Help! Depressed mother!!!

[Runestar]

I am not sure if I should be posting this here in a gaming forum, but seeing how helpful and supportive the general GiTP family is, I hope you can all offer me advice, or at least lend a listening ear.

My mother has been suffering from very bad depression since I was 10+ (dad had an affair outside, though they stayed together because of me). I have been doing my best to care for her all these years. I won't say I am an expert or done a stellar job, but I can say with a clear conscience that I have tried my best. I generally just try to give in and humour her, especially when she goes into one of her ranting moods (where she just blames and scolds everyone around her for her plight).

However, it seems she was slowly but surely recovering. Until about 6 months ago, she had an argument with my grandmother which seemed to affect her really bad. I do not know where or who she got the idea from, but she then went to the casino "as a form of de-stressing", so she claims.

In the beginning, I didn't think much of it, but then she started going more frequently and wagering larger bets. For a while, I went along with her, thinking to slowly wean her off this habit, but every time I tried to broach the topic, she would turn around and accuse me of being unfillial, amongst other stuff I do not wish to reproduce here, suffice to say it does hurt me deeply on an emotional level. I try to comfort myself by saying that is her depression talking, not her.

She has admitted more or less that she sticks to gambling as a means of escaping from her "pointless" life. She is too sick to work, and most employers seem quite leery of hiring someone with depression. She has few friends, and her best friends just died last year from cancer.

My savings are almost busted from feeding her gambling addiction, plus I have an outstanding bank loan from all this. Yesterday, she tried to get another $200 from me, I finally had enough as that was the last of a few hundred dollars left in my account, she went hysterical, I said a few things I probably shouldn't have, one thing led to another, and she seems to have had a minor relapse today.

I guess I screwed up big time. :smalleek:

[thubby]

get help. psychologists, teams of them.

and not that i like pointing fingers at a time like this, but you shouldn't have given her any money to begin with, assuming you had a choice in the matter.

depression takes different forms, is she constantly in gambling addict mode, or is she always sorry/forgotten the next day?

[Runestar]

depression takes different forms, is she constantly in gambling addict mode, or is she always sorry/forgotten the next day?

She visits the casino every 2-3 days. When she comes back, she is literally in a buzz and has an extremely good mood, but the feeling soon wears off by the next day and all too soon, she is itching to go again. It breaks my heart when she starts grovelling before me for more money, so initially, I tried convincing myself that it would be her last time. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20. :(

When confronted, she just wails and claims that it is the only form of entertainment left to her. I tried finding alternatives, but she comes up with all sorts of reasons why they are unsuitable. Or she will say that she brought me up, and it is only right that I pay her back. So it is only "proper" that I give her money to go gambling.

Now, she wants to calculate all the money she has spent on me. Isn't that tantamount to saying she wants to sever all ties with me? :smalleek:

[Asta Kask]

You need to get her professional help, stat. This is beyond your control.

[arguskos]

You need to get her professional help, stat. This is beyond your control.
This. So very much this. Something like this cannot be controlled by one person, Runestar. If you love her, and I'm certain that you do, you need to make the hard choice and get her professional help ASAP.

[Runestar]

Well, so she seemed more calm just now, so we sat down and had a heart-to-heart talk (something which we haven't had the time to do in ages). I guess I am partly to blame for having neglected her due to work these 1+ year. I don't know about tomorrow, but for these few hours at least, I seem to have gotten my mother back. :smalltongue:

She kept insisting she had a plan where she would slowly cut back on her gambling to a reasonable sum. I have my reservations, but I am not saying anything at the moment (lest I agitate her further). Will have to play by ear if she tries to raise the issue in the next few days. Probably start searching for professional help.

I dunno, she seems okay now, and it kinda breaks my heart to see that she apparently has had a relapse of sorts (she is still very fidgety and tense and can't seem to get to sleep) because of me, but I just can't bear to bring up the issue of external help yet (she has had very bad experiences with being hospitalised and staying with her mother).

Thanks everyone for your support. I am not sure if I am making the right decision, but I will play by ear and see how it goes these few days. I guess I also learnt (or rather, remembered) a painful lesson that for however strong she looks on the outside, she is still quite fragile inside and I need to constantly be mindful of my own attitude. :smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

The thing is, you can't be therapist to your own relatives (or close friends). Too many things cloud the process. This is something every therapist learns. You either can't make the tough decisions that need to be made, or you grasp for them too readily. So please, for your mother and for yourself - get professional help. It may be hard, but it's the best thing in the long run.

