Incarnum/Warlock, anyone? (Request for Help)

[Zarthrax]

Like the title says, I'm basically looking for an Incarnum/Warlock class to supplement the Incarnum Invocations. If anyone has one, a link would be greatly appreciated.

[EdroGrimshell]

Like the title says, I'm basically looking for an Incarnum/Warlock class to supplement the Incarnum Invocations. If anyone has one, a link would be greatly appreciated.

I think this was in a contest somewhere, i'll take a look around

EDIT: Here it is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7304448&postcount=3)

[For Valor]

It'd be hard to combine those two classes.... the Warlock and most Soulmeld classes (aside from the Soulborn, but you don't want the crap from that class) are tier 3-ish. If you combined the best of both classes, the result would be quite strong.

What are you looking for from the class? Damage with soulmelds and invocations as a supplement? Eldritch blasts with soulmelds on the side? How much HP are we talking? Maybe I can whip something up if you give me some more info about what you're looking for.

[Zarthrax]

Preferably, I'm looking for something along the lines of Incarnate/Warlock entry that advances Eldritch Blast and Soulmelds. Invocations are pretty much an after thought, although I would like to get a few Eldritch Essence ones as well as the aforementioned Incarnum ones. (Especially since the game I'm wanting this for is going to be epic level, so it's guaranteed that I can max it out. Also, I could use an epic progression for it as well, considering that I like the epic warlock feats very much...lol)

Also, thanks for the link. While I would prefer something I could get into with an Incarnate, if all else fails, that still happens to be something I can use.

[Xallace]

EDIT: Here it is (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7304448&postcount=3)


Also, thanks for the link. While I would prefer something I could get into with an Incarnate, if all else fails, that still happens to be something I can use.

Well, that one was made for a contest themed around fey stuff. I'd like to make a more generic warlock/incarnum PrC when I get the chance.

[For Valor]

Soulock
Make one more fairy joke, I dare you...

Hit Die: d8
Skills: 3 + IntMod
Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Know (arcana), Know (nature), Know (the planes), Profession, Spellcraft, UMD

Table: The Soulock
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff210/Dfriendz/SoulockTable.png

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: You are proficient with simple weapons, and light armor, but not shields. You are also proficient with all weapons that you create with your soulmelds.

Meldshaping: One of the Soulock's primary abilities is shaping incarnum soulmelds, which are drawn from either the Incarnate and Soulborn soulmeld lists. You know and can shape any soulmeld from this list. Unlike the Incarnate and Soulborn, you can shape soulmelds regardless of alignment.

The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a totemist soulmeld is 10 + the number of points of essentia invested in the soulmeld + you ConMod. Your meldshaper level is equal to your Soulock level.

A Soulock can shape only a certain number of soulmelds per day. Your base daily allotment is given on Table: The Soulock. The max number of soulmelds you can have shaped at any given time is equal to your Con Score - 10 or the number of soulmelds on the table, whichever is less.

You get a pool of essentia which you can invest into your soulmelds, but you can't exceed the standard (as per ususal) w/o feats or such shenanigans. You can reallocate your essentia as a Swift Action each round (MoI p.50).

You must have a good night's rest and meditate for an hour to shape your soulmelds for the day.

Chakra Binds: Starting at level 2, you can bind soulmelds to chakras for more power. You bind the soulmeld with a chakra given and it takes up the body slot associated with that chakra. The table shows how many chakras you can have active at a given time, and when you can bind certain kinds of chakras.

Eldritch Blast (Sp): RTA for 1d6/2 levels of typeless damage + ChaMod (yes, you add your ChaMod to the damage).

