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Chronos Flame
2010-07-18, 02:04 AM
Okay so I have been running a campaign for a few months now. The setting is based around Final Fantasy and has been running fairly smoothly. Almost all the classes are my own. I recently sent my writeup for the dragoon PrC to somebody and realized when I offered to do so that none of my players were playing one and only a single NPC was using it. I was never entirely sure if it was any good but the NPC will be a somewhat big deal later and I'd like the class to be worth something. So I figured it wouldn't hurt to see what the playground thought...


DRAGOON

HD: d10

Requirements
Alignment Any non-chaotic
Base Attack Bonus: 5
Skills: Jump 8 ranks, Knowledge(Arcana) 4 ranks
Special: Must be inducted into the order of dragoons -OR- Must find and hatch a draconic wyvern and raise it to maturity. (The order will entrust you with an egg upon entrance)

Class Skills (4+Int modifier per level): The dragoonís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge(Arcana) (Int), Knowledge(Geography) (Int), Knowledge(History) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Tumble (Dex)

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A dragoon gains proficiency in the shortspear, spear, longspear, javelin, lance, glaive, guisarme, ranseur, and trident. Many of their class features require them to be wielding a polearm weapon.

Dragoon Leap: A dragoon has the ability to make superhuman jumps into the air. A dragoon does not need to make a running start for the jump and the DC for a high jump is the same as a long jump for a Dragoon. So if a dragoon rolls a 30 after modifiers on his jump check he would be able to leap 30 feet into the air. Jump heights are not restricted by character height.
A dragoon can make a dragoon leap as a full round action that deals extra damage based on the height at which he falls after a jump. At the start of a dragoon leap make a jump check to determine how high the dragoon jumps. If the dragoon does not clear 10 feet with his jump the attack has no effect even if the target is on lower ground. He then makes a single attack against the target at his greatest attack bonus and if successful rolls damage normally for his weapon, adding 1d6 damage per 10 feet he fell (to a maximum of 1d6 per class level). Any polearm weapon does double damage during a dragoon leap, much like a mounted charge with a lance (Note that it is not considered a mounted charge and does not multiply the additional dragoon leap damage). After a Dragoon Leap, the dragoon lands in an adjacent square. If the attack misses he lands in an adjacent square and takes normal falling damage as nonlethal damage. A dragoon can forfeit a multiple of 10 feet of height (and thus 1d6 damage) to move forward the same distance as part of the dragoon leap. So if a 7th level dragoon makes a dragoon leap and rolls a 50 he jumps upwards 50 feet and deals an extra 5d6 damage as part of his attack. He chooses to forfeit 20 feet of height and 2d6 points of damage to attack a target 20 feet away and then lands in a square adjacent to the target. Should the Dragoon opt not to take move forward in this way, he can only attack an adjacent foe. After a dragoon leap the dragoon loses his dexterity and dodge bonuses until the start of his next turn.
A dragoon may use a dragoon leap a number of times per day equal to his Dragoon level. However there is no penalty to the number of times a Dragoon can jump without a running start, treating vertical jumps as long jump DCs

Ignore Height: At 2nd level a dragoon takes falling damage as if the fall were 10 feet per dragoon level shorter than it actually is.

Mighty Jump: From 2nd level onwards a dragoon gains a bonus to all jump checks equal to his dragoon level. In addition a dragoon adds his Dex modifier to jump checks (he does not lose his Str modifier).

Dragoon Mobility: A dragoon of 3rd level or higher no longer applies his armor check penalty to his jump or tumble checks. This ability is active as long as he wears only light or medium armor. At 8th level a dragoon can wear heavy armor and still keep this benefit.

Dragon Slaying: A dragoon of at least 3rd level is especially skilled in battling dragons. At 3rd level a dragoon gains a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls, spot checks, and listen checks made against dragons and dragonblooded foes and to saving throws made to resist a dragonís breath weapons. They are also treated as if they have the evasion ability when affected by a dragonís (and only a dragonís) breath weapon. This ability improves to +2 at 5th level, +3 at 7th level, and +4 at 9th level.

Shielded Polearm: At 4th level a dragoon may wear a buckler at no penalty while wielding a polearm weapon.

Hunterís Courage: A dragoon of at least 4th level is immune to fear.
Quick Recovery: At 5th level on a dragoon is no longer denied his dexterity and dodge bonuses to his armor class after a dragoon leap.

