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View Full Version : [3.5] Dealing with weird DM-created monster: The Second Story



fortesama
2010-07-18, 12:37 AM
It's that time again. The last campaign ground to a sudden halt since the DM got really busy, so while we wait for him to finish whatever he's planning, we decided to try a new DM in the meantime. His concept was an overpowered game where he rushed us to epic levels (to ease players in in high level calculations) and all sorts of dirty tricks are actually required for survival at higher levels. Suffice to say, a ridiculous amount of homebrew stuff were thrown at us early on as well as monsters well beyond our level. At least they managed to put some serious damage on my StP Erudite 6/Beholder Mage 2/Cerebremancer 8/dunno what next character as well as our tanks, and a sizeable amount of our gear (stupid Morden's DJ). I had an epic spellcaster stick a tenacious magic feat on the PAO for good measure ala backstory. THEN, i saw this little guy with the DM's suspiciously visible out-in-the-open notes while searching for my sheet:

abomination template, spell immunity, power immunity, Morden's DJ at will (Su), dimensional anchor at will (Su), really high HP, really high caster level, really big, stacked both troll stuff and acid/fire immunity, really high dex and by extension touch ac (though it's flat footed-ac would have been sad were it not for improved uncanny dodge), blind-fight, True Seeing (EX for good measure), a salient divine ability to auto-roll 20 except on crit rolls, nonlethal damage immunity, though no persistent AMF/NPF or similar stuff for some reason.

Me and my friend wizard are the only full casters in the group. any suggestions on how to take this big lug down, and i'm kinda new to epics and this is my first time trying an arcane caster or psionics. i ran a DMM persist cleric earlier till he fried it by pure luck (damn you triple 20's on one attack roll).

Edit: Oh yeah, we're not into epics yet, though we're getting close really fast. And he was stingy with loots, for some reason, though the shops sold some rather broken stuff, which frequently get fried at higher levels

Fortuna
2010-07-18, 12:44 AM
The lack of persistant AMF is likely because it has useful Su abilities.

Yeah, this thing is stupid. Your solutions are either SR/PR: No spells and powers without saves or drowning, and even then it'll be really difficult. Since it auto-makes any saves, even drowning is only a temporary solution.

Chronos Flame
2010-07-18, 12:57 AM
I know it is considered an incredibly suboptimal route for power but if that is the only baddie you have to deal with (no cohorts and such) maybe you could just blast it. You have two full almost-epic casters. That means you can get a couple spells off at a time, so if save-or-dies wont work cuz of the auto 20s then maybe just hitting it with a jaw dropping amount of damage would work.

Then again this is coming from a guy who's favorite character is a blaster mage... but it seems fitting this time lol.

Acero
2010-07-18, 01:00 AM
run away. Tell the DM you know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em

Fortuna
2010-07-18, 01:00 AM
Actually, that might work. Use the Dark Chaos Shuffle to get as mailman-y as possible, saving a feat for Extraordinary Spell Aim to set up anti-magic fields. That could very well work...

Swordsage'd!

Acero
2010-07-18, 01:01 AM
I know it is considered an incredibly suboptimal route for power but if that is the only baddie you have to deal with (no cohorts and such) maybe you could just blast it. You have two full almost-epic casters. That means you can get a couple spells off at a time, so if save-or-dies wont work cuz of the auto 20s then maybe just hitting it with a jaw dropping amount of damage would work.

Then again this is coming from a guy who's favorite character is a blaster mage... but it seems fitting this time lol.

spell immunity

FantomFang
2010-07-18, 01:06 AM
spell immunity

Hey, as long as they're blasting spells that create something real, like those oh-so-beautiful orb spells. Spell Immunity is useless against spells that have no save, no sr. :smallbiggrin:

Chronos Flame
2010-07-18, 01:08 AM
spell immunity

A few orbs can do very nice damage. And at high levels a few can be tossed around in a round. Metamagic is the orb's best friend.

fortesama
2010-07-18, 01:09 AM
The lack of persistant AMF is likely because it has useful Su abilities.

