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Morph Bark
2010-07-15, 02:07 PM
So as I am writing up some mooks, elite mooks and the like for an E6 pirate campaign starting tomorrow, I suddenly realized... I'm making mainly Rogues and Swashbucklers, with more powerful ones having a level in the Dread Pirate PrC. Is that all I can do? One with a level of Bard is also pretty obvious... but what other classes could work for a member of a pirate crew? Are there even any magic classes that would work perfectly with it (preferably simple ones, which bars prepared casters)?

Zovc
2010-07-15, 02:08 PM
The muscle could always dip into Fighter for one or two levels. :smallamused:

Why not have some sort of priest or a "real" caster?

A Drunken Master could be fun, especially if he's higher-ranking.

Prodan
2010-07-15, 02:12 PM
Scarlet Corsair.

Natael
2010-07-15, 02:40 PM
A light bladed warblade would be appropriate too. Don't restrict yourself to just what a class is called. A TWF ranger with a walrus companion can be just as piratey as a "swashbuckler"

Zovc
2010-07-15, 02:43 PM
...with a walrus companion can be just as piratey...

Screw what I said about priests... you need a druid with a walrus companion.

Natael
2010-07-15, 02:49 PM
I was going to suggest a Darphelon Were-orca, but with e6, you may have to settle for a were-popoise.

Morph Bark
2010-07-15, 02:51 PM
I was going to suggest a Darphelon Were-orca, but with e6, you may have to settle for a were-popoise.

Well, Darfellan are a racial option...


Scarlet Corsair.

Stormwrack, I presume?

Natael
2010-07-15, 02:56 PM
Scarlet Corsair is indeed in Stormwrack.

Connington
2010-07-15, 03:07 PM
Sorcerors, Warlocks and Evokers can act as living cannons. Only more awesome, because their using cool looking spells instead of big balls of metal.

Barbarians are obvious. You just know that Blackbeard, who was shot 5 times and suffered 20 serious cuts before dying, had to have had some Barbarian levels. Perhaps add in some Frenzied Berserker.

Gishes in general work well, and I think hexblades seem very appropriate due to their evil inclinations. Just replace your mental image of a pirate with a pistol in one and a sword in the other with a pirate with a sword in one hand and a fireball in the other.

arrowhen
2010-07-15, 03:39 PM
Arr-cane Arr-cher?

Coplantor
2010-07-15, 03:50 PM
A barbarian for a blood thirsty pirate, a drunken master for Jack Sparrow, a hexblade for a true dread pirate.

Morph Bark
2010-07-15, 04:01 PM
Thanks for the suggestions and directions so far.

Evokers are out due to the "no prepared caster" thing I got going (Healer is excluded and gained Turn Undead and one Domain), Warlocks could work. Sorcerers and Warmages could do too, but without Fire, Acid or Sonic spells since you don't want to accidentally heavily damage your own crew's ship. I might have them use some Electricity spells that could be used against them if the players play it right (like soaking them in seawater).

Hexblade also seems highly fitting and made me think of an old idea, a party led by a White Raven Warblade/Bard leading a Duskblade, Hexblade, Warmage and Warlock.

dgnslyr
2010-07-15, 04:36 PM
Warblades, maybe? Warblade works pretty well for a more non-magical melee class for pretty much anything. Just no Diamond Mind. How would a rarely sober pirate be able to concentrate hard enough for it? Maybe give them Tiger Claw as compensation. For a caster, a spontaneous caster with an emphasis on Evocation to be more of a blaster seems solid.

Draz74
2010-07-15, 05:59 PM
Pretty much anything that doesn't rely on heavy armor can work for a pirate.

A pirate campaign is one of the few times I would consider playing a Druid (they're not my favorite). It is certainly also one of the many times I would consider playing a Factotum. Swordsage can be excellent. Psion too.

Safety Sword
2010-07-15, 06:17 PM
Arr-cane Arr-cher?

Wow... I giggled and people at work are looking at me strangely..

Zeful
2010-07-15, 07:03 PM
So as I am writing up some mooks, elite mooks and the like for an E6 pirate campaign starting tomorrow, I suddenly realized... I'm making mainly Rogues and Swashbucklers, with more powerful ones having a level in the Dread Pirate PrC. Is that all I can do? One with a level of Bard is also pretty obvious... but what other classes could work for a member of a pirate crew? Are there even any magic classes that would work perfectly with it (preferably simple ones, which bars prepared casters)?

