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View Full Version : [3.5-4E] Templates Lost In Translation (long-ish)



Fenrazer
2010-07-17, 02:39 AM
I have a few characters that I am looking to make a translation from 2E 3.5 to 4E. I am not looking for an exact translations, as I am taking formerly epic level characters and recreating them on the 4E system @ level 15. My plans are to take them to thirty, and I wasn't sure what to do about them. I moved to TX and the players are no longer present save for one, so I don't particularly care if they are more powerful than the rest of the group, as they will be background characters for the majority of this campaign.

Glambrug:
Race: Mountain Dwarf (2E) with Stonemeld and all that jazz. There may have been a 3.5 version in Races of Stone, but I didn't have that book, and they were fairly simple.
Class: Fighter/Cleric/. More fighter than Cleric.
Additional Template: Paragon. (Yeah, we were THAT Epic).
Favored Attack Style: Holy/Ice/Hammer&Shield

Az'Ta'Rael:
Race: Rockseer Elf (2E) also with many stone related racial powers.
Class: Fighter/Sorcerer. MUCH more Fighter than Sorcerer, like 2 Lvls tops.
Additional Template: Vampire
Weapon of choice: Sword of Kas
Favored Attack Style: Sword of Kas, or Ranged attacks (Homebrewed Ranged attacks already covered). Magic was solely for utility purposes.

Sabrena.
Race: Rockseer Elf (2E)
Class: Fighter/Mage/Arcane Archer...really balanced between classes. I'm torn here.
Weapon of Choice: Greater Sunblade (Been a while but I'm pretty sure that was a homebrew weapon)
Favored Attack Style: Mix of Melee and assault magic with basic Fighter enhancement buffs on.

Ingat
Race: Rockseer Elf (2E)
Class: Paladin of Pelor through and through.
Weapon of Choice: Serrated Great sword.
Additional Template: Lich...Sorta. He went Blackguard, and beyond that even, and when he died, he was bound to a Lich Periapt by Nerul. Eventually there were severe trials of repentance, blah blah blah... but I wasn't sure what to do with the Lich template so it just stays. Obviously he makes other Pelor folks extraordinarily nervous.

And now for the most used phrase I ever had as a DM, "What do you do?"

Any basic builds or whatever I may be able to use, will these guys just not translate? Should I maybe take this to Homebrew section?

Kurald Galain
2010-07-17, 03:37 AM
Any basic builds or whatever I may be able to use, will these guys just not translate? Should I maybe take this to Homebrew section?
That depends on what exact abilities you want them to have. For instance, the way you describe Glambrug is easy to duplicate with a hammer-and-shield wielding fighter, cleric multiclass feat for the free heal 1/day, and using lasting frost for the "ice" part. He'll probably end up having very different abilities than he used to have, though.

There is a vampiric heritage feat from Dragon magazine. There's also a class that's basically an arcane archer, which is the seeker. And there's an archlich epic destiny.

Fenrazer
2010-07-17, 04:06 AM
That depends on what exact abilities you want them to have. For instance, the way you describe Glambrug is easy to duplicate with a hammer-and-shield wielding fighter, cleric multiclass feat for the free heal 1/day, and using lasting frost for the "ice" part. He'll probably end up having very different abilities than he used to have, though.

There is a vampiric heritage feat from Dragon magazine. There's also a class that's basically an arcane archer, which is the seeker. And there's an archlich epic destiny.

Specific abilities are really arbitrary at this point for any one of them. I was just looking at getting the same characters on a different system and what you said has given me some serious foundation. The only thing I can think of for the stone races is to turn them all into Genasai, which would be ridiculous, but at least there is foundations. Much appreciated on the Seekers, whom I had completely spaced on, and the Archlich.

NecroRebel
2010-07-17, 12:12 PM
Glambrug:
Race: Mountain Dwarf (2E) with Stonemeld and all that jazz. There may have been a 3.5 version in Races of Stone, but I didn't have that book, and they were fairly simple.
Class: Fighter/Cleric/. More fighter than Cleric.
Additional Template: Paragon. (Yeah, we were THAT Epic).
Favored Attack Style: Holy/Ice/Hammer&Shield

I'd probably go with a Cleric for this one. STR-based clerics using hammers are probably the closest thing to the traditional fighter/cleric, and with the less intensive multiclassing in 4E, that's probably the best you'd be able to get. The Warpriest paragon path basically gives you a somewhat-limited form of the Fighter's marking feature at level 16, so that works out, too.

That, or be a Fighter|Cleric hybrid character. With Strength being a primary attribute for both classes, and Wisdom as primary or secondary, it's certainly not bad. Take Hybrid Talent for the Fighter's Combat Superiority feature, again go with Warpriest for your PP, and you can be quite Defender-y and sticky. This might actually be a better idea.

