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Deathslayer7
2010-07-17, 02:43 PM
Okay.

So im planning on doing a DnD campaign with my IRL life friends. Well we have a really bad optimizer as one of them, and always likes doing one trick ponies.

As if that wasn't bad enough he helped his gf (who plays with us as well) with her character build.

His build is this:

Ranger 1/Monk 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the forest 1/Deepwarden 2/ Bear Warrior 1/ Warshaper 2

So he adds his con twice to his AC. And can make a lot of natural attacks dealing pretty decent damage against any opponent.

The good thing is he has a dex and cha of 1. So is there any ways i could deal with that?

Secondly,

the other character will be an evangelist who is using diplomacy. As i already know that the normal set is stupid, i changed it to this.

roll a 1d20. -10 if its a full round action, -20 if it is a standard action.

There would also be modifiers based on the attitude of the target, and the situation. If you are surronded by archers, wounded and hurt, there is going to be a penalty.

But that still doesnt help. at level 11 she will have a diplomacy check of 50 as a full round action.

So my other thoughts were that maybe add class level as a bonus against it. And as a last resort if it is critical to the campaign, just outright say no. But i want to stay away from that as much as possible.

At level 5 she'll have a diplomacy of 25 and at level 6 she'll have 36.

so thoughts on any other way to handle this?

Aroka
2010-07-17, 02:48 PM
1 point of Dex/Cha damage/drain. Done.

And with Diplomancy, remember: you still have to have something to offer. A bunch of hardened bandits won't stop killing you just because you appeal to their conscience (unless you're going for that TTGL feel).

Really, though, you should just tell your players to stop looking up these builds online and thinking they're actually for use at the table. If they won't show you that much courtesy, why play with them?

Prodan
2010-07-17, 03:02 PM
The good thing is he has a dex and cha of 1. So is there any ways i could deal with that?


How is that even possible?

bobspldbckwrds
2010-07-17, 03:17 PM
mindless undead don't care how charming you are.

Kythorian
2010-07-17, 03:19 PM
Yeah, just damage their dex or cha and they are out of the battle. Easy enough.

For the diplomacy...diplomacy can easily ruin any game. Following RAW, someone with good diplomacy(like your evangelist) can convert any enemy to a friend, even on a roll of 1. The entire skill is deeply flawed as it is presented.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html) is a homebrew alternative system for doing it which is...better...though someone who really abuses the system to get really high diplomacy can still break that too. Ultimately, it is just up to the DM to throw modifiers(big ones) to the difficulty to prevent people from abusing it. While a good diplomat should be able to relatively easily get minor favors from people who might have normally been indifferent to them, getting huge, life endangering favors should be extremely difficult even for someone with huge diplomacy(and basically impossible otherwise), and I always houseruled that it was just impossible to make someone who was trying to kill you into someone who helped you in just five seconds of talking, evangalist or not. The BEST an evangalist could do is make someone decide to stop attacking you and leave you alone in a battle situation.

Up to you though. As long as you are aware that if you leave the system as it is under RAW, your player WILL break your campaign by just getting every person they meet to become their slave, making the entire thing pointless.

EDIT: and although it might not work on mindless undead, it will on the person who controls them, giving you effective control of both the necromancer and the undead. Also, if they never face sentient undead, the party can just throw a 'hide from undead' on, and ignore them.

kamikasei
2010-07-17, 03:21 PM
Tell them no. Just because he writes up a sheet doesn't mean he gets to play that character. The DM should be involved in character creation, and I don't just mean checking people's math.

The other player sounds less problematic, but simply explaining that you're not comfortable dealing with a diplomacy-focused PC because of how shaky the mechanics are in that area should suffice (assuming the players are at all reasonable). Ask her to think of a focus which doesn't either autosucceed and invalidate the encounter or completely fail to do anything.

Prodan
2010-07-17, 03:28 PM
Yeah, just damage their dex or cha and they are out of the battle. Easy enough.


