often.

Granted, there usually is some kind of repel item, but it means not only do you have to buy or use up an item just so you aren't interrupted every half a minute, you also won't be getting the battles necessary to build up experience. Which again is why pre-existing encounters are good: You can fight, get the requisite experience (and gold), and then explore in peace.

Basically, outside of being more annoying, there's really not anything random encounters will give you that pre-existing encounters won't. The annoyance of random encounters is why they're such a scarcity nowadays and likely the reason Dragon Quest is moving away from them.


I like non-random encounters too, but as I said in that post at the beginning of the thread, for a series like Dragon Quest, taking out random encounters is like giving Link spoken lines in a Zelda game - you just don't do that.I find that a false analogy for several reasons. First off, the removal of random encounters is a gameplay change, not a character or story change like Link talking would be. Secondly, I think Link talking actually might work if it were pulled off well (though you'd need a good voice actor and dialogue better than "Excuse me princess!") though it would be tough to do it right.

Another problem is that a "heroic mime" doesn't provide the same kind of aggravation random encounters do, and--at least in my experience with the series--they're not a "core" part of the series in the same way Link's lack of talking is.

[Zevox]

I'll explain then. The reason I and many others hate random encounters is that they're annoying and break up the gameplay. Exploring or trying to solve a puzzle is constantly interrupted by repetitive battles.
"Break up the gameplay?" They are the gameplay. And that's kind of the point - exploring for treasure, puzzle-solving, etc carries a risk with it, since you can never be sure how many fights you'll have to go through to get through it. It also forces better resource management with hp, mp, and items since you can't simply avoid fights, and the "run" option often fails frequently.

And, well, we'll just have to disagree about the "annoying" part.


I find that a false analogy for several reasons. First off, the removal of random encounters is a gameplay change, not a character or story change like Link talking would be. Secondly, I think Link talking actually might work if it were pulled off well (though you'd need a good voice actor and dialogue better than "Excuse me princess!") though it would be tough to do it right.

Another problem is that a "heroic mime" doesn't provide the same kind of aggravation random encounters do, and--at least in my experience with the series--they're not a "core" part of the series in the same way Link's lack of talking is.
The point is that it's a very traditional part of a very traditional series. Dragon Quest was the series that defined JRPGs, and it's always stuck to the basic formula that was present in the first game, only adding new things, never taking away the basics. Until 9.

Zevox

[AtwasAwamps]

And, well, we'll just have to disagree about the "annoying" part.



The whole argument is rather silly. It's purely opinion. There's no "wrong" or "right" here. Some people find it annoying, others find it more fun. While I myself fall into the second category, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of DQIX than it did my enjoyment of Chrono Trigger.

[HamHam]

Been playing this. Slight problem: Bosses keep killing me.

Party: Minstrel, Martial Artist, Cleric, Mage

All like level 19.

I'm fighting the gargoyle on top of the mountain with all the statues right now.

[Cute_Riolu]

Been playing this. Slight problem: Bosses keep killing me.

Party: Minstrel, Martial Artist, Cleric, Mage

All like level 19.

I'm fighting the gargoyle on top of the mountain with all the statues right now.

Ooh, yeah, he's a toughy. I managed to get lucky with my coups and take him out pretty quickly.

[Zevox]

The whole argument is rather silly. It's purely opinion. There's no "wrong" or "right" here.
I'm pretty sure we're both well aware of that, thank you.


Been playing this. Slight problem: Bosses keep killing me.

Party: Minstrel, Martial Artist, Cleric, Mage

All like level 19.

I'm fighting the gargoyle on top of the mountain with all the statues right now.
Hey, that's the same party I have, and not too far from where I am. You're a few levels below where I was when I did that fight though - I was 21-22 with everyone at that point. Fought it mostly by using egg on from my main character + psyche up from the Martial Artist to bolster her tension to 50 or 100 (depending on whether I got lucky on the last) and hitting it with propeller blade (or normal attack once mp ran out). Mage cast accelerate, sap, and crack; Cleric mostly healed, did some psyching up or cast buff when not healing. Occasionally I had to have my main character help with the healing instead of egg on, and she used psyche up herself in the rounds when the Martial Artist attacked.

Yeah, part of the reason I was higher level is because I had everyone but my mage spend enough time as a Martial Artist to learn psyche up once I got the option to do class changes. Would have with the mage too, but she spent time as a thief to learn dragon slash and metal slash for quest purposes, and is already a level behind the others, so I don't want to imbalance her relative to the rest of the party any more than she already is.

Zevox

[HamHam]

I still can't change classes. Did I miss something?

[Zevox]

I still can't change classes. Did I miss something?
Er, yes, definitely. Alltrades Abbey? Was just a very short distance to the east of the tree you set down by on that island? Should've been all but impossible to miss. :smallconfused:

Zevox

[HamHam]

Er, yes, definitely. Alltrades Abbey? Was just a very short distance to the east of the tree you set down by on that island? Should've been all but impossible to miss. :smallconfused:

Zevox

But the abbot guy isn't there so they can't change my class.

[Zevox]

But the abbot guy isn't there so they can't change my class.
...and you didn't go poking around to find out why he isn't there?

Zevox

[HamHam]

...and you didn't go poking around to find out why he isn't there?

Zevox

I didn't find anything so I just kind of kept going. :P

[Zevox]

I didn't find anything so I just kind of kept going. :P
Well, go back. It's kind of important. And not just for the class changing feature.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

Been playing this. Slight problem: Bosses keep killing me.

Party: Minstrel, Martial Artist, Cleric, Mage

All like level 19.

I'm fighting the gargoyle on top of the mountain with all the statues right now.
You've got a super-fragile team going here. The Priest helps some, but when the Minstrel is the best tank, there's something wrong. Unless the Minstrel took Paladin and/or Warrior levels, which you obviously haven't.

Well, go back. It's kind of important. And not just for the class changing feature.

Zevox
It's mostly important for the continuation of the puntastic theme they've got going. You'll get it soon enough.

