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View Full Version : Healing Hands and Brew Potion [3.5]



gomipile
2010-07-16, 10:57 PM
A healer(Miniatures Handbook) in my roleplaying group wants her Healing Hands class ability and Augment Healing feat to directly improve the amount healed by potions she brews.

The DM and I both feel that the potions should be no better than those brewed by a cleric with no feats, but we also both want to know what the RAW says about this.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Dusk Eclipse
2010-07-16, 11:02 PM
She is a healer is not that more potent healing potions would break the game.

Besides I think a player that is sinking feats and trying to improve the way she helps her teammates should be rewarded.

golentan
2010-07-16, 11:02 PM
I see no reason that couldn't work: Metamagic can apply to crafted items, and it's storing a spell as if the caster had cast it.

I see nothing in RAW either way at a rough glance, but the line allowing metamagic makes my gut say "Yes, she can!"

PId6
2010-07-16, 11:21 PM
When a healer casts a spell that cures hit point damage...
So no, by RAW Healing Hands does not apply to items she creates. Metamagic is specifically stated to work in item creation; Healing Hands has no such exception.

However, you really should toss the healer a bone. It's such a horrid class that it really needs any advantages it can get.

crazedloon
2010-07-16, 11:40 PM
however by raw the crafter of a potion makes any decision they would make during a normal crafting of the spell including the use of the healing hands ability....



When you create a potion, you make any choices that you would normally make when casting the spell. Whoever drinks the potion is the target of the spell.

PId6
2010-07-17, 12:39 AM
That line refers to making decisions such as what type of energy you choose for Resist Energy. It has nothing to do with Healing Hands, since that doesn't constitute a decision.

Dragonmuncher
2010-07-17, 02:10 AM
That line refers to making decisions such as what type of energy you choose for Resist Energy. It has nothing to do with Healing Hands, since that doesn't constitute a decision.

Hm... doesn't it, though?

A potion of cure light wounds is, essentially, the caster casting cure light wounds.

If the caster gets a bonus to casting cure light wounds spells, shouldn't it follow that their healing potions are slightly more effective?

It may not say it explicitly in RAW, but it makes sense to me.

Aroka
2010-07-17, 04:57 AM
Can't possibly see why you shouldn't allow this. A PC with a bad class burning XP for consumable items - a little boost isn't going to break anything.

ThunderCat
2010-07-17, 05:18 AM
There's nothing in RAW specifically saying it works, but come on, she's playing a tier 5 class focussed on supporting the rest of you, it's not unreasonable, and it wont break the game, to allow it.

Shpadoinkle
2010-07-17, 09:27 AM
Yeah... if she's playing a Healer straight out of thebook, with no modifications, she NEEDS some kind of boost, and this is a decent one. Healers suck.

KillianHawkeye
2010-07-17, 10:19 AM
Hmmm.....

The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect

I wonder what happens according to RAW if someone with Healing Hands drinks a healing potion. It seems they are considered the caster, so wouldn't Healing Hands apply?

AvatarZero
2010-07-17, 11:28 AM
You could rationalize it either way. I'm inclined to say "Yes, you can." in most situations, so my rationalization would be that you can't create a potion of a spell without casting the spell; if a Healer cast a healing spell to make a healing potion, the more powerful healing spell will make a more powerful potion.

Kobold-Bard
2010-07-17, 11:32 AM
I asked this in Simple Q&A.

Drinking a Potion means you are the caster of the spell involved in it (as previously quoted). Therefore if the Healer drinks a healing potion they may add Healing Hands because they're casting the spell. Everyone else is a no go (unless they have it too).

ryuteki
2010-07-17, 11:54 AM
By RAW, the DM decides whether an item is creatable, and determines all costs relevant to the creation of the item. Therefore, the DM can absolutely say NO to allowing the feat to work... and alternately, the DM can absolutely say YES. Given the attitudes expressed, I would think that the best compromise would be to allow the feats to work in exchange for an increased GP and XP cost, amount to be determined by the DM.

The conservative cost would be to raise the effective CL of the potion by one for each extra point that is healed by the healing hands, since it is creating the equivalent type of potion. This follows the same reasoning that prevents you from replacing Bracers of Armor with a permanent Mage Armor item. Thus, if she had a Cha+4 and was 5th level or higher, she could make a potion that cured up to 1d8+11 , much better than the normal max of 1d8+5, but it would cost 275gp and 22xp to create. There is a reason that cure potions are never found with increased caster level - for almost the same cost she could create a pair of CMW at 2d8+3 each, or 11 CLW at 1d8+1 each.

Given the feat requirement, the GM may wish to cut a break on the cost. I probably wouldn't. :)

Beorn080
2010-07-17, 12:16 PM
By RAW, the DM decides whether an item is creatable, and determines all costs relevant to the creation of the item. Therefore, the DM can absolutely say NO to allowing the feat to work... and alternately, the DM can absolutely say YES. Given the attitudes expressed, I would think that the best compromise would be to allow the feats to work in exchange for an increased GP and XP cost, amount to be determined by the DM.

The conservative cost would be to raise the effective CL of the potion by one for each extra point that is healed by the healing hands, since it is creating the equivalent type of potion. This follows the same reasoning that prevents you from replacing Bracers of Armor with a permanent Mage Armor item. Thus, if she had a Cha+4 and was 5th level or higher, she could make a potion that cured up to 1d8+11 , much better than the normal max of 1d8+5, but it would cost 275gp and 22xp to create. There is a reason that cure potions are never found with increased caster level - for almost the same cost she could create a pair of CMW at 2d8+3 each, or 11 CLW at 1d8+1 each.

Given the feat requirement, the GM may wish to cut a break on the cost. I probably wouldn't. :)

It's healing. If those 6 extra points makes a difference in combat, something is odd about the combat.

I can't say if it works or not by RAW, but I'd let it. Its just healing, and it costs the player.

FMArthur
2010-07-17, 02:19 PM
I would disallow it just to discourage the player from making a bad class even more difficult by crafting lots of potions to eat up GP and experience...

Fax Celestis
2010-07-17, 02:22 PM
RAW, no. RAI, maybe. RAMS, maybe.

Is it broken? Hell no.

Can the healer use some extra oomph? 99% of the time, yes. 1% of the time, you're Person_Man using some craaaaazy shenanigans and making Healer into a beast.