Shockwave: At 6th level a dragoon can send out a destructive shockwave of force during a dragoon leap. He may choose to forfeit a multiple of 1d6 damage from his dragoon leap to effect all creatures within 5 feet per 1d6 sacrificed of the primary target. He may not sacrifice damage he would not be able to do normally. So if a 7th level dragoon fell 80 feet he couldnít sacrifice 1d6 to send out a shockwave to all creatures within 5 feet of the primary target doing 7d6 damage, he would instead do 6d6 damage because 7d6(the maximum for his level) minus the 1d6 sacrificed is 6d6. Anyone effected by the shockwave can make a reflex save (DC 10+his Dragoon level+his Con modifier) for half damage. The primary target is denied such a save.

Climb Skyward: When a 6th level dragoon rolls his jump check for a dragoon leap, he doubles the check to determine the height of his jump.

Swift Leap At 7th level a dragoon leap only requires a standard action to perform.

Sonic Dive: When a Dragoon reaches 10th level, he always emits a 5 foot shockwave with his dragoon leap. This ignores the initial 1d6 reduction in damage so a 5 foot shockwave does full damage, a 10 foot shockwave does 1d6 less, etc. This ability can be suppressed as a free action.



{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | Dragoon Leap, Draconic Wyvern Companion
2nd | +2 | +3 | +0 | +0 | Ignore Height, Mighty Jump
3rd | +3 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Dragoon Mobility, Dragon Slaying +1
4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Shielded Polearm, Hunter's Courage
5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Quick Recovery, Dragon Slaying +2
6th | +6 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Shockwave, Climb Skyward
7th | +7 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Dragon Slaying+3, Swift Leap
8th | +8 | +6 | +2 | +2 | Improved Dragoon Mobility
9th | +9 | +6 | +3 | +3 | Dragon Slaying +4
10th | +10 | +7 | +3 | +3 | Sonic Dive
[/table]

Now i think I might get unnecessarily wordy or overcomplicated in the descriptions, so any simpler way to say or do things is appreciated. And a couple of the feature names were borrowed from old homebrews I saw a good while back when I decided I wanted to make my own because the ones I'd seen weren't what i wanted. How does it look?

Chronos Flame
2010-07-18, 02:05 AM
Draconic Wyvern: A dragoon of first level receives a draconic wyvern (stats below)as a special type of animal companion. A draconic wyvern gains strength as the dragoon does as indicated by the table below. The wyvern comes with a random breath weapon decided by the roll of a d4. 1-15ft cone of cold, 2-30ft line of lightning, 3-15ft cone of cold, 4-30ft line of acid. The save DC for a draconic wyvern belonging to a dragoon is different from a normal draconic wyvernís in that is uses the dragoonís class level instead of Ĺ the draconic wyvernís HD. It still uses the draconic wyvernís Con modifier. (DC= 10 + Dragoonís class level + draconic wyvernís Con modifier)
If the dragoonís draconic wyvern should die he must make a DC15 Will saving throw or lose 200exp per level of dragoon. Success means the dragoon loses no experience. A draconic wyvern can be raised from the dead and does not suffer the loss of a level or con modifier if the happy event should occur. A dragoon does not need to wait a year and a day to gain another draconic wyvern if his should die, but he must find an egg himself and hatch it. An egg takes roughly a month to hatch and 3 months to grow old enough to actually serve as the dragoonís companion.

{table=head]Dragoon Level | Bonus HD | Natural Armor Adj. | Str, Dex, Int Adj. | Special
1st-4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | Empathetic Link, Improved Evasion, Share Saving Throws, Share Spells
5th-6th | +4 | +3 | +2 | Speak with dragoon
7th-8th | +6 | +5 | +3 | Blood Bond
9th-10th | +8 | +7 | +4 | Spell Resistance
[/table]


Empathic Link (Su)
The dragoon has an empathic link with his draconic wyvern out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The dragoon cannot see through the draconic wyvernís eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Because of the limited nature of the link, only general emotional content can be communicated.
Because of the empathic link between the draconic wyvern and the dragoon, the dragoon has the same connection to a place or an item that the draconic wyvern does.

Improved Evasion (Ex)
If the draconic wyvern is subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, it takes no damage on a successful saving throw and only half damage on a failed saving throw.

Share Saving Throws
For each of its saving throws, the draconic wyvern uses either its own base save bonus or the dragoonís, whichever is higher. The draconic wyvern applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesnít share any other bonuses on saves that the dragoon might have.

Share Spells
At the dragoonís option, he may have any spell he casts on himself also affect his draconic wyvern. The draconic wyvern must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the draconic wyvern if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the draconic wyvern again even if the draconic wyvern returns to the dragoon before the duration expires. Additionally, the dragoon may cast a spell with a target of ďYouĒ on his draconic wyvern (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. A dragoon and his draconic wyvern can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the draconic wyvernís type.

