Goblins

[Kaje]

So... what's up with goblins in OOTS? Goblins are supposed to be small, with skin ranging from yellow to red. These goblins seem to be renamed half-orcs instead.

[Conuly]

Artistic license. I'm guessing Belkar-sized Goblins wouldn't be nearly so threatening.

[Dr.Epic]

So... what's up with goblins in OOTS? Goblins are supposed to be small, with skin ranging from yellow to red. These goblins seem to be renamed half-orcs instead.

This has been mentioned and pointed out before. To answer your question, how intimidating would Red Cloak be if he was Belkar's hieght?

[Bongos]

Half-orcs be a lighter shade of green. The Hobgoblins got the yellow skin.

[kpenguin]

Hobgobs are orange, not yellow.

[Bongos]

I meant the Kobolds are yellow.
Hobgoblins definitely orange.

[Morph Bark]

If Goblins are dark green (and Blues are, well, blue), Half-Orcs and Orcs are light green, Hobgoblins are orange and Kobolds are yellow... what does that leave us for red and purple?

[Draconi Redfir]

If Goblins are dark green (and Blues are, well, blue), Half-Orcs and Orcs are light green, Hobgoblins are orange and Kobolds are yellow... what does that leave us for red and purple?

bugbears and mites?

[hamishspence]

Bugbears appear in SoD as yellow with brown hair.

And this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html

shows noticably yellower goblins that may be bugbears.

The Dark One is purple. Though if Vril (goblins with bat ears, slaves of drow) appear, they could be a different shade of purple.

[Kish]

These goblins seem to be renamed half-orcs instead.
...Renamed half-orcs? Love to know what features the goblins in OotS share with by-the-book D&D half-orcs beyond size (which they also share with elves, half-elves, and humans).

[LuPuWei]

Weren't Tolkein's goblins essentially orcs?

[Shale]

"Goblin" in Tolkien's books is a word for a particularly small breed of orc.

[FrankNorman]

"Goblin" in Tolkien's books is a word for a particularly small breed of orc.

Actually, its more the word the Hobbits used for the Orcs that inhabited the Misty Mountains.
The Elves called them Orcs (Yrch for the plural in Grey-Elven)

Saruman's "Uruk-hai" are the half-Orcs. (Uruk is Black Speech for Orc, "-hai" denotes a plural in that language.)
Sauron's elite Morder-orcs (commonly called Uruks or Uruk-hai) looked more like he'd been crossing Orcs with apes.

But they all used proper grammar, even the stupid ones.

[hamishspence]

The book makes a distinction between half-orcs and Saruman's Uruk-hai- the Uruk hai are generally described as Orcs, but of greater stature- still somewhat squat in build. Half-orcs are described as Men that look like Orcs:

Page 589: LoTR:

"I saw the enemy go- endless lines of marching Orcs; and troops of them mounted on great wolves. And there were battalions of Men, too. Many of their carried torches, and in the flare I could see their faces. Most of them were ordinary men, rather tall and dark-haired, and grim but not particularly evil-looking. But there were some others that were horrible: man-high, but with goblin-faces, sallow, leering, squint-eyed. Do you know, they reminded my of that Southerner at Bree; only he was not so obviously orc-like as most of these were."
"I thought of him too," said Aragorn. "We had many of these half-orcs to deal with at Helm's Deep. It seems plain now that that Southerner was a spy of Saruman's; but whether he was working with the Riders, or for Saruman alone, I do not know. It is difficult with these evil folk to know when they are in league, and when they are cheating one another."

[Dr.Epic]

Actually, its more the word the Hobbits used for the Orcs that inhabited the Misty Mountains.
The Elves called them Orcs (Yrch for the plural in Grey-Elven)

Saruman's "Uruk-hai" are the half-Orcs. (Uruk is Black Speech for Orc, "-hai" denotes a plural in that language.)
Sauron's elite Morder-orcs (commonly called Uruks or Uruk-hai) looked more like he'd been crossing Orcs with apes.

