zugschef
2010-07-13, 08:13 PM
VARIANT: Skill Groups
I. Introduction
II. Basic Mechanic
III. Floating Skillpoints
IV. Cross-class Skills and Multiclassing
V. Skill Synergy
VI. Skill Groups
VII. Speak Language
VIII. Skill Tricks
IV. New Feat: Extra Skill Group [General]
I. Introduction
This variant was designed by dobu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=41080) and me.
For us, the skill system in d20 is restricting and unbalanced. With this variant we attempt to improve flexibility and, of course, give skill-starved classes, such as the fighter, the skills they really need to succeed. It has always bothered us that a high intelligence score decides whether a character can spend skillpoints on skills like jump or tumble. Another goal was to get rid of cross-class skills and make the variant easy to implement.
The basic idea originates from the weapon group variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm) in the srd (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm). Analog to this variant, skill groups allow players to customize their characters. As an example, from now on you are not restricted to the bookly wizard. You can play a real war wizard by selecting the magic and warfare skill groups. The groups are easily and quickly implemented, too. You do not need to change classes, you could even implement this variant in an ongoing campaign with minimal effort.
This variant also succeeds in reducing the royal status of intelligence among the mental abilities and lowers the difference of the importance between the basic stats. It lets you play an extraordinarily dumb but extremely charming and creative bard, since you can dump intelligence and solely focus on your charisma score.
Further, normally characters, who cannot afford to have a high intelligence score and are not human, are really crippled when their classes only provide 2 skillpoints. The 2 floating skillpoints and the 2 or more skill groups which every character gets in this variant, take care of this flaw and provide at least 4 skillpoints and tedious cross-class skills will no longer cause any trouble.
Since there are no more cross-class skills, another aspect of this variant is that the able learner feat becomes pointless. This has the positive side-effect that a lot of builds will open up for races different than human.
We are well aware of the fact that every class gets more skillpoints as before, but we are convinced that this variant still does not enable classes to do it all. A rogue still won't have the skillpoints to be the scout, the trickster AND the partyface. The only problem which may arise, is that players may have too many skills in a campaign where they start with extremely high ability scores. But since you have a limited access to skill groups, it should work just fine with the 28/32/36 point-buy method.
Thus, the possibility that a score may be particularly high and hence may provide a lot of skillpoints, is balanced by the limited skill group access and the fact that every group has a short list of skills and therefor, excessive skillpoints are simply lost and naturally capped respectively. We think that picking up additional skills in a skill group you have access to at a high level is not problematic, it is only natural.
Skill groups do not all have the same amount of skills listed, and skill groups even have different key abilities. Also, some skills appear on more than one skill list. This represents the fact that some skill groups are more appropriate for some classes, and that some skills are more potent than others and are of course more important to particular classes. Some skill groups have a lot of appealing skills which makes it difficult to skill them all. Trickery, for instance, is a group most rogues will want to have. Normally a rogue won't have more than 14 points in either key ability (WIS/CHA) and will only be able to put points into two skills of this group. But she can get some of the missing skills via the stealth group and the floating skillpoints. A typical bard without the stealth group, however, gets one skill group less than the rogue, but has enough charisma to get all he needs out of trickery.
We are confident that this variant as a whole should work well.
And yes, every class can have umd. ;-)
[tl;dr]
We designed a flexible replacement for the current skill system, which allows more customization and requires no changes to existing classes. Oh, and it helps the beatsticks, too.
II. Basic Mechanic
With this variant, you choose freely from nine different skill groups (see below) once at the first level of a class (may it be a base or a prestige class), and do not receive skillpoints as normal. Classes with 2 skillpoints per level choose 2 groups, classes with 4 choose 3, classes with 6 get 4 und classes with 8 skillpoints get access to 5 skill groups.
Every group has between one or three key abilities. Your corresponding ability with the highest modifier indicates how many skillpoints you get to spend for this group (multiply skillpoints by 4 on first level as normal). Tordek the fighter, for instance, has a strength score of 18 (modifier of +4), a score of 16 in constitution (+3) and 12 dexterity (+1) and takes the acrobatics&athletics skill group. Thus, he may spend 4 skillpoints per level (16 on first level) on skills from this group. You get at least 1 skillpoint to spend on a chosen group, even when your modifier is +0 or lower: Tordek takes warfare as his second skill group and has a modifier of 0 in wisdom and intelligence. He gets one skillpoint (4 at first level) to spend in this skillgroup anyway.
If a particular skill is listed in two different groups, choose in which group you want to spend skillpoints on this skill. Theoretically, you could spend skillpoints twice and increase the skill in two different groups, the maximum rank in a skill is still character level +3, however.
This new mechanic does not have any effects on how you resolve skill checks. The skills themselves still have their original key abilities.
Intelligence-penalty variant (subject to debate):
With this variant, you choose freely from nine different skill groups (see below) once at the first level of a class (may it be a base or a prestige class), and do not receive skillpoints as normal. Classes with 2 skillpoints per level choose 2 groups, classes with 4 choose 3, classes with 6 get 4 und classes with 8 skillpoints get access to 5 skill groups.
Every group has between one or three key abilities. Your corresponding ability with the highest modifier indicates how many skillpoints you get to spend for this group (multiply skillpoints by 4 on first level as normal), with a minimum of 1 skillpoint per group selected. You get your intelligence modifier as a penalty if it is negative, however:
skillpoints per group (minimum 1) = key ability modifier + intelligence modifier (maximum 0).
Tordek the fighter, for instance, has a strength score of 18 (modifier of +4), a score of 16 in constitution (+3), a score of 8 in intelligence (-1) and 12 dexterity (+1) and takes the acrobatics&athletics skill group. Thus, he may spend 3 skillpoints per level (12 on first level) on skills from this group. You get at least 1 skillpoint to spend on a chosen group, even when your modifier is +0 or lower: Tordek takes warfare as his second skill group and has a modifier of +0 in wisdom. He gets one skillpoint (4 at first level) to spend in this skillgroup anyway.
If a particular skill is listed in two different groups, choose in which group you want to spend skillpoints on this skill. Theoretically, you could spend skillpoints twice and increase the skill in two different groups, the maximum rank in a skill is still character level +3, however.
This new mechanic does not have any effects on how you resolve skill checks. The skills themselves still have their original key abilities.
III. Floating Skillpoints
Every character gains 2 floating skillpoints per level (8 on first level) in addition, which you may spend on any skill you like. This amout is regardless of how much intelligence a character has. Humans get one extra floating skillpoint per level (4 extra on first level).
Redgar is a human fighter and allthough he has taken the warfare and acrobatics&athletics skill groups he may spend 3 skillpoints on any skill, even if it's from a skill group he has not selected such as survival or bluff. Nevertheless, he could also spend these three skillpoints on any skill in acrobatics&athletics or warfare.
IV. Cross-class Skills and Multiclassing
With this variant there is no such thing as a cross-class skill. To increase skills which are not listed on any of your current class' skill groups, you have to spend floating skill points.
If you multiclass you get to choose as many skill groups as appropriate for the new class when you take its first level. You do not gain skillpoints in groups which you have not selected with your current class. You can, however, spend floating skillpoints on skills from these groups as explained above.
V. Skill Synergy
Boni for skill synergy are gained as normal.
VI. Skill Groups
{table=head]Group|Key Abilities|Skills
Acrobatics&Athletics|STR/DEX/CON|Balance, climb, concentration, escape artist, jump, ride, swim, tumble, use rope.
Culture|INT/WIS/CHA|Appraise, craft, decipher script, heal, knowledge (nobility, history, local, religion), perform, profession.
Magic|INT/WIS/CHA|Concentration, knowledge (arcana, religion, nature, planes), spellcraft, umd.
Perception|WIS|Listen, search, sense motive, spot.
Social Interaction|CHA|Bluff, diplomacy, gather information, intimidate, sense motive.
Stealth|DEX|Disguise, hide, move silently, sleight of hands.
Trickery|INT/CHA|Disable device, disguise, forgery, open lock, sleight of hands, umd.
Warfare|INT/WIS|Concentration, gather information, heal, intimidate, knowledge (architecture, dungeoneering, geography), spot.
Wilderness|WIS/CHA|Handle animal, heal, knowledge (geography, nature), survival, use rope.
[/table]
VII. Speak Language
In order to learn a language you must spend floating skillpoints. By spending 2 floating skillpoints you learn a language's fundamentals (spoken and written, unless you are illiterate). To master it, you need to spend another 2 floating skillpoints. Classes that normally have speak language as a class skill only need to spend half as much skillpoints to learn a language: 1 skillpoint for the fundamentals and 2 floating skillpoints to master it.
This skill is otherwise unchanged.
VIII. Skill Tricks
In order to learn a skill trick you have to spend your floating skillpoints.
IV. New Feat
Extra Skill Group [General]
Normal: You gain a number of skill groups according to your class' skillpoints.
Benefit: Choose one skill group. This group is permanently added to your list of skill groups of all your classes.
I. Introduction
II. Basic Mechanic
III. Floating Skillpoints
IV. Cross-class Skills and Multiclassing
V. Skill Synergy
VI. Skill Groups
VII. Speak Language
VIII. Skill Tricks
IV. New Feat: Extra Skill Group [General]
I. Introduction
This variant was designed by dobu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=41080) and me.
For us, the skill system in d20 is restricting and unbalanced. With this variant we attempt to improve flexibility and, of course, give skill-starved classes, such as the fighter, the skills they really need to succeed. It has always bothered us that a high intelligence score decides whether a character can spend skillpoints on skills like jump or tumble. Another goal was to get rid of cross-class skills and make the variant easy to implement.
The basic idea originates from the weapon group variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm) in the srd (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm). Analog to this variant, skill groups allow players to customize their characters. As an example, from now on you are not restricted to the bookly wizard. You can play a real war wizard by selecting the magic and warfare skill groups. The groups are easily and quickly implemented, too. You do not need to change classes, you could even implement this variant in an ongoing campaign with minimal effort.
This variant also succeeds in reducing the royal status of intelligence among the mental abilities and lowers the difference of the importance between the basic stats. It lets you play an extraordinarily dumb but extremely charming and creative bard, since you can dump intelligence and solely focus on your charisma score.
Further, normally characters, who cannot afford to have a high intelligence score and are not human, are really crippled when their classes only provide 2 skillpoints. The 2 floating skillpoints and the 2 or more skill groups which every character gets in this variant, take care of this flaw and provide at least 4 skillpoints and tedious cross-class skills will no longer cause any trouble.
Since there are no more cross-class skills, another aspect of this variant is that the able learner feat becomes pointless. This has the positive side-effect that a lot of builds will open up for races different than human.
We are well aware of the fact that every class gets more skillpoints as before, but we are convinced that this variant still does not enable classes to do it all. A rogue still won't have the skillpoints to be the scout, the trickster AND the partyface. The only problem which may arise, is that players may have too many skills in a campaign where they start with extremely high ability scores. But since you have a limited access to skill groups, it should work just fine with the 28/32/36 point-buy method.
Thus, the possibility that a score may be particularly high and hence may provide a lot of skillpoints, is balanced by the limited skill group access and the fact that every group has a short list of skills and therefor, excessive skillpoints are simply lost and naturally capped respectively. We think that picking up additional skills in a skill group you have access to at a high level is not problematic, it is only natural.
Skill groups do not all have the same amount of skills listed, and skill groups even have different key abilities. Also, some skills appear on more than one skill list. This represents the fact that some skill groups are more appropriate for some classes, and that some skills are more potent than others and are of course more important to particular classes. Some skill groups have a lot of appealing skills which makes it difficult to skill them all. Trickery, for instance, is a group most rogues will want to have. Normally a rogue won't have more than 14 points in either key ability (WIS/CHA) and will only be able to put points into two skills of this group. But she can get some of the missing skills via the stealth group and the floating skillpoints. A typical bard without the stealth group, however, gets one skill group less than the rogue, but has enough charisma to get all he needs out of trickery.
We are confident that this variant as a whole should work well.
And yes, every class can have umd. ;-)
[tl;dr]
We designed a flexible replacement for the current skill system, which allows more customization and requires no changes to existing classes. Oh, and it helps the beatsticks, too.
II. Basic Mechanic
With this variant, you choose freely from nine different skill groups (see below) once at the first level of a class (may it be a base or a prestige class), and do not receive skillpoints as normal. Classes with 2 skillpoints per level choose 2 groups, classes with 4 choose 3, classes with 6 get 4 und classes with 8 skillpoints get access to 5 skill groups.
Every group has between one or three key abilities. Your corresponding ability with the highest modifier indicates how many skillpoints you get to spend for this group (multiply skillpoints by 4 on first level as normal). Tordek the fighter, for instance, has a strength score of 18 (modifier of +4), a score of 16 in constitution (+3) and 12 dexterity (+1) and takes the acrobatics&athletics skill group. Thus, he may spend 4 skillpoints per level (16 on first level) on skills from this group. You get at least 1 skillpoint to spend on a chosen group, even when your modifier is +0 or lower: Tordek takes warfare as his second skill group and has a modifier of 0 in wisdom and intelligence. He gets one skillpoint (4 at first level) to spend in this skillgroup anyway.
If a particular skill is listed in two different groups, choose in which group you want to spend skillpoints on this skill. Theoretically, you could spend skillpoints twice and increase the skill in two different groups, the maximum rank in a skill is still character level +3, however.
This new mechanic does not have any effects on how you resolve skill checks. The skills themselves still have their original key abilities.
Intelligence-penalty variant (subject to debate):
With this variant, you choose freely from nine different skill groups (see below) once at the first level of a class (may it be a base or a prestige class), and do not receive skillpoints as normal. Classes with 2 skillpoints per level choose 2 groups, classes with 4 choose 3, classes with 6 get 4 und classes with 8 skillpoints get access to 5 skill groups.
Every group has between one or three key abilities. Your corresponding ability with the highest modifier indicates how many skillpoints you get to spend for this group (multiply skillpoints by 4 on first level as normal), with a minimum of 1 skillpoint per group selected. You get your intelligence modifier as a penalty if it is negative, however:
skillpoints per group (minimum 1) = key ability modifier + intelligence modifier (maximum 0).
Tordek the fighter, for instance, has a strength score of 18 (modifier of +4), a score of 16 in constitution (+3), a score of 8 in intelligence (-1) and 12 dexterity (+1) and takes the acrobatics&athletics skill group. Thus, he may spend 3 skillpoints per level (12 on first level) on skills from this group. You get at least 1 skillpoint to spend on a chosen group, even when your modifier is +0 or lower: Tordek takes warfare as his second skill group and has a modifier of +0 in wisdom. He gets one skillpoint (4 at first level) to spend in this skillgroup anyway.
If a particular skill is listed in two different groups, choose in which group you want to spend skillpoints on this skill. Theoretically, you could spend skillpoints twice and increase the skill in two different groups, the maximum rank in a skill is still character level +3, however.
This new mechanic does not have any effects on how you resolve skill checks. The skills themselves still have their original key abilities.
III. Floating Skillpoints
Every character gains 2 floating skillpoints per level (8 on first level) in addition, which you may spend on any skill you like. This amout is regardless of how much intelligence a character has. Humans get one extra floating skillpoint per level (4 extra on first level).
Redgar is a human fighter and allthough he has taken the warfare and acrobatics&athletics skill groups he may spend 3 skillpoints on any skill, even if it's from a skill group he has not selected such as survival or bluff. Nevertheless, he could also spend these three skillpoints on any skill in acrobatics&athletics or warfare.
IV. Cross-class Skills and Multiclassing
With this variant there is no such thing as a cross-class skill. To increase skills which are not listed on any of your current class' skill groups, you have to spend floating skill points.
If you multiclass you get to choose as many skill groups as appropriate for the new class when you take its first level. You do not gain skillpoints in groups which you have not selected with your current class. You can, however, spend floating skillpoints on skills from these groups as explained above.
V. Skill Synergy
Boni for skill synergy are gained as normal.
VI. Skill Groups
{table=head]Group|Key Abilities|Skills
Acrobatics&Athletics|STR/DEX/CON|Balance, climb, concentration, escape artist, jump, ride, swim, tumble, use rope.
Culture|INT/WIS/CHA|Appraise, craft, decipher script, heal, knowledge (nobility, history, local, religion), perform, profession.
Magic|INT/WIS/CHA|Concentration, knowledge (arcana, religion, nature, planes), spellcraft, umd.
Perception|WIS|Listen, search, sense motive, spot.
Social Interaction|CHA|Bluff, diplomacy, gather information, intimidate, sense motive.
Stealth|DEX|Disguise, hide, move silently, sleight of hands.
Trickery|INT/CHA|Disable device, disguise, forgery, open lock, sleight of hands, umd.
Warfare|INT/WIS|Concentration, gather information, heal, intimidate, knowledge (architecture, dungeoneering, geography), spot.
Wilderness|WIS/CHA|Handle animal, heal, knowledge (geography, nature), survival, use rope.
[/table]
VII. Speak Language
In order to learn a language you must spend floating skillpoints. By spending 2 floating skillpoints you learn a language's fundamentals (spoken and written, unless you are illiterate). To master it, you need to spend another 2 floating skillpoints. Classes that normally have speak language as a class skill only need to spend half as much skillpoints to learn a language: 1 skillpoint for the fundamentals and 2 floating skillpoints to master it.
This skill is otherwise unchanged.
VIII. Skill Tricks
In order to learn a skill trick you have to spend your floating skillpoints.
IV. New Feat
Extra Skill Group [General]
Normal: You gain a number of skill groups according to your class' skillpoints.
Benefit: Choose one skill group. This group is permanently added to your list of skill groups of all your classes.