Speak with Dragoon (Ex)
If the dragoonís class level is 5th or higher, the dragoon and draconic wyvern can communicate verbally as if they were using a common language. Other creatures do not understand the communication without magical help.

Blood Bond (Ex)
If the dragoonís class level is 7th or higher, the draconic wyvern gains a +2 bonus on all attack rolls, checks, and saves if it witnesses the dragoon being threatened or harmed.
This bonus lasts as long as the threat is immediate and apparent.

Spell Resistance (Ex)
If the dragoonís class level is 9th or higher, the draconic wyvern gains spell resistance equal to the dragoonís level + 5. To affect the draconic wyvern with a spell, another spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the draconic wyvernís spell resistance.




Draconic Wyvern
Size/Type: Tiny Dragon

Hit Dice: 2d12+4 (17 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 15 ft. (3 squares), fly 60 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 18 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/-8
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d4-2) or claw +6 melee (1d3-2)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d4-2) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d3-2)
Space/Reach: 2Ĺ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon
Special Qualities: Blindsense 60 ft., darkvision 60 ft., immunity to sleep and paralysis, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +20, Listen +9, Search +6, Sense Motive +7, Spot +9
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse
Environment: Temperate forests, Mountains
Organization: Group(3-9), nest (10-200)
Challenge Rating:1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Any
Level Adjustment:+3

A draconic wyvern has a body about 1 foot long, with a 2-foot tail. It weighs about 7 pounds. It resembles a pseudodragon in many ways but lacks a stinger and is usually a deep shade of blue, sometimes with dark yellow markings. A draconic wyvern can speak draconic.

Draconic wyverns are usually found in groups of at least three unless found near their home nest where they can sometimes be found in the hundreds. The breath weapon of these creatures vary but the nest almost always share the same type.

Combat
A draconic wyvern can deliver a vicious bite, but relies usually on its breath weapon.

Breath Weapon (Ex)
A draconic wyvern has a breath weapon that varies by the nest it is from. One can have a breath weapon of any of the following: 15ft cone of fire, 30ft line of lightning, 15ft cone of cold, 30ft line of acid. It does damage equal to1d6/Ĺ the draconic wyvernís HD. Whatever the type of breath weapon it possesses, the targets can make a DC 13 reflex save for half damage. (DC= 10+Ĺ HD+Con modifier.) It can be used 3/day and a draconic wyvern must wait 1d4 rounds before using it again.




It is basically just a reflavored pseudodragon

DracoDei
2010-07-18, 11:22 AM
This isn't the first such class I have seen, did you happen to look at any of the others before doing this? The forum search doesn't always work (I think it doesn't look very far back, due to being nerfed to keep the server from not bogging down), so I suggest Google
site:www.giantitp.com "search string"


I did one myself, which is the only one I can remember that I felt did the traditional RPGs (as perhaps opposed to Tactics or MMORPGs) mechanic's justice. You need t specify WHICH sources this is supposed to match. The thing about leap attacks in the source(s) I used was never the damage (that averaged out the same), it was being absent from the board so you couldn't get hit by multi-target spells (which in D&D would include AoEs). You can find it HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143156) (Warning: I really went all-out on this one, so it is very long).

Morph Bark
2010-07-18, 12:11 PM
I think I will wait with a more in-depth commenting on the class abilities later, as you haven't put them all up yet. Dragoon Mobility reminded me I never included that on my Limit Dragoon (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19524510/The_Limit_Dragoon_PEACH) though... You covered the other things though: Jump bonus, bonus damage from falling height, running before a jump not needed, falling damage reduced... well done on that part!

Chronos Flame
2010-07-18, 04:41 PM
This isn't the first such class I have seen, did you happen to look at any of the others before doing this? The forum search doesn't always work (I think it doesn't look very far back, due to being nerfed to keep the server from not bogging down), so I suggest Google
site:www.giantitp.com "search string"


I did one myself, which is the only one I can remember that I felt did the traditional RPGs (as perhaps opposed to Tactics or MMORPGs) mechanic's justice. You need t specify WHICH sources this is supposed to match. The thing about leap attacks in the source(s) I used was never the damage (that averaged out the same), it was being absent from the board so you couldn't get hit by multi-target spells (which in D&D would include AoEs). You can find it HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143156) (Warning: I really went all-out on this one, so it is very long).

I made this actually months ago and I had looked at a lot of the dragoon classes online I could find. I was lazy and with as many classes as I was making from scratch I would have jumped at a premade one. The problem was, while some had things like shockwave none were what I wanted, so I ended up making this. That is why, while different than the others, some of the names might be the same. I honestly dont know.
The thing about leaving the map is a nice idea but it's not really what I wanted for this. I wanted a swift leap upwards and very quickly a fall back down. I think the dragoon might have a problem with being out for a round sometimes more than not.


