PDA

View Full Version : Feats that Scale? (3.5/PF)



Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 09:18 PM
Is there a list anywhere of Feats that scale with your level/HD?


Starting a list here:

- Ancestral Weapon (Book of Exalted Deeds)
- Craven (Champions of Ruin)
- Improved Familiar (Multiple sources)
- Improved Toughness (Multiple sources)
- Leadership (Core)
- Obtain Familiar (Complete Arcane)
- Power Attack (Core)
- Vow of Poverty (Book of Exalted Deeds)
- Wild Cohort (WoTC website)
- Undead Leadership (Libris Mortis)

PId6
2010-07-17, 09:21 PM
Not that I'm aware of.

If you want to get started though, here's a list of core feats that fully scale by level:


Power Attack
Leadership

Glimbur
2010-07-17, 09:25 PM
Improved Toughness scales with level as well. It's in... Complete Warrior?

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 09:28 PM
Starting a list, have those three and remembered Vow of Poverty.

Eurus
2010-07-17, 09:30 PM
Does Martial Study/Stance count?

The Dark Fiddler
2010-07-17, 09:34 PM
Wild Cohort scales your companion's power. That count?

Tar Palantir
2010-07-17, 09:35 PM
Craven is a big one.

Sc00by
2010-07-17, 09:42 PM
Does Martial Study/Stance count?

How does that scale? They give you a maneuver, you can't upgrade it later... As stated above craven!

I guess there is an arguement that the various multilclassing ones (daring outlaw springs to mind) do?

Edit: Obtain familiar is in Comp. Arcane (:smalleek:), don't forget Improved familiar (Comp. Warr (among others*) either ;)


*

Improved Familiar CW 100 This feat allows spellcasters to acquire a new familiar from a nonstandard list, but only when they could normally acquire a new familiar.
Improved Familiar FRCS 35 So long as you are able to acquire a new familiar, you may choose your new familiar from a nonstandard list.
Improved Familiar PG 39 Refer to the Improved Familiar feat description on page 200 of the Dungeon Master's Guide.
Improved Familiar Rac 165 See the discussion of the Improved Familiar feat in Chapter 1 of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Table A-5 shows additional improved familiars from this book that are available with this feat.
Improved Familiar SK 146 Refer to the Improved Familiar feat description in the Dungeon Master's Guide.
Improved Familiar TB 40 As long as you are able to acquire a new familiar, you may choose your new familiar from a nonstandard list.

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 09:42 PM
Does Martial Study/Stance count?

It doesn't scale, it's just level dependent.

Adding Craven and Wild Cohort (and will add Obtain Familiar once I remember where its from.)

Eurus
2010-07-17, 09:45 PM
How does that scale? They give you a maneuver, you can't upgrade it later... As stated above craven!

I guess there is an arguement that the various multilclassing ones (daring outlaw springs to mind) do?

Edit: Obtain familiar is core, don't forget Improved familiar either ;)

It doesn't scale once you have it, but its effects depend on the level that you get it. And some maneuvers are level-dependent, so...

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 09:48 PM
It doesn't scale once you have it, but its effects depend on the level that you get it. And some maneuvers are level-dependent, so...

The Maneuvers aren't the feat itself though, so I'm not adding it to my list; YMMV.

Sc00by
2010-07-17, 09:49 PM
It doesn't scale once you have it, but its effects depend on the level that you get it. And some maneuvers are level-dependent, so...

I see what you mean, but the OP wants feats that you take and then they give you more as you progress in levels. Which the 2 martial feats don't.

Edit: Multiclass Swordsage/rogue/assassin'ed :smallconfused:

Oh and I edited my previous post about 6 times. Sorry about that.

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 09:50 PM
I guess there is an arguement that the various multilclassing ones (daring outlaw springs to mind) do?


*

Eh....I'm not entirely sure with that myself.

It allows you to stack certain class levels for certain class features, but I don't know if I'd really call that scaling like the rest of the feats on the list so far.

Sc00by
2010-07-17, 09:52 PM
T'was just a thought... they sort of scale in so much you get more class features, but I see your point.

In another thought:
Ancestrial Relic? (BoED)

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 09:54 PM
T'was just a thought... they sort of scale in so much you get more class features, but I see your point.

In another thought:
Ancestrial Relic? (BoED)

Added to the list.

PId6
2010-07-17, 10:02 PM
Most of the domain feats from Complete Champion do.


