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View Full Version : Hydra's and Crusaders(3.5)



Nightmarenny
2010-07-13, 06:36 PM
So, for the next session of my campaign I have two encounters lined up that I could use some help with. First the easier of the two. I plan on pitting my players against a trio of Crusaders(on of which must be an ex-paladin) that equals EL-8. Are there any neat builds I could use to give my players a memorable fight? I also want to work in one having a magic Warhammer as their Barbarian just lost his masterwork axe to a shatter spell.

With the Hydra's my plan is to have them in a sewer with a 5ft line of water at each edge and the walkway they stand on is old and weak. The water runs under it and standing to long in some spots could brake a square of walkway. So most of the places the hydra's come up from is only 5-5ft. They just stick there head out and attack. So my thinking is that attacking the Hydra when they come up that way must always require the a sunder attack. How would you run it?

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-13, 07:09 PM
How good is your group. The crusader class can be mean to a party not ready for self healing tanks with debuffs. Post your groups levels so we have a baseline not to kill.

A warhammer sounds like a stone dragon focus. Consider having the other ones a white raven focus / greyguard and a devoted spirit. The three will be very hard to kill.

Nightmarenny
2010-07-13, 07:31 PM
How good is your group. The crusader class can be mean to a party not ready for self healing tanks with debuffs. Post your groups levels so we have a baseline not to kill.

They are all level 5 but they have been escaping encounters of high level pretty easily and I really wanna give them a challenge. These guys are also the first appearance of an evil Organization that will most likely be the big bads of the campaign so I want them to take these guys seriously. If they barely defeat 3 today than if 7 appear tomorrow I want them feel dread.

5 Half-Orc barbarian(very dmg maxed he's not smart by even Orc standards but he does very good damage)
5 Paladin(predictably bad dmg he's been one of the least powerful members of the group since day one and I'm looking for a way to help him.
3Wiz 2Clc(low power overall but he play very batman so he still manages to contribute a lot)
5 Cleric(very CoDzilla not much healboting)
1 Pixie Fighter(not very strong offense but the player is creative and has wreaked more than a couple plans of mine)
4 Rogue

They play well and I sometimes forget something I should have done in combat.

Roc Ness
2010-07-13, 07:35 PM
5 Paladin(predictably bad dmg he's been one of the least powerful members of the group since day one and I'm looking for a way to help him.

In the same vein of giving one of the Crusader's a magic warhammer, maybe give that Ex-paladin Crusader a Holy Avenger?

Nightmarenny
2010-07-13, 07:40 PM
In the same vein of giving one of the Crusader's a magic warhammer, maybe give that Ex-paladin Crusader a Holy Avenger?

Wouldn't that be to high level? Also I just gave them a +1 sword and +1 armor so I'm a little afraid of giving him to much loot. I haven't really given the Cleric or Wizard anything of note. Still... if it isn't to high level a weapon I might just.

Lhurgyof
2010-07-13, 08:07 PM
There's a monster in the Monsters of Faerun book that might suit you, the Gulguthydra. It's like a cross between an Otyugh and a Hydra.

It's in Monsters of Faerun, on page 58.

It looks like this:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG58b.jpg

Nightmarenny
2010-07-13, 08:45 PM
I'll check it out when I can. Either way the Hydra encounter should work I'm just not sure about how to rule it. I'll try explaining it again. A Hydra dwells bellow the floor, when prey approaches it it uses a 5ft by 5ft hole in the floor to attack from. Instead of trying to force its way out, most of its mass stays shielded under the floor. It just sticks its heads above and tries to bite at them and pull a creature in.

So since they can only attack the head do I allow a normal attack? Are they forced to sunder if they want to strait attack?

AslanCross
2010-07-13, 09:15 PM
I'll check it out when I can. Either way the Hydra encounter should work I'm just not sure about how to rule it. I'll try explaining it again. A Hydra dwells bellow the floor, when prey approaches it it uses a 5ft by 5ft hole in the floor to attack from. Instead of trying to force its way out, most of its mass stays shielded under the floor. It just sticks its heads above and tries to bite at them and pull a creature in.

So since they can only attack the head do I allow a normal attack? Are they forced to sunder if they want to strait attack?

1. The hydra will have a hard time pulling in a creature that way. If I'm not mistaken, a creature can only initiate a grapple with a single body part if it has Improved Grab, and if it does so it has a -20 penalty. Otherwise, to bodily pull in a victim, it needs to make an grapple attempt (with its whole body).

2. It's good to protect the main body, since it's frankly much easier to simply attack the body until it dies. The Hydra's Fast Healing is rarely enough to make it seem like an impenetrable mass of HP.

3. The RAW on the monster is pretty clear: You can only chop off the heads if you use the sunder special attack.

4. Having only one head come out of the hole at a time negates the Hydra's primary advantage: It can full attack without slowing down.

I suggest you have the players on a hanging bridge that sags low over the water (a fast-flowing river of sewage). The hydra hides its main body directly underneath the bridge, and uses its reach to attack anyone passing above. This way the main body is shielded (at the very least has cover) against the PCs by the hanging bridge, and the PCs will have to risk taking a swim to attack the main body. The flow of water makes it hard to swim, and they also risk getting sick if they get injured while in the sewage.

Having the body completely shielded might be too frustrating; putting the hydra in a difficult-but-possible-to-reach place might be more exciting and rewarding.

Runestar
2010-07-13, 10:33 PM
Trio of choker (advanced to 4HD) crusader4. With extra granted maneuver, your maneuvers automatically refresh every 3rd round, while the choker's extra action lets him use 2 maneuvers every round. It's a match made in heaven.:smallsmile:

Lhurgyof
2010-07-13, 10:44 PM
Yeah, the hydra would do better in an environment where it could get its full attack.

