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Varis
2010-07-14, 06:18 AM
So, playing a bard that's not very scary at melee, I figured a cohort would be a great way to contribute to the parties tanking ability.

We currently have a bard, wizard/rogue, druid and ranger party composition and our level 7-8 party got pushed very hard against 6 wyverns.

So, I'm hoping that a level 7 cohort fighter will help (when I hit 9th)... sadly we have sadistic DM that is going to make the local overweight barmaid my cohort.

I slept with her on accident and now she follows me around, trying to hook up with me...

No doubt he will trick her out with feats like "obesity" and "large and in charge"


I won't give up though!

Help me salvage the cohort from level 7 onward.

stats to distribute are:
15, 7, 10, 14 , 14, 13 any which way

She will be a pure fighter.



So assuming her first 7 levels will be spent on ... "non optimal" feats, any suggestions where to go from there for a solid tank?

Prime32
2010-07-14, 06:22 AM
Take the Battle Jump feat and something which boosts Jump checks. Have her use the Obese flaw to take the Willing Deformity (obese) feat. Put her in heavy armour.

Kill everything through falling damage.

Serpentine
2010-07-14, 06:24 AM
...by accident?

gallagher
2010-07-14, 07:38 AM
...by accident?
shes a barmaid, it wont be too hard to get someone in a state to make poor decisions that they would later regret.

Varis
2010-07-14, 07:55 AM
...by accident?

err, well... we just fended off a goblin attack on farmers and decided to celebrate. There was alcohol, good times and a decent performance check.
So I kinda offhandedly tell the DM I will grab the hottest chick in the bar and retire with her for the night...

The DM then informed me that the ONLY chick in that bar was a fat barmaid... and that she appreciated the 18 charisma... over and over...

Telonius
2010-07-14, 08:25 AM
Well, the "obesity" part can be solved as soon as your Wizard is able to cast Polymorph Any Object. :smallbiggrin:

This character is just screaming for the "Drunken Master" PrC, but since it's a pure fighter that's out. Exemplar with skill artistry in "Profession: Barmaid" would fit the fluff - and you could also use that to explain how "the event" occurred - but it would significantly decrease your BAB. So, if you're looking for pure fighter-ing?

Str 15 (+1 at level 4)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 7

I'd suggest this for your feat priority, if the DM hasn't already given them to you:
8 Power Attack
8 +1 Str
9 Improved Bull Rush
10 Shock Trooper
12 Leap Attack
12 Combat Expertise
12 +1 Str
14 Improved Trip

nedz
2010-07-14, 08:33 AM
Well, if she were to be accidently killed in like a fight or something you could have your Druid friend re-incarnate her as something else. It probably wouldn't be worse.

Ormagoden
2010-07-14, 08:37 AM
...by accident?

I read that about 4 times too...

Morph Bark
2010-07-14, 08:53 AM
Hey, don't worry. Obese women make good moms. In the best/worst case scenario she's pregnant and will leave at some point. Just hope she doesn't drag you along for that ride, unless it is the end of the campaign. Otherwise, that would be the end of the campaign. For you.

No offense to anyone who is obese, pregnant, a woman, a good mom, or related to any of these. :smallwink:

Varis
2010-07-14, 09:10 AM
Well, the "obesity" part can be solved as soon as your Wizard is able to cast Polymorph Any Object. :smallbiggrin:

This character is just screaming for the "Drunken Master" PrC, but since it's a pure fighter that's out. Exemplar with skill artistry in "Profession: Barmaid" would fit the fluff - and you could also use that to explain how "the event" occurred - but it would significantly decrease your BAB. So, if you're looking for pure fighter-ing?

Str 15 (+1 at level 4)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 7

I'd suggest this for your feat priority, if the DM hasn't already given them to you:
8 Power Attack
8 +1 Str
9 Improved Bull Rush
10 Shock Trooper
12 Leap Attack
12 Combat Expertise
12 +1 Str
14 Improved Trip

Both Suggestions take the "flying whale" approach, which does add mobility and at least a decently effective cohort.