Air Devotion
Animal Devotion
Chaos Devotion
Death Devotion
Destruction Devotion
Earth Devotion
Evil Devotion
Fire Devotion
Good Devotion
Healing Devotion
Knowledge Devotion
Law Devotion
Magic Devotion
Plant Devotion
Protection Devotion
Strength Devotion
Sun Devotion
Trickery Devotion
War Devotion
Water Devotion

Zaakar
2010-07-17, 10:19 PM
Would the bloodline feats that extend your spellist count?

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 10:19 PM
Most of the domain feats from Complete Champion do.


Air Devotion
Animal Devotion
Chaos Devotion
Death Devotion
Destruction Devotion
Earth Devotion
Evil Devotion
Fire Devotion
Good Devotion
Healing Devotion
Knowledge Devotion
Law Devotion
Magic Devotion
Plant Devotion
Protection Devotion
Strength Devotion
Sun Devotion
Trickery Devotion
War Devotion
Water Devotion


Knowledge Devotion doesn't scale. The Knowledge skill does scale, but that only changes the likelihood of the feat itself keying off high.

@Zakaar: Which feats?

EnnPeeCee
2010-07-17, 10:42 PM
Combat Expertise, goes along with Power Attack

Zaakar
2010-07-17, 10:46 PM
There are very many of them. Some examples:
Air Bloodline (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Air_Bloodline)
Draconic Bloodline (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Draconic_Bloodline)
Necromantic Bloodline (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Necromantic_Bloodline)
Plant Bloodline (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Plant_Bloodline)

Some are kinda weird :smallconfused:
They seem to be from the dragon books (above examples from #311 and #325) if you don't like to use that page as a source.

Edit:
The ones I could find:
air bloodline
anarchic bloodline
aquatic fey bloodline
axiomatic bloodline
celestial bloodline
draconic bloodline
earth bloodline
fey bloodline
fiendish bloodline
fire bloodline
illithid bloodline
necromantic bloodline
penumbra bloodline
plant bloodline
serpent bloodline
water bloodline

balistafreak
2010-07-17, 10:48 PM
Combat Expertise, goes along with Power Attack

Actually using Combat Expertise in combat is generally considered to be A Bad Idea, though. :smallannoyed:

It's still probably better than Improved Toughness, though, so I can't actually tell you to not offer it.

... on an unrelated note, what was that feat that let you regain your BAB every other turn when Combat Expertising? You'd Combat Expertise one turn, which would somehow "carry over" into the next turn, letting you make a full BAB attack. You'd then Combat Expertise again, etc.

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 10:50 PM
There are very many of them. Some examples:
Air Bloodline (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Air_Bloodline)
Draconic Bloodline (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Draconic_Bloodline)
Necromantic Bloodline (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Necromantic_Bloodline)
Plant Bloodline (http://www.realmshelps.org/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Plant_Bloodline)

Some are kinda weird :smallconfused:
They seem to be from the dragon books (above examples from #311 and #325) if you don't like to use that page as a source.

I'm not going to include them on the list since all they really do is give bonus spells and they kind of fall into the same category as Daring Outlaw and co. YMMV.

PId6
2010-07-17, 10:51 PM
Combat Expertise, goes along with Power Attack
By itself, it doesn't scale past 5th level. You need Improved Combat Expertise to do that (not that you'd want to).

Tyndmyr
2010-07-17, 10:53 PM
It's still probably better than Improved Toughness, though, so I can't actually tell you to not offer it.

Improved toughness isn't that bad...it's like having a hit die one step higher. It's not amazing, but it's one of the easiest options for a solid survivability boost, and unlike toughness, it at least retains some usability at higher levels.

Zeta Kai
2010-07-17, 10:54 PM
Improved Toughness scales with level as well. It's in... Complete Warrior?

IT is in Complete Warrior, Libris Mortis, & the Monster Manual III. It's basically the same in all three, it's better in almost every way from the normal version, it doesn't require the normal version as a prerequisite (you only need a base Fortitude save bonus of +2), & you should be able to take it again if you wanted to.

Greenish
2010-07-17, 10:57 PM
Knowledge Devotion doesn't scale.It scales with the knowledge skill. :smalltongue:

What about feats that grant you more spells known (such as Gatekeeper Initiate, for example)? They scale in the sense that as you get higher level spells, you get access to new spells from the feat.

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 11:00 PM
It scales with the knowledge skill. :smalltongue:

What about feats that grant you more spells known (such as Gatekeeper Initiate, for example)? They scale in the sense that as you get higher level spells, you get access to new spells from the feat.

And as I said, the feat doesn't scale, just the skill it keys off of.

And as I also said, I'm not including feats like those.

Greenish
2010-07-17, 11:23 PM
And as I said, the feat doesn't scale, just the skill it keys off of.The benefits from the feat increase with your knowledge skill. I'd say that's the same thing as scaling with the knowledge skill.

And as I also said, I'm not including feats like those.Ah, missed that.

[Edit]: Undead Leadership (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x).

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-17, 11:28 PM
The benefits from the feat increase with your knowledge skill. I'd say that's the same thing as scaling with the knowledge skill.
Ah, missed that.

[Edit]: Undead Leadership (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021031x).

But the feat itself doesn't scale.

And added.

Greenish
2010-07-17, 11:33 PM
But the feat itself doesn't scale.Much like how Power Attack doesn't scale: it gives the same benefit on level 1 as it does on level 20, which is that you can convert BAB to damage.

Of course, as your BAB improves, so does the benefit from the feat, much like how you benefit more from Knowledge Devotion as your knowledge skill increases.

Dacia Brabant
2010-07-17, 11:47 PM
What about the multiclassing feats like Swift Hunter, Tashalatora and Song of the White Raven that allow a class feature to continue progressing as you take levels in another specified class, would that count for this?

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-18, 12:01 AM
What about the multiclassing feats like Swift Hunter, Tashalatora and Song of the White Raven that allow a class feature to continue progressing as you take levels in another specified class, would that count for this?

We already covered those.

@Green:

Power Attack isn't the same at all. Its capabilities do scale alongside your level and Base attack bonus.

Knowledge Devotion on the other hand has set DCs. What it can do doesn't change as you level it just becomes easier to bring more out of it with less luck and circumstantial bonuses.

CockroachTeaParty
2010-07-18, 12:08 AM
Shape Soulmeld technically scales, since a soulmeld's essentia capacity is dependent on your level regardless of class. Of course, not having access to essentia renders this scaling largely useless unless focused upon heavily.

Gametime
2010-07-18, 12:18 AM
Knowledge Devotion on the other hand has set DCs. What it can do doesn't change as you level it just becomes easier to bring more out of it with less luck and circumstantial bonuses.

Two things.

First, if you have a bonus of less than +16 to Knowledge when you take the feat, it is impossible to hit the highest DC when you first acquire it. Leveling up unlocks that level of bonus. The feat has gotten better with your level.

Second, if you calculate the bonus provided by Knowledge Devotion as the average bonuses you'll receive from it, then the feat itself provides a greater benefit as your level - and Knowledge skills - increase.

It's your list, though. Exclude it if you want; it just seems an odd way to define "scaling."

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-18, 12:28 AM
It's your list, though. Exclude it if you want; it just seems an odd way to define "scaling."

No, it's not. Because the feat itself doesn't change when you can first take it at level 2 or by the time you hit level 20. Knowledge Devotion keeps the same static DCs and will only ever provide a +5 bonus.


@Cockroach: I'm not going to include Shape Soulmeld because I don't see how it's any different from Martial Study/Stance.

Eronai_Jantig
2010-07-18, 12:41 AM
If Power Attack stacks, I'll trow in Arcane Strike (Complete Warrior)

Dacia Brabant
2010-07-18, 12:48 AM
We already covered those.

Pardon, I missed that, though looking back it doesn't look like a consensus was reached.

I suppose if you're including Power Attack then Stone Power should be included as well, and one could make an argument for feats like Combat Brute and Shock Trooper that modify Power Attack.

Tanuki Tales
2010-07-18, 12:59 AM
Pardon, I missed that, though looking back it doesn't look like a consensus was reached.

I suppose if you're including Power Attack then Stone Power should be included as well, and one could make an argument for feats like Combat Brute and Shock Trooper that modify Power Attack.

Going on 2 a.m. so I'll look at Stone Power and Arcane Strike tomorrow.

Ashram
2010-07-18, 01:01 AM
Pathfinder's "Deadly Aim" (Power Attack for ranged weapons) and "Combat Expertise" scale on themselves with level.

Gametime
2010-07-18, 01:44 AM
No, it's not. Because the feat itself doesn't change when you can first take it at level 2 or by the time you hit level 20. Knowledge Devotion keeps the same static DCs and will only ever provide a +5 bonus.


Like I said, your list, your rules. You might want to consider editing the OP to specify that you don't just mean "gets better" when you ask for scaling feats, and are more specifically looking for feats that provide a numerical bonus directly linked to level and not to any other variables, because some of us didn't immediately catch on to the more precise requirements.

Eronai_Jantig
2010-07-18, 01:52 AM
To put Arcane strike simply, it gives you bonuses to attack and damage based on spell slots you sacrifice prior to your attack. +1 to attack and 1d4 to damage per spell level of the sacrificed spell/slot.