Every class works for a pirate, because it's a profession, just like an Assassain is anyone who kills people he doesn't know for people he doesn't know (often for money).

Morph Bark
2010-07-15, 07:08 PM
Every class works for a pirate, because it's a profession, just like an Assassain is anyone who kills people he doesn't know for people he doesn't know (often for money).

Perhaps, but some just fit better thematically, just like a thief occupation fits a rogue more than it does a monk.

That, and there might be classes that deny you going onto a ship or into or onto water for whatever reason.

Calmar
2010-07-15, 07:09 PM
A good old-fashioned ranger with Two-Weapon fighting, player races as favored enemies and a parrot companion (uses hawk stats and speaks one language... more or less). :smallsmile:

Jergmo
2010-07-15, 07:54 PM
Naval battles aren't complete without Weather Witches/Wizards, don't you know?

Focused Specialist Evoker 5/Air Elemental Savant 1

Alternatively, if you don't want a weather-mage to give up the variety of other schools, you could have it be a Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) with the Storm domain.

Wind Wall, lightning everywhere...

Also, this (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Storm_Bolt)feat.

Oh, and clerics with the Weather (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#weatherDomain) domain. You could have a Cleric 5/Stormlord 1 - it requires that you worship Talos, but hey, that can easily be handwaved.

Jergmo
2010-07-15, 11:37 PM
A barbarian for a blood thirsty pirate, a drunken master for Jack Sparrow, a hexblade for a true dread pirate.

That'd force him to be a monk, though, wouldn't it? Naw.

Jack is a Factotum!

SethFahad
2010-07-16, 12:11 AM
I don't know if someone already prosposed that, but how about Legendary Captain?

lsfreak
2010-07-16, 02:19 AM
Warblades, maybe? Warblade works pretty well for a more non-magical melee class for pretty much anything. Just no Diamond Mind. How would a rarely sober pirate be able to concentrate hard enough for it? Maybe give them Tiger Claw as compensation.

Actually, Diamond Mind makes for the perfect:
*miss the pirate*
*miss the pirate*
*miss the pirate*
Pirate: Were you perhaps trying to do THIS? *stab for tons of damage*

Diamond Mind works perfectly for a savvy, charismatic fighter that uses expert swordsmanship to make hits count. Tiger Claw makes for an agile one, jumping and leaping around the enemy (which, BTW, warblades get by default). White Raven for a captain. Devoted Spirit's healing stuff works for a captain as well, via feats or something. Setting Sun (via feats or a swordsage, which would also be an excellent choice) is a drunken brawler. Shadow Hand (swordsage, again)for a slightly magical pirate, potentially with a bit of a cruel streak. If you go into homebrew, look up the Falling Leaf discipline here on the forums, which combined very well with Tiger Claw for agility, or Diamond Mind for the 'ha-ha-you-missed-me' type.

Draz74
2010-07-16, 02:20 AM
Jack is a Factotum!

Factotum/Fortune's Friend. :smallsmile:

Fizban
2010-07-16, 03:51 AM
Uh, for thuggish pirates you could use the Sneak Attack+Thug Fighter I guess. Pirates are supposed to be tough and I don't see why they'd all be able to find traps, disappear into rogue-space, and have practically every skill. SATFs have a d10 HD for tough, 4+int skill points so they can sail and swim, sneak attack so they can gang up easy, and they don't waste any effort learning armor that weighs more than light.

Serpentine
2010-07-16, 04:27 AM
Well, think about the requirements for your typical pirate ship (from what I know of history, and also various fantasy sources):
Captain, obviously. Canny, in charge, capable, other "c"-words, able to rein in their unruly mob.
First and second mate. I believe the role of one or both of these include punishment and keeping order, and seeing to the day-to-day running of a ship.
Navigator. In charge of figuring out where the ship is, and where it's going.
Weather-witch or similar. Predicting the weather and making sure the winds are right.
Head magic-blasting type. Handy to have if you know you're getting into lots of fights.
Cook. Makes food, often out of very little and nasty supplies.
Sailors and mooks. Need to be able to both run the ship and attack others.
Deckhand/s. I think I'm just thinking of low-level mooks who don't have the experience to do much more than run the ship.
Lookout/s. Could just be sailors, but could also be a couple of exceptionally perceptive individuals.
Cabin boy. A kid they keep on to do the things others don't.

