Durkon, Malack, and holy symbols.

[Roy III]

As far as I can see, in the most recent comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0735.html), Durkon and Malack's holy symbols are thoroughly visible around each person's neck.

Wouldn't it seem like Durkon would immediately recognize Malack's status as the cleric of an evil deity, and Malack the same for Durkon and a good deity? Heck, Durkon flat-out states that he's a cleric of Thor. You'd think that that would have spurred Malack or his minions into combat right then and there.

Perhaps clerics in this world all trust each other through some worldwide pact? I'm certain Durkon and Redcloak would have reacted violently to one another, though.

Or maybe their reverence for deities in general is so great that they wouldn't even consider fighting in a church? That seems plausible, I can't remember if the Order has been in any other churches.

[Closak]

Or it could be that neither of them would have anything to win from attacking the other.

Who said that good and evil HAVE to try to kill each other at first sight?

[Allan Surgite]

You make the assumption that the two are naught more than beasts; to see a rival is to kill that rival. Yet they are sentient and quite competent beings - they recognise that they have no reason to fight each other at this moment in time, ergo there is no need to fight.

It's also the reason why the world isn't embroiled in a worldwide war at the moment, I think.

[Kish]

As far as I can see, in the most recent comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0735.html), Durkon and Malack's holy symbols are thoroughly visible around each person's neck.

Wouldn't it seem like Durkon would immediately recognize Malack's status as the cleric of an evil deity,

Durkon didn't even recognize that the woman shouting about how she served Loki, Lord of Fire and Chaos, was a cleric of his god's worst enemy, remember?

Why Malack is being so friendly to Durkon so far is, of course, another question.

[LuPuWei]

So far the only violent interreligious reaction we've seen has been from Miko and Redcloak, where the groups involved have had a long histroy of violence and warfare. Also, whereas opposing Gods like Thor and Loki are rivals, they are still really brothers of a Pantheon, whereas the Dark One is a relatively new Usurper, not one of the Gods preestablished brotherhood.

Truth is, we haven't really seen much of how clerics of different religions interact with eachother and hwo they view eachothers Gods. Unlike the real world, here they at least acknowledge that other Gods exist. Nor do we really know who it is Malack worships. If his Gods are from the Western Pantheon, evil or not Thor may just not really care.

I'm really not sure if Durkon would attack redcloak if they just happened to meet on the street, with none of their prior adventures having taken place...

[Ancalagon]

Apparently, most people/clerics in the OotS-world are smarter than filling their world with lots and lots of pointless holy wars...

[NerfTW]

They aren't Paladins, and who says Malack is worshiping evil gods? He could be worshiping the general Western pantheon.


Plus, Durkon's not stupid, he needs to get information. Attacking the person you need help from is just short sighted. And Malack may be helping run an evil empire, but you don't stay standing by kicking out every good aligned emissary that walks through.

I think everyone's views on politics in the OotSverse are tinted a bit by Azure City, a Paladin run city.

[PallElendro]

Who said that good and evil HAVE to try to kill each other at first sight?

Paladins did that.

[Ancalagon]

Paladins did that.

Wrong. They did not. Miko did that.

But last time I looked the Sapphire Guard co-existed quite violent-free with a bunch of evil Lords in Azure City. For decades.

Apparently, even Paladins (apart from Whacko-Miko) think you need to do something evil before they do something against you (in this discussion that "something" is killing).

[Skeletoff]

An evil person doesn't attack people because they are good, just like he doesn't automatically ally himself with any evil being he meets.
Evil doesn't care about other people's alignment.

[Darcy]

It seems the different pantheons of OOTS-world openly acknowledge one anothers' existence, and share the human population's sum belief amongst themselves. I don't think it's necessary for priests of different gods to be any more hostile to each other than their respective deities. I imagine Durkon being hostile towards a cleric of Surtr is more likely than him getting in a fight with a cleric of a god from another pantheon entirely.

Traditionally holy wars are a matter of both sides believing their god is the "true" god, and in this world, it's just known fact (at least amongst religious types) that all these different gods are real. The only holy war would result from a god or group of gods not wanting to share anymore.

[pendell]

I think the important thing to remember is that they are both LAWFUL clerics. Malack is one of the rulers of a city which presumably has subjects of many alignments. Ergo, he probably won't attack the average person in his city unless the person is violating the law in some way. Durkon is a legal visitor to the city and therefore is deserving of the courtesy any visiting cleric would be due.

