How to kill a mockingbird(or you know a red dragon)

[KimchiKrush]

I am in a 3.5 campaign, playing as a paladin, and I want to take the Vassal of Bahamut prestige class at level 7

I already have a the PrC to take it, but I highly doubt I can take a juvenile red dragon straight on. Because I am a Paladin of Freedom, and have an alignment of chaotic good, and already and a worshiper of Bahamut, my DM said that I could use any means necessary to kill the dragon. My DM said the best way would be to sneak up on it while it was sleeping, but seeing as they have blindsense and insane spot and listen checks I think he is just trying to bait me. I really am at a loss, and most likely will have to wait a few levels to be able to take on the dragon.

[Jack_Simth]

I am in a 3.5 campaign, playing as a paladin, and I want to take the Vassal of Bahamut prestige class at level 7

I already have a the PrC to take it, but I highly doubt I can take a juvenile red dragon straight on. Because I am a Paladin of Freedom, and have an alignment of chaotic good, and already and a worshiper of Bahamut, my DM said that I could use any means necessary to kill the dragon. My DM said the best way would be to sneak up on it while it was sleeping, but seeing as they have blindsense and insane spot and listen checks I think he is just trying to bait me. I really am at a loss, and most likely will have to wait a few levels to be able to take on the dragon.
1) Spot is pretty useless when you're asleep, so that's negligible... if you can catch the red dragon sleeping.
2) Blindsense has a limited range, so you just need to be outside that range when you take your shots.
3) Listen has a -10 penalty when you're asleep, and has a -1 penalty for every ten feet of distance. Oh yes, and you can get a potion/oil of Silence from a Cleric, so that no listen check is possible.

So if you're 100 feet away from the sleeping dragon, it's at -20 to hear you. Although arranging for a straight line to fire your Ballista might be a problem.

[Optimystik]

Are you on your own? Juvie Reds are CR 10, there's no chance in hell you can take it on at 7 with a Tier 5 class.

Who else is in the party? Is it at least gestalt?

[2xMachina]

Hire a wizard to shivering touch it?

[sdream]

young red dragons should not have dispel.

Pay for scrying services to find a young red dragon without allies.

Spend some gold on 7th level NPC (and co-player) spellcasting services.

1st level wizard buffs
Enlarge Person (+ reach weapon)

2nd level wizard spell buffs
Bull's strength
Bear's Endurance
Cat's Grace
protection from energy - fire (20 points off per breath)

3rd level wizard buffs
haste
keen edge
heroism
rage

1 - They buff you
2 - Caster1 dimension doors you and Caster2 5' from the dragon
3 - You were holding action to 5' step and full attack flatfoot dragon
4 - Caster2 was holding action to dimension door self + Caster1 away

Cost is just buffs (some of which party casters should be able to do) scrying, and 2 4th level spells with low risk (only entering a dragon's lair for a fraction of a second).

If you can't waste a flatfooted young dragon DURING the surprise round with those buffs, you need to roll a new character anyway. (And even if it flees immediatly at top speed, reach+ enlarge means you still get Attack of opportunity.)

If it actually turns to fight you, the breath should be nerfed and you just get an extra turn of full attacks to wipe it out. If it kills you it DESERVES to live. (Or you can go cheap and get a stoneskin spell).

Given a 2 handed weapon (str and a half) you are
+6 to hit
+6 extra strength damage every swing

Splurge on an oil of greater magic weapon +5 for 3k and a masterwork Ransuer you should be hitting with every attack, doing ~20 damage + 2d4 and double damage on rolls 15 or higher.

My math puts that at about 100 damage a turn.

If you win initiative or it tries to fight, it should be dead in two turns. If it wins initiative after the surprise round AND flees immediatly, you still have a good change of killing it in the 4 attacks you get.


OOOO a sleeping dragon starts PRONE! And getting up is a move action, you are set.

[Lycanthromancer]

Take Leadership.

Get dozens of 1st level wizards.

Magic missile it to death from far away.

[Boccobsblog]

A few spells that may help
Lionheart (1st Paladin spell from Spell Com.)- immunity to fear.
Axiomatic water(1st Paladin spell from Spell Com.)-makes holy water for chaotic creatures (in case you get a chance to use missile weapons)
Divine sacrifice (1st Paladin spell from Spell Com.)-you can burn hp to add dmg
And the holy mother of all Paladin spells:
Rhinos rush (1st Paladin spell from Spell Com.)- you double your dmg on a charge
So…
you cast Divine Sac to get an extra 5d6 dmg, you use rhino’s rush to double the damage for the attack, and you charge the dragon and smite evil. You will land a mighty hit.
Also, it goes without saying that you should be exploiting his double damage from cold and you will need fire protection (if not immunity)
I just recently took a pally from first to 21st, they are rock stars for fighting evil, you can do this!

[Rannil]

The Vassal of Bahamut states you need to kill the dragon alone. I do wonder how buffs count? How about an army of clerics just healing?

Anyways if buffs counts the easiest way is buff yourself with move silent buffs, sneak of the dragon and "coup de grace". You only need to do 35 damage and he can never make his fort save. If you fail I guess you are dead. He got a lot of hit points and does a lot of damage, so your rounds are limited and your damage output wouldn't reach high enough.
The option would be to prevent the dragon from making full round attacks and spitting fire, that would prevent a lot of damage, but without a lot of speed and feats like spring attack/ride by attack/fly by attack that wouldn't work either.

Long story short: Sneak while he sleeps and coup de grace, collect your "I killed a red dragon and all I got is this lousy t-shirt" t-shirt.
Buffs help and you don't need armor. (Failing means dead anyways)

[kjones]

Axiomatic water(1st Paladin spell from Spell Com.)-makes holy water for chaotic creatures (in case you get a chance to use missile weapons)


Somehow I doubt that a Paladin of Freedom will be able to use axiomatic water.

[Lord Loss]

The Vassal of Bahamut states you need to kill the dragon alone. I do wonder how buffs count? How about an army of clerics just healing?

Anyways if buffs counts the easiest way is buff yourself with move silent buffs, sneak of the dragon and "coup de grace". You only need to do 35 damage and he can never make his fort save. If you fail I guess you are dead. He got a lot of hit points and does a lot of damage, so your rounds are limited and your damage output wouldn't reach high enough.
The option would be to prevent the dragon from making full round attacks and spitting fire, that would prevent a lot of damage, but without a lot of speed and feats like spring attack/ride by attack/fly by attack that wouldn't work either.

Long story short: Sneak while he sleeps and coup de grace, collect your "I killed a red dragon and all I got is this lousy t-shirt" t-shirt.
Buffs help and you don't need armor. (Failing means dead anyways)

This, + Expeditous Retreat + Fetch or illusions + Invisibility so that you can avoid getting Barbecued if you botch it. If you do, Repeat until the dragon is dead.

EDIT: Instead of Coup De grace, you could use a Wand or Scroll of Shivering Touch.

[sdream]

Somehow I doubt that a Paladin of Freedom will be able to use axiomatic water.

Pity. I have a favorite trick involving dust of dryness and 100 gallons of holy water. (Expensive and one shot, but fun)

In any case, see my edits above, as long as you don't have to kill it in an honorable duel, a fully buffed lvl 7 pally should have no trouble with a sleeping young dragon, as long as he is willing to pay the cost of ridding the world of this menace. (loot may well recoup some of this cost).

[Odentin]

There is a spell in the Draconomicon (I believe) called Hide from Dragons. Renders the caster completely immune to the senses of a dragon. Sight, smell, blindsense, the works. Have a magic item made of that, a necklace or something, then walk straight up to the thing while it's sleeping and coup de grace.

[Optimystik]

Somehow I doubt that a Paladin of Freedom will be able to use axiomatic water.

RAW, they can - the variants only swap out the core spell lists. Paladins don't have the same prohibition about not casting opposite alignment spells that Clerics do, because it's assumed that any spells that don't match wouldn't be on their list anyway.


There is a spell in the Draconomicon (I believe) called Hide from Dragons. Renders the caster completely immune to the senses of a dragon. Sight, smell, blindsense, the works. Have a magic item made of that, a necklace or something, then walk straight up to the thing while it's sleeping and coup de grace.

That's a 7th-level spell though - a bit out of his reach.

[KimchiKrush]

First of all, thank you for all your advice.

My DM and I had a talk, and decided that I would be allowed to receive buffs, that it wasn't against the spirit of the prestige class. The plan is to find a 14th level or higher wizard to cast Hide from Dragons on me, then Greater Teleport me outside of the dragon's lair, after scrying and waiting for it to fall asleep. I have already found a dragon's lair and scouted it out, there are no other monsters living inside so nothing else to worry about. With a +4 Greatsword, Divine Sacrifice, and Smite Evil, I should more than do enough for a coup de grace.