Both options lose out on the Ice damage naturally, but picking up an Icy Weapon to change damage for your melee attacks to Cold at-will will make up or that.


Az'Ta'Rael:
Race: Rockseer Elf (2E) also with many stone related racial powers.
Class: Fighter/Sorcerer. MUCH more Fighter than Sorcerer, like 2 Lvls tops.
Additional Template: Vampire
Weapon of choice: Sword of Kas
Favored Attack Style: Sword of Kas, or Ranged attacks (Homebrewed Ranged attacks already covered). Magic was solely for utility purposes.

The problem with this one is that there's no real way to be a Vampire anymore. The Sword of Kas also isn't quite easy to get ahold of. However, you could pick up a Necrotic weapon (AV1 pg73) to change half of your damage to Necrotic damage fairly easily.

Anyway, I'd suggest a Fighter multiclassed to some "spellcasting" class for this one. The most utility for you would probably be Paladin, Swordmage, Warlord, or Cleric. Take the utility power multiclass feat, maybe the encounter power multiclass feat to pick up some ranged attack power, and call it close enough.


Sabrena.
Race: Rockseer Elf (2E)
Class: Fighter/Mage/Arcane Archer...really balanced between classes. I'm torn here.
Weapon of Choice: Greater Sunblade (Been a while but I'm pretty sure that was a homebrew weapon)
Favored Attack Style: Mix of Melee and assault magic with basic Fighter enhancement buffs on.

You're a meleer with Arcane Archer levels? That's a bit odd...

Anyway, Assault Swordmage (FRPG) seems the obvious choice here. Melee and assault magic? Check. Fighter-enhancing buffs? Check. Balanced between Fighter and Mage types? Check! You can even pick up a Sunblade (AV1 pg79) to make your attacks (and even spells, if you're a Swordmage) all shiny.


Ingat
Race: Rockseer Elf (2E)
Class: Paladin of Pelor through and through.
Weapon of Choice: Serrated Great sword.
Additional Template: Lich...Sorta. He went Blackguard, and beyond that even, and when he died, he was bound to a Lich Periapt by Nerul. Eventually there were severe trials of repentance, blah blah blah... but I wasn't sure what to do with the Lich template so it just stays. Obviously he makes other Pelor folks extraordinarily nervous.

Paladin of Pelor is easy enough... Paladin. Of Pelor.

The trouble here is the Lich template. You could look into Dhampyrs (Dragon #371) for a half-vampire race, or Revenents (Dragon #376) for a truly undead race. Otherwise, most of the undead-making or immortal-type stuff is part of an Epic Destiny.

Fenrazer
2010-07-17, 01:10 PM
I'd probably go with a Cleric for this one. STR-based clerics using hammers are probably the closest thing to the traditional fighter/cleric, and with the less intensive multiclassing in 4E, that's probably the best you'd be able to get. The Warpriest paragon path basically gives you a somewhat-limited form of the Fighter's marking feature at level 16, so that works out, too.

That, or be a Fighter|Cleric hybrid character. With Strength being a primary attribute for both classes, and Wisdom as primary or secondary, it's certainly not bad. Take Hybrid Talent for the Fighter's Combat Superiority feature, again go with Warpriest for your PP, and you can be quite Defender-y and sticky. This might actually be a better idea.

Both options lose out on the Ice damage naturally, but picking up an Icy Weapon to change damage for your melee attacks to Cold at-will will make up or that.

Got it. Glammy seems fairly simple when you guys talk about it. I was pretty tuckered out when I posted it, but yeah his ice attacks were all from a Freezing Burst weapon. Gracias! Also, can you think of anything for the Paragon template, or should I just eschew this?


The problem with this one is that there's no real way to be a Vampire anymore. The Sword of Kas also isn't quite easy to get ahold of. However, you could pick up a Necrotic weapon (AV1 pg73) to change half of your damage to Necrotic damage fairly easily.

Anyway, I'd suggest a Fighter multiclassed to some "spellcasting" class for this one. The most utility for you would probably be Paladin, Swordmage, Warlord, or Cleric. Take the utility power multiclass feat, maybe the encounter power multiclass feat to pick up some ranged attack power, and call it close enough.

Thanks! I appreciate the weapon references.


You're a meleer with Arcane Archer levels? That's a bit odd...

Anyway, Assault Swordmage (FRPG) seems the obvious choice here. Melee and assault magic? Check. Fighter-enhancing buffs? Check. Balanced between Fighter and Mage types? Check! You can even pick up a Sunblade (AV1 pg79) to make your attacks (and even spells, if you're a Swordmage) all shiny.

Yeah, again with the me being tired. I meant to put mix of martial attacks instead of Melee attacks. Sabrena was very well rounded. Sort of a Jack of All, Master of None kind of thing going on.


Paladin of Pelor is easy enough... Paladin. Of Pelor.