Oh, wait. You'll also want to ask around. There might be something about a delicious wish-giving fruit or some such...:smallamused:

[Kris Strife]

Saddest part of the game so far:
Marion and Marionette. :smallfrown:

[Zevox]

You've got a super-fragile team going here. The Priest helps some, but when the Minstrel is the best tank, there's something wrong. Unless the Minstrel took Paladin and/or Warrior levels, which you obviously haven't.
I'm doing fine with it myself. The Cleric has good defense, and between her and the Minstrel the party has plenty of healing, and the Martial Artist and Mage provide plenty of offensive power. Non-boss battles are proving no real challenge at all, and the bosses so far have been doable, if tough.

Zevox

[AtwasAwamps]

Saddest part of the game so far:
Marion and Marionette. :smallfrown:

Agreed. I got all teary eyed. On the NYC subway. Wheee.

[Lord Seth]

"Break up the gameplay?" They are the gameplay.If you're referring to the fights, yes, the fights are part of the gameplay. In an RPG, there are generally two parts of the gameplay: Combat and exploration (let's lump "puzzle-solving" into the exploration). The two are pretty distinct from one another. The problem with random encounters is that it's constantly breaking up the exploration gameplay. You're working on a puzzle or exploring? Suddenly the gameplay pretty much pauses while you have to fight your way through a usually pretty repetitive battle.

Let's take an analogy: Sonic Unleashed, which was known for having two distinct styles of gameplay: The more traditional day levels, and the God of War-esque night levels. Now I didn't like that game (the night stages were boring and I found even the day stages to feel like inferior versions of previous Sonic 3D stages), but it had a good way of giving the player control of the two different gameplay styles. There were clear points in which one ended and another began. The game didn't switch them on you at random, like have you running through a day level and then at completely random intervals switch you to a night level for a short amount of time or vice versa (or at least it didn't do that up until the point where I got tired of the game and stopped playing it). Both day and night levels are part of the gameplay, and if they're switched at random with no control at all from the player, it breaks flow and is just plain annoying. Not to say the night levels don't break the flow of the game (playing through them just makes you yearn for the day levels) but they don't do it randomly. The style of control in when to switch works great; the problem with this game is that one of the gameplay styles isn't that good.

What works with pre-existing encounters is that you have more control over when the gameplay is broken up. Obviously, there are times when a monster just runs into you, but you still get a good amount of control. So you can go through an area and take out the monsters as you go, in control of when the gameplay shifts, and once they're defeated you can explore as you want without constantly getting interrupted. The ability to control to a certain extent when the exploration ends and when the fighting begins rather than it being completely random makes both aspects better.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying players should have absolute complete control over the gameplay switches; I'm just saying they shouldn't be completely random. You may have been forced to play through the night levels in Sonic Unleashed, but you had a certain level of choice as to when you did it and even when the game forced you to do it at certain points (there's a late level where you have to switch several times throughout the level), they're at set points rather than random ones.

As an RPG example of how to provide the player with control, note The World Ends With You. Outside of predetermined battles such as bosses, you get to decide when to fight, with only a few exceptions. For example, the Taboo Noise attack you on sight, though you still have the option of either ending the scanning quickly before they get to you or not initiating the scan at all; thus, you still retain control. Later in the game you have a chance of having Reapers appear and attack you whenever you leave an area, but it only happens at those particular points and is only in the last part of the game rather than the whole thing, so again you have a degree of control. Random encounters remove that level of control from you, causing exploration gameplay to be interrupted by fighting gameplay suddenly and at random without any level of control from the player.

Another RPG example is, as noted before, pretty much any Mario RPG ever made, but let's take The Thousand-Year Door. There are enemies you can choose to fight or just avoid if you want to (though of course even while trying to avoid them there's a chance one will hit you). The enemies don't randomly pop up and change the gameplay, you again have a level of control over it.

Not to say enemies showing up randomly necessarily breaks things up; after all, in NetHack, enemies do randomly appear. But NetHack doesn't pause one form of gameplay and go to another when that happens, it stays with the dungeon crawl. As "pure" RPGs do switch the gameplay in battle, it's important to give the player some control over it so that they're not constantly aggravated by the interruption. I say "pure" because hybrid genres can avert this, like Fire Emblem (RPG/Strategy hybrid) or Super Paper Mario (RPG/Platformer hybrid). If you're going to have two very different styles of gameplay in a game, it shouldn't be switching between the two at random without any level of control, as that breaks up the flow of both.

And that's why I don't like random encounters, with the possible exception of Pokemon. If you for whatever reason like the sudden and random gameplay shifts, go ahead. But this is the reason why I and a lot of other people hate random encounters so much, as well as the reason developers have been moving away from it. Randomly changing gameplay style with no level of control from the player is frequently annoying and breaks up the game's flow, like if I'm reading a book and the book will at random points close and refuse to open until I watch a video for a short amount of time.

...wow. I had no idea I'd write for so long when I started. I intended this to be a short message to close out the debate with. But again, that's my perspective. Now I'll try to leave you guys alone so you can discuss the actual game.

[Zevox]

If you're referring to the fights, yes, the fights are part of the gameplay. In an RPG, there are generally two parts of the gameplay: Combat and exploration (let's lump "puzzle-solving" into the exploration). The two are pretty distinct from one another. The problem with random encounters is that it's constantly breaking up the exploration gameplay. You're working on a puzzle or exploring? Suddenly the gameplay pretty much pauses while you have to fight your way through a usually pretty repetitive battle.
...but again, that's kind of the point. Exploration and combat are intermingled aspects of most RPGs - the combat provides a danger element to the exploration. And random encounters do that quite well since you can't simply avoid the encounters if you don't feel like dealing with them.


The ability to control to a certain extent when the exploration ends and when the fighting begins rather than it being completely random makes both aspects better.
I don't agree. While non-random encounters work fine in general, there is a trade-off to it, as with greater control over when combat happens comes lessened danger from it, and lessened need to worry about resource management; and thus easier, less satisfying exploration.


As an RPG example of how to provide the player with control, note The World Ends With You.
The encounters there were actually something I had mixed opinions about. I liked being able to stack groups of monsters together and get bonuses for defeating many in a row, but with the encounters being entirely optional outside of boss fights I always feared I would be under-leveled going into the next boss fight, and at times overcompensated due to that fear, which I'd say is an annoying drawback. With random encounters and even non-random but not entirely optional encounters I could always be sure that the encounter rate would be set such that I will be at about the right level to handle the next boss when he comes along.