But yes, they'd have to sunder it.

And I suggested the Gulguthydra because it fits it, Otyughs live in filth and sewage, so a cross between that and a hydra seems to make sense. xD

Lans
2010-07-14, 12:06 AM
5 Paladin(predictably bad dmg he's been one of the least powerful members of the group since day one and I'm looking for a way to help him.


Do you have access to sandstorm? I you can give him a Diprotodon mount that will go a long way to helping him out.
You can also refluff the pact inferneus from Fiend Folio 2 and have him do a pact with a celestial.

Battlecaster that make his spells swift actions would be a good choice to advice him to with his next feat.

Nightmarenny
2010-07-14, 12:37 AM
I havent heard of the battlecaster feat. That sounds awesome. What book is it in? I was going to let him use leadership. I know its supposed to be overpowered but story-wise it makes sense. He wants to start a paladins order(limiting his cohort and and all his minions to paladins should prevent overpowered-ness, I hope) to get past a the ward on a relic. Several other characters through various means will have small armies at their disposal and I intend at least one massive "heroes of battle" siege so they should prove useful and the need to split up to achieve multiple goals should keep his minions out of the way for most of the game. My party has an extreme fear of splitting the party.:smalltongue:

I was looking over a prestige class in Exalted Deeds. The one where you must die first and then you become a deathless. Think it has Martyr in the name. Is that one any good?

olentu
2010-07-14, 01:36 AM
I havent heard of the battlecaster feat. That sounds awesome. What book is it in? I was going to let him use leadership. I know its supposed to be overpowered but story-wise it makes sense. He wants to start a paladins order(limiting his cohort and and all his minions to paladins should prevent overpowered-ness, I hope) to get past a the ward on a relic. Several other characters through various means will have small armies at their disposal and I intend at least one massive "heroes of battle" siege so they should prove useful and the need to split up to achieve multiple goals should keep his minions out of the way for most of the game. My party has an extreme fear of splitting the party.:smalltongue:

I was looking over a prestige class in Exalted Deeds. The one where you must die first and then you become a deathless. Think it has Martyr in the name. Is that one any good?

Battlecaster is perhaps the battle blessing feat from complete champion.

Runestar
2010-07-14, 02:06 AM
Here's a summary of the choker crusader's stats and abilities. And I had forgotten that crusaders can take white raven tactics, so they can generate a ton of actions between them. :smallbiggrin:

'm sure the most perceptive minds here have already figured out the title, and what it implies. For the rest...well, I hope your players don't mind a rather brutal challenge.

This is the first in what will, hopefully, become a series of posts providing enemies for an optimized party; this particular encounter should match up well against even well optimized PCs. It uses only the Core books and Tome of Battle.

If anyone has formatting suggestions, please send me a PM with them; I'm not at all good with this opening stuff, and I'd like to replace it with something cleaner, crisper, and neater. Generally, better looking, since I do want to turn this into a series.

Anyway, babbling aside, here's the good stuff.

The Crusader, with its automatic reloading of martial maneuvers, has incredible stamina in a fight; the healing available in Devoted Spirit only enhances this. Naturally, any increase in maneuvers used will only enhance the advantage granted by this reloading method, but extra standard actions are difficult for a PC to find.

The universal truth of D&D, Evil Always Wins, holds true even here.

I don't want to risk a mod coming and smacking me, and these stats aren't too hard to derive anyway. I'm giving just enough to judge the threat potential of this monster.

CR 6

Choker Crusader 4
Hit Dice: 3d8+4d10+21 (60 hp)
Initiative: +7
Armor Class: 22 (+1 Size, +3 Dex, +4 Natural, +4 Armor)
Attack: +14 Melee (1d10+9)
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 4 (+1 to Str at 4 HD)
Feats: Improved Initiative (b), Extra Granted Maneuver, Stone Power, Combat Reflexes

Equipment: Chain Shirt, Masterwork Greatsword

Tactics: Maneuver spam, plain and simple. Two standard actions a round means two Strikes initiated a round, and the Crusader reload mechanic means there's no reason not to work fast. With four first level maneuvers, a second, and a third (initiator level of 5 at Crusader 4), I suggest the following:

Charging Minotaur, Crusader's Strike, Douse the Flames, Stone Bones, Mountain Hammer, and White Raven Tactics, with Martial Spirit the obvious stance. Revitalizing Strike can easily be subbed in to replace White Raven Tactics, if the party's damage output is expected to be high and their defenses weak. Douse the Flames will normally be left unreadied, but if the party lacks any arcane casters (who the Choker can likely bull rush successfully) then it may be worthwhile to keep it ready.

Charging Minotaur is only practical against arcane casters, but against them it will be awesome. Ignoring attacks of opportunity while getting into melee with an arcane caster is well worth a maneuver, and the bonus damage is icing on the cake; if it succeeds, dropping a Mountain Hammer can take the caster entirely out of the battle. If White Raven Tactics is ready, well...the party is, frankly, screwed.

Otherwise, the combination of Martial Spirit, Stone Bones, Crusader's Strike, and Stone Power all but ensure that the Choker will survive long enough to dish out serious damage; 1d10+9 twice a round is no joke at level 6. Mountain Hammer makes an excellent finisher, with an average damage of 21 every time it lands.

Normally single monsters fare poorly against PCs of equal level since the monster cannot match the PCs shot for shot. Between an extra standard action and the beauty that is White Raven Tactics, this one can. I left the gear minimal intentionally, as anyone using this opponent will need to use the gold to flesh out his defenses.