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Adamaro
2010-07-16, 05:55 AM
There is an undead kingdom, consisting of undead mage-liches, vampires and similar undead entities, trading with other kingdoms, even offering services like creation of lichdom for the rich and servants in a form of skeletons and zombies for all those, willing to pay.

Now, as it happened, there was an ENORMOUS manifestation of negative energy detected about ten days walk north of Undead kingdom. After some divinations and scrying it turned out that an atropal has blinked into existence, quickly spamming Nightcrawlers, Nightwalkers, Nightwings and all kinds of spectres and ghosts into the world. As it seems, their master is bent on making the whole world dead.

Do you think that first mentioned undead would resist such turn of events?

Psyx
2010-07-16, 06:01 AM
Depends on their ultimate motivation.

If their trading and stability is simply just a front/something to do in order to build power and eventually destroy the world, then probably not.

But it seems that the undead are actively gaining from trade with others and by having a stable kingdom. If this new threat gives undead 'a bad name' then it's bad for business. If it threatens world stability, it's bad for business. If they wipe it out; it'll look good, which is good for business.

kamikasei
2010-07-16, 06:03 AM
Seems likely the vampires would at least, since they need living humans around to feed on.

In general I'd say yes, they'd oppose the atropal; they are undead, they don't have some kind of ideological commitment to being undead. If everyone else were undead, they'd lose several advantages their status grants them. Besides that, they're looking at an end to the world within which they exist - one that they could perhaps survive, but that would completely disrupt their unlives without particularly profiting them.

Lord Loss
2010-07-16, 06:04 AM
I think it depends on who we're talking about. Some would say that they should aid the undead in attaining their goal, others would say becoming an undead against their will is horrid, a few wouldn't care. All the while, some rich profiteers would seek to turn the conflict to their advantage, this could even cause a civil war.

Aroka
2010-07-16, 06:05 AM
Would the atropal's success benefit them? Do they want the entire world full of undead? Do they need the living for something? (Sounds like they do - vampires and lich-merchants selling undeath need a steady and large supply of mortals, preferrably ones with freedom of enterprise to create and gather wealth.)

It seems likely there'd be some division among them, though. Liches are often crazy and ideological, and some of them might actually like the idea of an "undead utopia."

Vizzerdrix
2010-07-16, 06:15 AM
That sort of undead outbreak would be bad for business, and could even cause the living to ally to remove all undead. The undead kingdoms best bet is to spearhead an assault against this new threat.

Aotrs Commander
2010-07-16, 06:21 AM
I can certainly speak of my own group, the Army Of The Red Spear, which is almost entirely composed of Spirt-Bound Liches. We do that kind of thing; we have plenty of legitimate buisnesses in the galaxy. Granted, they don't usually know who their ulitmate employer is, but...

Generally, the destruction of the world/universe is considered a Bad Thing. I mean, we keep our stuff there. Random chaos is so...messy and uncivilised. Just because we're Evil doesn't mean we have to be messy and crude.

Our responce, assuming we were that nation (say an outpost on a time-locked world; which we do actually have in places) would be to first send someone to negociate with the atropal and discover what it is actually planning to do (really it would be polite recon). If it was more of benefit to us than not, then we might help it: in the end, if it further our goals, we'll happily sacrifice a planet. Provided a) there is a big enough gain and b) we aren't going to bring the combiend wrath of the rest of the galaxy (or in this case, planet) down on us. We can get away with literal murder most days, but we are not so big we could fight everyone at once!

In the fairly probably event of not, we would kill the crap out of it, and indeed, actively spread the word to other nations and request help assistance and offer full co-operation in dealing with the threat. A good bit of PR does help, occasionally.



Certainly I would expect a similarly calculated response from a collection of mage-liches (Int being a fairly large thing, one guesses); particularly if the bulk of the nation is generally lawful.

super dark33
2010-07-16, 06:43 AM
well, if the night shades want, thay can take that kingdom for themselves and start attacking nearby kingdoms, with their leader, a highly powerfull nightwalker with wizard levels.the ''friendly'' liches will call for help, and the war begins, undead and humens and elvs and dwarvs and living things agienst evil demon night shades and their minions

Snake-Aes
2010-07-16, 06:44 AM
You said they run as a regular kingdom, as far as regular can be for the undead. They're intelligent, they interact with living beings for more than just "lul i r evil dead". I presume there would be many divided factions.
Those who think they could just spread the undeath to other kingdoms, to make more like their own.
Those who'd rather have living people around since they profit on those.
Those who'd rather be the only dominant intelligent undead in the park.