In any event though The World Ends With You is by no stretch of the imagination a traditional-style RPG, and doesn't have the same sort of exploration and resource-management aspects that other ones do, and which random encounters contribute to.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

I'm doing fine with it myself. The Cleric has good defense, and between her and the Minstrel the party has plenty of healing, and the Martial Artist and Mage provide plenty of offensive power. Non-boss battles are proving no real challenge at all, and the bosses so far have been doable, if tough.

Zevox

Yeah, but Warriors are practically indestructible, and if the Priest gets in Critical, you can use Whipping Boy and/or Whistle to draw the enemies off of her. Plus, their class skill set grants a good amount of Strength. Change over to Paladin after unlocking it (you will need a Warrior to get it), and you can get your base stats (the ones to which your class level stats are added) high enough that you can have a mage-type be a frontline warrior-type. For example, my character has around 20-40 levels in each class right now, except Sage, which I only managed to unlock a half-dozen or so hours ago. Using the stat boosts and items from running around as a Warrior, Paladin, etc. for 30 levels each, I managed to fight competently around Upover from level 1.

Except those stupid giants, mostly the Cyclopes-line. They get crits, especially double-crits, at exactly the most inopportune times.

[AtwasAwamps]

Does anyone have any good strategies for level building classes?

My characters are all around level 33-35 in the main classes I've been using (thief, warrior, martial artist, and priest) and I'd like to switch them around a bit, pick up spare skills and stuff, but I'm not really good at going one way or the other.


I'm at the point where I'm going to go get Greygnarl, if that makes any strategic difference.

[Mando Knight]

You've been grinding way more than enough. I think my characters were around that level when they fought the last boss.

That said, I did take the time to go back and grind up the Celestrian's other classes, so that might have taken up the extra time...

I like progressing through the areas to grind. I used to grind around Dourbridge, but now I go to region around Upover... and the Gittish Empire's monsters aren't much better XP-wise than Upover's, and Upover's monsters have some good item drops (dragon scales from the various dragons in and around the volcano, mirrorstones from Mega Maoi, etc.) and decent gold drops. The big things you'd have to watch out for are the big guys, which have fairly high Crit rates and really heavy critical damage.

[AtwasAwamps]

Funny, I haven't really done any serious grinding at all. I did cash grinding at one point, but I haven't done any serious level building. To be fair, I do charge forward and attack anything that so much as moves in my area of vision.

[Mando Knight]

To be fair, I do charge forward and attack anything that so much as moves in my area of vision.

That's roughly the same as grinding. :smalltongue:

You'll definitely want most of your MP-users to grab Focus Pocus (Mage skill), since it'll let you use Falcon Slash, Heal, and Caduceus perpetually. Also, dig out the recipe for Life Bracers. Nothing (other than the Goddess Ring) is more useful than an item which makes enemies that deal scratch damage completely worthless. It's also necessary for completing the recipe for the Über Miracle Sword...

[AtwasAwamps]

That's roughly the same as grinding. :smalltongue:



I always figured it was just horrible horrible violence in the name of good.

[Mando Knight]

This just in: the super-special secret party members carry some decent equipment. The first one I got had a Lucky Pendant, which is rare enough that I paused to think what I would alchemize it into. Well, what to alchemize with the Monarchic Mark that I made from the Pendant, at any rate.

[AtwasAwamps]

So...I am currently standing in front of the final boss (I think - 2nd Corvus, after Barbarus). My characters are scattered between level 36 and 42 (I know, big spread). Wish me luck, I guess. Man. I hate work. My DS is sitting in my bag, WAITING for me to beat up a final boss...

[Mando Knight]

You're at the final main-story boss, but that's only the beginning. Estark, Zoma, and their like are still ridiculously more powerful.

[Chen]

Do any stats carry over when changing classes (besides the ones you get from abilities in a class)? Or is it just abilities and the omni-weapon/shield skills?

[Zevox]

Weapon skill points carry over, but you can only use them if your new class can equip that weapon, or you have the omni-weapon skill so that you can equip it regardless of your class.

Zevox

[Setra]

Ah HA! Finally beat Zoma.

As someone who hadn't done a grotto above 10 when I had gotten that map, he was a real wake up call as far as the difficulty.. this coming from someone who grinds quite a lot...

I love my Paladin.

[Mando Knight]

I love my Paladin.

Paladins are lovable jugs of slowly-depleting HP. When I got the Estark map, the Best Buy I went to hadn't gotten the event card, so we had to wait for someone to come over with the map in hand and defeat it. They used two Paladins, a Gladiator, and a Sage to take him out, alternating Forbearance on the Paladins while the Sage kept 'em healthy and the Gladiator used Falcon Slash. One of the Paladins also used Egg On to boost the Gladiator when it wasn't his turn for Forbearance...

...I also got the Basalt Nest of Glee Lv. 38 there, which has Liquid Metal Slimes on the first four floors. :smallamused:

And the Silver Marsh of Bane Lv. 58 (or some such), which has Maoi Minstrels (and Slugly Betsies) from B9 down. And you need a Paladin or something to stay alive down there, especially if you're trying to unlock the Luminary vocation... but now I need to complete the map, since it's the only Silver map I've got, and I need to get that key for Princess Simona...

[Setra]

Paladins are lovable jugs of slowly-depleting HP. When I got the Estark map, the Best Buy I went to hadn't gotten the event card, so we had to wait for someone to come over with the map in hand and defeat it. They used two Paladins, a Gladiator, and a Sage to take him out, alternating Forbearance on the Paladins while the Sage kept 'em healthy and the Gladiator used Falcon Slash. One of the Paladins also used Egg On to boost the Gladiator when it wasn't his turn for Forbearance...