Durkon, for his part, is in a lawful city. So he also can't attack another person just because he doesn't care for the being's personal philosophy. Furthermore, he's attempting to win the release of his comrades from the government , so attacking one of that government's foremost ministers is diplomatically unwise whatever his alignment.

In another time and another place, it's possible that Durkon and Malack could rule the city together, if their devotion to the ideal of Law is strong enough to overcome their philosophical differences.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Shale]

Not to mention that in Malack's job, with a land like the Western Continent, you never know who's going to end up being your next employer.

[Nilan8888]

I figure it's a bit like this:

Good and Evil are not unalteringly opposed. They unalteringly DISAPPROVE of the decisions of one another, but they are not automatically disposed to the destruction of one another.

There are likely Gods who are mortally opposed to one another and whose followers will destroy one another on sight. We have seen not seen those sorts of Gods. We HAVE seen followers of the 12 God Eatern Pantheon at immediate odds with followers of the Dark One, but it's uncertain what that means: are the Paladins given to the followings of ONE of the 12 Gods who is diametrically opposed to the Dark One and vice/versa? Is it the whole Pantheon that is this way vs. the Dark One? Was it only because we were dealing with Paladins who are a bit overzealous to the mandates of thier Gods and the clerics of the same Pantheon are not actually as adamant on the destruction of the Goblin Race?

It would seem to me the last option is proably the most relevant, with some nod at least to the second: that the preferences of the Gods for the Azure City Paladins were treated more seriously by them than the very Gods they came from. The Eastern Pantheon was no doubt opposed to the Dark One, but I'm suspicious that it was thier mandate that all followers seek out to remove Goblins on sight or to raze thier villages wherever they might be found.

As a rule, any evil diety and any good diety probably do not approve of one another's viewpoint but they allow one another to peacefully co-exist so long as thier interests remain seperate. There are some dieties who no doubt are hungry for power or perfection that don't permit this. But Thor isn't one of those dieties and neither is Malack's diety, and neither are most dieties. And even deities who are at odds will not always involve thier followers in the dispute.

Given thier natures Malack and Durkon are probably headed for some inevitable uncomfortable moments on a long enough timeline, as are Tarquin and Elan. But all the characters are at this point probably aware of the general alignment of one another, and BOTH sides might be avoiding or putting off the subject (not just Haley and Elan).

[Carduus]

And also note that (if memory serves), many gods allow a decent chunk of the alignment grid to worship them. Thor certainly isn't lawful. Maybe whichever god Malack has on there (or, like someone else said, maybe he worships the whole Western pantheon) has a potential for neutral or even good followers. Except for a few examples, you can't know someone's exact alignment just from what deity they worship.

[The Wanderer]

{Scrubbed}

[Nilan8888]

I'm sure it won't be a problem for everyone here to instantly know which religions they represent, and whether the people who ascribe to that religion are "good" or not, right?

Lol, that would actually be true only for the alternate use of the LAST symbol you posted (and for them it was close enough to a holy symbol). Which you justly reminded us not to confuse it with.

[Gorgondantess]

{Scrubbed}

[denthor]

My clerics would not attack another cleric in a city, on there holy ground unless under orders.

One of my evil cleric's even thought it was a good idea to form a truce with her near exact opposite. The exact opposite she never encountered. her god was Toldeth if you want to look it up.

she was a cleric of a god from a negative plane that believed undead would be the highest evolution of man. she gave any Pelor cleric of the sun to pass thruogh her held goblin village with a simple flag of yellow and black.

[NerfTW]

And also note that (if memory serves), many gods allow a decent chunk of the alignment grid to worship them. Thor certainly isn't lawful. Maybe whichever god Malack has on there (or, like someone else said, maybe he worships the whole Western pantheon) has a potential for neutral or even good followers. Except for a few examples, you can't know someone's exact alignment just from what deity they worship.

Actually, the Giant has stated that the Thor in OotS is in fact Lawful.

And while you might be able to tell someone's alignment from the god they worship, it still doesn't tell you what they do. People within one alignment aren't carbon copies of eachother. Thog, for example, can be pretty easily swayed towards being good, despite clearly gravitating towards evil acts on his own. And then there's the MitD, who may or may not be evil, neutral, or possibly good. (Although good is unlikely, since he seems to be okay with eating adult people)

[The MunchKING]

Was it only because we were dealing with Paladins who are a bit overzealous to the mandates of thier Gods and the clerics of the same Pantheon are not actually as adamant on the destruction of the Goblin Race?

