PDA

View Full Version : D&D 3.5: Saves, BAB, and multi-classing



Knave
2010-07-16, 03:26 AM
Hey guys

What do you think of saves in general?

I find the two tier'd progression weird (1/2 and 1/3) compared to, say, BAB (full, 3/4, 1/2) and there's also the first level "puffer" that makes multi-classing all weird. You either get +2 or ruin a save even further, like fighter taking fighter PRC? Kiss your will and reflex saves good bye. Taking Monk? WHY HELLO THERE +2 TO ALL SAVES.

Same happens with BAB, you took 2 rogue classes, or dare I say, multi-class into wizard PRC (mystic trickster, oh how I love theee...)? there goes any hope of you hitting **** ever.

So for saves, I suggest that the first level puffer is removed, and instead saves progress 3/4th and 1/2 level... and full progression for some monster classes maybe. This brings both the bad and good saves up quite a bit at level 20 (15 and 10 as opposed to 12 and 6), which is maybe a stealth buff for fightery-types?

so that'd go

Level Good Bad
1 (0,75)1 (0,5)1
2 (1,5)2 (1)1
3 (2,25)2 (1,5)2
4 (3)3 (2)2
5 (3,75)4 (2,5)3
6 (4,5)5 (3)3
7 (5,25)5 (3,5)4
8 (6)6 (4)4
9 (6,75)7 (4,5)5
10 (7,5)8 (5)5

... aaaaaand I'm too lazy to finish and haven't got excel. Anyway, you are supposed to add those up when you multiclass and round it up (or if you prefer to go the DnD way of not rounding up ever, do that, your choice).

For BAB, simply take the fractions (0,75 for rogues and 0,5 for wiz) and add it up and round as you wish.

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find a topic. I know it screws the balance between classes that rely on "save vs. effect", but then that was screwed to begin with, so no real loss there.

Comments/ideas?

Milskidasith
2010-07-16, 03:38 AM
I think you would prefer the fractional save variant where you only get the bonus +2 to good saves once.

The game is, oddly enough, relatively balanced on save DCs at the moment, so adjusting the formula really isn't necessary. If anything, it's possibly too easy to optimize saves because of stuff like paladins Cha to saves where you can get massive boosts to saving throws from small dips.

Knave
2010-07-16, 03:49 AM
As you say, this removes the "massive dips" but gives higher base saves...

I guess, when it comes down to it, I just want a respectable amount of will save for non-caster classes (okay, I know monk already has that but that's not really enough), instead of a piddly 6 at level 20 that you get unless you SPLAT LIKE THE FIST OF THE NORTH STAR.

Maybe it'd be just easier to make fighter and paladin get good will saves... I'm kind of sick of thinking to myself "oh this is awesome, too bad it only takes a charm person to ruin it".

Or maybe just nerf charm person. Hah.

/rant

DracoDei
2010-07-16, 07:40 AM
I use the fractional saves thing... I take it a bit further (I think?) in that I also use fractional ability score mods... things get rounded down (always down) RIGHT before you apply the dice roll and compare.

So now an 11 strength rogue is better of at some levels than a 10 strength rogue even in things other than carrying capacity or having a buffer against ability score drain/damage/burn.

FWIW, I also allow ability score boosting items at odd values, IE Gloves of Strength +1, +3, or +5 rather than just +2, +4, +6.

Knave
2010-07-16, 11:57 PM
How does good saves at 1/2 level, bad saves at 1/4, and everyone gets +2 to all saves at first level sound? It stays around the same as it is now for bad saves, and the fractions add up better than with the normal 1/2, 1/3 advancement. Also, no puffers (yay!).

DracoDei
2010-07-17, 06:47 AM
How does good saves at 1/2 level, bad saves at 1/4, and everyone gets +2 to all saves at first level sound? It stays around the same as it is now for bad saves, and the fractions add up better than with the normal 1/2, 1/3 advancement. Also, no puffers (yay!).
Removing distinctions between classes, to make basic math a little easier? Not for me...