...I also got the Basalt Nest of Glee Lv. 38 there, which has Liquid Metal Slimes on the first four floors. :smallamused:

And the Silver Marsh of Bane Lv. 58 (or some such), which has Maoi Minstrels (and Slugly Betsies) from B9 down. And you need a Paladin or something to stay alive down there, especially if you're trying to unlock the Luminary vocation... but now I need to complete the map, since it's the only Silver map I've got, and I need to get that key for Princess Simona...
I myself use a Paladin, Gladiator, Armamentalist, and Sage. I've debated switching my Armamentalist for a Gladiator or Paladin, but I don't like having two people of the same class.

You do know about the Slime Hill, right? You can run into groups of like 6 Metal Babbles at once, and they can pop up fairly often. Just for the purpose of hunting metal babbles I've got every one of my character having mastered either a Spear or Axe, in addition to their normal weapons (Fan, Sword, Sword, Staff).

I'm hoping to get a Grotto higher than 44 (my current highest) because aside from Zoma the game isn't giving me much of a challenge (Partially because I am a grindwhore)... plus I want to unlock Luminary, I hear it has useful skills.

I've got a level 43 Silver Map, if only I could send it over the net =p

Edit: On another note, I'd have much more progress in the game if I wouldn't keep closing it and forgetting it's still on, then taking the game out to play Pokemon and realizing I just lost several hours of grinding :smallfrown:

[AtwasAwamps]

Ah. Time to start optimizing ><

My current party is a Warrior, Martial Artist, Armamentalist, and Priest. I'm going to be rearranging this a bit now.

The current game plan:

Warrior: Already extremely difficult to bring down, will be classing into paladin to become even more resilient and have more MP for Falcon Slash and Miracle Slash, as well as ridiculous party defences. Might stop by in Gladiator for bonus HP and Strength later.

Martial Artist: Finish up for Omnivocational Clawmaster and hop into Gladiator to round her out. I'll lose a lot of speed, but gain significant defensive capabilities for her and get her offensive way high.

Priest: Hit wizard for a while, then use wizard powers to unlock sage while leveling. Round out wizardliness and then begin grinding sage...

Armamentalist: No. Goddamn. Clue. I don't want to lose this guy's awesome buffs...they make fights quite easy. Though admittedly I'm not impressed by the Fource. Any ideas?

[ScottishDragon]

Well I was just about to get into the capital of the gittish empire,when,I started a new game.How's my party?
Ministel lv. 14
Fighter lv. 14
Martial Artist lv. 14
Thief lv.13
Am I good with not having a preist,I find that other charachters get heal and can use them instead?

[Zevox]

I've been playing this a bit more of late than I was for quite a while. I've recently finished my 5th Fygg quest for the story and stopped to do side-quests and some level grinding in other classes to expand my characters' repetoires. My current team is:

Minstrel, level 29 - The hero, so far she's the only one who has spent minimal time in other classes (hence her high level), taking only 12 levels of Martial Artist to learn Psyche Up. This is mostly because I want her to be a whip user and the only other class that gets whips at this point is Mage, which I am not interested in making her. Though maybe next time I do some class-switching with the others I'll make her a Mage just to bolster her whip skill with easy early-level skill points. In any event, her role is mainly healing and support (Egg On!) during boss battles. She makes (non)-random encounters pretty easy though, being able to attack a full group with that whip, and fairly often causing a monster to be distracted due to her high charm/appearance stats. Not really sure where she'll go once she gets Omnivocational Whipmaster - Ranger maybe?

Paladin, level 20 - Former Priest, the tank/healer of the group, spear wielder, still catching back up in levels since her class switch. I'm still not sure if I prefer her as a Paladin to Priest, since she's taken a clear and significant hit to mp in making the switch. Still, the Minstrel can do healing too, so hopefully it'll work out between them. Also has levels in Warrior (in order to unlock the Paladin class) and Martial Artist (Psyche Up).

Martial Artist, level 25 - Damage dealer of the group, claw specialist. Has spent time as a Thief (for easy claw skill points), Gladiator, and Armamentalist (for their class skill abilities). Will probably end up as an Armamentalist once she gets Omnivocational Clawmaster

Mage, level 26 - Support/attack magic of the group. Staff wielder. Will certainly become a Sage once I get that. Also has levels as a Thief (for side-quest purposes mostly) and Martial Artist (Psyche Up).


Well I was just about to get into the capital of the gittish empire,when,I started a new game.How's my party?
Ministel lv. 14
Fighter lv. 14
Martial Artist lv. 14
Thief lv.13
Am I good with not having a preist,I find that other charachters get heal and can use them instead?
The Minstrel makes a fairly good healer, but the Thief is a minor backup healer only as your levels go on. He won't learn any healing spells better than the one he already has, and his magical mending stat won't be anything special. You will probably want a better healer of some sort eventually, but you should be able to get by with a group like that for a while.

Zevox

[Chen]

Just started doing the endgame but I hadn't really multiclassed at all.

Original party was: Minstrel, Warrior, mage, priest. However I switched the mage to a gladiator pretty early and never really looked back. Mage seems kinda pointless since I was always just conserving MP. I multiclassed the minstrel, priest and warrior into martial artist as well to get psych up. Im really thinking of changing the warrior to a paladin and I want to change the minstrel to something once I get omnivocational swords. The minstrel and warrior are both using Falcon blades (one uber) and the gladiator is using axes. I hear fans are actually quite good. Should I be getting that on the Minstrel at some point? Since you can change weapons in combat it seems ok to have 2 skills, assuming one is a support skill you don't always use.

Also once in the endgame what strategy do you use for vocation switching/leveling? I switched two characters at one point but found it somewhat annoying to kill liquid metal slimes and level them. Should I be doing 1 char at a time?

[ScottishDragon]

Hey when do I start getting treasure maps,was at lvl 35 when made new game,or is it after I beat the game?

[Mando Knight]

plus I want to unlock Luminary, I hear it has useful skills.
Well, not so much useful as amusing. Disco Coup-de-Grâce, and the unique skills include autograph slinging and covering your face from the paparazzi's flash bulbs.

Stats-wise:
Highest Charm, second-lowest Strength, Priest-grade Mending, huge selection of non-weapon equips (weapons are Fan, 'Rang, Whip), similar spell list to the Minstrel, less Zing and Crack(le) return for Kaswooshle.

Martial Artist: Finish up for Omnivocational Clawmaster and hop into Gladiator to round her out. I'll lose a lot of speed, but gain significant defensive capabilities for her and get her offensive way high.