But they all used proper grammar, even the stupid ones.

Orcs are elves Morgoth corrupted if my knowledge of Tolkien's Middle Earth is correct.

[hamishspence]

There is a lot of variance on the origin of Orcs- Tolkien never really made up his mind. Some sources (LoTR, the Silmarillion) hint, but don't say outright, that orcs are corrupted Elves, others (Unfinished Tales) that Orcs might be corrupted Men.

Morgoth's Ring mentions the many possible origins for orcs- and adds "minor corrupted Maiar" to the list of possibilities- for the most powerful orcs.

[Larkspur]

Although we have no evidence that any of the Tolkien orcs/goblins/yrch/whatever are green, so that's all kind of immaterial.

In Jirix's afterlife vision there seem to be yellow, hobgoblin-orange and a darker red-orange contingents among the Dark One's army.

[Skorj]

I've always thought it strange that Tolkien got the sizes of goblins and hobgoblins swapped (per folklore, the "hob-" prefix means a smaller vesrion that might sneak into your house, derived from "hearth" IIRC). D&D just ran with the Tolkien of course, so the whole "small goblins" thing was perpetuated.

I believe Tolkien wrtoe in his notes that he originally used "goblin" and "orc" interchangeably, because he wasn't paying that much attention when he was writing a children's story, but it bothered him when working on LOTR.

[Dr.Epic]

In Jirix's afterlife vision there seem to be yellow, hobgoblin-orange and a darker red-orange contingents among the Dark One's army.

Let's not forget the Dark One himself is purple.

edit: I think I recall somewhere someone saying the yellow ones where bugbears.

[hamishspence]

I think I recall somewhere someone saying the yellow ones where bugbears.

Yes- SoD is what suggests this:


Bugbears appear in SoD as yellow with brown hair.

[Nimrod's Son]

There's a lighter-than-usual-green goblin in the crowd in this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0701.html), so presumably inter-species breeding has an effect on colouration too.

[Morph Bark]

bugbears and mites?

Mites? :smallconfused:


The Dark One is purple. Though if Vril (goblins with bat ears, slaves of drow) appear, they could be a different shade of purple.

Vril are in the FR Underdark book, I presume?

[Mauve Shirt]

Artistic license. Rich does that a lot. Remember Celia is also inexplicably medium sized. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0617.html)

[Darcy]

Artistic license. I'm guessing Belkar-sized Goblins wouldn't be nearly so threatening.

One might find the standard-sized goblins to be, in fact, quite adorable. (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/Monster_gallery/103.jpg)

[hamishspence]

Vril are in the FR Underdark book, I presume?

Nope- Drow of the Underdark (generic world book)

They do need the free web enhancement to be used properly though- since not fully statted out.

[binyamin20]

If Goblins are dark green (and Blues are, well, blue), Half-Orcs and Orcs are light green, Hobgoblins are orange and Kobolds are yellow... what does that leave us for red and purple?

Mutants that can swing from building to building via spiderwebs?

[Draconi Redfir]

Mites? :smallconfused:

Mites. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-lists-and-details/-m/mite)mustmakepostlonger

[Darcy]

I remember seeing a blue bugbear once... it was weird.

[Draconi Redfir]

I remember seeing a blue bugbear once... it was weird.


yeah i think i did once too. and pepole think my red-fured bugbears are weird o.0

[LuPuWei]

Mites. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-lists-and-details/-m/mite)mustmakepostlonger

What might be considered a little Fey? A Goblin Mite.

[Saco de Carne]

"Size/Type: Small Humanoid (Goblinoid)
A goblin stands 3 to 3½ feet tall and weigh 40 to 45 pounds" " Its eyes are usually dull and glazed, varying in color from red to yellow. A goblin’s skin color ranges from yellow through any shade of orange to a deep red; usually all members of a single tribe are about the same color"
"Goblin characters possess the following racial traits.
-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma."