I think I will wait with a more in-depth commenting on the class abilities later, as you haven't put them all up yet. Dragoon Mobility reminded me I never included that on my Limit Dragoon (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19524510/The_Limit_Dragoon_PEACH) though... You covered the other things though: Jump bonus, bonus damage from falling height, running before a jump not needed, falling damage reduced... well done on that part!

Thank you very much. However I'm not sure what you mean by not everything being there yet, they are all described. If you mean swift leap, that is describes shortly in dragoon leap. i will give it it's own entry now.

DracoDei
2010-07-19, 07:52 AM
I made this actually months ago and I had looked at a lot of the dragoon classes online I could find. I was lazy and with as many classes as I was making from scratch I would have jumped at a premade one. The problem was, while some had things like shockwave none were what I wanted, so I ended up making this. That is why, while different than the others, some of the names might be the same. I honestly dont know.
It is hard to tell since text leaves out a lot of the non-verbal cues, but this reads to me like you thought I was accusing you of plagiarism or something. I was merely suggesting that building on the work of others and not re-inventing the wheel were good things, and making sure you had done your research on "prior art", so that you wouldn't be wasting your (and everybody else's) time.

The thing about leaving the map is a nice idea but it's not really what I wanted for this. I wanted a swift leap upwards and very quickly a fall back down. I think the dragoon might have a problem with being out for a round sometimes more than not.
There is no "might" about it in my eyes. The character is going to end up in a situation where they end up at a disadvantage from time to time due to using that ability. But the same is true for a rogue who tumbles past the enemy lines to get into flanking position. It is the sort of risk that can make a class fun. One problem that I am not sure is really possible to solve in a good way is that the PLAYER might get a bit bored, even if the CHARACTER is feeling fine.

Milskidasith
2010-07-19, 08:56 AM
The problem is, without serious speed enhancements, you can easily wind up jumping so that you're in the air for three or four rounds before hitting, which isn't worth it for a 2x damage hit. I mean, I could get the same effect with Death from Above and the Battle Jump feat, and that can be done every round (if I have it readied).

Chronos Flame
2010-07-19, 04:41 PM
It is hard to tell since text leaves out a lot of the non-verbal cues, but this reads to me like you thought I was accusing you of plagiarism or something. I was merely suggesting that building on the work of others and not re-inventing the wheel were good things, and making sure you had done your research on "prior art", so that you wouldn't be wasting your (and everybody else's) time.

There is no "might" about it in my eyes. The character is going to end up in a situation where they end up at a disadvantage from time to time due to using that ability. But the same is true for a rogue who tumbles past the enemy lines to get into flanking position. It is the sort of risk that can make a class fun. One problem that I am not sure is really possible to solve in a good way is that the PLAYER might get a bit bored, even if the CHARACTER is feeling fine.

Oh no, I didn't think you were accusing me of anything. Sorry if it came off that way. And yeah, I know there is that disadvantage that would come up but the problem I have with staying in the air is the fact that it would take 2 rounds to do damage.



The problem is, without serious speed enhancements, you can easily wind up jumping so that you're in the air for three or four rounds before hitting, which isn't worth it for a 2x damage hit. I mean, I could get the same effect with Death from Above and the Battle Jump feat, and that can be done every round (if I have it readied).

Is there a limit to how much you can fall? Maybe I should write in that you leap up and then fall in a matter of one round? I assumed that was clear from "using a dragoon leap is a full round action" Note also that it's not just double damage, but 1d6/lvl.

Chronos Flame
2010-07-23, 11:21 PM
So I have been on vacation for a few days. Haven't had the internet. Anyone read much of the class?

dgnslyr
2010-07-24, 04:12 PM
The problem is, without serious speed enhancements, you can easily wind up jumping so that you're in the air for three or four rounds before hitting, which isn't worth it for a 2x damage hit. I mean, I could get the same effect with Death from Above and the Battle Jump feat, and that can be done every round (if I have it readied).

Incidentally, that's exactly what dragoons did in the FF games.

Fax Celestis
2010-07-24, 04:57 PM
Is there a limit to how much you can fall? Maybe I should write in that you leap up and then fall in a matter of one round? I assumed that was clear from "using a dragoon leap is a full round action" Note also that it's not just double damage, but 1d6/lvl.

You can jump up to your speed, afaik, and fall at 300'/round.

DracoDei
2010-07-24, 05:52 PM
Incidentally, that's exactly what dragoons did in the FF games.

