No more giant lizard sorcerers: War Dragons (3.5)

[Frog Dragon]

A common complaint with D&D dragons is that the spellcasting capabilities of the older dragons often outstrip their other abilities and thus it'd often be more optimal for the dragon to cast than do something dragony, like rend it's opponents with it's claws.
My war dragons are an attempt at doing something to this

Sublime Dragon
A sublime dragon is a war dragon that has eschewed arcane studies in favor of the sublime way.
A sublime dragon loses the sorcerer spellcasting the dragon would normally get.
In return, the sublime dragon initiates maneuvers as a warblade or swordsage, gaining an amount of effective levels in the initiating class equal to sorcerer caster level dragons normally have. This is in addition from the initiator levels it gains from HD.
(Note: The Breath of Fire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143684) discipline works awesomely well with this.)

I might do another, more complicated and less ToBby one later, but for now, here's the sublime war dragon.

War Dragon
A war dragon is a dragon that has given up it's spellcasting ability for greater martial prowess.
Every age category the dragon would normally increase its spellcasting capability, it may instead choose one War Dragon ability from the list below.
War Dragon Abilities
Agile Wing: The war dragon's fly speed has maneuverability one category better than normal
Bonus Feat: The war dragon gains a bonus feat. This ability may be taken multiple times.
Elemental Claws: The war dragon deals 1d6 extra damage of the same type it's breath weapon deals with every natural attack per two age categories.
Warclaw Dragon: The war dragon ignores 2 points of non-epic damage reduction with all it's natural attacks per age category
Dragonpaw Burst: The war gains a +5 untyped speed bonus to all it's movement modes per three age categories
Draconic Resistance: The war dragon gains a +1 bonus to all saving throws per two age categories
Draconic Scales: The war dragon's gains +1 to natural armor for every age category it gains.
Fearless Dragon: The war dragon is immune to fear.
Spellscale Drake: The dragon gains it's charisma bonus as a bonus to touch AC. This bonus may not exceed it's natural armor bonus.
Wardrake Breath: The dragon deals an extra die of damage with it's breath weapon per age category.
Fierce Dragon: The save DC for the dragon's frightful precense increases by 1 for every 3 age categories.
Reaching Dragon: The dragon's threatened area increases by 5ft for every 4 age categories.
Magebane Drake: The dragon's spell resistance improves by one per age category.
Reactive Dragon: The dragon gains a bonus equal to it's age category to all initiative checks.

[Sereg]

Ok, but are you aware of this?/shameless plug

[Frog Dragon]

This does work for all dragons.

[Sereg]

This does work for all dragons.

I realise that. Just thought that you might be interested.

[hamishspence]

Eberron did something very similar with the Wardrake alternative feature for dragons, in Dragons of Eberron.

That said, allowing swordsage as well, and all schools rather than just Tiger Claw, is probably more fun.

Shadow dragon doing Swordsage Shadow Hand, for example.

[Prime32]

Eberron did something very similar with the Wardrake alternative feature for dragons, in Dragons of Eberron.You mean the Wyrm of War sovereign archetype. Also known as "the one which isn't loredrake but doesn't suck".

[hamishspence]

Good point- I had Loredrake on the mind when typing, so while I remembered the fighter/TOB style sovereign archetype, I didn't get its name quite right.

[LunarWolfPrime]

ok so let me get this strait you add the normal caster lvl to the 1/2 the dragons hd to determine its initiator lvl?

if that's not it pls do a example to explain it

[Frog Dragon]

ok so let me get this strait you add the normal caster lvl to the 1/2 the dragons hd to determine its initiator lvl?

if that's not it pls do a example to explain it
That's how it works, yes.

[Serpentine]

I like it. Simple, but makes for a very different sort of dragon.

[Morph Bark]

So we got spellcasting, manifesting, incarnum and now sublime dragons... anyone up for binding dragons? Use Rope not needed.

Alternatively, dragons with eldritch breath.

[hamishspence]

Redoing the Battle Dragon from Draconomicon as a dragon of the sublime way- might be interesting.

[Frog Dragon]

It wouldn't have any effective swordsage or warblade levels because it doesn't have effective sorcerer levels to exchange them for. :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

That's why I said "redo it"- since as written it can't be made into a TOB dragon.

The name "Battle Dragon" is very evocative of TOB- and I thought it would be nice to have mechanics reflecting that.

Dragon Magazine has a Hex Dragon- that could be adjusted a bit to make a Hexblade dragon.

A new gem dragon (jade dragon? Obsidian dragon) could be done as a soulknife instead of a psion- only one that doesn't suck.

And maybe the Hellfire Wyrm in MM2, could be redone as the Hellfire Dragon- which uses warlock powers, and gets better versions of the Hellfire Warlock abilities.

[Eldan]

Soulclaw Wyrm?

Let it manifest gigantic, psionic claw weapons at the end of each of it's limbs, then go to town.

[Sereg]

So we got spellcasting, manifesting, incarnum and now sublime dragons... anyone up for binding dragons? Use Rope not needed.

I've been thinking of doing this. They'd be called thinuan dragons.


Alternatively, dragons with eldritch breath.

Also done by me.

[Frog Dragon]

Just made the non ToBby War Dragon. I made the abilities scale, to keep relevant. It's giving up spellcasting after all.

[Sereg]

Just made the non ToBby War Dragon. I made the abilities scale, to keep relevant. It's giving up spellcasting after all.

Those are some nice abilities. As you said, it has to get some nice things for giving up spellcasting.