Question: Touch attacks 3.5 core rules

[wick]

It has been awhile since I have played so I am studying the rules but this one is frustrating me. I thought that it was a no brainer but it is not clearly defined

What bonuses go into touch attacks?

Is it Melee: Base attack+STR+ any other bonus to hit? would you add your strength to damage?

Ranged: Base attack+DEX?+ other? Would you add strength?

I don't remember strength coming into the picture at all but I can't seem to find the rule in the PHB that defines modifiers to the attack and damage using touch attacks. Please back up the statements with a page reference. Thanks.

[kamikasei]

Touch attacks are no different to normal attacks. What's different about them is the AC they have to hit. You use your normal attack bonus but the target uses their touch AC rather than simple AC to defend. Damage is unaffected.

[Eldan]

Most touch attacks are either spells or combat special attacks (I can't think of any that aren't right now), so they don't deal regular melee damage either way. Strength is therefore no factor.

[Snake-Aes]

Most touch attacks are either spells or combat special attacks (I can't think of any that aren't right now), so they don't deal regular melee damage either way. Strength is therefore no factor.

Strength is factored on the to-hit, but a touch attack doesn't do damage. It's just you touching the target.

So, it's a normal attack against touch ac. It doesn't harm on its own.

[wick]

Strength is factored on the to-hit, but a touch attack doesn't do damage. It's just you touching the target.

So, it's a normal attack against touch ac. It doesn't harm on its own.

You would use strength for the Ranged touch attack to hit bonus too?

[Zombimode]

Again: a touch attack is a special quality of an attack that forces the defender to use his touch AC instead of his normal AC. Nothing more.

If the attack uses STR to hit, then it uses STR to hit; if it uses DEX to hit, then it uses DEX to hit; if it uses CHA to hit, then it uses CHA to hit. I think you got the idea.

Now, normaly a meele attack uses STR to hit, and a ranged attack uses DEX to hit. So, unless otherwise noted, a meele touch attack uses STR to hit, and a ranged touch attack uses DEX to hit.

[kamikasei]

Strength is factored on the to-hit, but a touch attack doesn't do damage. It's just you touching the target.

So, it's a normal attack against touch ac. It doesn't harm on its own.

It might do damage. Emerald Razor, for example.

A touch attack is just an attack which targets touch AC rather than normal AC. That's all.

A ranged touch attack will use Dexterity for the to-hit. I can't think offhand of a way to make a ranged touch attack that would factor Strength in to the damage, but in principle it's possible (say, if you can make a composite bow or a thrown weapon in to a touch attack). More usually it'll specify its damage separately, such as for a ray spell or eldritch blast.

A melee touch attack will use Strength for the to-hit unless you have weapon finesse and it's applicable. Most will deal their own damage or apply a status effect. Some act like normal melee attacks except in what they target - the Emerald Razor maneuver turns an attack into a touch attack but your power attack, Strength bonus, etc. all still add to damage, while flame blade (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flameBlade.htm) specifically says that Strength does not factor in to damage.

In other words, how damage works depends entirely on the individual effect. The only thing knowing it's a touch attack tells you is that it targets touch AC.

[Amphetryon]

You would use strength for the Ranged touch attack to hit bonus too?
Without other things modifying your attack routine - like Zen Archery, Bloodstorm Blade, or Hammer of Moradin - a Ranged touch attack goes off of DEX. A Melee touch attack goes off of STR unless Weapon Finesse or similar is used.

[Snake-Aes]

You're putting the cart ahead of the horses. Touch attack just drops damage and targets a different(usually smaller) AC. Stuff like touch spells and emerald razor are exceptions to the rule.

[kamikasei]

You're putting the cart ahead of the horses. Touch attack just drops damage and targets a different(usually smaller) AC. Stuff like touch spells and emerald razor are exceptions to the rule.

No, a touch attack targets a different AC and that's it. Usually, yes, touch attacks either deal no damage or deal damage completely separate from what an armed or unarmed attack would do, but that's not part and parcel of being a touch attack.

[Snake-Aes]

They do separate normal attacks from touch attacks about damage, though. Where is it?

[durnik15]

Snake you don't know what you're talking about so just listen to those that do instead. kamikasei knows what's up and he's told you it correctly twice now. Just like a regular attack does damage depending on what you're doing (damage for longsword or damage for monk fist), touch attack does damage or not depending on what you're doing (chill touch, enervation, trip attack, splash weapon, starting a grapple).

[Lord Vukodlak]

Snake you don't know what you're talking about so just listen to those that do instead. kamikasei knows what's up and he's told you it correctly twice now. Just like a regular attack does damage depending on what you're doing (damage for longsword or damage for monk fist), touch attack does damage or not depending on what you're doing (chill touch, enervation, trip attack, splash weapon, starting a grapple).

There saying basically the exact same thing, kami just words it better.

[Optimystik]

They do separate normal attacks from touch attacks about damage, though. Where is it?

Kami is right; the only difference between touch attacks and regular is the AC they have to hit.

If I use Deep Impact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#deepImpact) for instance, I will add my Strength modifier to attack and damage just as I would with a normal attack.

@durnik - there's no need to be so confrontational.