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View Full Version : Optimizing Improvised Weapons [3.5]



Starfols
2010-07-17, 07:20 PM
Well, sort of. I want to use improvised weapons (from drunken master), but I have no idea what build I could use to make it even halfway effective. I'm thinking some kind of melee guy (because of the drunken master's other abilities), but a sneaky-skill monkey build could work too.

Prodan
2010-07-17, 07:27 PM
Human Monk2/Knight3/Enough ToB to get Thicket of Blades/Drunken Master4/Master of the Nine 5

Agent_0042
2010-07-17, 08:15 PM
If you do go ToB, see if your DM will let you swap out a discipline for Fool's Grip (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67879).

Starfols
2010-07-17, 09:12 PM
Human Monk2/Knight3/Enough ToB to get Thicket of Blades/Drunken Master4/Master of the Nine 5

:smallconfused:

I don't follow.

Math_Mage
2010-07-17, 09:28 PM
:smallconfused:

I don't follow.

Are you confused by the clipped references to the Tome of Battle? Thicket of Blades is a stance from ToB, so when he says "enough ToB to get Thicket of Blades", it means taking enough Warblade/Crusader/Swordsage levels to access that stance (and/or the Martial Stance/Martial Study feats from the same book).

Are you confused by how that helps the character master improvised weapons? Well, I'm not sure how to help you there.

Prodan
2010-07-17, 09:38 PM
Are you confused by how that helps the character master improvised weapons? Well, I'm not sure how to help you there.

Hundred foot ladders.

Starfols
2010-07-17, 10:15 PM
Hundred foot ladders.

Kay, I understand that, and the thicket of blades thing, but why knight? Is it just for the knights challenge, or am I missing something? What exactly does Mo9 get me? :smallconfused:

Arbitrarity
2010-07-17, 10:18 PM
Knight gets you an aura of difficult terrain in your threatened area (Bulwark of Defense), which is potentially enormous. It improves your stickiness with Thicket of Blades.

Master of Nine gives you absolutely insane Crusader Maneuvers, with a huge number of readied and available maneuvers, and many maneuvers known from a variety of schools. It also lets you use another stance with Thicket of Blades for a few rounds a day.

Darrin
2010-07-17, 11:35 PM
Well, sort of. I want to use improvised weapons (from drunken master), but I have no idea what build I could use to make it even halfway effective. I'm thinking some kind of melee guy (because of the drunken master's other abilities), but a sneaky-skill monkey build could work too.

Ugh... Drunken Master is a trap. First, by RAW it doesn't reduce the -4 penalty for using improvised weapons (it implies it does, and many people assume it does, but I can't see it in the text). Second, while it does allow you to use your unarmed strike damage instead of the typical improvised damage, it doesn't actually advance your unarmed strike damage. And third, the amount of extra damage it adds on top of that is meh... after 9 levels, you get an extra 1d12, which is only +6.5 damage on average.

While there are some work-arounds to fix some of these problems, it's very difficult to work them into a build without ditching most of your Drunken Master levels. (Superior Unarmed Strike can get you unarmed strike damage that scales up according to your character level, but you have to figure out a way to get flurry without taking monk levels... which is possible, but highly annoying).

A dip into Hulking Hurler can reduce the improvised penalty to -2, but you need a reliable way to stay large size. There's also a barbarian variant, the City Brawler in Dragon #349 that gets a similar ability. The only way to get rid of it entirely is a more obscure 3.0 PrC in Dragon #295, the Brawler, but it has some onerous requirements: BAB +7, Alertness, Combat Reflexes, and IUS. A two level dip does have some interesting possibilities, though... it lets you apply weapon-specific feats such as Weapon Focus/Specialization/Improved Crit to improvised weapons.