I think there's lots of options for the captain. Dread Pirate would be the most obvious, but I believe it's considered pretty crappy. I think he should be charismatic and capable.
The mates, I dunno. They should be pretty tough, and might be worth keeping in mind their competence with a whip.
Navigator's probably best as a Ranger (I believe there's an ocean-specific variant in Stormwrack?), and/or diviner of some sort. A Bard would probably work too.
The weather-witch could be a Sorcerer, or a Bard (I like the idea of someone singing down the winds...), or a Druid (my vote), or perhaps a Witch (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19526430/The_WITCH_Core_Class) with a Weather Magic Dabble, or a Shaman.
The blasty-type could just be the weather-witch (especially if it's a Druid), but otherwise your typical Sorcerer or Wizard or even Cleric would work.
The cook, I'm not sure but I reckon he'd wanna have some skill with poisons and healing, and plenty of Survival.
Sailors, deckhands and lookouts I think you've already worked out.
Cabin boy I think works well as a straight Rogue.

Jergmo
2010-07-16, 10:10 AM
Factotum/Fortune's Friend. :smallsmile:

Hehe, I was going to say that originally, though sometimes Jack isn't so lucky. Remember the prison cells in Port Royal? :smalltongue:

Coplantor
2010-07-16, 10:16 AM
That'd force him to be a monk, though, wouldn't it? Naw.

Jack is a Factotum!

There must be a way of getting there without Monk.

Telonius
2010-07-16, 10:24 AM
For the captain, or even for a powerful First Mate, I have an old pirate build that might be nice:

Halfling

Starting Stats:


Str (12-2) 10
Dex (12+2) 14
Con 10
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 12


Rogue1 Quick Draw (1st level feat), Sneak 1d6
Jump 4, Balance 4, Bluff 4, Intimidate 4, Profession (Sailor) 4, Tumble 4, Sleight of Hand 4, Appraise 4, Use Rope 4, Swim 4
Rogue1/Swashbuckler(CWar) 1 Weapon Finesse, Extreme Leap skill trick (from skills)
Balance 5, Bluff 5, Jump 5, Tumble 5, Profession (Sailor) 5, Intimidate 5, Extreme Leap Skill trick (CSco)
Rog2/Sws1 Evasion (Rogue), Tumbling Crawl Skill Trick (from skills), Freerunner (CSco) (3rd Level Feat) = Nimble Charge skill trick
Tumbling Crawl skill trick, Appraise 6, Profession 6, Intimidate 6
Rog2/Sws2 Grace +1, +1 Dex
Profession 7
Rog3/Sws2 Sneak 2d6, Hidden Blade skill trick
Profession 8, Bluff 8, Intimidate 8, Appraise 8, Hidden Blade skill trick
Rog3/Sws3 Insightful Strike (Sws), Daring Outlaw (6th level feat) = +3d6 sneak, +1 Dodge to AC
Rog4/Sws3 Uncanny Dodge, Sneak +4d6
Rog4/Sws3/Dread Pirate(CAdv)1 Two-Weapon Fighting, +1 Dex
Rog4/Sws3/DrP1/Scarlet Corsair(Stormwrack)1 Improved Feint (Corsair), Improved TWF (9th level feat)
Rog4/Sws3/DrP1/ScC2 Sneak +5d6
Rog4/Sws3/DrP1/ScC3 Corsair's Feint

Key Equipment: +1 Keen rapier, +1 Keen kukri, +2 Mithral chain, Gloves of Dex +4, Three-Cornered Hat, Spyglass, Parrot

At 11th level, that will amount to:

Str 10
Dex 16 (+4 gloves) = 20
Con 10
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 12

+10 BAB
Fort +6, Ref +14, Will +6
Single Attack: 10 +5(dex) +1 (small) +1 (magic) = +17
Full attack: 15/15/10/10, d4+4 on the rapier, d3+4 on the Kukri, both at 15-20x2.
Sneak +5d6
AC = 10 + 5 (dex) +2 (magic) +4 (Mithral Chain) + 1 (Dodge) +1 (Size) = 23

Hidden Blade, Quick Draw, and Corsair's Feint will help the character get as many sneak attacks as possible. Nimble Charge and Extreme Leap will help the character navigate a pitching ship, or a barroom brawl. Relatively high (for a Rogue-ish combatant) attack bonuses help him connect. Insightful Strike puts the intelligence to use.