Soulock Ability: At 6th and 16th level, you can a Soulock ability. You pick one from the list below:

Incarnum Surge: You can increase the essentia of one of your soulmelds by your ChaMod for a numer of rounds equal to half your Cha Score. These rounds do not need to be used consecutively, and you can change your selected soulmeld or end the effect as a free action.
Invocation of Hopelessness: If you spend a full-round action on an Invocation that requires a save or SR, you can make it so the Invocation no longer allows a save or SR (choose one, not both). You may only use this effect a number of times per day equal to your ChaMod.
Improved Blast: Add +1d6 damage to all your Eldritch Blasts.
Greater Power: Learn 1 new invocation and increase your essentia by 2
Bonus Feat: You may take 1 [Incarnum] feat or 1 feat with the prerequisite of being a Warlock
Eldritch Globe: Your Eldritch Blasts can affect an area of effect with a radius of 5ft/level. You may use this ability ChaMod times per day


You know the rest... I'm too tired with writing this class to finish it up, though. After this, there are Invocations (which are covered). At 6th level, and every 3 levels thereafter, you can replace an old invocation you know with a new one of equal or lesser status than the best invocation you know. And Eldritch Blast as well as all the Invocations have somatic compoments and suffer from ASF.

This class qualifies for any feat that uses the Warlock Class as a prerequisite.

[Zarthrax]

Thanks! That's close enough to what I need that I don't even have to take a PrC!

Thanks for the assist!


Edit: What's Soulmeld Power do? It's listed on the chart, but not in the descriptions.

[Zarthrax]

Well, that one was made for a contest themed around fey stuff. I'd like to make a more generic warlock/incarnum PrC when I get the chance.

Feel free to toss it here if you get it finished! I'm open to using anything really! lol

[Morph Bark]

Curious how the class table says it gains invocations, but it does not show when it gains Least/Lesser/Greater/Dark Invocations...

Also, the way it looks seems prettymuch like a gestalt of Warlock and Incarnate or Totemist, but with the nice little fluffy abilities thrown out. Those "nice little fluffy abilities" may not be needed for this guy's character, but they don't do a whole lot to bring up a character's power level, so essentially, you got a one-and-a-half class there that is better than a Warlock and incarnum-user combined.

[Zarthrax]

Hmm. Good point. Got any tweaks for it to make it not completely overpowered then?

[Morph Bark]

Hmm. Good point. Got any tweaks for it to make it not completely overpowered then?

I can't really make something up on the fly so easily other than generic stuff, which I'd rather not do, because that would be... well, generic. Which is exactly what I was advocating against. I could do something with more time, but for now I think your best bet is either Xallace's PrC, which you could re-fluff to not have to do with fey as much, or use the Soulcaster PrC from Magic of Incarnum, since the Warlock still counts as an arcane spellcaster and thus would qualify for it.

Instead of Arcane Investment you could have an ability that allows you to invest essentia into your eldritch blast. For instance, you could gain one extra bonus damage die per essentia invested, but you can only invest 1 essentia at level 1, 2 essentia at level 4, 3 essentia at level 7 and 4 essentia at level 10. Furthermore, the target must make a Fort save (DC 10 + soulcaster level + Cha mod) or take 1 point of Con damage per 2 essentia invested.

Magical Distillation would obviously be gone then, too. To make up for it and because Warlocks aren't as weak as Sorcerers/Wizards physically, up the HD to a d6.

[Zarthrax]

THat sounds workable. Thanks!


Also, the fluff for the PrC isn't such a big deal to me. I kinda like the idea of being the vengeance of the dead Formorians incarnate....lol

[For Valor]

Invocation Access: I assumed it just followed the regular warlock's progression.

and Soulmeld Power was a typo that I should've gotten rid off. Pretend it's not there.

On the Subject of Power... What I did was take the warlock (a decent tier 4 class) and remove it's fluff (making it a middle tier 4 class) and then I added an Incarnate's powers, but decreased the number of soulmelds, chakras, and essentia.

This takes a mid tier-4 and adds it to a low tier-3 to make a high tier 3 to middle tier 2 (around the Favored Soul or a Binder with the Summon Monster Vestige), and you'll see, especially because there isn't a whole lot of synergy between the two classes. Trust me, this is hardly overpowered in any sense.

