[3.5] Dragoon Arcanamach

[Dusk Eclipse]

I was wondering if a Suel Arcanamach would make a good dragoon build.

Right now the only thing I see is just getting Battlejump but I am sure the great minds of the playgrounds can help me improve my concept:smallwink:

Oh and for the record I am thinking on improving an "Impure" Arcanamach build

Wildshape Ranger 2*/Duskblade2/Fighter 1/Abjurant Champion 1/Suel Arcanamach 1/Abjurant Champion +4/Inpure Prince 6/Dragon Disciple 3 (or another one)

Also the best race for this build I believe would be a Dragonborn Lesser Aasimar for stats modifiers of -2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha.

*I remember reading somewhere that you could chain variants and ACF, for example getting feat rogue and then change the feats for dungeoncrasher. In this case trading the fast movement of the wildshape ranger for pounce. (if anyone can help me by either reffuting my claim or supporting please do so).

Thanks in advance

[The Rabbler]

*I remember reading somewhere that you could chain variants and ACF, for example getting feat rogue and then change the feats for dungeoncrasher. In this case trading the fast movement of the wildshape ranger for pounce. (if anyone can help me by either reffuting my claim or supporting please do so).


This seems a bit silly. I understand the reasoning behind it, but, as it applies to D&D, the transitive property usually fails unless explicitly allowed. Besides, why not just take the level of barbarian? It'd even make you better at hitting things.

also, you might want to spellcheck a bit...

[Dusk Eclipse]

Reasons why I prefer to try variant chaining:

1) Impure prince requirement are much easier to accomplish through ranger, other wise I need to burn another feat, and I think this particular build will be very feat-starved.

2) I don't like barbarians (I now about refluffling but I simply don't like them)

3) My DM enforces aligment and I prefer to play lawful characters, so the other reason to be a barbarian (rage) is off the table.

[Math_Mage]

You can replace the fast movement with whirling frenzy, since whirling frenzy is a variant on fast movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) and not on the barbarian class specifically. I don't know if this applies to Dungeoncrasher.

[Dusk Eclipse]

You can replace the fast movement with whirling frenzy, since whirling frenzy is a variant on fast movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) and not on the barbarian class specifically. I don't know if this applies to Dungeoncrasher.

Thanks, but I think you got confused, Whirling Frenzy is a variant of Rage:smallwink:



Rage Variant: Whirling Frenzy

A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn't gain the normal bonuses when he enters a rage. Instead, when a barbarian with whirling frenzy enters a rage, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the barbarian might make before his next action.

Whirling frenzy is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways. At 11th level (when a standard barbarian gains greater rage), the Strength bonus increases to +6, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +3. At 20th level (when a standard barbarian gains mighty rage), the Strength bonus increases to +8, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +4.

A barbarian using this variant doesn't gain indomitable will at 14th level. Instead, he gains evasion, but only while in a whirling frenzy.

A character can't use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability).

[Keld Denar]

Impure Prince is 5/6 casting right? The first level has no casting? Also, isn't Impure Prince full BAB? Or is it 3/4 BAB.

If it is 5/6 casting and full BAB, if you can, try to sneak the first level in BEFORE 7 when you take your first Arcanamach level. This allows you to progress your Arcanamach casting faster once you start it. You can do a similar trick with Cyran Avenger.

Cyran Avenger might work well too. It give Sudden Strike, IIRC, which you can activate on a charge with Neraph Charge (Dragonborn Neraph are still qualify for Neraph feats, right?). This allows you to stack on Staggering Strike, so if your Dragooooooooon leap doesn't kill your foe, at least they won't be able to full attack you back due to the DC100+ fort save they have to make vs Staggering Strike.

Jump is a Transmutation, so you can totally learn it with your Suel casting, otherwise, isn't it on the Duskblade list? Swift Expeditious Retreat would be another good spell to pick up on either list, and the Versatile Spellcaster would allow you to swap slots back and forth (as well as power higher level slots). Just a couple thoughts.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Impure prince is 4/6 casting (lost at first and sixth level) and it has full bab, and I can get the first level at 6th... the problem is that the expanded spell list (one of the reasons I like Impure Prince) would be added to Duskblade casting so it would be a loss.

And I would like to get the Martial Arcanist abilty of Abjurant Champion ASAP.
I will also give a look at neraphs (they are in planar handbook right?)


Thanks for the suggestions, will look into them tomorrow.

[Endarire]

May Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood_A_Tale_of_38_Guide_to_the_ 35_Dragoon) inspire you.

[Fizban]

Cyran Avenger might work well too. It give Sudden Strike, IIRC

Nope, I looked it up when the other Arcanamach thread mentioned it. It gives you a smite ability that deals d6's and gives you more uses with cha.

Really, you can make a "dragoon" build out of anything, all you need is Battle Jump. I don't want to jump through the hoops of getting the high jump check, so I'd drop Leap Attack and get it by teleporting with Boots of Swift Passage for example. UMD or otherwise activate a wand of Rhino's Rush on top of that and you can deal plenty enough damage with a single attack after teleporting above their head.

While the Little Red Riding Hood thread was interesting, I was quite dissapointed in it due to the above reasons. The builds weren't really needed at all, since almost all of the damage was being dealt through weapon enhancements like Valorous and that vaulting Halberd. He even admits it when in the entry for Battle Jump, the only feat that actually sets a "dragoon" apart from any other leap attacker, he says that you can live without it if you DM won't give in to begging. And you can if you're just getting all your damage from obscure magic item multipliers.

*Yes I know I scorned the vaulting and Valorous weapons right after I suggested a wand of Rhino's Rush. Rhino's Rush only works on one attack and wands have charges, it's hardly as broken. I do think the vaulting Halberd thingy is pretty cool, but stacking that with Valorous and a bunch of other modifiers that anyone could buy with cash cheapens the whole point of the exercise, to make a character that jumps high and stabs hard.

[Chronos Flame]

Are you a player trying to pull this off or the DM trying to slip a dragoon into the game? If the latter, I have a homebrew dragoon (two versions, PrC and Base), that I made for a campaign I'm running based around Final Fantasy. You are welcome to it if you'd like me to send them to you. If the former, i would still send them to you if you like. Depending on the DM he may allow it. Who knows.

[Math_Mage]

Thanks, but I think you got confused, Whirling Frenzy is a variant of Rage:smallwink:

Wow, not paying attention at all *sigh*

Lion Totem is a variant for barbarians, not for rangers with the relevant barbarian class feature. The existence of trades like Whirling Frenzy makes the distinction clear. However, as always, your DM gets the final say. Mine allowed it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

May Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood_A_Tale_of_38_Guide_to_the_ 35_Dragoon) inspire you.

The guide actually inspired me; and already bookmarked and read that guide several times,


Are you a player trying to pull this off or the DM trying to slip a dragoon into the game? If the latter, I have a homebrew dragoon (two versions, PrC and Base), that I made for a campaign I'm running based around Final Fantasy. You are welcome to it if you'd like me to send them to you. If the former, i would still send them to you if you like. Depending on the DM he may allow it. Who knows.

Trying to bring this to a game :smallbiggrin: although I would like to see your homebrew.

[Fax Celestis]

*I remember reading somewhere that you could chain variants and ACF, for example getting feat rogue and then change the feats for dungeoncrasher. In this case trading the fast movement of the wildshape ranger for pounce. (if anyone can help me by either reffuting my claim or supporting please do so).

RAW, no. RAMS, sure.

Here's my equivalencies list (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AuqvG3gSGuF7cG03WmpKTEttSTVla0tDdGhaRmtCT 2c).

[Dusk Eclipse]

Oh thanks Fax, that list is very useful. BTW I think the dungeonchrasher rogue was yours right?

[Fax Celestis]

Yeah, Damocles is mine.

[true_shinken]

About Battle Jump, that feat requires some background shenanigans to be from the taer region. 'Created by chaotic evil human-eating giants' looks a bit hard to swallow, IMHO.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Going to ask the DM to waive (or alter) that requirements, we play with every book allowed so I think I can convince him.

For the record, I think that fluffing the battle jump as emulating the way some dragons hunt is a good one.

[Mongoose87]

Yeah, Damocles is mine.

Where could I look at that?

[mabriss lethe]

Warblade with a focus on tiger claw maneuvers would make a nice base (or any other class and take martial study 2X to pick up sudden leap.

[Dusk Eclipse]

hmm maybe I could ditch 1 level of wildshape ranger and the fighter one to make room for two warblade levels.... hmmm