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View Full Version : [3.5] Alternate Battlefield Controllers



balistafreak
2010-07-19, 02:55 AM
Batman Wizards are the classic example. Sorcerers and Bards can obviously do so as well, to a lesser extent. Divine Casters have a bit more trouble, but they still have some of the spells to go with it.

Barring Vancian casting, though, are there any other ways to go about it?

I know of the DFA alternating Entangling Exhalations and Slow Breath, perhaps flicking wands and whipping scrolls of said Vancian spells while he's at it and using Chilling Fog at higher levels...

... as well as the spiked chain/Thicket of Blades/Enlarge Person/Standstill? combo, where you stand around and make like a wall. (Standstill optional because often you're better off simply killing them where they stand or tripping them.) Thicket of Blades only becomes available at a higher level, though.

Warlock with Chilling Tentacles is also good, and perhaps the most powerful part of the class, although again it only comes at a higher level.

Branching off of Thicket of Blades, Tome of Battle has some additional options, although I'm hard pressed to think of any as wide-reaching as the Thicket of Blades. (On an unrelated note, I just realized that both share the acronym ToB. Heh.)

I've realized that I love tactical play; none of this "I hit him with my sword" or "I trip him (again)" repetetiton. Tumbling around the battlefield to seek out better angles of attack, finagling with AoEs, whipping around obstacles to seek and deny total cover, readying actions, using consumables; all of these things combined make me smile.

(Yes, I know this sounds like 4th edition, but I'm NOT a fan of the homogeneity that it turned the classes into.)

Are there any other battlefield controllers out there that I might be interested in playing?

Eldariel
2010-07-19, 03:48 AM
Setting Sun as a whole, really. All the throws work great. And Summoners of all kinds (Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Whatever) works.

Cahokia
2010-07-19, 04:05 AM
Psions. Psychic Warriors are good at the tactical "melee" controller (I put melee in quotes because really you've got a range somewhere between 15-35 feet). I say Ardents, but I could be wrong as I don't really know the class. Erudites, but they're more broken than Wizards (because they can be Wizard+).

Artificers and Archivists (because they can pretend to be Wizards).

Binders can be, because they're a jack of all trades, but more in the Bard way than the Wizard way.

Druids.

Also, as a sort of a tangent: yeah, tactics is a part of 4th edition. The operative word being a part--just because it's tactical doesn't mean it MUST be 4th edition (if that were so, Splinter Cell and Chess would both be 4th edition and I'm fairly certain neither are). Apples and oranges are both fruit, but just because it's fruit doesn't mean it's an apple.

I'm sounding argumentative, but I know you probably agree with me, I'm just trying to say I catch your drift and I apologize the way it comes off.

The reason I don't really like 4th edition?
I don't care for the aesthetic, and I prefer 3.5's. I could go on with specific reasons why I don't, but they've all already been said by people who have put them in better ways, so I don't particularly feel the need to, and really, the way I said it before pretty much encompasses it. It's just not my cup of tea. Neither is salmon.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-07-19, 04:49 AM
Salmon Tea would be rather odd.

As far as battlefield control goes, it really depends on the composition of your party. I played in a campaign once, which consisted of myself, my brother, and a DMPC. My brother was playing a rogue, and the DMPC was another sneak attacker (might have been ninja, might have been rogue, but I cannot recall). I therefore decided it'd be good to play a scythe-wielding-whirling-frenzy-barbarian-tripper. I worked to place myself in flanking position, so that the sneak attackers would be able to sneak attack, trip foes to hold them in place (either so the beat downs could commence or so the backstabbers didn't themselves get backstabbed), and generally muck up whatever the enemy was doing by landing them on their backsides and scything away. And the best part was, it worked beautifully. So really, battlefield control is as much a mindset as it is a party role.

AslanCross
2010-07-19, 05:16 AM
I know a Knight/Crusader would still use a reach weapon, but Knight gives a few more tricks to help and White Raven has other tactical maneuvers (Order Forged From Chaos, for example) that work really well for helping your allies and not only slowing down your enemies. It has a lot of AOOing.

There's also the Robilar's Gambit builds like Jack Be Quick. Tripping with High Sword Low Axe + AOO machine. No need for reach.

Amphetryon
2010-07-19, 05:28 AM
Dread Necromancers make fine BCers, as variant summoners who have some DR themselves and can take Feats to automatically buff all their zombie hordes.

A Warlock with the right Invocations can fill this role.

Person_Man
2010-07-19, 08:47 AM
My melee combo guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127026) covers most of them.

I would also add:

Incarnate: Necrocarnum Circlet soulmeld gives you a continuous supply of necrocarnum zombies which you can summon as a Full Round Action at will (though you can only have 1 at a time). Heart of Fire and Mantle of Flame give you retributive damage. Mauling Gauntlets boosts Str checks.
Totemist: Probably the best Grappler in the game.
Binder: Has access to numerous Save or Lose/Suck effects. Also has various breath weapons, which a nice DM will let you augment with metabreath feats. Ronove vestige lets you use Mage Hand with a Str equal to your Binder level as a Swift Action, and you can keep it going continuously once started. So buy a very wide and very thin sheet of mithral or whatever, and move it around the battlefield at will to block line of sight and frustrate enemies. Desharis vestige offers unlimited Animate Objects once every five rounds. But the real winner is the Zceryll (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718) vestige, which offers the Psuedonatural template (SR, DR, ER), and unlimited Summon Monster once every five rounds - and everything you summon gets the Psuedonatural template as well.
Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109429): Test of Mettle, Bulwark of Defense, Vigilant Defender, and Daunting Challenge.

gorfnab
2010-07-19, 09:22 AM
Beguilers can make decent battlefield controllers, especially Gnome Beguilers with levels in Shadowcraft Mage.

balistafreak
2010-07-19, 03:23 PM
Alright, after some thought, I'm considering playing a "Martial Bard" archetype. It mixes party buffing with 3/4 BAB and minor spellcasting (aimed towards Battlefield Control) on the side.

If at all possible trading away the classic fascinate/suggestion would be great, as I've never been one to appreciate dominating someone with magic when I could do so "honestly". Chances are higher they won't betray you when hit with a dispel magic.

With around six levels to throw around, how would one construct such a character? Dragonfire Inspiration and Snowflake Wardance come to mind; Words of Creation as well. Are there any other Bard tricks I'm missing?

Keld Denar
2010-07-19, 03:32 PM
Doomspeak comes to mind if you are non-good. Nothing says control like a -10 on saves followed by an ally with a big save vs funk spell. Its not control directly, but it synergizes with save based control in a rediculous fasion. Can't be combined with Words of Creation though, due to alignment conflicts.

Google Bard Handbook for a complete rundown of ACFs. There are some good ones and some bad ones. I don't remember if there is one for facinate off the top of my head or not.

If you don't mind the loss of Words of Creation, I'm partial to Bard5/Mindblender1 with Mindsight. You'll know Glitterdust, which makes nearly all invisible encounters nearly trivial. IMO, its not as overpowered as some people make it out to be, but it is still stunningly useful for general scouting and neutering invisible foes.

Zaq
2010-07-19, 10:22 PM
I'm currently making a Spirit Shaman specifically focused on battlefield control. The Druid spell list has a ton of good battlefield control if you look a little bit, and this way you can do that without, you know, being a Druid. They're at least half an order of magnitude less broken. Still 9th level casters, of course.

The character this is replacing is, indeed, a control-focused DFA (yes, control is my favorite role to play... but I also kind of have to, since the only other party member I TRUST to do so doesn't really feel like it). Entangling Breath, Slow Breath, Exhaled Barrier, Chilling Fog... yeah, it's good stuff. Keep some dispels handy for if your GM trots out Freedom of Movement.