I'm looking to get her k... er.. to get her taking aggro off squishy party members. So she needs to absorb damage (combat focus feats for fast healing?) and take aggro via feats like Goad

Analytica
2010-07-14, 09:24 AM
Shouldn't this character have the Jotunbrud feat?

Also, consider Troll-blooded. Regeneration 1.

gbprime
2010-07-14, 09:53 AM
A little extra weight doesn't make someone bad at their job. or unattractive. And if she's a 7th level fighter, she's actually pretty capable, if not optimized. It's not hard to imagine a large nordic woman or even someone like this...

http://www.comicartlinks.com/images_kalman/MISC_03_c.jpg

Telonius
2010-07-14, 10:03 AM
A little extra weight doesn't make someone bad at their job. or unattractive. And if she's a 7th level fighter, she's actually pretty capable, if not optimized. It's not hard to imagine a large nordic woman or even someone like this...

http://www.comicartlinks.com/images_kalman/MISC_03_c.jpg

Given that stat block, I don't see how she couldn't be low-charisma. This is a fighter, and the 7's got to go somewhere. Physical stats have to be high, or she won't be able to do her job as a Fighter. Either she's low charisma, low intelligence, or low wisdom. If low Int, that means nothing based on Combat Expertise (like Improved Trip). If low Wis, she might as well paint a "Target my Will save" sign on her armor. Low charisma does the least damage.

Morph Bark
2010-07-14, 10:04 AM
Low charisma has little to do with actual appearance though. It's simply force of personality, and she sure seems to have a forceful personality. :smallwink:

PinkysBrain
2010-07-14, 10:10 AM
sadly we have sadistic DM that is going to make the local overweight barmaid my cohort.
Have your revenge and tell him she needs a good backstory to explain why a 7th level adventurer ended up as a waitress :)

No doubt he will trick her out with feats like "obesity" and "large and in charge"
A couple probably, but she survived to 7th level ... and you can only do that in D&D by overcoming challenges, she can't have been completely useless.

That said, she will probably have weapon specialization ... which is almost as bad.

So assuming her first 7 levels will be spent on ... "non optimal" feats, any suggestions where to go from there for a solid tank?
There are no tanks in D&D.

Any way, if this is core only ... spiked chain tripper, as always :)

Aotrs Commander
2010-07-14, 10:13 AM
Low charisma has little to do with actual appearance though. It's simply force of personality, and she sure seems to have a forceful personality. :smallwink:

Perhaps then, you could envision her as merely being crude and gruff (hense low charisma), if the DM isn't going to make you have a passable charisma stat. She could be very forceful - perhaps too forceful - but with chronic foot-in-mouth syndrome. And, as you say, weight aside, her appearance is an unrelated factor, though it is often treated as a correlating one.

Threeshades
2010-07-14, 10:13 AM
Yeah so what if she's low charisma, ive seen lots of player and non-player characters who had a charisma that would put a half-orc dwarf to shame but still were described to be very attractive. The problem about them was that they were vengeful, reclusive, anxious and unsociable. It had nothing to do with their looks however.

gbprime
2010-07-14, 10:15 AM
If low Wis, she might as well paint a "Target my Will save" sign on her armor.
Isn't that what the OP wants? :smallamused: Besides, an NPC can have a glaring weakness like a -2 to will saves.

I otherwise agree with the stat block. People are commenting on the "obesity problem", but does someone with 15 str, 14 dex, and 14 con actually have a "problem" ? I think not.

You could work her feat selection into style or tactical feats like Combat Brute or three mountains, both of which use heavy weapons which fits with the concept of a massive build, and they don't use a shield, which fits the idea of a lower AC on a person you're not thrilled to have around. :smalleek:

Scarey Nerd
2010-07-14, 10:17 AM
Low charisma has little to do with actual appearance though. It's simply force of personality, and she sure seems to have a forceful personality. :smallwink:

As we all know, appearance is handled by Appearance from BoEF...:smalltongue:

Aotrs Commander
2010-07-14, 10:18 AM
I otherwise agree with the stat block. People are commenting on the "obesity problem", but does someone with 15 str, 14 dex, and 14 con actually have a "problem" ? I think not.

