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View Full Version : Pondering Gestalt Options (D&D3.5)



ForumFerret
2010-07-16, 03:24 PM
Starting a new Gestalt game soon, and I'm heavily debating whether or not I should go Psion (Telepath) // Warblade or Erudite (Spell to Power) // Warblade.

The crux of my dilemma is the 5th level Telepath option to gain Su:Telepathy - due to house rules, I'll have a feat to spend at this level, and I would take MindSight. This is a heavily dungeon-based game, and I just can't decide if the huge benefit of Mindsight would be worth the vast potential versatility of the Spell to Power Erudite.

There's an outside chance this dilemma will make me decide to just say the hell with it and go Factotum//Warblade instead.

Thoughts/experiences?

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-16, 03:25 PM
You could always use the Psionic Adaptation of Mindbender to get Telepathy instead for Mindsight.

Keld Denar
2010-07-16, 03:29 PM
Mindsight is pretty good. It works around corners and through thin doors/walls, allowing you to anticipate what's ahead and prepare. Its also AMAZING for revealing invisible creatures, especially if you have an ability like Glitterdust (I know, psion's don't get Glitterdust, but maybe a UMD/UPD transparency use of a wand).

IMO, its totally worth it. Psion/Warblade is a particularly good combo. Make sure you take EK: Scism so you can rock out your Warblade side while still manifesting powers.

Tyndmyr
2010-07-16, 03:34 PM
Spell to power strikes me as a longer term advantage. How long do you forsee the game going?

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-16, 03:34 PM
Depending on your stats and feat availability, you may also consider grabbing EX: Control Body, letting your psicrystal direct your carnage while you blow through your PP.

ForumFerret
2010-07-16, 03:51 PM
Spell to power strikes me as a longer term advantage. How long do you forsee the game going?

That's really up to the rest of the players; potentially, up through 20, but I don't see that happening really. It's going to be loosely based on World's Largest Dungeon (no spoilers, please :) ) but we won't be trapped inside it.


Depending on your stats and feat availability, you may also consider grabbing EX: Control Body, letting your psicrystal direct your carnage while you blow through your PP.

I'm going to be pretty tight on feats - Mindsight would grab my extra feat at 5th, I'm thinking about Exotic:Jovar for my primary melee; I'll eat up another with Psicrystal Containment + Psionic Meditiation, etc. I'll try to fit it in, though - I'd love to be adding INT to attacks and damage :D

I didn't realize Mindbender had a psionic adaptation - interesting. I'll check that out.


Mindsight is pretty good. It works around corners and through thin doors/walls, allowing you to anticipate what's ahead and prepare. Its also AMAZING for revealing invisible creatures, especially if you have an ability like Glitterdust (I know, psion's don't get Glitterdust, but maybe a UMD/UPD transparency use of a wand).

IMO, its totally worth it. Psion/Warblade is a particularly good combo. Make sure you take EK: Scism so you can rock out your Warblade side while still manifesting powers. Isn't Schism already on the Telepath/Psion list? (so it is, just checked - did you mean if I went Erudite?)

Snake-Aes
2010-07-16, 03:54 PM
Isn't Schism already on the Telepath/Psion list? (so it is, just checked - did you mean if I went Erudite?)

Everyone takes Schism. It's like knowledge devotion for duskblades and natural spell for druids.
Everyone

EvilJoe15
2010-07-16, 03:57 PM
Astral Construct is the same, even my Psicrystal takes Astral Construct.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-16, 03:59 PM
I'm going to be pretty tight on feats - Mindsight would grab my extra feat at 5th, I'm thinking about Exotic:Jovar for my primary melee; I'll eat up another with Psicrystal Containment + Psionic Meditiation, etc. I'll try to fit it in, though - I'd love to be adding INT to attacks and damage :D

I would skip on the Jovar. Most of your damage should be coming from Str/Int/Expansion shenanigans.

If you don't mind delaying your maneuvers, I would recommend starting with Swashbuckler 3/Fighter (or just about anything else, really, to delay your stances) 1 before jumping into Warblade. Doing this along with Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm) will allow you to dump Str entirely, assuming you don't mind the loss of power attack. It is feat intensive to get Control Body online effectively, but it is another option to consider.


I didn't realize Mindbender had a psionic adaptation - interesting. I'll check that out.

It's not explicit, but there is a blurb before the crunch of the class that says "Do X, Y, and Z, and bam!Psionics!"