[KenderWizard]

I dunno, she seems okay now, and it kinda breaks my heart to see that she apparently has had a relapse of sorts (she is still very fidgety and tense and can't seem to get to sleep) because of me, but I just can't bear to bring up the issue of external help yet (she has had very bad experiences with being hospitalised and staying with her mother).


It's not your fault. From what you've said, she's had a really hard time and has lost people who were close to her. Depression is a strange and scary illness that can cause good people to act in ways they themselves will be shocked by when they look back at it, but it's nobody's fault, least of all the family members who stick with the person and try to help them.

It sounds to me like you've been so patient and so loving to her, and if she's had a relapse, that's a fact of life with illnesses. You don't need to blame yourself.

From a practical point of view, if she didn't like being hospitalised or staying somewhere else, you might be able to find a way to have a professional work with her at home, build a relationship so it's more like a well-trained friend coming to see her than someone alien in a white coat. Does she get on with her doctor? When we had a depression in our home, luckily my father was good friends with his doctor, and trusted him enough to let him help. These days my father is happier than I've ever known him, with a wide circle of friends and charity work that he loves. :smallsmile:

[ApeofLight]

I myself and several people in my family deal with medical depression. We need help, your mother needs help. I can relate somewhat to what she's going through because I did something very similar but with just video games and not gambling (thank goodness for my upbringing). It wasn't until I started to get help that I could start pulling myself away from doing nothing and actually start doing things again. That's what your mom needs right now, help. Just my two bits.

[mucat]

It sounds like you're playing way too many roles here. You're her family member, her primary social connection, and her therapist...a person can really only fill one of those roles at a time. Trying to fill two of them is a big mistake, and trying to do all three is a disaster. Don't feel bad that you haven't been able to save her; it is an impossible job.

She needs social connections other than her family, and she really needs a good therapist. You can't force her to do either of these things, but by not raising the subject you're doing no favors to her or to yourself. Even if she seems "better" now, it's just reinforcing the idea that she can count on you for everything.

Whether or not she is willing to see a professional, you need to see one too; this situation has got to be almost as hard on you as it is on her. Find someone who knows a lot about codependency issues, and about caring for troubled family members in ways that actually help, rather than deepening the problem. You'll be glad you did, and I hope things will be better for her as well.

[Starfols]

Another depressed person here. It sounds like your finances should come before sparing her feelings on the matter. At some point, she won't be able to spend any more, and a confrontation will inevitably happen. So, get help while you still can. :smallsmile:

[Superglucose]

She visits the casino every 2-3 days. When she comes back, she is literally in a buzz and has an extremely good mood, but the feeling soon wears off by the next day and all too soon, she is itching to go again. It breaks my heart when she starts grovelling before me for more money, so initially, I tried convincing myself that it would be her last time. But yeah, hindsight is 20/20. :(
*ahem*

THIS IS AN ADDICTION

Promise to give her some money if she successfully completes rehab. Cut her off completely until then.



When confronted, she just wails and claims that it is the only form of entertainment left to her. I tried finding alternatives, but she comes up with all sorts of reasons why they are unsuitable. Or she will say that she brought me up, and it is only right that I pay her back. So it is only "proper" that I give her money to go gambling.
Replace "gambling" with "heroine." It's not a form of entertainment, because entertainment never consumes your life and spits you out the other side.



Now, she wants to calculate all the money she has spent on me. Isn't that tantamount to saying she wants to sever all ties with me? :smalleek:
That's her making a guilt trip. If she doesn't seek help it is best for you to sever ties with her. She needs help for the gambling addiction.

Hell I bet you a significant portion of the depression she's experiencing will evaporate when she gets her addiction taken care of. Psychological addictions like this have a huge effect on your mental health... she's got her "buzz" immediately after gaming, and then she crashes and you start to see the "depression." She justifies it as "Well my life is pointless/meaningless/onlythingworthlivingfor" which is another sign of deep addiction. The addiction should be step 1.

Here's a link to Gambler's Anonymous. (http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/qna.html) Gaming is fine if it's just a 5 dollar office pool, or maybe one day a year at a casino. When it's this closely tied to her mental well-being, it is as much an addiction as any drug could possibly ever be. She jonses for a fix. She needs help. Get her into one of these programs, even if it means trashing your relationship with her.