Most of them would hardly have any empathy for atropal just because they're all undead.

super dark33
2010-07-16, 06:49 AM
imagine azure city,but all as undead,in the shade(lol) to a threat of doom,calling for help from allied kingdoms



(intillegent lawfull good skelltal paladin? that id like to see)

Lord Vukodlak
2010-07-16, 01:04 PM
Given that Vampires require the blood of the living to survive they'd oppose anyone wanting to wipe out all life.

I recall being in a campaign trying to stop this undead shadow lord from forever blocking out the sun. When we ran into a gaggle of vampires I asked.
"Why do you serve him"
"Hes going to cover the world in darkness, the cursed sun extinguished"
"But without the sun all life on earth will die, then who will you drink"

The vampires paused, obviously having never thought of that. The DM hadn't either.

Cog
2010-07-16, 01:37 PM
I presume there would be many divided factions.
This. Getting your players mixed up the the middle of the undead nation's civil war while they're trying to handle the atropal could be pretty fun.

Randel
2010-07-16, 01:53 PM
I think it would boil down to a sort of three-way war.

1). The Atropal who is creating undead beings loyal to itself and generating negative energy to turn all life undead.

2). The living civilizations who would be wiped out by the Atropal and its forces.

3). The kingdom of the undead who are loyal to the living civilizations but are somewhat immune to the Atropals attacks.


The nations full of living people would have to fight back out of necessity in order to survive, if the Atropal wins then they all die. They would be somewhat vulnerable to the negative energy and monsters the Atropal spawns.

The good undead guys would be in a pretty good position, if they fight against the Atropal and beat it then they look like heroes. If the Atropal wins and destroys all life... then the undead would still be able to survive the apocalypse. Pretty much either way they win, but the win more if they kill the Atropal. Heck, if they actually want to take over the world then they can do it themselves on their own terms, no need to get help from freaky monsters like that.


The Undead kingdom would probably start out by sending its armies of undead toward the area of negative energy (I'm assuming that the negative enrgy field heals undead and injured living) and start killing the monsters the atropal spawns or at least try to hold them back. The loyal armies of the undead would make the best front-line combatants due to being healed by negative energy. The armies of the living could stay back a ways and kill any monsters that make it past the negative energy field.

Loyal Undead would meanwhile work to increase their numbers, asking the living kingdoms to give them corpses to animate as soldiers or anyone too wounded to be healed could be turned into a loyal undead by the vampires or Shadows or Liches or whatnot. I'm assuming the Atropal would turn people or corpses into undead loyal to itself, turning into a Good Undead would be a plus in this situation because you'll be turning undead anyway... might as well stick with the right team.

Plus, the vampires at least would be helping to protect the living population. Maybe create underground secure shelters or extra-dimensional vaults where survivors can live even if the Atropal does conquer the world.


So, I'm thinking the Undead Kingdom would want to show themselves fighting on the front lines while still hedging their bets both ways to make sure they come out on top no matter what the outcome. Or at least make sure they don't lose. Fight the battle against the Atropal in ways that they excel while making sure that all the living kingdoms help out. Swell their ranks by converting any of the living who fall in the battle (since living people will die and will become undead, each one they convert is one fighting on their side and doesn't join the Atropal), make sure the living kingdoms give them the resources they need to keep up the battle (there are near unlimited numbers of corpses in graveyards that can be turned into soldiers to fight the atropal, but the undead kingdom has limited spell components to turn them into soldiers) and make sure that women and children are kept away from the fight.


If the Undead Kingdom pulls out all the stops and fights for the living and gets the support of the other living kingdoms, then they will be seen as heroes and their ranks will have swollen due to all the people who became undead to get immunity from the negative energy. Heck, after the War of the Atropal the Undead Kingdom could try forming an alliance with all the living kingdoms and set up some kind of world army to protect against future attacks. Everyone pools in their recources and dead to the Undead Army and they in turn protect the world from pretty much any invader that would attack.