...

Armamentalist: No. Goddamn. Clue. I don't want to lose this guy's awesome buffs...they make fights quite easy. Though admittedly I'm not impressed by the Fource. Any ideas?Personally, while Claws are good, I haven't found anything that makes me want to give up Swords. Five classes use them naturally, and the Über Falcon Blade makes the Falcon Slash the strongest attack in the game... especially when in Superhigh Tension.

The Fource is most useful if you know the enemy's weakness (final boss's is Fire), and if you've got the Armamentalist's Album. The latter is gained by getting to level 40 as an Armamentalist and completing the class's third quest, and causes the Fource skills to affect the whole party at once.

Hey when do I start getting treasure maps,was at lvl 35 when made new game,or is it after I beat the game?Random maps are gained from other maps, and your two seed maps come from Christopher Collapsus near Zere Rocks (complete his quest) and King Schott of Stornway (complete the game).

[AtwasAwamps]

Question about tension: How worthwhile is it really? I've always been skeptical about giving up a turn to increase tension, as couldn't you be more effective overall if you used that turn to take an action?

[Zevox]

Question about tension: How worthwhile is it really? I've always been skeptical about giving up a turn to increase tension, as couldn't you be more effective overall if you used that turn to take an action?
It's great. It's basically always worth using unless you're attacking with only 5 tension (one turn worth). Once you get up to 50 and 100 tension (3 and 4 turns respectively) you'll do amazing damage, especially from multi-hit attacks. Add in some castings of sap to reduce the opponent's defense and those multi-hit high-tension attacks become the best you can get in the entire game easily, at least if 9's late-game boss battles are anything like 8's. And with the Egg On ability the main character gets in this one combined with other party members learning the Psyche Up ability via the Martial Artist class it becomes possible to focus someone to 50 or 100 tension in only two turns.

That's basically my boss battle strategy - get my Martial Artist to 50/100 tension with a couple turns of Psyche Up + Egg On and let her rip the boss a new one. Usually takes them out in 2-4 hits, with a little support damage from the Mage once she finishes buffing the party with accelerate and casting sap on the boss.

The one concern there is that late-game bosses in this series often have an ability called the Icy Wave, which removes all of your buffs, and unless it was changed from DQ8, that includes tension. Abilities that temporarily stun you, like war cries or sleep effects, will also eliminate tension. So you have to watch out for those. In DQ8 that often lead to you considering whether to go all the way to 100 with your tension or to stop at 50 or even 20 (2 turns), depending on just how often the boss in question tended to use the offending ability.

Obviously it's usually not worth bothering with tension vs non-boss opponents though. They're typically easy enough that a few rounds of standard attacks and spells deals with them anyway.

Zevox

[Setra]

Question about tension: How worthwhile is it really? I've always been skeptical about giving up a turn to increase tension, as couldn't you be more effective overall if you used that turn to take an action?
It's more effective as you increase your tension.

Gladiator using Falcon Slash with Double Up(or oomph):
400 damage

5 Tension:
700

20 Tension:
???, honestly, never attacked with 20, if I'm gonna go for higher than 5 I'm going for 50

50 Tension:
3000 damage

100 Tension:
6500, I never go for 100 against anything that can use disruptive wave though.

On another note, 8000 is the highest you can deal with Falcon Slash given the damage cap (1999 per hit), though I hear Clap Trap has a damage cap of 9999.

[Mando Knight]

Question about tension: How worthwhile is it really? I've always been skeptical about giving up a turn to increase tension, as couldn't you be more effective overall if you used that turn to take an action?

Several tactical choices or situations for using Tension:

1.) The Celestrian is in a state in which he/she can't attack as well as someone else would (is a Priest or Mage, and don't know/have the weakness element to use the latter's spells, etc). Egg On the other guy to increase the total damage output.

2.) CdG tension boosters are always worth it. There's three of them: the Monk's Roaring Tirade (+1 Tension level, all enemies get hit with auto-fear), the Luminary's Disco move (+1 Tension, all enemies start dancing), and the Gladiator's super-Psyche Up (+3 Tension, chance of jumping to Super High Tension).

3.) Super High Tension negates status effects and reduces damage taken by the tense character.

4.) A Paladin's Forbearance draws all attacks to himself. Including taking all the damage from area attacks. I haven't tested it, but I presume this includes Disruptive Wave. Shore up everything by super-powering your Gladiator while the Paladin uses Forbearance and the Priest/Sage heals the Paladin (likely with Moreheal, especially on tougher bosses. You'll need it...), then release a SHT Double-Up Falcon Blade Falcon Slash.

For the math: this (http://dragonquest9.com/628.html) Japanese DQ9 wiki states that tension multipliers are estimated as follows:
{table=head]Tension|Multiplier
0|1
5|1.5
20|2.5
50|4.5
100 (SHT)|6[/table]
Thus, it's more effective than just starting with 50 tension, though that leaves you vulnerable to Disruptive Wave. Super High Tension has a random chance of success, so I don't think it's usually worth it, unless you're egging on a Paladin that's using Forbearance because you don't have any other heavy hitters around.

[Setra]

4.) A Paladin's Forbearance draws all attacks to himself. Including taking all the damage from area attacks. I haven't tested it, but I presume this includes Disruptive Wave. Shore up everything by super-powering your Gladiator while the Paladin uses Forbearance and the Priest/Sage heals the Paladin (likely with Moreheal, especially on tougher bosses. You'll need it...), then release a SHT Double-Up Falcon Blade Falcon Slash.
No, Forbearance does not work on Disuptive Wave, though I've heard it does if he is under the effects of Knight Watch.

SHT is not worth it on a boss capable of using disruptive wave, if you've got 50 then hurry and use it before he disrupts you. The chance of failing to get SHT increases the likeliness of you losing all your buffs before you attack.

Edit: I'm trying to farm Nemean for his 2% drop, so I get my Gladiator to SHT with Funereal Fource and so I decided to use Clap Trap.

5663 damage :smallbiggrin:

Next time I'm going to use a normal attack and see if 1999 really is the damage cap.

[Volatar]

I just picked up this game. I had never played a DQ game before. Now I am amazed at what I have been missing.

[bluewind95]

I just finished Dragon Quest 9. I loved the game. I find it the best DS game I've played.

As for the ending...


I found it so sad! Seriously... the one Celestrian said to be "favoured" by the gods... and look what happens to him/her. Stripped of something that was obviously important to him/her (Celestrianhood) and after all the sacrifice made for the whole world.

As soon as Serena explained what had really happened with Corvus, I knew how it was all going to end. It was a tad quick, but cute. The way she shared her memories with him and gave him his peace of mind again... I thought that was pretty sweet.

I also kind of wanted the hero to get his/her wings back. They looked pretty neat.



I loved the semi-random battles. It was good to know what was chasing you. I actually wasn't very good about remembering things like healing. But hey. It was fun. Much fun. I am still enjoying the post-game stuffs. Wonderful game.

[Mando Knight]

I am still enjoying the post-game stuffs.

Post-game is longer than the main story. Plus, if you haven't completed Quest #039 yet, you haven't really started the postgame stuff. :smallwink:

[bluewind95]

Post-game is longer than the main story. Plus, if you haven't completed Quest #039 yet, you haven't really started the postgame stuff. :smallwink:

Just got that done. Took me a while to gather all the stuff needed for it. :smalltongue:

But... but... the character is still mortal. No wings or anything. Sad! :smallfrown:

[Mando Knight]

Just got that done. Took me a while to gather all the stuff needed for it. :smalltongue:

You can actually buy all of the items needed. After a while, I didn't sell off my old weapons and such, so I still had the Watermaul Wand, and the Flowing Dress was easy enough to get. Rather than scrape together the items to alchemize myself a Silver Shield, I just bought one from the Stornway Armour Shop's postgame expansion with my stockpiled cash.

[bluewind95]

You can actually buy all of the items needed. After a while, I didn't sell off my old weapons and such, so I still had the Watermaul Wand, and the Flowing Dress was easy enough to get. Rather than scrape together the items to alchemize myself a Silver Shield, I just bought one from the Stornway Armour Shop's postgame expansion with my stockpiled cash.

I took one look at the price... and then went to get the items! :smalltongue:

Since I'm being quite the item-hog, I don't have enough money that I'd want to spend that much. Besides... I want to get to 100% completion on the Alchenomicon.

[AtwasAwamps]

Well, I’m off to grind up some better characters for a while now that I’ve FINALLY unlocked more challenging grottos. ::sigh:: I do need to alchemize up some gear and start finishing off quests, though. I’ve done very, very few quests overall and especially NONE of the follow up class quests. Go me!

[Zevox]

Hm, so has anyone here done the "You Scratch My Back..." quest? The basic wand one from the academy weapons teacher? Because it's really annoying me. I got that NPC to tell me the cave to go to to find the wand, but no matter how much I fight, it never seems to drop. According to online guides I just need to fight Salamarauders until they drop it... but I've fought near on 100 of them (literally - my count of "number defeated" in my monster list says 95 killed, and I guarantee you not many of those were from my first time through the cave for the story, certainly no more than 10 or so at most), and it's just not happening.

I've actually gone and switched classes of 3 of my characters (Minstrel => Mage, Martial Artist => Ranger, Mage => Priest) because all these fights were actually leveling me up in spite of how many levels above what this cave is designed for I am (left the fourth member because she's still behind the others from switching to Paladin on a likely-permanent basis, and so there's at least one solid fighter in the group while the others level). That's how bad this is for me.

So, is there some trick to this that I and the online guides are missing, or is this just a badly designed quest?

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

Since I'm being quite the item-hog, I don't have enough money that I'd want to spend that much.

1.) Gold Golems.

2.) Gleeban coins, other than one Gleeban Gold Piece (you'll need it for a quest).

The latter have less than no purpose, and the former are fairly common, ridiculously high-cash monsters.

[Volatar]

I joined my friends game and we grinded those Gold Golems for a couple hours. So much money :smallcool:

[AtwasAwamps]

So, is there some trick to this that I and the online guides are missing, or is this just a badly designed quest?

Zevox

...I got it on my second fight.

It's just like WoW, except there's nobody to talk to!

[Volatar]

So, I have my party of Ministral-Warrior-Martial Artist-Priest, and I am beginning to think I need a mage. However, I am not sure which to switch out. Any thoughts anyone? Maybe my ministal, but I have been skilling her for fighting, rather than magic so far...

[Zevox]

I can say from experience that Minstrel/Priest/Martial Artist/Mage works quite well personally, so strange as it may sound, the Warrior would be a viable choice. Though unless he/she has been learning shield skill, you probably wouldn't get much use out of the skills from that class after the switch.

If you'd prefer the Minstrel, it really won't matter much how you've been skilling her. The only weapon that would transfer over is the whip, and honestly even if that's the weapon she's been using it'd be better just to have her start over with learning wand skills. Wands are custom-designed to be the best option for casting-focused characters: their skill gives bonus mp when you wield them, one of the highest-level benefits of the skill gives you mp regeneration at the end of every turn, the weapons themselves are able to drain mp from enemies when you hit them in battle with one, plus there's the fact that you can use many of them as items to cast a spell for free in battle.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

I can say from experience that Minstrel/Priest/Martial Artist/Mage works quite well personally, so strange as it may sound, the Warrior would be a viable choice. Though unless he/she has been learning shield skill, you probably wouldn't get much use out of the skills from that class after the switch.

Whistle and Whipping Boy are indispensable before you get Forbearance (a very late Paladin skill) and Eyes on Me (a late Luminary skill. A late skill from the last class), since they can cover a weakened character (though Whistle doesn't always work and some monsters seem to respond to it more) while the Priest heals them.

Also, I fully recommend everyone get at least 36 (or was it 34?) levels in Paladin. +100 to your base Resistance means that you're as well off in the Dangerous Bikini set as a Mage as a straight-up Thief is in the full Erdrick's set. That, and the high-MP classes can use M-Pathy to boost any low-MP classes that need a recharge. (And you can feed the entire party's MP budget on one Goddess Ring)


...Oops, misread. No, you don't need a Mage. I actually find that unless you get at least 38 levels in Mage and Sage, as well as cherry-pick off of Armamentalist, magic damage will lag behind Spear or Sword damage on single targets, which is where most of your trouble will be eventually anyway thanks to bosses... (Metal Slimes are also immune to magic)

[Volatar]

Alright then, thank you. I will switch my ministral to mage. How does (at some point) switching my Warrior to Paladin also sound?

Time for some level grinding :smalltongue:

[Mando Knight]

How does (at some point) switching my Warrior to Paladin also sound?

If your Warrior uses Swords, class over to Thief, Armamentalist, Gladiator, or Minstrel first for Omnivocational Swordmastery. If you use Spears, you can go straight into Paladin. If you use Knives, I can't help you at all.

[Zevox]

Whistle and Whipping Boy are indispensable before you get Forbearance (a very late Paladin skill) and Eyes on Me (a late Luminary skill. A late skill from the last class), since they can cover a weakened character (though Whistle doesn't always work and some monsters seem to respond to it more) while the Priest heals them.
Whistle and Whipping Boy would generally be a very bad idea to use when you're a mage, though. You don't have the hp or defense to back them up. Whistle would be useful for calling monsters out-of-battle to speed up grinding, but that's about it.


Alright then, thank you. I will switch my ministral to mage. How does (at some point) switching my Warrior to Paladin also sound?
Probably a good idea. I switched my Priest to one, and while I miss the high mp and magical mending (not to mention Zing...), she's definitely a tougher and stronger fighter for it, more around what I'd imagine a warrior to be. So you'll be getting the warrior's abilities plus some healing magic - win/win.

Zevox

[Volatar]

If your Warrior uses Swords, class over to Thief, Armamentalist, Gladiator, or Minstrel first for Omnivocational Swordmastery. If you use Spears, you can go straight into Paladin. If you use Knives, I can't help you at all.

Thanks for the tip, I didn't realize paladins couldn't use swords naturally. I will have to do that then.



Probably a good idea. I switched my Priest to one, and while I miss the high mp and magical mending (not to mention Zing...), she's definitely a tougher and stronger fighter for it, more around what I'd imagine a warrior to be. So you'll be getting the warrior's abilities plus some healing magic - win/win.

Sweet, then I shall do that.

Any tips on leveling up a new class fast? Any certain areas/monsters to kill, strategies to use?

[Zevox]

Any tips on leveling up a new class fast? Any certain areas/monsters to kill, strategies to use?
So long as at least one of your characters is still in a class they have high levels in and you have good equipment for the new class you should be fine just grinding in whatever the latest area you've reached is.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

Sweet, then I shall do that.

Any tips on leveling up a new class fast? Any certain areas/monsters to kill, strategies to use?

Slime Hill will always be mentioned, since it's probably the only place where you'll regularly find the various Metal Slimes in groups, and at a higher spawn rate than nearly any other area.

Of course, you need to complete Quest 39 to get there...

[Volatar]

Slime Hill will always be mentioned, since it's probably the only place where you'll regularly find the various Metal Slimes in groups, and at a higher spawn rate than nearly any other area.

Of course, you need to complete Quest 39 to get there...

Yeah, I am not there yet.:smallredface: I am still in the story. I just got the boat. After I get the boat I am supposed to head NE to the desert island right? (This is the place where I can grind Gold Golems for cash too right? I sure hope so. I think I am starting to lag behind equipment-wise.)

[bluewind95]

I am having SO much fun with the customization system. I've done little to no optimization and instead have just been pursuing the abilities that I find would be fitting for the character, having based them (design and name) off of roleplaying characters. It's been such fun!

I think I even have a pretty balanced team. A sage, a mage, a priest and a martial artist. The sage was lagging behind a LOT of levels at the final battle in the story mode, but I still managed to scrape through that. :smalltongue:


Yeah, I am not there yet.:smallredface: I am still in the story. I just got the boat. After I get the boat I am supposed to head NE to the desert island right? (This is the place where I can grind Gold Golems for cash too right? I sure hope so. I think I am starting to lag behind equipment-wise.)

I believe so, yes!

[Volatar]

What the heck does the "Deftness" stat do anyways? :smallconfused:

[Zevox]

What the heck does the "Deftness" stat do anyways? :smallconfused:
According to the instruction booklet, it affects your odds of doing a preemptive strike, making critical hits, and fleeing from battle.

Zevox

[Volatar]

According to the instruction booklet...

Oh... I neglected to read that. :smallredface:

Thanks. It looks like a rather useful stat.

[ScionoftheVoid]

I love this game.

I'm up to the Realm of the Mighty (or it could still be Almighty and I've just read it wrong every time since it got all dungeon-ey) with a Minstrel (about twenty levels in Martial Artist and about fifteen in Armamentalist)/Sage (formerly Mage, about fifteen levels of Armamentalist, needing training)/ Martial Artist (about twenty levels in Thief, her original class) and Paladin (with about fifteen levels of Warrior and twenty of Priest, his original class). Wielding Fans, Wands (but more often spells), Claws (multi-hit attacks, particularly Hardclaw, plus high tension makes me happy), and Spears (though more usually Whipping Boy and Shield abilities), respectively.

The MC hasn't done anything particularly awesome, nor have Cassidy (Sage) or Lily (Martial Artist). However anything they could have done is probably dwarfed by Smaug's (I was not feeling imaginitive when I named him, he had green hair and yellow eyes so I thought "dragon") Crowning Moment of Awesome. He was the last survivor of my fight with Godwyn (Second Form), who was killed by his own Kafrizz(le?) spell. Magic Mirror, Knight Watch whenever it was available and enough defence to make anything but breath attacks irrelevant is an awesome combination. He only had to heal with basic Medicinal Herbs during that, (Pincushion or attack damage wasn't worth it, I wanted to conserve MP to refresh Magic Mirror and defending just meant I was at lower health when I had to stop to put MM back up, leaving me vulnerable to magic).

Still haven't beaten Lv. 5 Bronze Mine of Joy's boss yet. Stupid physical-based bosses with two turns. Yes, Goresby-Purrvis trashed me time and again too, I hate that upward sword slash. On a completely related note I have a few questions about that attack: Is it unblockable and undodgeable? Is it always 100% effective in its status-inflicting? If the answer to either of these is no, does the RNG hate me? If the answer to either of those is yes, is it available as an actual sword (or other skill) ability?

[Mando Knight]

Still haven't beaten Lv. 5 Bronze Mine of Joy's boss yet. Stupid physical-based bosses with two turns. Yes, Goresby-Purrvis trashed me time and again too, I hate that upward sword slash. On a completely related note I have a few questions about that attack: Is it unblockable and undodgeable? Is it always 100% effective in its status-inflicting? If the answer to either of these is no, does the RNG hate me? If the answer to either of those is yes, is it available as an actual sword (or other skill) ability?

It's neither unblockable nor undodgeable. However, I don't think that it's a flat block/dodge rate. Purrvis may have too high an accuracy rate for your dodge/block to work. His attack isn't available as an actual skill, but you can do a double slash in the form of Falcon Slash, or a crit-or-miss with the Lance and Hammer.

Is the boss Equinox? His weakness is Life Fource. Or anti-beast moves. However, if you're having trouble against the sub-bosses in the Realm of the Mighty, you can't beat Equinox yet. Come back when you've beaten the final boss.

[bluewind95]

However, if you're having trouble against the sub-bosses in the Realm of the Mighty, you can't beat Equinox yet. Come back when you've beaten the final boss.

... Huuuh? I beat Equinox a good many times before I scraped by the final boss. :smallconfused:

[Mando Knight]

... Huuuh? I beat Equinox a good many times before I scraped by the final boss. :smallconfused:

Yeah, but if you're having problems with the Realm's sub bosses, you probably won't have better luck against Equinox (or Nemean, if that's who you're fighting). Since he doesn't have the Whistle or high-level grottos, the Realm of the Mighty is the best place to train right now.

[SpekterofDavid]

"Break up the gameplay?" They are the gameplay. And that's kind of the point - exploring for treasure, puzzle-solving, etc carries a risk with it, since you can never be sure how many fights you'll have to go through to get through it. It also forces better resource management with hp, mp, and items since you can't simply avoid fights, and the "run" option often fails frequently.

And, well, we'll just have to disagree about the "annoying" part.


The point is that it's a very traditional part of a very traditional series. Dragon Quest was the series that defined JRPGs, and it's always stuck to the basic formula that was present in the first game, only adding new things, never taking away the basics. Until 9.

Zevox

Well I only played a few dragonquest games but. Thats the point, It was trying something new.

Ps: HELL I HATE RANDOM ENCOUNTERS! I HATE THEN SO BAD! Although they "Are" The game it still interupts you like hell.

[bluewind95]

Yeah, but if you're having problems with the Realm's sub bosses, you probably won't have better luck against Equinox (or Nemean, if that's who you're fighting). Since he doesn't have the Whistle or high-level grottos, the Realm of the Mighty is the best place to train right now.

I was beaten up badly by the final boss, and several bosses before that, though, after I could beat Equinox easily enough.

[Mando Knight]

One of the dungeons I had picked up during an event, a level 50+ Silver water dungeon, (Silver Marsh of Bane Lv 58) has one of the best training spots this side of Slime Hill.

B11 has nothing but Metal King Slimes. The other opponents from the previous 5 floors only come in as single groups of secondary monsters. Every monster that appears on the map is a Metal King. I once had a parade of Metal Kings just march past me while I was using Jack's Knack to even out the experience a bit.

[ScionoftheVoid]

It was Nemean, who I can now beat into a pulp without effort, often multiple times without healing.

I have now defeated the real Lleviathan and beaten grottos of up to level ~20. The Trauminator was both hilarious and slightly difficult, but nothing else has hit me too badly on the way.

I've been using my DS for Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky for the past few days, I'll have to get back to DQIX over the weekend.

[Mando Knight]

The quest for not-so-secret bonus party member #2 is available on DLC now...

[Zevox]

So, I'm pretty much at the end of the game now (just defeated Barbarus - not sure I have the name exactly right, but those who are far enough should know who I mean - and I'm using Evac to head out and heal/save), and I'm blowing through fights like they were nothing. Yeah, those three sub-bosses from the final dungeon standing between you and the villain? My Martial Artist one-hit-KOed the first two, and the third took only two hits. 100 tension + double up/oomph + hardclaw just slaughters things so easily, apparently. (Oh, that second hit that killed the third sub-boss? A 5 tension casting of Frizzle from my mage, dealing a little over 100 damage. Yeah, he only barely survived the first blow.) Barbarus didn't actually take much more than that - the first hardclaw was only 50 tension since I got unlucky and the attempt at egging on to 100 failed, he survived that on a 100 tension second, then died to the first hit of the third one (also 100 tension).

And I don't think I'm even overleved, or not by much if I am - my main character just hit 41, the others just hit 38-39, and we were a level or two below that for all of the bosses before Barbarus.

I'll post my overall thoughts on the game once I finish up with the final boss. General gist though, it's a good enough game, but I am disappointed with it in a number of areas, and I don't think it rates up there with my favorites of the series, 5 and 8.

Zevox

[Mando Knight]

and I don't think it rates up there with my favorites of the series, 5 and 8.

Oh, the one where you choose between the childhood friend and the rich lass for your wife (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M9gTjmtil4)? I was thinking of buying the DS remake of that one...

[Zevox]

Oh, the one where you choose between the childhood friend and the rich lass for your wife (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M9gTjmtil4)? I was thinking of buying the DS remake of that one...
And there's a third girl in the DS remake, though you'd have to be pretty masochistic to marry her.

It is pretty darn good in my opinion. The whole concept where you play through your character's life, from childhood through marriage and adulthood, and even end up with your children as party members in the end is pretty interesting and well-executed. The story beyond that is still the usual fare, but well-told through that perspective. It also has a monster party member system, which might well have been an inspiration for Pokèmon, since the original game came out a good four years before Pokèmon. Only major problem I had with that was that whether a monster decides to join you is totally random - if you've ever played Dragon Quest Monsters, it basically works like that (those games were based on DQV's system), except there's no meat to increase the odds.

Zevox