After that, Swashbuckler could round it out, or take some other appropriately pirate-y prestige classes, or finish Dread Pirate or Scarlet Corsair.

FMArthur
2010-07-16, 10:25 AM
Jack could easily just be in a low-powered campaign, or running a well-constructed build, etc. There's no reason to rule out a class for a movie character just because it's ineffective for us. For the things Jack does, monk abilities probably work pretty well. That said... Jack is chaotic and it is very unlikely that he was nonchaotic for the period of time necessary for taking monk levels and then grabbing a feat that lets him be chaotic.

Coplantor
2010-07-16, 10:27 AM
Well, there's the variant Monk that goes with the chaotic alignment

Another_Poet
2010-07-16, 10:31 AM
Just make whatever builds will make a fun challenge and then re-flavour them as pirates.

A Ftr5 with the stats of a two-handed greatsword can be described as a thin bloke with a cutlass, or a deck hand using his mop as a staff with uncanny skill.

Jergmo
2010-07-16, 10:39 AM
I just read it now and Legendary Captain requires Leadership - it can't be taken in E6.

Darkxarth
2010-07-16, 12:13 PM
...

I think there's lots of options for the captain. Dread Pirate would be the most obvious, but I believe it's considered pretty crappy. I think he should be charismatic and capable.
The mates, I dunno. They should be pretty tough, and might be worth keeping in mind their competence with a whip.
Navigator's probably best as a Ranger (I believe there's an ocean-specific variant in Stormwrack?), and/or diviner of some sort. A Bard would probably work too.
The weather-witch could be a Sorcerer, or a Bard (I like the idea of someone singing down the winds...), or a Druid (my vote), or perhaps a Witch (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19526430/The_WITCH_Core_Class) with a Weather Magic Dabble, or a Shaman.
The blasty-type could just be the weather-witch (especially if it's a Druid), but otherwise your typical Sorcerer or Wizard or even Cleric would work.
The cook, I'm not sure but I reckon he'd wanna have some skill with poisons and healing, and plenty of Survival.
Sailors, deckhands and lookouts I think you've already worked out.
Cabin boy I think works well as a straight Rogue.




Captain: I agree that you need someone with a high Charisma, so why not use the Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) class. For E6, drop the Major Aura +2 to level 6 (or make it available as a Capstone feat) and you've got a great captain.
First/Second Mate: I definitely second durability as a prerequisite for the First Mate. A refluffed Ape Totem Barbarian gives him a climb bonus/climb speed, a bonus to Intimidate, and Power Attack, in addition to Barbarian Rage and d12 hit dice, while getting rid of things that are less useful on the confined space of a ship (fast movement, trap sense, uncanny dodge). Second Mates have never seemed overly important to me, as far as plot and action are concerned, but a similar build would probably fit there, too.
Navigator: Seconding Ranger, though I don't have my books with me right now, so I don't know about the Stormwrack variant. I was going to suggest the Favored Environment Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#favoredEnemyVariantFavore dEnvironment) with Aquatic as the favored environment, but it really stinks.
Weather-Witch: I believe Stormwrack also contains a lightning-calling, wind-singing Bard variant (or feat) that I would suggest for the Weather-Witch, but see below as well.
Magical Blaster: I think this is a good addition, and I would probably go with a Warlock (fluff fits working with pirates) or perhaps a Kineticist Psion (they also have the Control Air (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlAir.htm) power at 2nd level, so that might replace the Weather Witch).
Cook: I would probably stick with Rogue here, although if you could get something that increased improvised weapon damage, a pan and cleaver wielding pirate is an impressive image.
Sailors/Mooks: I would stick with low-level Rogues or Fighters here, maybe even Experts or Warriors.
Deckhands: Definitely go with Commoners if all you need are combat-incapable sailors (Profession, Use Rope, Swim, and Climb are all on the Commoner's skill list).
Lookout(s): I would stick with the basics here, same as Deckhands probably, but with Alertness, Skill Focus: Spot, etc.
Cabin boy: I suggest making this character a Sorcerer or Bard. Some out-of-left-field character that turns out to be much more of a hassle (or a much greater help) than one would believe.


Anyway, good luck and let us know how it goes.