Yeah, this thing is stupid. Your solutions are either SR/PR: No spells and powers without saves or drowning, and even then it'll be really difficult. Since it auto-makes any saves, even drowning is only a temporary solution.

Could you be more specific? I can tell you these things:

My friend wizard has the elven wizard substitution level and the collegiate wizard feat on top of that. I picked up scribe scroll so i could make spell scrolls so i could share my spells with him while i could copy spells off his spellbooks and add them to my powers known(i'm not sure if i needed scribe scroll, so I erred on the side of safety. worry not for i have psychic reformation). Thus we have a ridiculous amount of spells in our collection, and i have them both as spells and powers in my case. My psionics, however are lacking due to me relying solely on my level ups and there being no knowstones or psions with discipline powers around. This gives us quite a few options.

on a side note, any suggestions on what to take after i'm done with cerebremancer?

Fortuna
2010-07-18, 01:09 AM
Of course, there's always the option of abusing physics for fun and profit. Check out the thread over here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872670/Broken_Super_Symmetry_in_an_Advanced_Theoretic_Gen eral_Relativistic_Interpretation_of?pg=1): my favorite trick is True Creation to manufacture electrons. Delay it somehow (Dark Chaos Shuffle, maybe?) and get everyone the hell out of there. There's very little that would survive that.

fortesama
2010-07-18, 01:53 AM
Errr..., pardon me but what's the Dark Chaos Shuffle?

PapaNachos
2010-07-18, 02:01 AM
Unless I'm mistaken its a trick abusing two spells that lets you trade any feats for any other feats.

PId6
2010-07-18, 02:39 AM
Errr..., pardon me but what's the Dark Chaos Shuffle?
Two spells from Fiendish Codex I. Embrace the Dark Chaos lets you switch any feat you possess to an abyssal heritor feat. Shun the Dark Chaos lets you switch any abyssal heritor feat to any feat that you qualify for.

Thus, combined, you can use these to switch any feat to any other feat, including but not limited to switching 1st level feats to ones that can only be taken at higher level, switching class-limited feats (like fighter bonus feats) to any feats, switching specific feats (like Endurance and Track from ranger or weapon proficiencies from elf) to non-specific ones, and switching non-epic feats to epic ones (after you arrive at epic levels).

Kylarra
2010-07-18, 02:41 AM
DCS is slightly expensive 500xp a pop or more if you're getting some NPC to cast it, although if you're using it, obviously wealth is of little consequence.

Fortuna
2010-07-18, 04:29 AM
Now I think of it, you can skip the Shuffle. Just get the wizard True Creation, pick up a Greater Metamagic Rod of Delay and make sure you get everyone out beforehand (except the wizard, who greater teleports at the last second). If your DM won't let the Rod of Delay past, then use contingency instead.

Morph Bark
2010-07-18, 05:29 AM
Two spells from Fiendish Codex I. Embrace the Dark Chaos lets you switch any feat you possess to an abyssal heritor feat. Shun the Dark Chaos lets you switch any abyssal heritor feat to any feat that you qualify for.

Thus, combined, you can use these to switch any feat to any other feat, including but not limited to switching 1st level feats to ones that can only be taken at higher level, switching class-limited feats (like fighter bonus feats) to any feats, switching specific feats (like Endurance and Track from ranger or weapon proficiencies from elf) to non-specific ones, and switching non-epic feats to epic ones (after you arrive at epic levels).