[LCR]

Get her to see a psychiatrist. Freeze all her funds. Take any threats she might make serious and call 911, if needed. There is no way you can handle this on your own.

Edit: Don't think that "taking care" of the addiction will "fix" her. It sounds like she might be bipolar, meaning that she experiences both manic and depressive episodes. Her gambling might be a symptom of a manic episode. Self help groups alone will NOT suffice for this.

[Doctor Acula]

Alot of people have been saying that you need to send her to a psychologist or a therapist, but that simply cant help her if she isn't willing to be there. The best suggestion that I have seen is cutting her off until she goes to gamblers anonymous, I second this suggestion.

Further if she actually does count up all that she spends on you (my dad did the same thing to me) I know that personally it came up to about $250,000.

[Runestar]

Further if she actually does count up all that she spends on you (my dad did the same thing to me) I know that personally it came up to about $250,000.

Well, for whatever it is worth, there is no way I can raise that sort of money, since I have no assets to my name. Though it should be less, since my dad paid for my university education.

That said, she tried the same thing today. I just did my best to maintain my cool (I don't know why, I am not as patient as I was 10 years ago, but maybe I didn't have as many responsibilities as I do now) and explain my points coolly and calmly (even though she was too agitated to take it in).

Whatever I couldn't or didn't want to rebutt, I just reiterated my stand, for what was probably 2 hours of ranting, some guilt-tripping, blaming the whole world for her plight and stuff. But her tirade finally petered off (whatever the reason) and she stomped off to her room to sleep (xeroxat makes her kinda drowsy).

Well, that's another day down. I expect tomorrow to be worse, since she will probably wake up in an even more foul mood, but (thanks to this forum for convincing me that I am doing the right thing, even though it may seem like an utterly unfillial move now), I have decided I will have to put one foot down.

I can't say I won't ever lose my temper, but I will try not to lose it for as long as I can (and find other healthy avenues of releasing it). On a plus side, I recently re-discovered jogging as a great way of destressing. The feeling you get after a good hard run, as though all your worries are evaporating together with your sweat....is simply too sublime to put into words. :smallbiggrin:

I guess that is one flaw in the asian model of filial piety. You are expected to always give in to your elders regardless of how unreasonable the demands are. It took me 6 months to finally open my eyes. Let's hope it is not too late. :smallsmile:

[rakkoon]

You have my sympathies...that's a serious problem.
Cutting her off and professional help seem like the friendliest solutions.
It's better than just going away.
But make sure that you don't spend your life in debt because she has a problem, Runestar.
You have a life too and it's just beginning...

[Runestar]

You have a life too and it's just beginning...

Hit another bullet right on the head...

Believe me when I say that is a dilemma I constantly grapple with every day...:smallconfused:

To what extent should I care for her at the expense of my own personal life? Granted, I am not all that bothered by still being single and unattached at my age with few outlets of leisure (since everything these days cost money) or so I like to believe, but I can't help but wonder at times what my future might hold, and if this is the way I want to spend my life.

Well, like I said, one day at a time. :smalltongue:

And a thanks to everything listening to me gripe, from the bottom of my heart. This may not be some medical forum capable of dispensing professional advice, but I still feel much better after letting it all out.:smallsmile:

[Asta Kask]

I can't say I won't ever lose my temper, but I will try not to lose it for as long as I can (and find other healthy avenues of releasing it). On a plus side, I recently re-discovered jogging as a great way of destressing. The feeling you get after a good hard run, as though all your worries are evaporating together with your sweat....is simply too sublime to put into words. :smallbiggrin:

If you could get your mother to do some exercise too, that would probably help. Plenty of studies show that exercise help with depression.


And a thanks to everything listening to me gripe, from the bottom of my heart. This may not be some medical forum capable of dispensing professional advice, but I still feel much better after letting it all out.:smallsmile:

Feel free. My check will be in the mail.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Now, she wants to calculate all the money she has spent on me. Isn't that tantamount to saying she wants to sever all ties with me?

The term for this sort of behaviour (at least where I come from) is "emotional blackmail". It is very nasty and hard (and wearing) to defend against. It is a common controlling tactic.