This also encourages a higher Charisma than the original Warlock, which decreases from the combat capabilities of the Soulock comparatively. Take the class and use it--you'll find that you're not too overpowered, unless your party is made out of fighters, monks, rogues, and the like.

[Glimbur]

It is painful that the Soulock does not get Expanded Essentia Capacity like an Incarnate or Totemist does.

I am somewhat concerned that this class ends up with more invocations than the warlock and it will probably have a stronger Eldritch Blast as well, assuming you choose Improved Blast. With Greater Power you get two more invocations than a warlock would and also more essentia than a totemist gets.

In short, this class is better at warlocking than a warlock and has significant incarnum powers as well. I would cut down the eldritch blast damage and the number of invocations. Some unique invocations would be cool too.

[IcarusWings]

I think, rather than creating a class which merely uses both systems, you should make a class which synergizes them. For example in the linked wild-themed PrC you could invest essentia into your Eldritch Blast etc. etc.

[For Valor]

It is painful that the Soulock does not get Expanded Essentia Capacity like an Incarnate or Totemist does.

I am somewhat concerned that this class ends up with more invocations than the warlock and it will probably have a stronger Eldritch Blast as well, assuming you choose Improved Blast. With Greater Power you get two more invocations than a warlock would and also more essentia than a totemist gets.

In short, this class is better at warlocking than a warlock and has significant incarnum powers as well. I would cut down the eldritch blast damage and the number of invocations. Some unique invocations would be cool too.

Actually, the Warlock I've melded in here isn't as effective. It focuses on encouraging saves and Charisma use, which hurts a class that wants to Con-focused (HP and Incarnum) and Battle-focused (Str/Dex for damage and to-hit). There's MAD going on here.

Also, this class was designed to have slightly less soulmelds, chakras, and essentia than the Incarnate. It also doesn't get Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, as you pointed out. And if you've played Incarnum games before, that's a big necessity. It's a weaker Incarnate applied to a weaker MAD-style Warlock. It's actually totally balanced, if not weak for its conflicting combat roles.

[Glimbur]

I don't see how this invoking class encourages Cha more than a regular warlock. Sure, you get Cha to eldritch blast damage now, but you could buy a 10 Cha for a fairly trivial point buy and be slightly ahead of a normal warlock in invocations known with a whole pile of incarnum besides.

Some soulmelds do require actions in combat, but many do not. It would be suboptimal to use Incarnate Weapon with this class, for example, when you could just eldritch blast. But shape the bluesteel bracers for a initiative bonus, the fellmist robe for a miss chance at range, the mage's spectacles for even more UMD prowess, the strongheart vest because it's nice to resist ability damage, the adamant pauldrons for the DR and fortification... it's quite possible to use only passive boosts from your soulmelds and play exactly like a warlock with more plusses and concealment and an alternate source of flight and... it's straight up better than warlock. That is my concern.

Why would this class want Str? Incarnate Weapon + Hideous Blow is a terrible idea, and I'm not sure what else Str is for besides carrying capacity.

[For Valor]

I don't see how this invoking class encourages Cha more than a regular warlock. Sure, you get Cha to eldritch blast damage now, but you could buy a 10 Cha for a fairly trivial point buy and be slightly ahead of a normal warlock in invocations known with a whole pile of incarnum besides.

Some soulmelds do require actions in combat, but many do not. It would be suboptimal to use Incarnate Weapon with this class, for example, when you could just eldritch blast. But shape the bluesteel bracers for a initiative bonus, the fellmist robe for a miss chance at range, the mage's spectacles for even more UMD prowess, the strongheart vest because it's nice to resist ability damage, the adamant pauldrons for the DR and fortification... it's quite possible to use only passive boosts from your soulmelds and play exactly like a warlock with more plusses and concealment and an alternate source of flight and... it's straight up better than warlock. That is my concern.

Why would this class want Str? Incarnate Weapon + Hideous Blow is a terrible idea, and I'm not sure what else Str is for besides carrying capacity.

Str was there in case you actually decided to pick up a weapon and use it. If you don't think that's a bad idea, so be it.