I think some factors also impinge on the what DM constitues as "fat" as Hollywood, for one, has a rather different definition to the rest of us...



Also, a point that's just occurred to me; if she's going on adventures, doesn't that mean she'll be losing weight fairly sharpish if she's actually really obese anyway? 'Cos there's no way that stomping round in full plate and swinging a sword isn't good exercise!

Morph Bark
2010-07-14, 10:18 AM
Perhaps then, you could envision her as merely being crude and gruff (hense low charisma), if the DM isn't going to make you have a passable charisma stat. She could be very forceful - perhaps too forceful - but with chronic foot-in-mouth syndrome. And, as you say, weight aside, her appearance is an unrelated factor, though it is often treated as a correlating one.

Exactly what I was hinting at, indeed.

Yora
2010-07-14, 10:26 AM
Or she could be overweight and good looking.

I have to check out that Dungeons and Dammes thread again, I think there was something like that... :smallbiggrin:

Aotrs Commander
2010-07-14, 10:43 AM
Or she could be overweight and good looking.

I have to check out that Dungeons and Dammes thread again, I think there was something like that... :smallbiggrin:

That's kinda what we were implying, and rationalising what will mechanically have to be a poor Charisma stat with what is proeportedly known of her personality.

And, like I say, she's going to be an adventurer, so she should't STAY fat.

So, you might theoretically end up with a solidly muscled, attractive, (loyal?) fighter-cohort, who just happens to have no sense of social nicities...

...

Oh, Varis: if your DM says she's "magically fat" or some other such nonsense when you bring the exercise thing up, I officially give you permission to hit them upside the head with the Player's Handbook.

super dark33
2010-07-14, 10:50 AM
you should reroll the stats.

make them like this:

18 16 14 14 12 10

Varis
2010-07-14, 10:59 AM
Isn't that what the OP wants? :smallamused: Besides, an NPC can have a glaring weakness like a -2 to will saves.

I otherwise agree with the stat block. People are commenting on the "obesity problem", but does someone with 15 str, 14 dex, and 14 con actually have a "problem" ? I think not.

You could work her feat selection into style or tactical feats like Combat Brute or three mountains, both of which use heavy weapons which fits with the concept of a massive build, and they don't use a shield, which fits the idea of a lower AC on a person you're not thrilled to have around. :smalleek:

hmm I may like the 7 wis idea, and perhaps just take steadfast determination.
Although that's 2 feats... =/

With the spell improvisation I could probably get my UMD high enough to use Polymorph any Object. While that points to a very shallow personality on my part, I can point out the health benefits it brings to convince her =)

Telonius
2010-07-14, 11:09 AM
who just happens to have no sense of social nicities...

The fact that she's apparently following him around basically begging him for more Treasure Type O seems to argue for that. Though that could also be indicative of a low Sense Motive check (which Wisdom would modify).

Tshern
2010-07-14, 11:49 AM
...by accident?
That could happen to anyone. Say, the hero might be trying to teleport somewhere, but a Divert teleportation effect transports him directly above the skylight of the sleeping, naked barmaid. Or he could do some some just as likely; the world is a strange place after all.

Okay, maybe it sounded a little unlikely...

Yora
2010-07-14, 11:56 AM
Found a picture, how about that? (SFW)
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/186/1/8/DFin_Dorfaboos_boo_by_WickedStar.jpg
I'd have nothing against her tagging along. :smallbiggrin:

jiriku
2010-07-14, 12:14 PM
A low Wisdom seems appropriate. Anyone who'd give up a stable, safe job to go risking her life with a bunch violent hobos after a one-night stand with a guy who was drunk at the time and now seems to want to avoid her does NOT have good judgment.

+1 for Endurance/Steadfast Determination. Can you make her class choices too, or are you stuck with straight fighter? Because if you can make her class choices, Crusader is an obvious (and highly useful) direction to go in after level 8, and would reward a solid Charisma score even more.

Telonius
2010-07-14, 12:30 PM
If you're going to have something that requires Endurance anyway, maybe take a three-level dip in Ranger. You'd basically be trading two fighter feats and 3 hitpoints for Endurance, Track, (TWF or Rapid Shot), a favored enemy, Wild Empathy, better reflex save, better skill points, and a spell list (useful with regard to Wands).