It is also very difficult to stop yourself from getting angry when it happens. Keep calm, do not respond in kind.

Remember - "respect for your parents" is not the same as "automatic obedience". You can still refuse her requests for money while still being respectful.

[Doctor Acula]

And a thanks to everything listening to me gripe, from the bottom of my heart. This may not be some medical forum capable of dispensing professional advice, but I still feel much better after letting it all out.:smallsmile:

I may not be a doctor but I play one in DnD :smallsmile:

[Serpentine]

There's a lot of stuff you need to deal with an let go of. For now, I'll concentrate on this:
I guess I am partly to blame for having neglected her due to work these 1+ year.No, absolutely not. You are her child, not the other way round. It isn't your job to look after her. It certainly isn't your job to raise her. You absolutely should not feel any guilt over this, and in fact your guilt - and consistent backing-down (which you appear to have stopped, good for you) is almost certainly bad for her.
I'd prefer the both of you seeing a psychologist, but in the meantime Gamblers Anonymous is a good start, and if they only way you can get her there is to bribe her, so be it. Make sure you keep in contact with them, too, to get advice on how to handle her. You might consider seeing a therapist yourself, for the same reason (as well as for your own sake - you know apparently doing that regularly makes people happier than a sudden large pay-out?).

[Dragosai]

I think everyone has given some great advice, but I second that "forcing" her to see a therapist is not a great idea, they can help but the person being helped has to at least be at the point where they know they need help. I am not sure how old you are Runestar, but you have your life and helping someone be it family or friend is always the right thing to do but my advice is to always remember one thing; You are the child and she is the parent. Or to put it another way she has been an adult with responsibilities a lot longer then you have. Bad things happen in life, I for one believe that if they didn't then we would never know the good things when they come along. Dwelling on the bad is never good or helpful, and I firmly believe that letting it go and moving on is the best medicine ever. I guess I am big fan of "hey get over it already" which we all know is much easier said than done, but ultimately really that is the only course anyone has. It’s the difference between living life and sitting around waiting to die. I don't wake up every morning singing zipadeedoodah, but having been severely depressed myself for many years I do make a choice to realize that when all is said and done life is good.

[Brewdude]

Better Idea. Go to gamblers anon yourself. It's not just for gamblers, it's for relatives of gamblers.

Also, be on the lookout for theft, now that you are putting the foot down. Gambling addiction is every bit as nasty as drug addiction.

The key difference between doing something in a healthy manner vs doing it in an unhealthy manner is whether you cease taking care of your responsibilities in order to do what you are obsessing about.

[Runestar]

Again, thanks to everyone here for the support you have shown.

Latest update - she has been going to the casino (well actually, it is more of a small gaming club with slot machines) much less frequently, and mostly just to chat with friends (I have managed to successfully resist all her demands/pleadings for more money). The advice to be gentle, polite but firm really works. Initially, she was really emotional, but I think she finally came to see how desperate our finances really are.

I think part of the problem was not what I said, but more of how I said it. As a patient suffering from depression, she really can't be agitated, so in hindsight, I really should have shown more patience, rather than lose my temper so readily.

Funny thing happened a few days ago while she was there. This guy kept winning at one of the slot machines. Within 10 minutes, management came down, shut down the machine and "requested" for the guy to leave (but not before he had won $4000+. That's when she realised that the machines are likely rigged all along in favour of the house (which is precisely what I have been telling her all along). That seemed to harden her resolve not to gamble there anymore, as she is finally seeing just how big a bottomless pit they really are.

Her mood has definitely improved dramatically over the past week, and we are on much better terms. I am still treading carefully here, since I dare not be sure if this is a sustained thing yet, but for the moment, all seems well again. I got my paycheck for the month, so things aren't as tight.

So yeah, thanks again everyone. :smallbiggrin::smallsmile:

[KenderWizard]

That sounds like some very positive steps! You've done really well to be able to help her through this, and get her to start to understand how gambling won't help her in the long run. I hope things continue to improve, for both your sakes! :smallsmile:

[Aroka]

Latest update - she has been going to the casino (well actually, it is more of a small gaming club with slot machines) much less frequently, and mostly just to chat with friends (I have managed to successfully resist all her demands/pleadings for more money). The advice to be gentle, polite but firm really works. Initially, she was really emotional, but I think she finally came to see how desperate our finances really are.