Not to mention bonus feats from Vow of Poverty, and Vow of Poverty itself afterwards!

taltamir
2010-07-18, 06:11 AM
1. run away to your pocket dimension
2. use epic spells to get neigh infinite caster cohoerts
3. user the caster cohorts to get neigh infinite epic mitigation.
4. get neigh infinite boosts to EVERYTHING (from your AC, to all 6 ability scores, to SR, to DR, to immunity to every single printed spell, to persistent AMF, don't worry, your own epic spells can overcome it)
5. kill it

Fortuna
2010-07-18, 06:53 AM
1. run away to your pocket dimension
2. use epic spells to get neigh infinite caster cohoerts
3. user the caster cohorts to get neigh infinite epic mitigation.
4. get neigh infinite boosts to EVERYTHING (from your AC, to all 6 ability scores, to SR, to DR, to immunity to every single printed spell, to persistent AMF, don't worry, your own epic spells can overcome it)
5. kill it


Edit: Oh yeah, we're not into epics yet, though we're getting close really fast. And he was stingy with loots, for some reason, though the shops sold some rather broken stuff, which frequently get fried at higher levels

Not quite viable yet without cheese, more and more expensive cheese than I was suggesting.

Kylarra
2010-07-18, 09:26 AM
1. run away to your pocket dimension
2. use epic spells to get neigh infinite caster cohoerts
3. user the caster cohorts to get neigh infinite epic mitigation.
4. get neigh infinite boosts to EVERYTHING (from your AC, to all 6 ability scores, to SR, to DR, to immunity to every single printed spell, to persistent AMF, don't worry, your own epic spells can overcome it)
5. kill itThat's a lot of horses.


sorry, couldn't resist

Tyndmyr
2010-07-18, 09:32 AM
[QUOTE=fortesama;8945665 Morden's DJ at will (Su),[/QUOTE]

This is usually a sign that your DM is a jerk.

I reccomend starting with invisible solid fog, if available. If you have searing spell and orb of fire, this will solve the problem. Ignores the immunity, allowing you to target the still existing troll vulnerability with no save. It also ignores spell resistance, which spell immunity inherents from(see any golem entry for more info).

This doesn't solve his high touch AC, but true strike does.

Alternatively, an ubercharger might put him down.

The whole auto 20s thing is kinda a jerk ability, too.


Alternatively, force cage.

woodenbandman
2010-07-18, 11:08 AM
Counterspell his disjunction with a disjunction. Assuming it's not a Su ability, because if it is then it's time to give up right now.

EDIT: I see it's a Su ability.

Admit it, though: You had to have expected this when you brought StP erudite/Beholder mage to the table.

fortesama
2010-07-18, 08:17 PM
Now I think of it, you can skip the Shuffle. Just get the wizard True Creation, pick up a Greater Metamagic Rod of Delay and make sure you get everyone out beforehand (except the wizard, who greater teleports at the last second). If your DM won't let the Rod of Delay past, then use contingency instead.

And how do you propose I do that since i see it as a Domain spell so far, and there aren't any psions or power stones floating around with it so far. Hmmm... maybe a Reality Revision would fix that eventually?


Counterspell his disjunction with a disjunction. Assuming it's not a Su ability, because if it is then it's time to give up right now.

EDIT: I see it's a Su ability.

Admit it, though: You had to have expected this when you brought StP erudite/Beholder mage to the table.

True, true. That's why I'm asking for suggestions for the time when he finally sics this thing at us in the probably not so far future. Though when I noticed the thing didn't have an Ex Spell Aimed AMF on him or similar, I was wondering if he overlooked something.

As for Dark Chaos Shuffle, the DM is using what he calls an "EXP pool system" where all players use a single EXP bar to calculate levels. As we all have classes in between, it allows players who don't play often to play catch up. Unfortunately, it also means that exp crafting and spells with XP components draw from said pool, thus making those options less viable. But when the average XP gain is 1000 per session, they might be a bit more forgiving with the crafting. And maybe a maximum of 1 shuffle per session?

Btw, i'm nearly done with cerebremancer. Any suggestions on what to do next to get access to both epic spellcasting and manifesting once we get there? I'm thinking of going Mind Mage but I have a feeling there may be better options.