Yeah, many people look at me strange when I say that. I have a house rule. Since they are holy and follow a cause, I have them decide a path immediately for their cause to follow, so I know which way they are going.


The trouble here is the Lich template. You could look into Dhampyrs (Dragon #371) for a half-vampire race, or Revenents (Dragon #376) for a truly undead race. Otherwise, most of the undead-making or immortal-type stuff is part of an Epic Destiny.

Thanks! I'll probably just go with Revenents since he never did anything according to his race and its a quasi new world. Ill just find a way to make it fit or some junk. Peculiar match, I know, but man it was a helluvan eight year story.

NecroRebel
2010-07-17, 05:10 PM
Got it. Glammy seems fairly simple when you guys talk about it. I was pretty tuckered out when I posted it, but yeah his ice attacks were all from a Freezing Burst weapon. Gracias! Also, can you think of anything for the Paragon template, or should I just eschew this?

Um. I'm not quite sure what the Paragon template does exactly. It just gives various boosts to stats, right? If so, that's not something that's easily done. You could manage it with a higher-than-average point-buy in character creation, but that would imply that everyone else in the party has such a thing as well. The only other way of emulating that I can think of would be with an Epic Destiny; Demigod would give +2 to 2 stats, so that would kind of work for "you're one of the best in your profession!" sort of an idea.

Ultimately, the problem is that level 11+ characters are already supposed to be the sort of person who only comes around once in a century, and are already "paragons" of their race and class, so figuring something different out to emulate that is somewhat redundant.


Yeah, again with the me being tired. I meant to put mix of martial attacks instead of Melee attacks. Sabrena was very well rounded. Sort of a Jack of All, Master of None kind of thing going on.

This is... Well, the problem here is that 4E does not reward generalization. You've pretty much got to specialize to be effective; it's intended that the rest of your party will have their specializations in the fields you don't, so DCs and such are difficult-to-impossible to hit if you're not specialized.

With the right hybrid classes, you might be able to manage an arcane melee/ranged combatant, but it's tricky. Maybe a pure-classed, reflavored Bard? They have a decent number of melee and ranged attacks with a magical basis. Another option is a pure-classed Rogue wielding daggers; lots of Rogue powers have "melee or ranged weapon" on their range line, and I know from experience that it's possible to build a Rogue whose every attack is usable at melee and range equally well, since I've built such a thing. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=104695)

That particular character usually snuck around the edges of a battle, throwing knives in under stealth for combat advantage, until he was out of powers that let him regain hiding after attacking, then moved in to flank with one of the Defenders once the mop-up started. I had intended to take the encounter power Hide in Plain Sight at level 16; with the paragon path level 12 encounter utility and that, I could've used 2 minor actions for a permanent invisibility effect every battle, and then just tossed daggers from there. Combined with the Rogue's large number of trained skills, decent all-around stats, and my feat choices, he was pretty good at several things.


Thanks! I'll probably just go with Revenents since he never did anything according to his race and its a quasi new world. Ill just find a way to make it fit or some junk. Peculiar match, I know, but man it was a helluvan eight year story.

Yeah, it's going to be tricky matching up a 3.x Lich character to a non-epic 4E character regardless of what you do, so whatever is "close enough" for you is what you should go with.

Reluctance
2010-07-17, 05:34 PM
Question: Are these characters meant as PCs or NPCs? Because if they're meant to be background characters, the NPC creation rules are different - and a lot more freeform - than the PC creation rules.

Heck. If these characters are meant to stick in the background and never challenge the PCs directly, the 4e design philosophy is that statting them out would be a waste of time. So keep the fluff, let these characters do what they will, and don't waste your time crunching numbers that you'll never actually get to use.

Fenrazer
2010-07-17, 08:12 PM
Understood. Thats a very convenient way to go about it. I think I may do that for now, but these are also characters that I have grown fond of, and in the event I hold a session while back home with my gaming circle, I may still get them completely built.

Thajocoth
2010-07-17, 08:21 PM
For the guy that uses ice... There's a particular setup in 4e that you can do. There are two feats... One that causes Cold attacks to cause enemies to be vulnerable 5 to cold and one that lets you have combat advantage against anyone vulnerable to cold. There's a weapon enchantment called "Frost Weapon" that lets all your damage be cold (turn it off as a free action when fighting something immune or resistant to cold). There are gloves called Gloves of Ice that add cold damage to your cold attacks. You can get a Dragonshard of Merciless Cold to add extra cold damage to your cold attacks with your weapon.

A Crossbow TurretRanger in my party has this combination. That's how I know about it.

You might want to add this combo to your build. That way, you've got the ice covered, AND it's helping you, and you can worry about the other features of your character for the rest of your build.

mobdrazhar
2010-07-18, 06:14 PM
The problem with this one is that there's no real way to be a Vampire anymore.

Actually this is not quite right... there is a Vampiric Heritage feat in Dragon Annual