But I've seen lots of DMs describing goblins as "green" (older editions?).


"Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Hobgoblins are larger cousins of goblins. Hobgoblins’ hair color ranges from dark reddish-brown to dark gray. They have dark orange or red-orange skin"
"Hobgoblin characters possess the following racial traits.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution." ECL +1!!!

As compared to Belkar:

"Size/Type: Small Humanoid (Halfling)
Halflings stand about 3 feet tall and usually weigh between 30 and 35 pounds"

By the book, source: http://www.d20srd.org

[Darcy]

Green tends to be seen as the "default" goblinoid colour even if that's not the official line. I mean, this is the official WOTC picture:
http://wizards.com/dnd/images/Monster_gallery/103.jpg
NOT red or yellow! WTF WOTC?

[hamishspence]

That pic's from 4E- but it is much closer to green than to yellow.

[Marnath]

On the topic of OoTS goblins, i'm pretty sure i saw a pic of what redcloak would look like if he was belkar's size floating around in some user's signature. can't remember the poster's name though. Anyone know who i mean?

[Nimrod's Son]

On the topic of OoTS goblins, i'm pretty sure i saw a pic of what redcloak would look like if he was belkar's size floating around in some user's signature. can't remember the poster's name though. Anyone know who i mean?
HUMVEE Driver. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=28399)

[Hrairoo]

Actually, its more the word the Hobbits used for the Orcs that inhabited the Misty Mountains.
The Elves called them Orcs (Yrch for the plural in Grey-Elven)

Saruman's "Uruk-hai" are the half-Orcs. (Uruk is Black Speech for Orc, "-hai" denotes a plural in that language.)
Sauron's elite Morder-orcs (commonly called Uruks or Uruk-hai) looked more like he'd been crossing Orcs with apes.

But they all used proper grammar, even the stupid ones.

actually, -hai does not denote a plural as much as it denotes the orc race as a whole. uruk-hai basically means 'orc race' in black speech. and no, uruk-hai were not originally half-orcs, if you read the two towers closely, half-orcs and uruk-hai were separate races that saruman was breeding.

[Marnath]

actually, -hai does not denote a plural as much as it denotes the orc race as a whole. uruk-hai basically means 'orc race' in black speech. and no, uruk-hai were not originally half-orcs, if you read the two towers closely, half-orcs and uruk-hai were separate races that saruman was breeding.

It was my understanding that -hai refers to the specifically bred kind of orc that can move in daylight? Just like the trolls that assault the city are olog-hai, or day bred trolls.

[Larkspur]

No, Hrairoo is right: -hai is a collective plural. So normal trolls are presumably <troll>-hai, Numenorians are tark-hai, etc.

[Laeranu]

In comic #702 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html), the flag of Gobbotopia has 3 dots (green, orange and brown) and 1 dot above them (purple). The purple dot obviously represents the Dark One, the green dot for Goblins, and the orange for Hobgoblins. But what does the brown represent. I thought Bugbears but they aren't a type of goblin are they. And If they are what about the kobolts?

[Kish]

Bugbears are goblinoids.

Kobolds are reptilian and have nothing to do with goblins.

[Maxios]

The giant has said before it's easier to draw medium-sized creatures which is why all the goblins and Celia aren't the size of Belkar. Also in most media, goblins are normally portrayed to be green.
Perhaps Bugbears will later appear in the comic as well, maybe in the next strip showing Gobbotopia.

[Cizak]

The giant has said before it's easier to draw medium-sized creatures which is why all the goblins and Celia aren't the size of Belkar. Also in most media, goblins are normally portrayed to be green.
Perhaps Bugbears will later appear in the comic as well, maybe in the next strip showing Gobbotopia.

They have appeared. You can see one here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html) and one in SoD.

[137beth]

Yes, but only the crayon version. We have not seen a fully drawn bugbear yet.