Isn't Schism already on the Telepath/Psion list? (so it is, just checked - did you mean if I went Erudite?)

Schism is a Telepath only power. You can grab it as a Euridite, but it means finding someone with it and waiting until you can manifest 7th level powers. Control Body is only 4th level, so you can get it sooner, assuming you have the feats to just let your Psicrystal puppet you while you use your powers. This of course would prevent you from using most maneuvers, though.

ForumFerret
2010-07-16, 04:12 PM
Everyone takes Schism. It's like knowledge devotion for duskblades and natural spell for druids.
Everyone

Ah yes. Well, it was on my agenda either way, but I appreciate the reminder :-D


Astral Construct is the same, even my Psicrystal takes Astral Construct.

Does your Psycrystal also take Skin of the Construct? That looked pretty fun (mine will end up taking Psionic Meditation and Metamorphic Transfer :-D)


I would skip on the Jovar. Most of your damage should be coming from Str/Int/Expansion shenanigans.

If you don't mind delaying your maneuvers, I would recommend starting with Swashbuckler 3/Fighter (or just about anything else, really, to delay your stances) 1 before jumping into Warblade. Doing this along with Control Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/controlBody.htm) will allow you to dump Str entirely, assuming you don't mind the loss of power attack. It is feat intensive to get Control Body online effectively, but it is another option to consider.



It's not explicit, but there is a blurb before the crunch of the class that says "Do X, Y, and Z, and bam!Psionics!"



Schism is a Telepath only power. You can grab it as a Euridite, but it means finding someone with it and waiting until you can manifest 7th level powers. Control Body is only 4th level, so you can get it sooner, assuming you have the feats to just let your Psicrystal puppet you while you use your powers. This of course would prevent you from using most maneuvers, though.

Part of the reason I'm going for dice-based damage on the Melee side of things is because I ended up with truly pathetic physical stats for this character. I'm hoping to rely on Diamond Mind and Iron Heart concentration-based strikes for melee damage, using my Psion/Erudite powers for long-duration buffs, control, and utility. Ruby Nightmare Blade for 2D6+weapon damage + 2D6 Punishing Stance ought to keep my damage effective in melee when it happens (particularly if I can shoehorn Imp. Crit:Jovar in there) as the extra damage from Insightful Strike and Greater Insightful Strike will multiply there. With Psionic Weapon and a Deep Crystal Jovar, I can toss off 7d6 melee damage at 3rd level if I sprint for the necessary feats.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-16, 04:28 PM
In that case, what are your stats? The Jovar adds a few d6s, but Psionic Weapon is rather limiting. If you want to roll a bunch of dice for damage, I'd look into a Cindy build instead.

ForumFerret
2010-07-16, 05:30 PM
In that case, what are your stats? The Jovar adds a few d6s, but Psionic Weapon is rather limiting. If you want to roll a bunch of dice for damage, I'd look into a Cindy build instead.

Cindy build?

Stats I generated were as follows:

STR:11
DEX:13
CON:14
INT:15
WIS:13
CHR:17

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-16, 05:43 PM
Cindy build?

Stats I generated were as follows:

STR:11
DEX:13
CON:14
INT:15
WIS:13
CHR:17

Cindy is a blaster wizard made by Emperor Tippy. I can't find the original link, but the basic idea is to dumb metamagic like crazy on one of the Orb spells from Spell Compendium. Here's the mailman guide, which is similar in execution. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

Honestly, unless you can switch your stats around to get the 17 in Int, you're better off with some form of Sorcerer casting.

ForumFerret
2010-07-16, 05:52 PM
Cindy is a blaster wizard made by Emperor Tippy. I can't find the original link, but the basic idea is to dumb metamagic like crazy on one of the Orb spells from Spell Compendium. Here's the mailman guide, which is similar in execution. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)

Honestly, unless you can switch your stats around to get the 17 in Int, you're better off with some form of Sorcerer casting.

I'm hoping I can switch the INT and CHA scores around, but no guarantee there. I'd prefer to use int-casting for synergy with the Warblade half. I suppose I could go Sorcerer though. Charm Person will put me into Mindbender/Mindsight at 5 anyway.

Thrice Dead Cat
2010-07-16, 05:55 PM
Well, the X Stat to Y Bonus thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) mentions that Cha is a lot easier to throw around places, but, with this being Gestalt, Int could work well, too. Personally, I would stick with Int-based casting, too, but if you can't switch them, then I'd jump into something that gives Cha a lot of love.