Darkxarth
2010-07-14, 12:33 PM
you should reroll the stats.

make them like this:

18 16 14 14 12 10

I am not sure how this suggestion is helpful to the OP. Standard games do not allow players to pick and choose ability scores, and rerolling would be entirely random, as is the point. So I don't know how he should reroll the stats (which he probably won't be allowed to do anyway) and even if he does, how he should get them to match a specific set of 6 numbers.

I wish I had something useful to add, but this was just confusing me.

TheThan
2010-07-14, 12:33 PM
I actually played a barmaid character once, sure she was an orc and could out arm wrestle everyone else at the tavern but, whatever. Unfortunately that game fell apart real fast.

Anyway when I saw this thread I immediately though of her (http://andersson.elfwood.com/Orc-Wench.2524387.html) (warning, a lot there isnít safe for work. but the initial picture should be fine). Which is the inspiration for the above character.

Beorn080
2010-07-14, 12:33 PM
This puts me in mind of The Scotsman's Wife from Samurai Jack.

Flavor wise, working at a bar, she would be proficient at stopping fights quickly, especially as a 7th level fighter. Tripping and grappling would be the most likely, and she should probably come with a Merciful weapon. I'd say if your DM gives her all joke feats, you should tell him there is no way she could have made it to 7th level fighter. If he tries to BS you, well, can't really say what to do. Maybe change the feats when you get a chance?

Varis
2010-07-14, 12:34 PM
looks like I can dip her (weeee )

Djinn_in_Tonic
2010-07-14, 12:37 PM
If you're spending the feat on Leadership, you should have some sway over the character you get.

I'd recommend taking those 7 fighter levels straight to the Crusader bank. A Stone Dragon Crusader would be a force to be reckoned with behind a bar (the other schools seem less applicable to a simple bar maid), and it would be a very strong addition to the party. :smallbiggrin:

Morph Bark
2010-07-14, 12:42 PM
Found a picture, how about that? (SFW)
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/186/1/8/DFin_Dorfaboos_boo_by_WickedStar.jpg
I'd have nothing against her tagging along. :smallbiggrin:

I agree and I don't even like ale! Or bars. Especially the iron ones. Especially to the head. Ow.

Also, if she's gonna actually do some fighting, make her a Dungeoncrasher: fluffwise it works too amazingly! And if you got some control over the character's build (make her shapely! oh, not that kinda build... but she likely is already anyway) make that 7th level something else. As said, something that grants martial maneuvers would be nice. Or dip a level of... ah, wait, no, nevermind. I was going to suggest Beguiler or Warmage or some other Cha-caster that can wear armour (or getting into Suel Arcanamach perhaps), but her Cha is bad, so no getting into Abjurant Champion...

Yora
2010-07-14, 12:42 PM
Anyway when I saw this thread I immediately though of her (http://andersson.elfwood.com/Orc-Wench.2524387.html) (warning, a lot there isnít safe for work. but the initial picture should be fine). Which is the inspiration for the above character.
Ha! The first post immediately made me think about something by Anderson as well. :smallbiggrin:

Varis
2010-07-14, 12:43 PM
If you're spending the feat on Leadership, you should have some sway over the character you get.

I'd recommend taking those 7 fighter levels straight to the Crusader bank. A Stone Dragon Crusader would be a force to be reckoned with behind a bar (the other schools seem less applicable to a simple bar maid), and it would be a very strong addition to the party. :smallbiggrin:

no cigar =(

I wanted a melee type so I got the maid. I'm lucky I at least get to do what I want from 7th level on out.

Telonius
2010-07-14, 12:51 PM
looks like I can dip her (weeee )

I think you already established that in the first post.

(I am a bad, bad man). :smallbiggrin:

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-14, 01:04 PM
no cigar =(

I wanted a melee type so I got the maid. I'm lucky I at least get to do what I want from 7th level on out.Sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar...

Also, dungeoncrasher 6/crusader or warblade 1.

You knock her up, she knocks them out.

There has to be some benefit of her tailing you for some tail.

Runestar
2010-07-14, 06:39 PM
Drunken master seems a tad out, she is supposed to be good at stopping drunks, not getting drunk.

I like the idea of dungeoncrasher, but how well does that work in a crowded setting such as the dining area of an inn? It seems hard to charge in, and does ramming them against chairs and table count?

Maybe a half-ogre swordsage with emphasis on setting sun?

Fouredged Sword
2010-07-14, 07:36 PM
As a one feat boost that will make her a force to not be ignored even without huge damage, pick up the resounding blow feat from BoED. It is a fighter feat that lets you force a willsave VS cower for one round every time you crit. The prereqs are powerattack and 7 ranks of intimidate. It fits her theme and if your DM dosn't give your fighter minion powerattack you need to talk him into letting you retrain her.

you give her a falchion or two kuni if she can TWF. Make them keen and she will crit 30% of the time with each swing. The save VS cower goes up with cha and level. It would give her use out of that Cha score if you don't dump it. If she is locking an enemy down like that they will be less likely to ignore her.

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-14, 07:41 PM
Could you turn her into a bard/crusader/warblade build?

Maybe she was the bar's primary form of entertainment, whistling while she worked.

herrhauptmann
2010-07-14, 08:44 PM
Hey, don't worry. Obese women make good moms. In the best/worst case scenario she's pregnant and will leave at some point. Just hope she doesn't drag you along for that ride, unless it is the end of the campaign. Otherwise, that would be the end of the campaign. For you.

No offense to anyone who is obese, pregnant, a woman, a good mom, or related to any of these. :smallwink:
http://www.wearyourbeer.com/images/Humor_Wedding_Game_Over_Black_Shirt.jpg

She could be a drunken master, most of the bartenders/maids I've met were huge drinkers. And why does being fighter 7 (or whatever) preclude her being an Exotic weapon master? If she's got weapon spec, she just needs to use an exotic weapon and have a few skill points to hit EWM

Beorn, YES! The wife of the mad scotsman!

Darrin
2010-07-14, 08:52 PM
I like the idea of dungeoncrasher, but how well does that work in a crowded setting such as the dining area of an inn? It seems hard to charge in, and does ramming them against chairs and table count?


Dungeon Crasher text specifies "wall or other solid object", but doesn't specify any particular size or weight for the object. So yes, tables and chairs count. A Dungeon Crasher barmaid would be awesomesauce. Add Shock Trooper ASAP for Directed Bull Rush, Improved Trip, and Knock-Down. For feats, I'd probably do something like:

1) Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush (FB), Combat Expertise (HB)
2) Dungeon Crasher 4d6
3) Improved Trip
4) Knock-Down
5) --
6) Dungeon Crasher 8d6
7) --
8) Shock Trooper
9) Shield Mate (MiniHB)

Varis
2010-07-15, 04:49 AM
excellent suggestions, I'll flesh them out see how she does

SethFahad
2010-07-15, 05:09 AM
Ehm... I'm sorry, but.... you've slept with an overweight-tubby barmaid... by accident??? I mean you've mistaken a lump for what....a peach??? By accident? :smallyuk:
You got drunk? You got blinded? Were you unconscious? Numb?
On the other hand, maybe she is a shapechanger... oh well... i do hope she not "carrying" something that belongs to you now... :smallbiggrin:

TheAzrael
2010-07-15, 05:47 AM
I can think of an interesting way the "accident" happened :D .

The bard was out on "job" (stealing stuff or something else illigal). While thats going on the guards figure out something is amiss and follow his trail. Needing a plave to hide he jumbs in the first window to see open ( or door unloacked) where the Barmaid is resting (but not asleep) in her nightrobe. he has to think on his feet the Guards are outside searching so he tells her he was enchanted by her beauty and that he had to see her trying to buy time. unfortunatly she is a little more aggresive sexualy than he andisipated and well its her or prison... It looks like he choose the wrong choice! :smalltongue:

on the subject at hand consider a dip in barbarian with the lion tottem variable that gives pounce (at least i thing thats the tottem) gain rage plus full attack on a charge :smalltongue: and she can pounce you and graple you into bed!!! seriously though i would take the bad joke from the story teller and make it a great story for my char. Just tell him not to continue being a J--k with her and you so you can built on that :smallamused:

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-15, 09:04 AM
Ehm... I'm sorry, but.... you've slept with an overweight-tubby barmaid... by accident??? I mean you've mistaken a lump for what....a peach??? By accident? :smallyuk:
You got drunk? You got blinded? Were you unconscious? Numb?
On the other hand, maybe she is a shapechanger... oh well... i do hope she not "carrying" something that belongs to you now... :smallbiggrin:There's a difference between 'voluptuous' and 'grotesquely obese,' you know.

Morph Bark
2010-07-15, 09:13 AM
There's a difference between 'voluptuous' and 'grotesquely obese,' you know.

A fact which is sadly often overlooked, made worse by the voluptuous women : grotesquely obese women ratio (hint, it tilts to the left in most locales, if there even are any of either).

By the way, since she's going to be of a lower level, it might be a better idea to just give her a decent Cha and give her a level in a passively boosting class later, like Marshal or Dragon Shaman or Bard, else she will fall in battle real quickly if the DM gives you CR appropriate encounters. (Plus, you and the party would be more inclined to keep her alive for the bonuses she gives you. :smallwink: )

Lycanthromancer
2010-07-15, 10:23 AM
By the way, since she's going to be of a lower level, it might be a better idea to just give her a decent Cha and give her a level in a passively boosting class later, like Marshal or Dragon Shaman or Bard, else she will fall in battle real quickly if the DM gives you CR appropriate encounters. (Plus, you and the party would be more inclined to keep her alive for the bonuses she gives you. :smallwink: )This was a reason for my suggestion of going bard/crusader/warblade. Bard will help her remain relevant throughout the game, and a few levels in crusader and warblade intermixed in the build will help with survivability and furthering her utility even more.

Varis
2010-07-15, 10:55 AM
A fact which is sadly often overlooked, made worse by the voluptuous women : grotesquely obese women ratio (hint, it tilts to the left in most locales, if there even are any of either).

By the way, since she's going to be of a lower level, it might be a better idea to just give her a decent Cha and give her a level in a passively boosting class later, like Marshal or Dragon Shaman or Bard, else she will fall in battle real quickly if the DM gives you CR appropriate encounters. (Plus, you and the party would be more inclined to keep her alive for the bonuses she gives you. :smallwink: )

We are a international group, so we use gametable and all rolls are shown (so no pulling punches or mercy)
For now we have level appropriate encounters but the DM is very good at using the environment and group tactics.
our last fight with 6 wyverns (only cr6 creatures and one of his "random encounters") brought the party (level 7-8) to the limit. (we are very experienced players too)

we have great control and damage... but not at the same time for now =) We have a ranger that does good at melee but he is alone and often a obvious target (go go swift, invis) so a second solid melee, backed up by our druids summons, would cover the party melee really well.
Between my bard, the wizard, the druid and my UMD we got pretty much anything magical covered.


starting level 9 the gloves will be off so we need to be ready for it =)

Trace284
2010-07-16, 03:12 PM
Also, consider Troll-blooded. Regeneration 1.

Could somebody do me a favor, where does this feat come from?

Archpaladin Zousha
2010-07-16, 03:20 PM
Found a picture, how about that? (SFW)
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs49/f/2009/186/1/8/DFin_Dorfaboos_boo_by_WickedStar.jpg
I'd have nothing against her tagging along. :smallbiggrin:
Where'd you find that? She's pretty!

Tyndmyr
2010-07-16, 03:28 PM
Dungeoncrasher. Claim that due to sheer weight and persistance, no door can keep her out. Your DM should love it.

Buy yourself a pair of goggles, and complain that they do nothing.

TheThan
2010-07-16, 04:02 PM
let us know when you get the character sheet so we can help out better. (its a little hard to help out without knowing what feats and levels the character already has.

dps
2010-07-16, 04:07 PM
hmm I may like the 7 wis idea

I like it for the roleplaying reasons. She's a barmaid, which means working with the public, which calls for at least a decent charisma.