Ray of Exhaustion also works iirc. Penalties.

Volthawk
2010-07-17, 04:02 PM
Ego Whip. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm) Even if he passes the save, he still takes the minimum 1 damage.

Deathslayer7
2010-07-17, 05:41 PM
How is that even possible?

i did a roll 3d6 for stats and he got an actually three and put into into dex then took the dragonborn. xD

he also put the 5 he rolled into charisma. and has a -4 modifier to that too.

But i did give him some point to supplicate his horrible rolls. He rolled like a 14 pt buy. Gave him 15 point to play with. He really wanted that 18.

Deathslayer7
2010-07-17, 05:43 PM
Tell them no. Just because he writes up a sheet doesn't mean he gets to play that character. The DM should be involved in character creation, and I don't just mean checking people's math.

The other player sounds less problematic, but simply explaining that you're not comfortable dealing with a diplomacy-focused PC because of how shaky the mechanics are in that area should suffice (assuming the players are at all reasonable). Ask her to think of a focus which doesn't either autosucceed and invalidate the encounter or completely fail to do anything.

I was part of it actually. I like his backstory and fluff. he's jsut a really big min/maxer.

and i forgot about multiquote xD again

kamikasei
2010-07-17, 05:49 PM
I was part of it actually. I like his backstory and fluff. he's jsut a really big min/maxer.

Tell him he needs to tone it down then. Having a 1 in any stat is simply not a playable character.

Incidentally, how high is his con? Because if he's already taking a -5 penalty to AC from his low dex, it doesn't seem to me that his "add con to AC twice" ability is actually doing all that much for him.

\/ Oh okay, he's not as hilariously terrible at min-maxing as I thought then.

Prodan
2010-07-17, 05:51 PM
Deepwarden replaces the Dex bonus to AC with the Con bonus.

KillianHawkeye
2010-07-17, 06:17 PM
But i did give him some point to supplicate his horrible rolls. He rolled like a 14 pt buy. Gave him 15 point to play with. He really wanted that 18.

You should have just let him reroll instead. Then he wouldn't have ridiculously low scores that make no sense.

Greenish
2010-07-17, 06:21 PM
You should have just let him reroll instead. Then he wouldn't have ridiculously low scores that make no sense.Or use pointbuy to begin with.

kamikasei
2010-07-17, 06:30 PM
You should have just let him reroll instead. Then he wouldn't have ridiculously low scores that make no sense.

This is an excellent point that I should have made myself. It would probably have been supported even by the default DMG rules, too.

Deathslayer7
2010-07-17, 10:24 PM
his current mod is +7 for con. but i belive at level 6 or such he will have an ac in the thirties.

While not terribly overpowered, it is kind of annoying.

And you guys misunderstand me. I used a system of point buy and rolling.

i had all players roll 3d6 and then gave them point buy equivalent to a 29 point buy.

so he did choose to go 1's in dex and cha. i did not force him too. I believe i even gave him 5 extra points to help supplement the 5 and 3 he rolled.

Morph Bark
2010-07-18, 05:16 AM
i did a roll 3d6 for stats and he got an actually three and put into into dex then took the dragonborn. xD

he also put the 5 he rolled into charisma. and has a -4 modifier to that too.

But i did give him some point to supplicate his horrible rolls. He rolled like a 14 pt buy. Gave him 15 point to play with. He really wanted that 18.

Lemme guess: Dragonborn Mongrelfolk?

Also, it's dangerous outside, take this Diplomacy (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html).

Psyx
2010-07-18, 05:34 AM
"so thoughts on any other way to handle this?"

The word 'No'.

Limit players to two base classes and don't allow them to 'dip' prestige classes: Insist that they take at least 5 levels of a prestige class before they can take another one. That way it's a blanket ruling that hits everyone, and it doesn't look like a player is being 'unfairly' singled out.

Failing that -if he's a jerk about it- just tailor a few encounters to highlight how poor the characters are: Some stat drain, or fights with deaf/mindless undead foes who don't care how charming you are. I'm also concerned that he's made the girlfriend a list of numbers to play instead of a character. Hard to get attached if someone just hands you a pile of uber and says 'off you go'.

Deathslayer7
2010-07-18, 11:25 AM
Lemme guess: Dragonborn Mongrelfolk?

Also, it's dangerous outside, take this Diplomacy (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html).

by that ruleset, the evangelist could break that too so it doesnt help. trust me i already read over it


"so thoughts on any other way to handle this?"

The word 'No'.

Limit players to two base classes and don't allow them to 'dip' prestige classes: Insist that they take at least 5 levels of a prestige class before they can take another one. That way it's a blanket ruling that hits everyone, and it doesn't look like a player is being 'unfairly' singled out.

Failing that -if he's a jerk about it- just tailor a few encounters to highlight how poor the characters are: Some stat drain, or fights with deaf/mindless undead foes who don't care how charming you are. I'm also concerned that he's made the girlfriend a list of numbers to play instead of a character. Hard to get attached if someone just hands you a pile of uber and says 'off you go'.

well thats a different problem in itself. We (meaning myself and another person) were laughing at the fact that he helped her and she got mad at us and thought we were making fun of her concept. So now i dont even know if she is going to go with that.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2010-07-18, 11:40 AM
If I recal somewhere there is a rule that the GM has to approve any stats lower than 4. . .

Also. . .

With a DEX of 1 this character lacks the coordination to stand and swing a punch at the same time. . . I dont even know if they're capable of walking. . . Babies have a higher dex than this and they cant walk. We don't give babies pointy objects because they might stab themselves in the eye. . .

I actually started thinking about this and even called amother GM I know and asked what they would rule on a 1 dexterity. . . his answer was that the character would have to be a paraplegic with severe parkinsons or something. . .

this character cannot succesfully walk, talk, hold anything, or even move without aid. . .

AN OOZE has a dex of 1. . . this person is playing an OOZE with no OOZE benefits and because he has a skeleton he cant even sludge across the ground like an ooze and fling himself at things, he just lays there. . .

Morph Bark
2010-07-18, 11:58 AM
by that ruleset, the evangelist could break that too so it doesnt help. trust me i already read over it

There will always be a way to break something, but it's better if there is only one way than a hundred. Plus, at least with that system the DC can be upped more easily through extra HD, more Wisdom, and bigger groups (and the +10/-10 threshold can be changed to up to +20/-20).

If you can't make up any way to prevent game breakage through system changes, then either disallow certain stuff or have them have a go at it. The only option besides that is to not play, and what's the fun in that?

Jeffanth
2010-07-18, 02:20 PM
a dex of 1 means he is barely able to move...one point of dex damage leaves him paralyzed.

awa
2010-07-18, 04:18 PM
the problem here seems to me that a stat this low is just not a playable character. With that charisma every person he meets is going to turn hostile.
I think you would be better off telling your player not to play a character like that it's to lopsided to function. If he insists on playing a character less charismatic and less agile then the least charismatic and least agile human who ever lived he should have to deal with it. Point out that with a charisma that low he will offend every one around him whenever he does anything (think about the most anything person you have ever met or heard of, that person still cant have had a score lower then 3)

Yorrin
2010-07-18, 04:34 PM
For the 1Dex fool- ray of clumsiness from the spell compendium. It's a first level spell, so toss a Wizard/Sorcerer into every encounter who exclusively casts this spell at him. He'll get the idea eventually. When he complains point out that you've only optimized your encounters as much as he's "optimized" his character.

As for Diplomacy- you cant diplomance creatures with animal intelligence, oozes, undead, or most constructs. In social situations- just learn when to say No. Of course if it's not plot relevant/abusive feel free to say "yes" a lot too. Getting a shop keeper to toss in an extra potion of cure light wounds isn't going to break the game. But no matter how much the shop keeper likes you- he's not going to give you half off on the +5 Vorpal Rapier.