Well thier stated goal was killing the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, and stopping any of those present from becoming a new bearer. Thus, I don't think genocide was really thier idea either.


And even deities who are at odds will not always involve thier followers in the dispute.

On the contrary, I thought in the OOTS verse that was the main, if not oNLY way they were allowed to fight. Too much divine anger and rage turns into Snarls remember...

[The MunchKING]

{Scrubbed}

Any priests here maybe, most of us don't have any ranks of Knowledge: Religion. Which Clerics get as class skills.

[Kish]

Actually, the Giant has stated that the Thor in OotS is in fact Lawful.
Rich said what to you in the Telephone Game, now?

Well thier stated goal was killing the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, and stopping any of those present from becoming a new bearer.

Their stated goal was: Having killed the target, clean up the rest of the vermin before going home. Don't edit before making assertions about what's on the page.

Any priests here maybe, most of us don't have any ranks of Knowledge: Religion. Which Clerics get as class skills.
And which Durkon is established as not having many ranks in, back when he met Hilgya, remember?

[NerfTW]

On the contrary, I thought in the OOTS verse that was the main, if not oNLY way they were allowed to fight. Too much divine anger and rage turns into Snarls remember...

Yup, they expressly stated in the Start of Darkness flashback that

they are not allowed to directly intervene in areas outside their geographic region. To allow for problems that affect them from areas they aren't allowed to act in, clerics were created.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham:Please don't talk about real world religion in direct and obvious contravention of the Forum Rules.

[snikrept]

It's already been established that Durkon has a horrible Knowledge: Religion check.

Plus, do we know much conclusive Malack's alignment yet? He dresses like the grim reaper, has a presumably LE warlord for a best buddy, and has a scratchy speech bubble, but he hasn't done much to peg him as anything yet.

Threatening to feed Elan to the dragon even if he wasn't Nale, I guess could push him toward evil (and also chaotic!). Though that struck me more as an exaggerated, exasperated joke of the sort Roy always used to make about Elan too.

[Belsirk]

It's already been established that Durkon has a horrible Knowledge: Religion check.

Plus, do we know much conclusive Malack's alignment yet? He dresses like the grim reaper, has a presumably LE warlord for a best buddy, and has a scratchy speech bubble, but he hasn't done much to peg him as anything yet.

Threatening to feed Elan to the dragon even if he wasn't Nale, I guess could push him toward evil (and also chaotic!). Though that struck me more as an exaggerated, exasperated joke of the sort Roy always used to make about Elan too.

I'm with the idea, a LE and a LG aren't exactly opposed (Those should be CG, CE) they can work with tension, but can work (o talk without killiing themselves) , Malack want to revenge his children so he was chaotic there, but as he didn't had a problem healing V and still be calm with a Thor's cleric (Malak seem to have enough ranks on Religious (Check ) ) seem he is LE, or maybe NE but i'm more to LE

Another clasic example with religious : Evild druids work "fine" with good druids, even a elven druid will help a gnoll druid (Well... at least for a time)

[Nilan8888]

On the contrary, I thought in the OOTS verse that was the main, if not oNLY way they were allowed to fight. Too much divine anger and rage turns into Snarls remember...

Then how does the second part of this square with that?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0079.html

Also, I was not referring to anything taking place on the mortal plane. I was referring to two dieties having a beef with one another, for whtever reason, and they simply go to that diety in person.

There's another comic from War and XPs showing Thor and Odin interacting with a couple of the Eastern Dieties as well, showing they can interact with dieties not of thier own region.

[Dr.Epic]

Wouldn't it seem like Durkon would immediately recognize Malack's status as the cleric of an evil deity, and Malack the same for Durkon and a good deity?

Since when do we know that Malack worships an evil deity?

Also, let Durkon enjoy his new bromance. They are hardly any other clerics in oots that aren't named Red Cloak.

[LuPuWei]

{Scrubbed}

[The Wanderer]

*Shrugs* Well, so much for trying to illustrate a point.

Anyway, lots of religions use multiple symbols, or ones that don't appear directly related to the religion in question and not all of them are going to be recognizable on sight, especially if you don't have a lot of experience with the religion in question.

[SoC175]

But last time I looked the Sapphire Guard co-existed quite violent-free with a bunch of evil Lords in Azure City. For decades.
They even worship a pantheon that includes an evil deity (or maybe more than just one)

[LuPuWei]

They even worship a pantheon that includes an evil deity (or maybe more than just one)

Which one is the Evil one? (Don't say snake, please don't say snake.....)

[rewinn]

Then how does the second part of this square with that?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0079.html

My theory is that intra-Pantheon battles are o.k. so long as they don't threaten the fabric of reality itself.

Thor vs. Loki is just family squabbling, writ large. It's best to let kids settle things on their own so long as they don't burn down the house.

[The MunchKING]

Which one is the Evil one? (Don't say snake, please don't say snake.....)

Rat was hanging out with the other evil gods.

[derfenrirwolv]

As far as I can see, in the most recent comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0735.html), Durkon and Malack's holy symbols are thoroughly visible around each person's neck.
[QUOTE]
Wouldn't it seem like Durkon would immediately recognize Malack's status as the cleric of an evil deity?

First off, we don't even know IF Malak is a cleric of an evil deity, or even is evil. He could worship good or neutral gods, or even the entire western pantheon both good and evil

Secondly, Durkon doesn't seem to have put all that many points into Knowledge religion.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html

.. MAYBY a few more than belkar put in track.



and Malack the same for Durkon and a good deity? Heck, Durkon flat-out states that he's a cleric of Thor. You'd think that that would have spurred Malack or his minions into combat right then and there.

Why? Because ones good and ones evil they have to fight? Durkon also respects the law and is unlikely to do more than talk.



Perhaps clerics in this world all trust each other through some worldwide pact? I'm certain Durkon and Redcloak would have reacted violently to one another, though.

Probably, but its hard to develop hostile feelings towards things you never interact with.. like deities on the far side of the ocean and a non interference pact.



Or maybe their reverence for deities in general is so great that they wouldn't even consider fighting in a church? That seems plausible, I can't remember if the Order has been in any other churches

think on how durkon dealt with miko. Even though she was slicing up his party like shishkabob she served the gods and that MEANT something to the resident bearded wonder.

[Swordpriest]

{Scrubbed}

[FeanorFireHeart]

{scrubbed}
human sacrifices doesn't necessarily mean LE. That's a strictly ethnocentric viewpoint (no offense meant). I wont get into it because of the Mod's warning and that's another topic for another time in another place.

But I agree, what makes Malack evil? we dont know of his deity. And just because Tarquin is said to be LE doesnt mean anything. for all we know Malch is lawful neutral and so is the deity he worships. I think a lot of assuming is going on.:smallannoyed:

[Belsirk]

You might want to check out the Aztec religion before you say that. If that ain't a RL example of a Lawful Evil religion, with moments of Chaotic Evil, then I don't know what is .... :smalleek:

HEY! The ancient Mexicans needed a source of Red MEAT!!!! ( guess which were the first tacos on the history :smallbiggrin: ) and don't say... i fear the giant as Mexicas fear the red Hutchi


However, assume Malack it's evil it's safe option... we already know Tarquin and the Empress of Blood are evil... Malack as a powerful cleric will only support them if his deity let him to do the need acts, He can Evil, maybe LN, True neutral or CN ... maybe he is Evil and his deity Neutral or Lawful (but not LG) or viceversa however, what is certain... we can¿t hope finding via Durkon :smallfrown:

[Red XIV]

On the contrary, I thought in the OOTS verse that was the main, if not oNLY way they were allowed to fight. Too much divine anger and rage turns into Snarls remember...
We've seen Thor fight Loki (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0079.html) and move to fight Surtur before he got distracted (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0040.html). So at least within their own pantheons they're clearly allowed to fight.

[Ancalagon]

We've seen Thor fight Loki (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0079.html) and move to fight Surtur before he got distracted (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0040.html). So at least within their own pantheons they're clearly allowed to fight.

I think that's more the equivalent of barroom brawls. Of course they hate each other but... they are gods. They probably are bored and they do not really hurt each other, not even speaking of killing each other.

Humans (and elves and...) that fight over religion? Often does not go without killing.

And what is this "allowed" anyway? There's no one who can allow or disallow fights among the gods.

[Voyager_I]

From what we know about Malack's past, his attitude about adventuring, and the general history of the Western Continent, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that he's gone to considerable efforts to avoid having to do any of his fighting himself anymore.

Besides which, although he's almost certainly evil, we've seem him be downright courteous to anyone not causing him any grief. The Western Continent likely breeds a "live and let live" attitude amongst its inhabitants (or at least, the ones who live for very long). There's enough trouble going around that nobody needs to look for more.