However, if they lose and the Atropal covers the world in darkness, then the Undead would still win in a way. Doubtless, as the shadow of negative energy covers the landscape there will be plenty of people lining up to join the ranks of the undead just to escape the certain death that the Atropal brings.

If the Atropals forces are heading toward a city full of people, many of the inhabitants will try to flee but the Undead Kingdom could send one vampire or a wight or other spawning undead to 'convert' any volunteers who wish to stand up against the Atropal menace. A city of millions of humans would be slaughtered by the Atropal... but if the women and children flee and the men stay behind to be turned into combat-capable undead spawn then the Atropal will run into a city full of half a million undead spawn hurling themselves into battle to cover their loved ones escape.

Meanwhile, those Undead that aren't fighting the Atropal could be working on emergency shelters or some way to protect the living inhabitants. They could build fortified shelters to protect against the monsters and maybe some way to keep areas safe from the negative energy. Magic could provide the survivors with the food and water they need, and protection from the negative energy and Atropal forces.

If the Atropal wins then the Undead Kingdom would work to assimilate all the people who don't want to die. They either join the undead and live on as soldiers fighting the Atropal or they live on as survivors living in the vaults... possibly providing the vampires with the blood they need as payment for protecting them.

Depending on how the Atropal views the Undead Kingdom, the post-apocalyptic world would either consist of a united force of undead fighting the Atropal until it is defeated or massive numbers of undead trying to get on with their lives as the living are kept inside secure bunkers and the vampires work to protect their foodstock. I think alot of the living people in the bunkers would be studying to become mages or something... anyone without class level could be put on blood-donor duty.

grarrrg
2010-07-16, 02:30 PM
There is an undead kingdom, consisting of...mage-liches, vampires... skeletons and zombies...master...making the whole world dead.


How would they react?
I can't speak for the first 3 but I'm pretty sure the zombies will shamble around and say "braaaaiiinnnnssss" a lot.

Jergmo
2010-07-16, 02:32 PM
This gives me fond memories of Planescape: Torment and The Dead Nation for some reason - one of the factions should be made up of ghouls and ghasts, who have been kept under a tight leash and they see it as an opportunity to turn on the others so they can feed freely! Ghouls are rather shortsighted that way.

Snake-Aes
2010-07-16, 02:34 PM
This kingdom of the dead, is ALL of the population undead? And what is their reason to be so? Do they have free will? Once I saw a city where undeath was part of the religious cult. They believed undeath was the ultimate blessing of illumination. Such people would see the atropal either as a prophet(bringing the undeath) or as an abomination(blessing the impure and unprepared)

Jergmo
2010-07-16, 02:41 PM
This kingdom of the dead, is ALL of the population undead? And what is their reason to be so? Do they have free will? Once I saw a city where undeath was part of the religious cult. They believed undeath was the ultimate blessing of illumination. Such people would see the atropal either as a prophet(bringing the undeath) or as an abomination(blessing the impure and unprepared)

I would assume that a fair amount of the commoners are living, and the vampires cull the sick and elderly, along with prisoners or somesuch, you know?

Hehe. "Assuming, that was, he didn't get culled for his disability. Or any other arbitrary reason, really."

Prime32
2010-07-16, 03:09 PM
There is an undead kingdom, consisting of undead mage-liches, vampires and similar undead entities, trading with other kingdoms, even offering services like creation of lichdom for the rich and servants in a form of skeletons and zombies for all those, willing to pay.

Now, as it happened, there was an ENORMOUS manifestation of negative energy detected about ten days walk north of Undead kingdom. After some divinations and scrying it turned out that an atropal has blinked into existence, quickly spamming Nightcrawlers, Nightwalkers, Nightwings and all kinds of spectres and ghosts into the world. As it seems, their master is bent on making the whole world dead.

Do you think that first mentioned undead would resist such turn of events?The answer wouldn't be that simple.

For instance, replace "undead" with "black people" and "living" with "white people". It sounds absurd when you ask "Some black people are killing white people. How would this kingdom react, given that they're black?" so why should the undead kingdom's reaction be determined solely by the fact that they're undead?

Lhurgyof
2010-07-16, 03:17 PM
Yeah, bad guy's don't automatically work together. Sounds like they'd be pissed.