I was emphasizing Cha because the stronger Soulock abilities are dependent on it. Also, the class focuses less on blasting and on stuff like Flee The Scene, and more on Utterdark Blast and the 4 incarnum invocations from MoI.

Now I don't know too much about Incarnate soulmelds, but from what you're telling me, this is just a warlock with free items (no more shoes, but you can make boots with an Init boost!). Honestly, I don't feel too bad about that. The warlock wins his combats with specific gear and then uses his extra money to buy magic items that aren't equipment and weapons. So if we're just making the warlock (Tier 4 class) better... yeah, I think it's safe to say this can compete with the Bard and Swordsage.

EDIT: Also, you're ahead by 1 invocation 50% of the time. The other 50% of the time, you're ahead by 0... that kind of benefit is trivial to non-existant. However, I was thinking about cutting the invocations to 6 and then giving bonus invocations for a high Charisma.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The problem with most Incarnate Soulmelds is that good ones don't deal with saving throws. There are some choice Soulborn ones that would work well, and since your save is based off Con, that could work. Not terribly sure, though, as much of the Soulborn class itself is jank, so I've never really bothered to check out their melds.

Really, though, you don't need Cha for casting, you don't need Int, you don't need Wis, and if you're smart, you won't use Str. You throw a 10 into Cha, pump Dex for ranged attacks, and Con for the obvious.

I have to ask though: why is this class 30 levels long?

[For Valor]

The problem with most Incarnate Soulmelds is that good ones don't deal with saving throws. There are some choice Soulborn ones that would work well, and since your save is based off Con, that could work. Not terribly sure, though, as much of the Soulborn class itself is jank, so I've never really bothered to check out their melds.

Really, though, you don't need Cha for casting, you don't need Int, you don't need Wis, and if you're smart, you won't use Str. You throw a 10 into Cha, pump Dex for ranged attacks, and Con for the obvious.

I have to ask though: why is this class 30 levels long?

This means the class can act quickly, is pretty hard to hit, and throws 1 eldritch blast per round for an RTA dealing 1d6/2 levels damage. At low levels, all your saves are medium, and you don't get to use a lot of magic items (since your soulmelds fill up item slots).

And the class is 30 levels long because the guy who posted the OP said he was thinking about taking the class into epic, and I wanted to make the epic class at least slightly decent, so I continued eldritch blasts (as normal) and increased the invocations and incarnum-stuff instead of adding occasional epic feats (which would involve making a feat list, which would suck).

[Glimbur]

At low levels, all your saves are medium, and you don't get to use a lot of magic items (since your soulmelds fill up item slots).

That's only true if you bind the soulmeld to your chakra. A shaped soulmeld does not fill a magic item slot.

With Greater Power and Improved Blast you are better than a warlock. The other Soulock powers are interesting, mainly Eldritch Globe, but passive boosts are nice because they are passive.

Other classes get significantly less per level in epic, making one class in particular break this rule gives it a significant boost in comparative power in Epic... which is Epic anyway, and even more difficult to work with than ~16-20 level.

[For Valor]

That's only true if you bind the soulmeld to your chakra. A shaped soulmeld does not fill a magic item slot.

With Greater Power and Improved Blast you are better than a warlock. The other Soulock powers are interesting, mainly Eldritch Globe, but passive boosts are nice because they are passive.

Other classes get significantly less per level in epic, making one class in particular break this rule gives it a significant boost in comparative power in Epic... which is Epic anyway, and even more difficult to work with than ~16-20 level.
On soulmelds: Right. Forgot that bit. My point still stands, though it is less effective.

On passive abilities: I do agree. But Greater Power doesn't exactly make me j*zz, and getting +1d6 to blasts isn't all that fantastic after, like 10th level, IMO. Oh! Also, you don't get enhancements to your Eldritch Blasts, which I like.

On epic: I kinda said "screw it" with this. Honestly, if the Wildshape Ranger can turn into a Dragon during epic, and casters can invent spells, I'm not going to waste my time writing up a feat list....