For Durkon's part...even if he recognizes Malack for what he is, what's he going to do about it? We already know that treating evil alignments as a capital offense is not the correct interpretation of good in this setting (see: Miko), and Malack has been nothing but polite. Even if that weren't the case, Durkon don't have much choice about playing by the rules unless he thinks he's going to solo an entire empire to bust his friends out of jail.

[Nimrod's Son]

{Scrubbed}
As a devout Aztec I am hurt and offended by your comments.

[tomandtish]

Wrong. They did not. Miko did that.

But last time I looked the Sapphire Guard co-existed quite violent-free with a bunch of evil Lords in Azure City. For decades.

Apparently, even Paladins (apart from Whacko-Miko) think you need to do something evil before they do something against you (in this discussion that "something" is killing).

This would be the lawful part of lawful good. Presumably the laws in Azure City require trials and guilty verdicts (at least within city limits). Otherwise Shojo could have gotten rid of the evil nobles plotting to overthrow him just by having paladins use Detect Evil and slaying those who tested positive. Hinjo could have done the same to get rid of Kubota. Unless the laws themselves are blatantly evil, Lawful Good characters still need to try and follow them.

Same for Durkon. Even if he obviously recognizes Malack as a cleric of an evil god (for the sake of argument), there's no obvious evil act Malack has committed. The EOB's laws may be strict, and their punishments draconian (oops, sorry about that), but I'm not sure Durkon himself has seen any actual evil occurring yet.

[Ancalagon]

This would be the lawful part of lawful good.

Whatever part it was. Point is they did not wage war just because the Lords were Evil. And Shojo, who was Chaotic Good, also did not find a reason to smash the "ah, so evil lords, just because they are evil and harm the city".

Whatever poart it was: apparently plain "evil vs good" is not enough for a waror killings in OotS (Miko was the broken exception and the entire point about her character was she was the broken exception).

[hamishspence]

This would be the lawful part of lawful good.

If you believe BoED, it's the good part, not the Lawful part- you need "just cause" to kill anyone- even anyone Evil- and "they detect as evil" is not enough.

[Carduus]

Actually, the Giant has stated that the Thor in OotS is in fact Lawful.

Where exactly is this? Last I remember, the debate was whether Rich houseruled the 'one step' rule for D&D religions to allow an LG to worship a CG, not that there was more than a minor question about whether OOTS Thor was anything other than CG. Only if you squint right at the Thor strips could you even justify that he's NG.

[Scarlet Knight]

I always played that clerics could & should follow the whole pantheon in a polytheistic game. Similar to the Iliad. If you go to sea, you worship the god of the ocean. Need a good harvest? The earth goddess, etc. If the god is good , you worship, if Evil, you appease. Sure, you have a Patron deity whose practices you try to spread, but if you worship a god of battle, you still better have pennies for the eyes of your fallen comrades to get them past the god of death.

[Nilan8888]

We've seen Thor fight Loki and move to fight Surtur before he got distracted. So at least within their own pantheons they're clearly allowed to fight.

Right. Actually I think the're allowed to fight any God from any Pathneon anywhere, anytime.

What they DON'T want to do is get into arguments while they're spinning the fabric of creation. THAT is what causes the snarl, not the point that they happen to be in conflict.

True, one God cannot intervene in the district of another on the mortal plane itself. But outside the mortal plane it's allowed.

[NerfTW]

We've seen Thor fight Loki (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0079.html) and move to fight Surtur before he got distracted (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0040.html). So at least within their own pantheons they're clearly allowed to fight.


Right. Actually I think the're allowed to fight any God from any Pathneon anywhere, anytime.




As I posted earlier, the only rule, as given in SOD is that they can't interfere outside of their geographical region of influence, except through clerics. Inside that area, they can fight all they want.

[St Fan]

As I posted earlier, the only rule, as given in SOD is that they can't interfere outside of their geographical region of influence, except through clerics. Inside that area, they can fight all they want.

We see an example of this in strip #453 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html), with Thor getting some Flak from Tiger for the help he provided (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html) to Durkon in Cliffport, which is part of the Southern continent.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/Thor.png "Geez, I mean, you bend the rules for a follower ONE TIME, and they never let you live it down."

[FeanorFireHeart]

We see an example of this in strip #453 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0453.html), with Thor getting some Flak from Tiger for the help he provided (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html) to Durkon in Cliffport, which is part of the Southern continent.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i294/trytoguess/Thor.png "Geez, I mean, you bend the rules for a follower ONE TIME, and they never let you live it down."

nah, that wasnt for cliffport, cliffport is still a thor friendly zone, it was because he granted Durkon extra speed. It says so in the comic you posted.

[Gift Jeraff]

I always thought they were never letting Thor live down bending the rules of Control Weather, so they didn't allow Thor to grant Durkon extra speed (because that would be breaking the gods' own rules).

Seeing as how Greysky City appears to have Loki as the main deity and Cliffport is even further north, I'd gander that Cliffport is well within the Northern pantheon's territory. (Plus, neither Greysky nor Cliffport have an Asian theme.)

[Ancalagon]

Seeing as how Greysky City appears to have Loki as the main deity and Cliffport is even further north, I'd gander that Cliffport is well within the Northern pantheon's territory. (Plus, neither Greysky nor Cliffport have an Asian theme.)

Loki vs. Thor is no problem. Thor's from the same pantheon as Loki, therefore he's responsible for the same part of the world (northern), therefore he can interfere in Loki-places (what Loki thinks of that and if he tries to interfere is a different matter but "not allowed in others territory" is about cross-pantheon-interaction).

[Nimrod's Son]

nah, that wasnt for cliffport, cliffport is still a thor friendly zone, it was because he granted Durkon extra speed. It says so in the comic you posted.
No it doesn't. It says Durkon prayed for speed, but didn't get it (Because Tiger wouldn't let Thor interfere).

[Nilan8888]

We see an example of this in strip #453, with Thor getting some Flak from Tiger for the help he provided to Durkon in Cliffport, which is part of the Southern continent.

I think that's actually proof of what I was talking about.

The Gods are NOT allowed to interfere in regions beyond thier influence. But if Thor wanted to go up and smack Tiger in the face up there in the astrals, he could go ahead and do just that.

The Gods fighting won't end creation -- at least, not directly. Just if they do it while working the strands.



Loki vs. Thor is no problem. Thor's from the same pantheon as Loki, therefore he's responsible for the same part of the world (northern), therefore he can interfere in Loki-places (what Loki thinks of that and if he tries to interfere is a different matter but "not allowed in others territory" is about cross-pantheon-interaction).

That would mean that for some reason Thor could not have attacked Tiger in thier interaction in the aforementioned comic. Although we don't have concrete proof of that, I personally doubt that to be the case.

[kpenguin]

The most recent strip may clear some things up on this subject, foremost that Malack does not worship a strictly Evil deity.

[Blackdog]

The most recent strip may clear some things up on this subject, foremost that Malack does not worship a strictly Evil deity.


As Blue Ghost pointed out (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8991309&postcount=21) in the main discussion thread, we can't actually be sure of this.

[Dusk Eclipse]

As a devout Aztec I am hurt and offended by your comments.

I don't follow Aztec religion; but I am mexican and I have to agree with you, that those kinds of comments hurt my national pride.

Incidentally Nimrod's Son are you mexican? I am curious cause I don't know many mexicans in the forum.

[Nimrod's Son]

Er, no. I was just being silly. :smallredface:

[Gift Jeraff]

Loki vs. Thor is no problem. Thor's from the same pantheon as Loki, therefore he's responsible for the same part of the world (northern), therefore he can interfere in Loki-places (what Loki thinks of that and if he tries to interfere is a different matter but "not allowed in others territory" is about cross-pantheon-interaction).
Er, I don't see how Thor vs. Loki is relevant to what I said. :smallredface: I was saying how since Greysky is in Northern territory (since Loki seems to be the main deity of worship there), Cliffport most likely is, too, because someone said Cliffport is a Southern nation.

[The MunchKING]

And what is this "allowed" anyway? There's no one who can allow or disallow fights among the gods.

All the other Gods?

Odin for the Norse is traditionally more powerful than his kids, I'd assume he could break the two up, especially if he had the help of the others. Same idea with Zues, etc.

Now obviously with an pantheon it's OK, or maybe as long as they aren't trying to manipulate reality, but just bonk eachother with hammers it's all good. but my point was the Gods as a collective agreed that big time fighting was beneath them, and more importantly DANGEROUS. that's why they divied the world up like that.

[factotum]

Er, I don't see how Thor vs. Loki is relevant to what I said. :smallredface: I was saying how since Greysky is in Northern territory (since Loki seems to be the main deity of worship there), Cliffport most likely is, too, because someone said Cliffport is a Southern nation.

Two things:

a) We don't know that Loki is the "main" deity worshipped in Greysky--all we know is that *one* cleric from the town happened to worship him.

b) Cliffport must be a Southern nation because Thor wasn't supposed to intervene there--he got dressed down by Tiger for that.

[Beorn080]

Two things:

a) We don't know that Loki is the "main" deity worshipped in Greysky--all we know is that *one* cleric from the town happened to worship him.

b) Cliffport must be a Southern nation because Thor wasn't supposed to intervene there--he got dressed down by Tiger for that.

a) I'm fairly sure that they go to a Church of Loki. Admittedly, that doesn't mean its the main church, but it seems to be a smallish city.

b) Thor was never dressed down by Tiger for the actions in Cliffport. Thor's assistant tried to remind him that Control Weather doesn't work that way, but that was it. Thor was dressed down by Tiger for attempting to directly assist Durkon during the Battle for Azure City. Personally, it would seem that Tiger is making sure Thor doesn't get involved in their territory.

As for the chat between Durkon and Malack, panel 3, pg 737. Either he doesn't like the tea, or he just failed a craft: Alchemy check for identifying substances.

[snikrept]

As for the chat between Durkon and Malack, panel 3, pg 737. Either he doesn't like the tea, or he just failed a craft: Alchemy check for identifying substances.
Yeh, I took that to mean he just got poisoned somehow:smallbiggrin:

[Lvl45DM!]

As to dwarves worshipping human gods it if you have a look at Thor and Hel in this last strip they are at least 10 metres tall so they dont look like humans either, rather giants
Now im aware thats a subtle distinction but its the same dynamic as dwarves worshipping human gods

[Ancalagon]

All the other Gods?

Counterexample: You have not read much about the (real) Loki-mythology? If the OotS-version is only a little bit like the version he got inspirated from, "setting rules" isn't going to work THAT hot.

[LuPuWei]

The most recent strip may clear some things up on this subject, foremost that Malack does not worship a strictly Evil deity.

Yeah, and how religions interract in the OotSverse, etc- its like he penned the strip for this thread!

[JonestheSpy]

Yeah, and how religions interract in the OotSverse, etc- its like he penned the strip for this thread!

It wouldn't surprise me if RB wrote the strip with the collection-readers in mind, after noting all the questions about his religious system that have popped up on the boards.

On the forum, there's this big collective mind piecing things together, the collection reader doesn't have that help...or handicap, depending on the circumstance.

[calar]

Low Knowledge(Religion) check and the fact that Malack is neutral instead of true evil as seen last comic.

[Nimrod's Son]

Low Knowledge(Religion) check and the fact that Malack is neutral instead of true evil as seen last comic.
He never said that. In fact, the way he phrased it makes me suspect he's hiding something there.

[Ancalagon]

He never said that. In fact, the way he phrased it makes me suspect he's hiding something there.

I have the same impression. "My master is an Evil Death & Destruction Deity, but that does not have to mean me and my master are evil and bad, m'kay?"

The question is... why does he do that? Isn't he happy with himself a proxy of death and destruction and he rather wants to build an empire? Or does he only like Durkon and would want to keep him as nice friend (or so) but knows that "evil death and destruction" does not sit well with Thor and his clerics?

[Querzis]

I have the same impression. "My master is an Evil Death & Destruction Deity, but that does not have to mean me and my master are evil and bad, m'kay?"

He did not say "My master is an Evil Death & Destruction Deity, but that does not have to mean me and my master are evil and bad, m'kay?" He said that his master was a death deity and that, in general, death deity and their clerics are neutral which is perfectly true. Few religion had the death god as evil, hes almost always neutral and Death is really supposed to be neutral no matter how you look at it. There is a difference between a god of Death and a god of Murder.

That being said, I agree that this really doesnt mean hes not evil but I dont get the impression it means hes evil either because, really, why would he try to hide it? They were having a theological discussion, his comment wasnt meant to indicate anything about him as far as I'm concerned, he was just making a comment about Death deity and their cleric in general. I dont think it really means anything. Right now he hasnt done anything especially evil himself, we just assume hes evil because the empire of blood in general is evil and hes one of his leader. But since hes supposed to be the religious leader and not the one who makes the law, I dont think we can rule out the possibility that hes neutral just yet.