This is great if true, but it's probably not. People lie. Addicts lie more. What you describe don't even sound like very good lies. "Oh, I'm just chatting with my friends!"

The main thing in combating any addiction (which are behaviors, not diseases) is modifying your circumstances so as to remove temptations. Not going to the slot machines is a pretty basic thing. You don't go to the bar if you're trying to stop drinking.

Do not give your mother any more money. You can listen to her if you think you can stay firm, but if you think you can't, don't even listen to her. Tell her that she needs help, and that you'll be glad to go with her to get some. Her problem is her problem, and you do not have the power to change it. She does, but she may need professional help.

Don't go for any 12-step program; they're religious, uncritical, unscientific, unprofessional crap. Your mother is depressed - she needs a psychiatrist, therapy, and possibly medication (to supplement therapy; medication alone is never an answer). She specifically needs cognitive therapy - good cognitive therapy aims at modifying both behaviors and thought-patterns and is good for addiction problems. It's possible she might also benefit from long-term psychodynamic therapy to get at the roots of her depression, but cognitive therapy addresses the more urgent issues.

Without appropriate therapy and addressing the root causes, one addictive behavior will be replaced by another.

The alternative is to hope. Maybe you'll get lucky. I wouldn't count on it.

[Runestar]

This is great if true, but it's probably not. People lie. Addicts lie more. What you describe don't even sound like very good lies. "Oh, I'm just chatting with my friends!"

Well, it is a fact that she is going there without any money in her pocket (beyond the few dollars she gets everyday for her daily expenses). After accounting for transport, that leaves her with maybe $5-10? If this can somehow last her for so many hours, I guess I am okay with that...

I am also fairly sure she isn't borrowing from any loansharks or doing anything illegal to supplement her income (she is unfit for work). I am at the stage where 'This is all you get for the day, how you spend it is up to you', plus I am leery about going to extremes for fear of triggering another relapse.

So yeah, maybe it is not the extent some of you were advocating, but I think I may have found a suitable compromise. For now at least. :smallsmile:

[Hardcore]

I was told by MY psychologist that we need realise our parents have their own lives separate from us. It really is THEIR responsibility to take care of themselves and their lives. We can't do that for them.

That insight helped me a bit...

[Aroka]

I was told by MY psychologist that we need realise our parents have their own lives separate from us. It really is THEIR responsibility to take care of themselves and their lives. We can't do that for them.

That insight helped me a bit...

This is true of basically every adult person, both on an ethical and a practical level. Support is great, but the responsibility for ourselves lies with each of us.


Well, it is a fact that she is going there without any money in her pocket (beyond the few dollars she gets everyday for her daily expenses). After accounting for transport, that leaves her with maybe $5-10? If this can somehow last her for so many hours, I guess I am okay with that...

I am also fairly sure she isn't borrowing from any loansharks or doing anything illegal to supplement her income (she is unfit for work). I am at the stage where 'This is all you get for the day, how you spend it is up to you', plus I am leery about going to extremes for fear of triggering another relapse.

You supporting her and worrying about relapses is not as effective as therapy and medication for her depression would be. Has she ever seen a doctor about her depression?

And how can you know what she does when you're not around? It's great for you if you can trust her, but addicts will, as a rule, break your trust.

Things may work out if you just wait, but being proactive is always a better idea (both statistically and in principle).

[Runestar]

You supporting her and worrying about relapses is not as effective as therapy and medication for her depression would be. Has she ever seen a doctor about her depression?

Yes, she is taking medication for depression and high blood pressure. Been in and out of hospitals a few times in the best, generally bad experiences, being cooped up with similar patients and all. Group therapy was a joke, with a fight breaking out between 2 patients in the 1st session, and her refusing to attend subsequent ones out of fear for her own personal safety.

I don't have the money to afford a good therapist either, so I will just have to make do with more TLC (or at least my version of it). :smalltongue:


And how can you know what she does when you're not around? It's great for you if you can trust her, but addicts will, as a rule, break your trust.

Well, I don't trust that she won't play, but rather, that she will play within her limits (basically whatever little cash she has left at the end of the few days). I have been able to successfully resist all her calls for more money these few weeks, plus her requests are becoming less incessant and her tone much less caustic.

It is not quite the perfect outcome yet, but as of the moment, it is one I am fairly satisfied with. :smallsmile: