I'm writing a novel- read, enjoy, and/or critique

[Platinum_Mongoose]

(Is this the right forum for this?)

Hey, Playgrounders. That "I Write Like" thread got me thinking. There's probably a big pool of talent and judges thereof right in front of me on this very forum willing to give some constructive critique. I invite you to read the first chapter of a young adults adventure/mystery novel I'm working on in my spare time.

You can find it here, though the formatting might be a little off: http://platinum-mongoose.deviantart.com/art/Chapter-1-The-Autumn-Tree-161207473

(Shameless plug: feel free to poke around my DeviantArt page in general, too. I've got some random Games Workshop stuff up there, plus some more snippets of writing.)

Thanks so much!

Edit: A few minor tweaks have been made to the text since that posting, but nothing substantial. I'll update it soon, though.

[Brewdude]

First bit of advice, having not even read a word, is to finish a story, any story. That's what takes you from wannabe writer to unpublished writer.

[Comet]

Pop by the Arts and Craft (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27) subforum. You'll get your helpful advice there, for sure!

(I'd recommend the Playground Writers' Workshop, but that thing seems to have died. Oh well)

[Makensha]

I started writing a very detailed critique, but I didn't like it, so I'll give you something a bit simple.

It was a good beginning. There are some hints at oddities and mystery, and I get the feeling of a coming of age story. Here are some points I feel are worth mentioning.

-The beginning commentary about summer could probably be moved to the second chapter for a more exciting opening. You could also put it in later during some of the descriptive bits.
-Try to be a little more descriptive on important objects. For instance, I had no idea how to visualize the stream and bank until she jumps it and hangs on by the ledge. How high is the ledge? How large is the stream?
-It took me a moment to notice the stream of conscious style.
-You really don't need to mention her parents and their occupations until they actually show up as characters.
-The events surrounding the kick ball incident aren't very clear and you might want to mention why Ty punched Kyle.
-You probably should separate Kestrel's inner thoughts from the stream of events, possibly using italics.
-Try to make what's going on in general more clear, especially the first third.
-Trying to write a book without a planned ending is dangerous. Stephen King is the most infamous victim of this habit. Tread carefully.

It needs work, but definitely could shine with enough effort.

[Platinum_Mongoose]

1. The beginning commentary about summer could probably be moved to the second chapter for a more exciting opening. You could also put it in later during some of the descriptive bits.
2. Try to be a little more descriptive on important objects. For instance, I had no idea how to visualize the stream and bank until she jumps it and hangs on by the ledge. How high is the ledge? How large is the stream?
3. It took me a moment to notice the stream of conscious style.
4. You really don't need to mention her parents and their occupations until they actually show up as characters.
5. The events surrounding the kick ball incident aren't very clear and you might want to mention why Ty punched Kyle.
6. You probably should separate Kestrel's inner thoughts from the stream of events, possibly using italics.
7. Try to make what's going on in general more clear, especially the first third.
8. Trying to write a book without a planned ending is dangerous. Stephen King is the most infamous victim of this habit. Tread carefully.


(Numbered for ease of response.) Thanks, everyone! So, I should preface this reply by saying that I'm not just leaping to my own defense here. Just trying to get a bit more info on the points your making.

1. Since summer vacation and the impending return to school is a major part of the story--more of Kes' own mental state than of the plot itself--I wanted to open with that. I also didn't want the first sentence to be "My name is..." because that sounded really hackneyed in my head.
2. Yes. I know, I have a problem with that. Pretty much have since grade school. I tend to let the reader to the heavy lifting. What isn't clear?
3. This is actually what I'm most worried about. Does it work? Is it fun to read? I was inspired to do it this way by Sandman Slim, a very gritty modern-day supernatural noir novel by Richard Kadrey. The effect in it was that of a constant film-noir-style voiceover across all of the narration.
4. Excellent point.
5. Ok, I can expand on that, I suppose. I thought it was clear, but what do I know? :smalltongue:
6. 90% of the narration is her inner thoughts, so that would leave almost all of the book in italics or dialogue. This goes back to points 2 and 3, though.
7. Yeah, I'll go back over it with a fine-toothed comb. What, in particular, is muddled? (Feel free to pull quotes from the text.)
8. Aha! I've gotcha there! I so totally do have an ending planned. And it's awesome! ...Okay, so, that last part will be open to debate. We'll see what changes by the time I get there. I haven't committed an outline to paper yet, but it's in my head pretty clearly.

Anyway, thanks again. This has been quite helpful.

[RufusCorvus]

I suggest giving serious thought to revising your choice of words. At best, the character doesn't sound at all like a twelve/thirteen year old. At worst, it's purple prose. The second line in particular is bothersome: The clock on the wall is a cruel mockery of temporal physics, spinning along at its regular pace while I'm watching it and speeding up as soon as I shift my focus.

Skimming over the rest of it, I'm also seeing words like demarcation, trinket, and illumination. (Also, a misuse of "queue." Chiefly, a "queue" is a line, like in a grocery checkout. The word you want is "cue.") Now, those words are fine in and of themselves, but they sound odd coming from the mouth of a twelve year old girl. It'd be fine if you were writing in third person, but when writing first person, you have to be especially careful that every word you use is something the character would actually say.

A final word of advice: in English, if there are two words meaning the same thing and one originates from Latin and the other from the Germanic languages (illumination v. light), go with the Germanic one. It's immediately clear to native speakers what you mean, while with words originating in Latin, we have to do a split-second translation. It may seem negligible, but it really makes for much faster reading. (Do keep in mind this is a general rule of thumb that depends entirely on context. There are times when "illumination" is completely appropriate to use.)

Best of luck to you. I know, from first hand experience, that writing can be very tough. To paraphrase one of my creative writing professors: "Writing is some of the hardest work you can do short of physical labor."

[Obrysii]

I suggest giving serious thought to revising your choice of words. At best, the character doesn't sound at all like a twelve/thirteen year old.

I just came here to say the same thing.

Unless the kid is a child genius, you have to - well, dumb it down.

Plus, who is the target audience for this story? If it's for young adult, you'll need to tone it down for that; if it's for adults, well - why should I read a story from the perspective of an eighth grader?

When does this take place? Her mom is mentioned to having come to the states after WW2, so does this take place in the 60s? 70s?

[Platinum_Mongoose]

I hear you. The reasoning behind the narration is threefold, with varying degrees of meta-ness:
1. It's how I write. It's how writing is fun for me. It's why I prefer it to speaking out loud.
2. Yes, it's targeted to young adults. My personal philosophy is not to dumb down anything for a younger audience.
3. I hate sounding like I'm pulling stuff out of thin air, but there is an in-character reason for it, believe it or not. She's well-read for a 12-year-old, and probably on her way to advanced classes later in school. But more importantly, Kestrel has an eidetic memory. It's something I've always wanted to give a character, since it's a great sort of low-power superpower. She doesn't really know about it, though. She's too young to have figured it out fully, or at least she hasn't really worked out the part where it's not normal. So that's where her vocabulary comes from. She's reading at a college level already, and remembers the prose. The fact that she assumes others can do that, however, is going to get her (and her friends) in trouble later.

Also, Obrysii, it was her grandparents who came to the States after WWII. Sorry that's not more clear, but that paragraph is on my list to get 100% revised, so... yeah.

Rufus, thanks for pointing out the queue/cue thing. I'm a grammar Nazi, and I haaaaate getting stuff like that wrong.

[Lord Seth]

I'd suggest finishing the novel first, THEN showing chapters from it.

As a note, a novel has to be interesting in the first three chapters, because in my understanding, that's how much agents usually ask you for first if they think your story concept is decent (if they still like what they see then they'll ask you for the whole thing).

[Makensha]

1. Since summer vacation and the impending return to school is a major part of the story--more of Kes' own mental state than of the plot itself--I wanted to open with that. I also didn't want the first sentence to be "My name is..." because that sounded really hackneyed in my head.
2. Yes. I know, I have a problem with that. Pretty much have since grade school. I tend to let the reader to the heavy lifting. What isn't clear?
3. This is actually what I'm most worried about. Does it work? Is it fun to read? I was inspired to do it this way by Sandman Slim, a very gritty modern-day supernatural noir novel by Richard Kadrey. The effect in it was that of a constant film-noir-style voiceover across all of the narration.
4. Excellent point.
5. Ok, I can expand on that, I suppose. I thought it was clear, but what do I know? :smalltongue:
6. 90% of the narration is her inner thoughts, so that would leave almost all of the book in italics or dialogue. This goes back to points 2 and 3, though.
7. Yeah, I'll go back over it with a fine-toothed comb. What, in particular, is muddled? (Feel free to pull quotes from the text.)
8. Aha! I've gotcha there! I so totally do have an ending planned. And it's awesome! ...Okay, so, that last part will be open to debate. We'll see what changes by the time I get there. I haven't committed an outline to paper yet, but it's in my head pretty clearly.

Anyway, thanks again. This has been quite helpful.

1. You probably shouldn't say "My name is..." at all. If you're in stream of concious, it breaks the fourth wall.
2. Where she is when she's running from Ty and the stream.
3. Stream of conscious is dangerous. It is very easy to screw up because of descriptions and understanding events. The reader has to spend a few pages getting used to it, so make sure to write as clearly about what's going on as you can.
5. All I know about the event is that they were playing kickball, then Ty punched Kyle. I might have missed something, but there seems to be a missing event there.
6. Scratch that. I'm not sure if I still agree with myself on that point.
7. When you were describing the chase, you spent a lot of details on the areas she passed through, but I didn't realize that she was actually running through them until she arrives at the woods.
8. Platinum Mongoose says on Deviant comments section, "I have a rough idea of where I'm going with all of this, but it'll be a while before it gets coherent"
Makensha replies, "You might want to write a paragraph describing the events of each chapter before running into the middle of it."

Sorry if 8 sounds like I'm a jerk, but I really didn't know how to phrase that I had seen your comment on DA. And the style is appropriate for a thread about writing.

Also, something I forgot to mention. Your monologue on the end of summer reminds me of To Kill A Mocking Bird.

[Math_Mage]

Note: Ty punched Kyle because Kyle called him "Hog Ty". Probably Ty overreacting to a bit of kickball tough talk.

[Zom B]

Pop by the Arts and Craft (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27) subforum. You'll get your helpful advice there, for sure!

Except it doesn't look like people are very interested in stories over there. The one in my sig has yet to be reviewed or possibly even read. If you want to read it and PM me, that would be awesome, btw. (It's not just one chapter, the entire story is called "Chapter One: A Sticky Situation.")

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Hey, that was pretty good. Great fun. Sorta Douglas Adams on LSD, or... something. I dunno. Pretty much just the right length, too. It'd be impossible to keep that up for a longer format.

[Zom B]

Pretty much just the right length, too. It'd be impossible to keep that up for a longer format.

That sounds like a challenge.

As for the rest, yeah. It was kind of an exercise in seeing how well I could write a story that both had an incoherent plot but was followable. Even reading it now for the billionth time, it still cracks me up because I try to envision what is happening and it somehow puts me in tears even though I wrote it.

I'm working on a sequel, by the way.

[Obrysii]

I hear you. The reasoning behind the narration is threefold, with varying degrees of meta-ness:

Here's something I've been taught in numerous creative fiction classes.

If you have to explain something, it isn't clear enough. You won't be there to explain to the publishers, you won't be there to explain to the reader.

Either it has to be unclear to be part of the effect (like A Clockwork Orange) or it has to have indexes (Lord of the Rings, Dune) or simply it has to be clear.