The difference is, in FF that made them untouchable during that time, rather than sitting ducks to ranged attacks.

Chronos Flame
2010-07-25, 02:55 AM
You can jump up to your speed, afaik, and fall at 300'/round.

Well that would be fine. Remove the limit on jumping up (Which I thought I did, but I guess I only addressed the height issue) and leave the 300' per round. If for some reason you are falling more than three hundred feet it probably wasnt because you jumped that high.



The difference is, in FF that made them untouchable during that time, rather than sitting ducks to ranged attacks.

That is why I'd prefer it happen in one round in pretty much every case.

dgnslyr
2010-07-25, 05:57 PM
The difference is, in FF that made them untouchable during that time, rather than sitting ducks to ranged attacks.

Give the dragoon Improved Evasion and maybe a miss chance while airborne? I mean, trying to hit somebody falling from ten stories above you shouldn't be easy, right?

DracoDei
2010-07-25, 07:08 PM
See the "Float" level of leap attack for how I did it (well, or badly, you decide) that has any similarity to what you describe. At later levels I have them moving around between dimensions, which also neatly gets around the problem of low ceilings. Part of their capstone was that they were actually time-warping and thus completely impossible to target during that time.

DaragosKitsune
2010-08-04, 05:37 PM
Um, guys, this class could kill just about anything in one round at level 6. Find a decent sized cliff Jump ten feet into the air off of the cliff and, with a spear, you can deal (Altitude/10)x2d6 damage. Play an undead or construct character (eg. Necropolitan) and you don't suffer any consequences, hit or miss, because you are immune to non-lethal damage. Even jumping off of a 100 ft. tall cliff (which isn't hard to imagine), you'll deal 20d6 damage from just the Dragoon Leap as long as you use a polearm.

Edit: Mentioned using the wyvern before, then read the stat block. Whoops.

Kobold-Bard
2010-08-04, 05:56 PM
DK: And how many battles have you been in in a D&D game where the enemies where at the bottom of a cliff that you had the time to get to the top of?

That's beyond situational, that's ridiculous.

DaragosKitsune
2010-08-04, 06:14 PM
It doesn't have to be a cliff, it can be a tree or a building or a ship's mast. High areas are shockingly common. Not to mention that flying mounts are certainly within the price range of a level 6 character. This class would be very useful in the campaign I'm in right now, it's mostly wilderness and urban. Give me a place, I can find a jumping off point. Okay, maybe not the classic 10 foot high roof dungeon, but the basic idea applies. Even without the jump, you aren't useless. Although, there are limits on the total damage. I really need to read more carefully. Although, I do think that 1d6 per level sans spear is a tad too little.

Chronos Flame
2010-08-05, 01:23 AM
What if I substituted the nonlethal damage with a slowfall that comes into effect when you miss? also, why 2d6 per 10 feet? The class is limited to 1d6 per dragoon level.

Also, why is d6/level too little? it maxes out just like a sneak attack or eldrich blast would, only with the potential to do so 5 levels earlier if you enter the PrC at lvl5.




See the "Float" level of leap attack for how I did it (well, or badly, you decide) that has any similarity to what you describe. At later levels I have them moving around between dimensions, which also neatly gets around the problem of low ceilings. Part of their capstone was that they were actually time-warping and thus completely impossible to target during that time.
I want them to be limited in dungeons with low ceilings. I know it can be a serious nerf, but they are jumping into the air, not between dimensions. At least I don't want that to be the case.

DaragosKitsune
2010-08-05, 01:45 AM
My issue with the 1d6 per level really wasn't thought out. The non-lethal damage on a miss seems like a good idea to me, though. It makes a consequence for foolish behavior that is only lethal if you plan poorly. It doesn't make using the ability too risky to consider, but it has enough of an effect that the user would at least think things through. On question, when you use a polearm for Dragoon Leap, is it 2x the total damage, 2x the extra damage, or double the number of damage dice?

Chronos Flame
2010-08-05, 03:25 PM
My issue with the 1d6 per level really wasn't thought out. The non-lethal damage on a miss seems like a good idea to me, though. It makes a consequence for foolish behavior that is only lethal if you plan poorly. It doesn't make using the ability too risky to consider, but it has enough of an effect that the user would at least think things through. On question, when you use a polearm for Dragoon Leap, is it 2x the total damage, 2x the extra damage, or double the number of damage dice?

The extra damage I planned to be like critical damage or charging with a lance. Doubles base weapon damage and things like Str modifier. The alternative was making non-polearms do half the bonus damage, but I didn't know if limiting the weapon usefulness that much would be a good idea. Thoughts?